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12:02 AM
I think the points in the talk make sense but they are quite abstract and therefore hard to really understand without code examples unless you already know those things
 
Goddammit. The moment the 6700K finally stocks in volume, everything else on my build list shoots up in price and goes out of stock.
 
rekt
 
Having worked this job for 4 months now, I should've known to take a position in those commodities before the 6700K stocked. /cc @AnastasiyaAsadullayeva
 
@AndyProwl pretty descriptive of conference talks
hey pssst
your broker lingo is showing
Go long!
Get some exposure
 
@AndyProwl Beware of floating. How about fuck this feature =/
 
12:11 AM
Damm, battery almost dead
 
I only had time to watch 20 min of bjarnes talk during lunch :(
hahahaha
so true, yet so sad
wait why am i laughing :(
 
@Borgleader I watched live bjarne during my 20 min lunch :D
 
SO chat sucks
 
He was also having lunch
 
12:17 AM
@Borgleader despair
 
@AndyProwl wat - what "weird" trend is that and what do all the vs. vs. vs. say? We'll have to see the slides I suppose
 
Wasn't so interesting
 
@jaggedSpire I will despair no longer, for I have found this handycat space
 
@Borgleader chokes on sucrose
 
@AndyProwl is he saying the standard library avoids genericity (quoting get() on shared_ptr, optional and future?!?) and alleging the reason is because people don't understand templates or are afraid of them?
 
12:19 AM
Have you ever listened to Dennis Ritchie. I heard him talk about streams when they were big
 
Streams will always be big
 
@sehe I guess he's talking about the difficulty of writing generic code when the interfaces of those types do not adopt the same syntactic conventions. I'm half tempted to ask a question about that but I don't want to be misunderstood
 
@JohnCarlson Dennis Ritchie? On streams? really? I thought he was a C guy.
 
> I heard Kant talk about time when seconds were still in demand
@Borgleader C has streams.
 
Perhaps I should have said nee
New
 
12:20 AM
I think the underlying context is that future and optional and shared ptr are all functors
 
@JohnCarlson you can edit your posts: click the arrow that appears when you mouse over your message.
 
So you cannot write one single generic fmap, I assume - just my 2 cents, have to ask @Griwes
 
@AndyProwl nah, I think you're right. But, the funny thing is I /actually/ swap out shared_ptr, scoped_ptr and optional freely when refactoring code. No questions asked.
 
I'm on a phone
 
@JohnCarlson ah
 
12:21 AM
To compare shared_ptr interface to future's is... ludicrous to me
 
@AndyProwl I like this slide a lot, because I noticed the severe inconsistency myself.
 
@JohnCarlson Are you at cppcon too? :P
 
.value() on optional, when before it was .get()
I don't know why someone made it .value()
 
@JohnCarlson You mean, you're on a BOAT
 
No, I'm retired
 
12:21 AM
IIRC it was .get() in boost.
 
@JohnCarlson THEN WHO WAS PHONE?!!
 
And std::reference_wrapper also calls it .get()
 
@sehe ...of delicious tears.
 
:25900000 Thanks
 
@ThePhD np
 
12:22 AM
@ElimGarak and heaps. Of wistful sorrow
 
I really hope they change it to .get() for optional<T>
 
Sorry guys, this Dennis Ritchie talk was lik 1988
 
> new streams
 
@Borgleader 'MURICA
 
12:23 AM
I was -4 years back then.
 
I was 12
Viable age
 
@JohnCarlson knew streams before they were old
 
C++ was new kid on block that still used Cfront
 
@ElimGarak serious?
 
@ʞɔᴉN Well, yeah. 1992.
 
12:25 AM
kiddo
 
Elim is young?
 
too many little kids in here now
 
user406009
Wow.
 
I pegged them as like a 30+ year old.
 
user406009
12:25 AM
I thought Elim was like 37.
 
I also didn't get a computer until 2002. Not particularly wealthy family. Until I got a computer.
 
@chris ah, stupid template tricks. I need to pay more attention to that blog
 
Next level: compile-time c++ compiler
 
Hilariously enough, my first one didn't have a basic programmable GPU (fixed function GeForce 2).
 
