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11:00 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Why does Nonius use <> includes instead of "" includes in its own headers? I was trying to get it included without great pains (...coming from flags in makefiles, YCM config and config of another vim plugin that needs to know your include paths to do what it does), and I tried to just clone it, add a convenient symlink to its include/, and just use that, but it fails due to the way Nonius itself includes its own files :/
 
what are the includes like? #include <nonius/stuff> ?
yeah. what's the problem with that? you add path/to/nonius/include to your include path
 
Exactly - only I have three places where I'd need to add that atm :/
 
and how does it get simpler if you use a different path?
 
If I can just include a file... It just works?
 
but you still need to specify the include path in 3 places, no?
this library/include/library pattern allows you to install all libraries into one place, i.e. boost and nonius next to each other, and you only need one include path
 
11:10 PM
I don't need -I if the includes are relative.
Those tools understand #include.
But they don't automatically understand the additional locations for that include.
 
also <3
 
@Borgleader oh wow
 
@Griwes do they understand /usr/include?
 
Ahahah, voice actors in games bitching that $100k is not enough for 15 months of sporadic yapping into a microphone.
 
on the other hand the games make like a billion dollars.
 
11:15 PM
@ElimGarak what. I don't even remember the last time I was impressed with game voice acting...
 
@melak47 of course, but that's not the point. My ideal usage is git submodule + a convenient symlink + relative include. I don't want to have to install nonius for this.
 
That amounts to 6.7k a month for basically sitting and talking into a microphone. If you want more money and your work can be done by a hell of a lot of people willing to do it for far less, you're going to have a bad time. Especially as some programmers have half that salary and work twice as hard.
 
Voice acting is still acting
It's not a trivial "anyone can do it" crap
 
It's not, but there is quite a bit of talented VO artists who'd do it for far less.
 
Anyone can do it!
 
11:18 PM
There's a reason you tend to see the same names over and over again
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva And that's how we end up with the annoying kids
 
I haven't packed anything
 
@CatPlusPlus It's called "let's go with this guy who did good last time because risk with FNGs".
 
@ElimGarak Dumb argument that can be applied to literally everything
 
@Griwes relative includes are crappy though
 
11:19 PM
@CatPlusPlus It's not dumb, it pretty much applies to everything.
 
who wants to write #include "../../../stuff.hpp"
 
@Griwes are you distributing Lounge propaganda yet
 
If there's someone just as good who is willing to do your job for less, you're going to have a bad time. Especially if you become difficult to deal with.
 
And that's why you should never ask for any raise yes
 
It's not just a raise, these guys want royalties actual programmers don't get.
 
11:21 PM
So you're just jealous :v
 
Currently, no reason to be jealous. But very much against it.
 
@melak47 I'm guilty of doing that a lot.
 
If @WilWheaton gets royalties on a game before myself or any of the others who spent years (not weeks) working on it, the system is broken.
 
> The same effects occur when we believe we're living in an unsafe situation even if we're not. The psychological term for this is hypervigilance. Hypervigilance in the face of imagined danger causes stress and anxiety. This, in turn, alters how your hippocampus functions, and causes an excess of cortisol in your body. Now cortisol is great in small and infrequent doses, and helps you run away from tigers. But it destroys your brain and body if you marinate in it for extended periods of time.
Bruce Schneier has a way with words
 
@Mysticial but do you like it? I think <library/stuff.cpp> is much easier to parse :p
 
11:23 PM
@melak47 don't make shitty structures, profit
 
I replaced all my times with std::chrono, I hope somebody is proud
 
@Griwes no hierarchy = good structure? :p
 
MSVC's chrono < 2015 is broken hth
 
@Mikhail Depends on how you used it
 
I mean internal includes. The "library" part is obvious.
 
11:23 PM
Relative includes are garbage
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva not always; it's considerably less broken recently
 
I use relative includes for implementation details and <> includes to include files that are part of the ibrary's interface.
That said, nodoby cares.
 
Yeah 2015 is okay
 
I'm going to sleep.
 
