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7:06 PM
OMG Success!
I've created a GUI that shows a button that once it's clicked it changes its label to "Clicked!"
This is GREAT SUCCESS
 
@Shoe congratulations.
 
I feel so alive right now
 
use Qt
 
Qt = 10 times easier once you have it setup
and should have a nice data grid widget
 
Qt = G A R B A G E
 
7:09 PM
Nooo, my feelings
 
@набиячлэвэли I pretty much like Qt.
Mostly because I never took the time to test other GUI frameworks.
 
I've used fltk professionally. That was a very aesthetically painful library to use, so much so that we implemented our own view window in open gl. aesthetically painful in both it's widgets and the code it generates. Qt is much cleaner, and easier, however it's a billion times more heavy weight. It's each to their own really, use what your comfortable using.
 
Can confirm, I evaluated FLTK for a few hours. Having no functionality was a big turn off.
 
7:32 PM
@Mikhail the one redeeming quality about FLTK it is how light it truly is. On data acquisition systems the more drive space you can allow for data acquisition the happier your customers will be with your product. So using a light weight library for your gui work makes sense in that space.
 
tbh despite FLTK being quite bad at being a C++ API, it was quite nice to use, precisely due to being so primitive it's simple
sure, it does lack in functionality, so I wouldn't consider it for larger applications
 
lol we used it for a larger application lol
 
well, I'm not sure what C++ API would I use for a larger app
gtkmm maybe
 
it's not that it's not a capable api. It's just about 15 years behind times, and the code it generates will make you stare at it for a few minutes before you can visually parse the darn stuff to make manual edits , such as adding your own custom widgets to it
 
oh I didn't use the generators
 
user1804599
7:38 PM
@sehe "Neerlandici hebben met verslagenheid gereageerd op het nieuws van de recentelijk overleden tijd. De tempus kwam om het leven door een ongelukkige naamval van de overtreffende trap."
 
IIRC Qt was fairly behind wrt C++11 features
For example it used to not be able to support lambdas
Moreover I have yet to understand the need for QString and QVector which makes me question the sanity of the author
 
when i say 15 years behind times i mean visually.
Qt , like many of the frameworks out there, were created before there was a c++ 98 standard
there was no std::string at the time
but there was a QString
 
Not to mention camel casing classes is a huge LOL
 
CamelCase is fine
have fun with name clashes otherwise
 
what are namespaces
 
7:41 PM
TheItsPerfectlyOkToCamelCaseClass ... there you go
 
@Shoe what are member variables
 
yea, namespaces didn't exist back then either
 
> camel casing classes
 
Logger logger;
 
mynamespace::logger logger;
 
7:42 PM
i prefer Logger myLogger; or the sort
 
semantically wrong
also redundant
 
What's semantically wrong?
 
(especially if I'm inside the same namespace)
@Shoe using fully qualified name
 
Oh dear
 
Xeo
@milleniumbug logger logger; :P
 
7:43 PM
You are one of those "let's write the least amount of characters possible" dudes
 
now don't you dare declaring another logger
@Shoe No I'm one of those "not-similar things shouldn't look similar"
especially when the langauge makes it as hard as possible to do
 
@milleniumbug Apply that to our example please
 
I just did
 
munches on popcorn
 
No, you just said "not-similar things shouldn't look similar". What similar things are looking similar in the example?
 
7:46 PM
types and variables
 
Are you kidding me right now?
5 mins ago, by milleniumbug
Logger logger;
4 mins ago, by Shoe
mynamespace::logger logger;
Which one has more similarities between types and variables?
 
good luck declaring it inside the same namespace
 
it's exactly the same syntax IIRC
maybe you prepend "::" but I don't think it's necessary
 
also class A { int id_; public: int id() const { return id_; } A(int id) { this->id_ = id; } }; // fuck my life
 
What's your point on that line?
It's not even the same thing we are talking about right now
 
7:49 PM
have fun disambiguating clashes if the entities you're clashing with are types, member functions, member function
 
Are you fuck-my-lifeying because you had to append "_" at the end of that variable?
 