12:27 AM
ahaha - disguised reference to monads;
The third bullet strangely at odds with the first two
 
@jaggedSpire Last I looked was the compile-time Tetris.
 
@chris yup
 
> Amazing. Next: A compile time C to x86 compiler.
Courtesy of Reddit
 
@sehe I am curious, what was your first machine? Do you even remember it? :D
 
@ElimGarak lel. My first computer was from before VGA! We had choice between CGA and Hercules (<-- choose that because sharper, less expensive monitors)
 
12:28 AM
 
@ElimGarak 286 8Mhz - 1Mb (so 640k + DOS UMB)
 
So you compile the compiler and it compiles your c code at the same time
 
Gawd.
 
286! At school we had proper XTs (186 / 8088 even)
 
@AndyProwl Uh oh, Griwes about to pick a vocabulary fight.
 
12:29 AM
Heh
 
Kinda jelly sehe and Jerry got to see the computer industry grow. It's all just intangible history to me.
 
It's too bad. I had a chance to work somewhere this term that would fly me down to CppCon and I took something else :/
 
@ThePhD I think he was talking about this in here yesterday or the day before. At least mentioning his dislike of using functor that way.
 
To me it's often intangible present too
 
user406009
@ElimGarak But, we will be able to see more of the future!
 
12:31 AM
@ThePhD it's a bit weird he's doing this "drive-by" history rundown without actually showing stuff. A bit like buzzword bingo
 
user406009
(At least, as long as we don't kill ourselves with alcohol, cigarettes, and sugar first)
 
don't forget to mention c++
 
Intel Pentium IV 1.8 GHz, 256 MB of DDR RAM and a GeForce 2 (fixed function). Also, a slow hard disk with 40 GB capacity. A 17" CRT display. And everything was still white back then.

Black was the new premium. Until it shifted when Apple got "relevant" again.
 
@sehe As long as we don't kill ourselves with c++ first?
 
yup
@ElimGarak lel. My first self-bought machine was a 486 DX or sumtin. 1GiB (I think). That had my first VGA (which I programmed with Turbo Graphics :/) and I think 10GiB hard drive
I remember when hard drives sounded like "fast" floppies. And had capacity in the tens of megabytes
 
12:34 AM
Ahahah, I would love to get a hold one of those machines in working condition. I'll have to check ebay.
 
Back when you would compile FDFORMAT so you could format more cylinders/tracks onto your floppy. And get 1.72MiB on it
@ElimGarak Yeah. Very nice if you want to play hangman, or try BannerMania for real
Be sure to get a 9pin Epson dot matrix
 
And thanks to your youthful fun, we still have to deal with CHS -> LBA translation on some old crap when trying to load a second stage bootloader / kernel into memory. Nothing like emulating a floppy USB and having 255 heads.
 
I actually wrote small programs that would print graphics using EPL
@ElimGarak Nah. That was manufacturer/driver stuffs. We didn't invent them. More like pushing the limits ("overclocking" on disk densities)
 
Ok, talk is over
 
Yeah, I am just kidding, but it is annoying. :D
 
12:37 AM
Now we need to get moar Loungers to talk at conferences
 
Well, how about you, andy? :P
 
@ElimGarak Nothing like writing your own HDD park utility and spending a week on the ASCII art with ANSI color codes and ASCII block drawing stuffs. In debug.com
 
I could go to pizzacon
 
(Yes. Debug.com, not debug.exe, that was later)
 
@Elim generally speaking I am not a huge knower
 
12:38 AM
@sehe How was Internet back then? Were you onboard in the 90s? Confession: I was on a 50.6k until 2005.
 
onboard? No, I got in touch with BBS only sporadically and basically not much before '96
@ElimGarak I had ISDN installed at home, for some time! Yay, I could burn twice the costs by combining two outgoing lines
That was ~2000 though
@ElimGarak Internet before that was mostly: get someone to post to a user group, and receive printed replies a week (or two) later
Woop woop. 2:41am Time for sleeps for reals.
Last night was only 3 hours and I'm feeling it
 
@sehe lies
 
user406009
@sehe But that would be a waste of time ....
 