11:24 PM
Don't fall asleep now
that would be a waste of time
 
Thanks ^.^
 
night
 
Personally, I'd be fairly happy if I never heard the voice of Jennifer Hale again. Seriously, she's the Samuel L. Jackson of video games.
 
@melak47 lol no. But it's a habit from my earlier days before I discovered that you can tell the compiler to search from a specific path.
 
Love games that don't include her or any other overly familiar voice. Gives the game a unique character, fresh. Also, for reference, the guy who got $100k for 15 months was the guy behind Niko Bellic of GTA IV. Which was absolute shit.
@Mysticial Me too.
 
11:28 PM
My Pi program is literally littered with shit like this:
#include "../../../../Globals.h"
#include "../../../../Settings.h"
The Intel compiler has a filepath limit. And they don't collapse ../'s. So when I go in and out too many times (as a result of chained headers), it blows up.
 
lol
 
I guess broken people write broken code?
 
Yes, programmers write code
 
Still. There's no reason why git submodule add; ln -s ...include dir... nonius followed by #include "nonius/nonius.h++ shouldn't just work.
 
The reason is that vendoring libraries is garbage practice
 
11:31 PM
I like to structure my source files, there's a lot of them and it really helps. So, relative paths assist further. However, for users of the code it is fairly simple and clean-cut. They get all the headers proper, minus the ones that are none of their business.
 
Hell distributing libraries is garbage practice
 
meh relative includes
 
Woop, rasterizer_state is a go.
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva What do you prefer?
 
aaaand I ate the closing "
 
11:34 PM
#include <thing/blah/header.hpp>
 
within the library
 
Just always use #include <libname/{whatever}/stuff.hpp>
 
Internal includes of the library shouldn't require their path to be in include paths :/
 
Unless you have a compelling reason not to.
 
11:35 PM
Because that's a terrible PITA from configuration of multiple tools PoV.
 
yeah if it's header only you use "" ofc
 
yup.
 
otherwise <>
alternatively modules
oh wait
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva That kind of makes sense, yes.
But in the case we are discussing the library is header only, so...
 
@Morwenn Night night, sleep tight.
 
11:37 PM
> modules will solve every problem
 
no
the preprocessor will be alive
so some of the problems will stay :P
 
I don't think I can package my library as a module.
 
actually wait
 
That was the quote of a joke
 
When are they going to fix templates across compilation units?
 
11:38 PM
you can use <> even in header only
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva Ding ding ding.
 
@Mikhail Never. :P
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva that forces the user to -I
 
because you will always be using it from a third party project, never itself alone, ie, you're either building it through tests, in which case you need -I, or using it from another project, same scenario
 
@ElimGarak Fuck that, I'm downloading a copy of Digital Mars's compiler
 
11:38 PM
Since I rely on macros to configure my library, modules will never work out.
 
which is absurdly bad from tools perspective
 
@Mikhail never. That is not possible due to the way templates work. But we can get close to that with dynamic concepts if you accept the runtime overhead
 
Why is that absurdly bad?
 
@Griwes see above
 
I have my makefile, YCM and another clang-based plugin.
 
11:39 PM
I starred everything on the board. I feel dirty.
 
@Borgleader Just giving it away like its free.
 
now star all of my posts
 
Now I have to either 1) install the library (which nulls almost all the benefits of being header only) or 2) put the -I in three config files.
 
Xeo
hmm, gravatar's being a bitch for me
 
Both options are terrible.
 
11:40 PM
Are you saying that ln -s is a viable alternative
Because that breaks horribly
 
the ln was for convenience
I could just #include "../deps/nonius/include/nonius/nonius.h++ - since that's done once, it's all ok.
But I can just ln the entire path to just "nonius" for convenience vOv
 
Xeo
>nslookup gravatar.com
192.0.80.241
that... doesn't look right
 
Or you could just -Iinclude or -Ideps in the project you are compiling and done
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva ...again
I then need that in multiple places.
How can you not understand that from the multiple previous times I wrote that.
 
Use a non-shitty generator/build system.
 