Wow
If it makes you feel any better you can name your private member variables the way you want
 
if I'm forced to use retarded workarounds anyway what's the point
 
I'm talking about interface
 
7:51 PM
@milleniumbug C'mon, you don't need this-> :p
 
have fun recompiling headers
 
only if he's not working off a spec sheet written by a sadist
 
why would I be recompiling anything?
Choose any sort of convention for non-public interfaces and stick with it
 
because private variables aren't part of the interface probably so you can name them whatever you want
IOW don't change the name ever once you release your headers
 
no, you said that
I never brought up changes
 
7:53 PM
also have fun declaring mynamespace::logger inside mynamespace
or declaring your_class::whatever whatever; inside your_class
 
namespace mynamespace { class logger { ... }; }?
 
namespace mynamespace { class logger { ... }; logger logger; }
(since this is contrived, replace this mentally with classes with nested types)
 
@milleniumbug :/?
 
this is so beyond retarded I don't even
6 mins ago, by milleniumbug
if I'm forced to use retarded workarounds anyway what's the point
 
Then don't
What workarounds? I'm confused
 
7:57 PM
@Shoe which is why I use CamelCase
@Shoe struct logger { using type = whatever; }; // laffo
 
@milleniumbug How so?
Isn't that a nested type?
 
hmm
I'd guess this is so rare that it doesn't matter anyway
My main point is that the standard library and boost libraries (which are arguably the most popular libraries out there) set up the standard that snake_case should be used
Using your own convention for whatever reason is the equivalent of using snake_case in Haskell. It just makes very little sense.
 
no one cares (especially when your standard library is 15 years newer than the language)
it also has strcpy
 
Especially if you need to distribute your interfaces as a library
 
Ven
8:02 PM
@Shoe I'm interested in the result (actually am)
 
I use snake_case everywhere because I mostly write libraries that somewhat have interfaces similar to the standard library.
 
@Ven It requires way too much patience and doesn't occupy enough time
 
Ven
@Shoe I'm open to suggestions
 
For alternative hobbies or...?
 
Ven
@johnathon that's an absolutely uninteresting fact to rant about. There are more people who know algebra than how to repair a car engine. Does that mean that's also esoteric? nope
@Shoe ah no, I'm looking for a career change!
duh. I had 3 lounge tabs open
 
8:04 PM
Oh, I wasn't considering a career change. I was merely mentioning programming as a hobby.
@Ven Are you tired of programming?
@milleniumbug Apparently I care.
I don't know why you are so aggressive though
 
Ven
@Shoe I'm not tired, I'm burned out.
It's the second time already.
 
@Ven that's a very old statement. Most people who know how to repair a car engine also know algebra. It's one of those things that's rather required to repair one professionally, and excluding third world countries is thought to every student that graduates compulsory school, what is not compulsory is programming, but it should be.
 
Ven
@johnathon the fact that people know both is causality, not causation
 
@Ven In how many years?
 
Ven
Basically, you have no arguments except "I want to look cool"
@Shoe first time was after a 8 months internship. This time, after a year of co-op (1 day at school)
 
8:08 PM
"after a year of co-op (1 day at school)" -- I have no idea what you mean
 
@Shoe well I suggest stopping
it's C++
 
No, it's the principle of least surprise really
 
Ven
@Shoe co-op = 4 days at work, 1 at school
Cooperative education (or co-operative education) is a structured method of combining classroom-based education with practical work experience. A cooperative education experience, commonly known as a "co-op", provides academic credit for structured job experience. Cooperative education is taking on new importance in helping young people to make the school-to-work transition. Cooperative learning falls under the umbrella of work-integrated learning (alongside internships, service learning and clinical placements) but is distinct as it alternates a school term with a work term in a structured manner...
 
@Ven Oh, never heard of that
Interesting
 
@ven move past causality and causation, focus on realism, and understand that we are moving towards a world wide vacuum of IT talent. In the next 20 years we will likely see a 1000% increase in the demand for application developers, with no education backing to go along with it, at least not everywhere in every country, there's isolated steps taken to address the issue , but there needs to be more done
 
8:10 PM
@Ven One year? I've never worked that long x)
 
Ven
@Morwenn wellll
> move past causality and causation, focus on realism
most past learning how to argue :P
 
@Ven Does that work with suicide bombers?
 