Where's the contradiction
 
My extremely slow internet connection (4.5 kB/s at best) in my first years coupled with the "computer guy" failing to install Windows 98 & going for Windows XP, along with my first game being GTA III pretty much defined my future.
All I had was this huge open world, this thing called "C++" and all the time in the world.
 
user406009
12:43 AM
@ElimGarak What, GTA III gave you an intrinsic desire to hire hookers and shoot people?
 
I actually just walked & drove around. Was fascinated that something like that was possible. Prior to that, my gaming experience was Crash Bandicoot or some shit. No way but forward (progressing), backward (when something chases you) and right (platforming).
My first question on the internet was "How was Grand Theft Auto III made?". Someone said C++. And then the other guy berated him for suggesting C++ to a newbie.
 
^ Cool story
Story of the generations
 
Also, I tried to download C++. That same day. Didn't quite work out that way. Got some shit called "Dev-C++".
 
I had to /get/ it via people. Shareware/freeware/warez were a thing, but you could hardly afford to go looking on BBSes and /wait/ for the things to download.
BC++ 3.1 was 15 4.25" floppies IIRC
 
That's even more impressive, given that those who actually knew stuff about computers were far in between.
 
12:50 AM
But I did have that in ~1994/95
@ElimGarak I knew 1 chap whose father worked at TU Delft. He gave me all these things. I frantically saved up to buy the floppies
 
Holy shit.
 
Kept far too little of that stuff.
 
If I had been forced down that route, my only hope would probably be Zagreb, some 300 km away.
 
I would be quite proud to look at some early programings
And I wasted enormous amounts of paper. Printing out library documentation etc.
 
I actually have my original hard disk on the desk, but I would need to invest in hardware to read anything off it.
 
12:54 AM
May 10 '13 at 12:41, by sehe
@StackedCrooked I'm cleaning my study out (waaaaaay overdue) and I keep finding gems. Like "Het programmeren van de 8086/8088" (J.W. Coffron, 1987), "The Waite Group's Essential Guide to Turbo C" (1989)
Books I kept. Never thought about keeping the bits.
 
Okay C++ design advice time. I have a resource and POD information about that resource. I'm doing something like std::pair<resource,info> to avoid writing move constructors for the pod move type. Is this the best way to do it?
 
@jaggedSpire Seems you're right.
[A]bort, [R]etry, [I]gnore?
nn :)
 
@sehe night
 
Night!
 
Nini
... Wait, I was supposed to go get food
WTF happened.
FOOD>
 
user406009
12:57 AM
@Mikhail I would just create a simple struct if I was you.
 
user406009
It's nice to be able to type foo.resource or foo.info
 
user406009
@ThePhD The trick is to always keep a 3 month supply of beef jerky in your room.
 
user406009
It's actually quite cheap from Costco.
 
user406009
Are you sure your computer doesn't have a legacy IDE port?
 
user406009
1:01 AM
Lots of motherboards have at least one.
 
@sehe night dear
 
unfortunately, way too modern for my own good :D
I am very curious whether it still works, after 13 years.
 
user406009
I never have any luck with hard drives.
 
user406009
I just lost one this summer.
 
user406009
Only 4 years of life :(
 
1:08 AM
Fire alarm in the building, all elevators blocked. Had to walk up. Need a shower again.
 
user406009
And all those Community episodes ...
 
user406009
I had only gotten through the first season too.
 
user406009
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva Do you shower every time to you take a step?
 
No way to get lost in bellevue /cc @Lalaland:
 
user406009
@AndyProwl Do you have a phone?
 
user406009
1:11 AM
Then it's impossible to get lost.
 
@Lalaland It's 30 degrees C with 80+% humidity and had to walk up 14 floors
I probably sweat more than it rains yearly in Saudi Arabia
 
@Lalaland that was a joke BUT i have no internet connection on my phone
 
Now back to this insane bug
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva did you kill the bug
 
user406009
@AndyProwl You can pre-download the maps.
 
1:12 AM
@AndyProwl No, made it very small but it's still incomprehensible. Gonna try making it smaller even (lyd)
 
You know what can't possibly get smaller bby
 
Anyway post it if you manage to make an sscce, I'm curious
 
@AndyProwl Impossible to get lost--as long as all you're looking for is parking, anyway.
 