11:43 PM
Yes, but only once for all of your dependencies, which I don't see as an issue because it scales :Ð as fb would say
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva I'm starting with the Cicada posts in 2011
 
@ThePhD Yeah, because every build system generates YCM configs. Yes. That's how it works.
Sigh.
 
@sehe that's quite a walk (note that Cicada isn't my first nick in this room)
 
Party on Mumble, guise.
Well, not really a party.
 
user406009
Wait, @AnastasiyaAsadullayeva is actually Cicada?
9
 
11:44 PM
Wait till you actually get to such a setup (you will) and cry loud.
 
user406009
Shit.
 
@Lalaland Yes. Have a star.
 
@CatPlusPlus Do you pay for google contributor?
 
For what?
 
Somewhat recently you said you'd pay to not see ads
 
11:45 PM
I pay for Adblock.
 
Yeah, to creators of worthwhile shit, not Google
Also not available here
 
@CatPlusPlus It doesn't necessarily pay google.
 
And 10$/month for maybe 50% less ads is lol
 
"necessarily"
Yeah
 
Also I could be sane-ish to just globally install nonius, but then... there's no actual interface for that in the library.
 
11:46 PM
Wonder how that'll pan out.
 
Of course it fucking pays Google
Whyever else would it have Google logo on it
 
@CatPlusPlus I'm sure google takes a cut of it.
Because just about every site uses googles adsense platform
 
@Lalaland lol sorry about that, I guess
 
Adsense already pays shit
This is probably be even less
 
@CatPlusPlus Probably, yeah.
 
11:47 PM
So I'm sure it will support the content makers greatly
 
I just thought it was a smart move on google's part.
 
I really don't care about "50% ads less maybe"
 
what are ads
 
Adblock is 100% less ads all the time. :>
 
I haven't seen an ad in years. Seriously, opening a browser without adblock is a shock to my system.
 
user3790646
11:48 PM
same.
 
user406009
Adblock makes internet browsing so much more enjoyable.
 
user406009
Of course, there is an ethical issue though.
 
There's a reason it's called "contributor" and not "lol internet premium pass"
some people like supporting content creators :<
 
I've no ethical issues with not seeing hot singles that want to fuck me.
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva Yeah. I wasn't going to recall the actual usernames. And hint: I didn't actually check whether 2011 was accurate
 
user406009
11:50 PM
Most of the people in the JavaScript room seem to strongly believe that adblockers are immoral.
9
 
lel
 
See. That's sad. I don't see them even without ad blocker.
Such a cruel handicap
 
@sehe you're married with children. hard to feel sorry for you.
;)
 
@Lalaland I'd tend to agree. I mean, don't act surprised if all the content gets "premium"-ed out of your reach.
Monetization is a real thing and it's why you have nice things
 
All my content is premium. Preferred payment method is stars.
 
11:52 PM
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva That's a fancy way of saying none of it is ;)
 
You're just jealous because you're not ~premium~
 
freemium
 
let's be real. if everyone started using adblock tomorrow, the internet would get a lot shittier and a lot more expensive.
 
@ElimGarak more like freemum
 
> error: call to 'apply_visitor' is ambiguous
wat
I guess I'll have to do without Nonius for now ;_;
 
user406009
11:54 PM
@Jeremy Does SO have ads?
 
Nah, only a small percentage of the glorious master race have adblock. We have peasant shills to take the ads for us. <3
 
I don't want to go on debugging this.
 
@Lalaland When you're not logged in it does
 
@ElimGarak All the people on facebook are worth it
@Lalaland lots of them
 
user406009
@ElimGarak You realize that's the complete opposite of a large branch of ethics?
 
11:56 PM
:D
 
user406009
> Act only according to that maxim by which you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law.
 
user406009
PHIL 101, bro.
 
@Jeremy no evidence
@Griwes it's because of your weird includes
I promise
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva No, you moron, I included it with -I.
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva rly
 
11:59 PM
@Griwes If you're using the stable branch everything compiles fine for me with msvc and gcc 4.9.1
@Griwes Good <3
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva Clang 3.8, bby.
 
As I said, I have no desire to debug retarded problems. :/
 

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