@Ven What is the most unsatisfying aspect of programming for you?
 
Ven
@Mysticial Education has been planted?
@Shoe Boilerplate. Having to write DI component wrappers
 
I see
 
Ven
8:12 PM
everything that's not architectural, abstract, or business code
 
^ that
 
Ven
but I'm mostly blaming C++ for the way it works. Somewhat. That's why I'll be trying a Scala job soon(™)
 
You could become the next Scott Meyers
or simply become a consultant
 
Ven
I could. Teaching is something I really wish I could do (and I did small gigs at my school already)
 
Yeah teaching really fits your situation
 
8:14 PM
I'm imagining some guy's resume:
September 2001 - July 2016 - Suicide Bomber at Al-Qaeda
Successfully conducted 17 suicide bombings and killed a total of 5000 people.
Voted most feared terrorist in the world.
 
You know what they say: "He who can, does; he who cannot, teaches."
 
lmao
 
Ven
@Mysticial Seen on QaidaTV!
 
I'm joking
Sorry
 
Ven
@Shoe it's okay, I've never thought I was good anyway :P
@Shoe however: "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
 
8:15 PM
After all, who is?
 
Define good :p
 
Ven
Cat is good at ranting
 
Being good at ranting in this industry basically means nothing
Everybody rants about something
 
Ven
I'm just being light-headed :)
 
@Mysticial Managed to commit suicide 17 times? Now that is rather scary!
 
Ven
8:18 PM
I'm still a bit shaky from those starcraft games
@JerryCoffin that's co-op suicide for you ;-)
 
@JerryCoffin managed to convince someone else to do it , if only they were sane in the first place right?
 
@JerryCoffin Yeah. Getting past 1 is hard enough. Getting past 9 is even harder. But 17 is impressive.
 
lol
something about 'SILENCE , I KILL YOU!' ...... and that particular scenario
 
@JerryCoffin More like they couldn't do the job porperly. That's lame :o
 
Ven
@Morwenn hehe
9
 
8:21 PM
@Ven Oh yeah, I remember that one xD
I finally put the track from the other on SoundCloud. Guess I'll put the contemporary music one over there another day.
Too bad it sounds better on my smarthphone than on an actual sound system :/
 
Ven
that happens often for me as well
 
That's because I only had my laptop's speakers when I composed it.
 
8:47 PM
@Mysticial no
B# was C
F# is E𝄪
 
i think you mean E# is F ...
 
@rightfold Half points for well composed
@johnathon Maybe you could leave well enough alone. Next time, best assume I meant what I said.
 
lol
 
You could also just ask "What does the funny symbol mean". To which, by now, the answer will be: Google knows.
 
I hope your having a good day sehe
 
Ven
8:58 PM
it's Bescherelle day.
oh ; wait.
 
:)
 
@sehe F# is G♭
 
That too. In most jurisdictions :) Hi, long time no seen
 
Hi, I am lurking here from time to time
Did you move to new Vim 8?
 
I don't enjoy programming in C♮ too
@EvgenyPanasyuk Not yet. I hear it dropped support for 16 bit windows
 
9:03 PM
@sehe yep, dropped some support, but added async stuff, like NeoVim had.
 
"had"?
 
Had before Vim. It still has it of course.
 
I'll move over once the unavoidable plugins exploit the new functionality
 
Ell
@fredoverflow does your c compiler support opening files yet?
 
Tried neovim too, but no compelling advantage since I prefer tmuxing (with TBone)
 
9:05 PM
I also heard about possible builtin terminal into Vim: reddit
 
@Morwenn I once got a guy kind of angry with me, until I explained what I thought was funny. He was a black guy who't played football in college, and during some game some bigoted asshole had made a racial slur, but he didn't feel insulted (at the time) because he didn't understand it. I found the idea of trying to be an asshole but failing to be utterly hilarious.
 
@JerryCoffin that's a flaw that i wish a lot of people had.
 
Hello @JerryCoffin :)
How's life?
 
@sehe I saw several videos on youtube showing Vim+Tmux workflow - it looks like disintegrated. Emacs has builtin shells and terminal - it is more convenient than external one, IMO. Vim could also benefit from terminal integration (like NeoVim already does).
 
@TonyTheLion Life is good. Death is peaceful. Only the transition causes problems. How are you lately?
 
9:08 PM
:D
 
@EvgenyPanasyuk I found input to be wonky in the integrated shells. I don't like wonky abstractions.
I'm used to tmuxing and it works great. :shrug:
 
@JerryCoffin I'm good. I cannot complain lately
 
What happened? (funny use of this phrase)
 
Changed some things in my life
 
@TonyTheLion So to what degree is brexit likely to affect you?
(Or shouldn't I ask?)
 
9:11 PM
He basically brags it
(bad pun alert)
 
@JerryCoffin To be fair I don't know, but I guess the worst that can happen is they kick me out. (I highly doubt this will happen). There has been talk about giving existing EU residents automatic right to stay, so I'm assuming that is what will happen. The current effect is the pound having fallen, which means buying pounds is cheaper.
 
what nationality are you tony?
 
Belgian
 
Ven
Tony is from Lionland
 
and your living in the UK ?
 
9:13 PM
@sehe For instance there are several options in Emacs - one is heavy full terminal, with need to switch between keyboard modes "within Terminal"/"in Emacs". Second one is basically shell like teleprinter - you can scroll up, etc, but it does not support heavy ncurses-like TUI.
 
@johnathon yes
 
@EvgenyPanasyuk the latter is how I remember neovim's
 
@TonyTheLion I'd assumed you were paid in pounds, but if you're paid in Euros, yeah, I guess you effectively just got a (fairly substantial) pay raise.
 
@sehe The big win for integration of terminal is clipboard support, support for macros, snippets, etc. Also you don't have to switch between two different window managers (Vim / Tmux).
 
Well. It doesn't help that I find Vim's window manager even more awkward than Tmux/screen/...
 
9:25 PM
@sehe Obviously the best name: B♮ (or maybe C♮ for a graphics language).
 
Thinking of how to explain it
C♮, I get
 
@JerryCoffin or universally understood api ...perhaps
 
These guys are trying to resurrect Xerox Alto machine (which had early GUI innovation), showing hardware debugging process, memory sniffing, old disk drives etc:
 
Cool hobby
 
9:35 PM
something about that though, makes me think it's illegal.
Microsoft bought the rights to that a long time ago. I don't know for certain but it wouldn't be something I'd see them just relinquishing voluntarily.
 
9:47 PM
And there I thought C++ syntax was sometimes hard to read. Try these comments: purecpp.org :-D
 
@MartinBa Just by shape it looks like over-commenting. Some folks comment every line of code with obvious and useless statements, which is annoying.
 
@sehe You are married, right?
 
Right
 
I imagine your spouse doesn't do programming, is that right?
 
Right. Well not in the narrow sense
 
9:52 PM
What do you guys have in common? Interests-wise?
 
Mmm. Kids :) Music is what brought us together I suppose
 
@MartinBa it's just Japanese. I'm sure there are Japanese people that think your language and comments are weird as well.
 
@sehe You met at some concert? Do you still share the same music taste?
 
So deep questions being asked
 
She sang in a choir where I became conductor :) One fateful day, a walk on a beach, ...
Why am I being interviewed? Are you in love?
 
9:57 PM
@johnathon There are some languages with Russian keywords, var/func names, comments - I understand them but they look awkward. I guess native English speakers feel something similar when they read regular code with "for"/abbrevs/etc.
 
@Evgeny no. When i write code i write my comments, variable names, and functions in English.
@EvgenyPanasyuk its only if i get a hold of code written by a non English speaker does confusion potentially ensue. All depends on if I'm familiar with their language or not... or.. how good of a job google translate does on their text.
wait.. two diff id's?
 
@sehe It appears so, yes.
 
no.
 
:) It was rather obvious. I assume it's been going on for a bit and you feel you need to decide on commitment, apparently? (First thing to ask: do you? Have you asked person in question?)
 
@sehe I'm fairly decided on commitment and we have discussed this already. I'm just questioning why it I'm so attracted to someone who shares little to no interests with me.
She likes to travel, I don't care. She likes metal, I like everything but metal. I like to eat everything, she doesn't eat vegetables and fruits. I like to drink, she doesn't at all.
 
10:06 PM
Well, if it is of any consolation, I don't think we share much interests. There's just an understanding. The understanding might actually include that we love being free to do our own stuff. But we know we share values so we can run a life together
 
@johnathon Perhaps this is just question of habit. I mean, I see code in Russian very rarely - perhaps that's why it feels awkward. For example, when I do not use spaces for a long time like for(int i=0;i!=n;++i) - it does not look weird, but if I am using code with spaces for(int i = 0; i != n; ++i) and then look into code without - then it is annoying.
 
@sehe That's the kind of answer I was looking for. :)
 
@Shoe Those are differences we certainly don't have. My wife likes social happenings, and I don't really. That's the worst of it. We're both probably equally homely (averse to traveling) and don't drink etc.
I'm sorry. That was likely not what you were looking for.
 
No, I know it's very weird
 
@EvgenyPanasyuk Its what you get accustom to and perhaps the reason style guides were invented?
 
10:08 PM
So, it's about knowing what is important to you. I guess for me the most important thing is about financial attitude(s) and thoughts about child rearing
 
@johnathon Yes, exactly.
 
We did certainly have a few good talks about those before we settled down, however quick we did settle down
 
I like to think that we pull each other towards the best for each other. Like, she unintentionally makes me drink less, and I make her smoke less. She pushes me to travel and I push her to eat more healthy in the long run.
 
That reminds me of a wise lesson I forgot. That sounds like it is worth a lot indeed
 
I think that I like her so much because it's so different to what I'm used to
We do share the fact that we are both introvert, shy and lazy though.
@sehe How did that talk go? Like what did you decide there?
 
10:15 PM
Oh. Nothing was decided. Just a slightly awkward talk about kids. Easy starter is "how not to raise them" or "how to preempt the trouble" :)
It was enough to know that there was common ground
I'm not much of a talker. So. This is quite a feat.
 
What do you guys talk about when you go out on your own?
 
We ... don't :/
 
And that's not an issue?
 
I dunno. Rarely.
 
Wait, you don't talk or you don't go out on your own?
 
10:18 PM
Not as far as I can tell. Maybe I should add the arbitrary disclaimer that we're not everyone. But the same goes for you.
@Shoe Erm... Maybe we can find somewhere else :)
 
I'm confused
You mean we can find somewhere else to talk (me & you) or that you two find each other somewhere else or...?
 
Pinged you on discord
 
Ok
 
user1804599
Hi
 
@Shoe It matters only on the earliest stages, like first dates. After these stages you will find out whenever you do fit together by characters - and after this it does not really matter on what topics you are talking or not talking at all.
 
user1804599
10:22 PM
@Shoe Coproducts of free monads.
 
@rightfold I figured :P
 
@TannerSansbury Have a look when you have time. codereview.stackexchange.com/questions/143638/…
 
10:38 PM
it appears that it certainly can be.
 
@sehe Wasn't aware there was a separate room for that, sorry.
 
10:54 PM
in C++ Questions and Answers, 2 mins ago, by dead beef
brb switching to a liberal arts major
That was funny
@rightfold That's what we call it in front of the kids, yes
 
eyebrow wiggle
 
It's actually a fun game. To make "unwarranted" jokes in coded language. Daughter is a little too bright, so she catches on. And sometimes we cater to it, just so she can join in on some lighthearted fun :)
 
It's really hilarious to see the gears turning and then the little mischievous smile of understanding
 
I can imagine
 
10:57 PM
I'm not great at cracking jokes, but I love playing the subtle ones. A.k.a.
 
My parents never did that around me that I noticed, but I'm really terrible at euphemisms
 
1am, bedtime. Night all
 
night
 
night
 
11:11 PM
@jaggedSpire but why
 
@Borgleader for the glory of satan of course!
 
119 replies in a FB thread about wage gap, STEM etc., almost half of them mine! :)
 
but why would you go on facebook
it's to stave off the creeping existential dread isn't it
 
Facebook is bad and you should feel bad
 
11:38 PM
@wilx what was your comments about STEM ?
 

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