@ThePhD call it CompactCPP /cc @Vermillion
 
1:15 AM
@Mysticial Ahahahaha. Time to write some arbitraging bots!
 
@Jerry right. Actually even in that case you can end up in the wrong place:
 
@AndyProwl Getting there
 
I think I'm going for a swim
 
imagines Andy in speedo, dashing through the water with its firm arms and strong chest
 
@AndyProwl Some would argue that by going to Bellvue at all, you've already ended up in the wrong place. :-)
 
1:18 AM
I've been eating way too much since I'm here
@Jerry hehe
 
imagines Andy floating with ease because fat floats
 
@Anastasiya I have speedo :D
 
@ʞɔᴉN Wut.
 
I'm gonna float like your moms guise
All right, cya later
 
@AndyProwl Bye.
 
1:21 AM
@JerryCoffin Bellevue is dumb expensive and just a rich-people's place in general.
 
@AndyProwl hot
 
@ʞɔᴉN yep
 
I remember staying at a hotel where they charged you FIVE DOLLARS if you opened the cap off of "Complimentary" Water bottles.
 
user406009
@ThePhD But it has a YogurtLand!
 
@ThePhD eh you're too new
 
1:23 AM
:c
 
Wow. If I remove #include <vector>, program stops crashing. If I replace it with #include <memory>, it crashes again.
Nothing makes sense
If I merge all TUs into one, it stops crashing too
Hello Ctulhu my love
 
include more RAM first
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva PCH?
 
user406009
My guess is that vector isn't the header. Some other internal header is causes the problem.
 
user406009
I would see what headers <vector> itself includes.
 
1:28 AM
@ThePhD gcc
@Lalaland Yeah, getting there ;_;
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva ... has PCH, but I guess no, you're not using it.
 
Well I do a clean before each attempt
i wanna cri
 
is ok bb~~
 
user406009
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva I have had to play that game before. Eventually I was able to track down this fucker
 
Just found my first programmable GPU I ever got, an X1300LR (and coincidentally, one of the last produced AGP cards).
 
1:32 AM
@ThePhD No, just about to mention that name clashes can happen (...and then you'll have code that accidentally compiles) :P
 
lol, the tiny cooler
 
The days of ATi :D
 
@sehe At odds? Not really - my general point was that some patterns are natural and useful, and some are artificial and forced :P
@AndyProwl Yes. That is exactly the point :P
 
user406009
Isn't optional a monad as well?
 
For comparison, here's the HD6990 from late 2011:
Or as I used to call it, the nuclear submarine.
 
1:36 AM
@ElimGarak Why did you put your GPU next to a heater?
 
@AndyProwl there were like 100 people declaring themselves to appear on the schedule thingy
 
Oh, boy, the HD6990 at full power was like a Boeing 747 taking off.
 
@ElimGarak Could it melt steel beams?
 
user406009
@Borgleader Probably not. Only jet fuel can melt steel beams.
 
user406009
Does the "jet fuel can't melt steel beams" joke actually work for non-Americans?
 
user406009
1:39 AM
Or can only Americans get the reference?
 
for internet based non-Americans, yes
 
what do you mean "non-Americans"
 
filthy forners
 
@ElimGarak AMD <3
Newsflash: Airbus A380 reactors to be based on AMD's HD6990 design
 
@CatPlusPlus Well. At the same time as Alexandrescu's and Dos Reis' talks. vOv
 
1:44 AM
hello
 
hello
 
I wonder if Python has the NVI idiom
 
user406009
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva People not from the USA.
 
My progression through the years was, I think... GeForce 2 (fixed function, 2002) -> X1300LR (2006) -> 8800GTX (2007) -> GTX 480 (2010, skipped three years because nothing interesting was going on) -> 2xHD6990 (Nov. 2011) -> 2xGTX690 -> GTX980 (Oct. 2014 for DX12 shenanigans) -> 2x980Ti (2015 as part of new machine, for even more shenanigans) -> 4x Fury X (soon, for compute atrocities).
 
Interesting, I am slowly expanding the headers and I find this:
#pragma pack(push, 1)
#include <string>
#pragma pack(pop)
 
1:49 AM
Nice. You can cash that in at the local bank. Or get slapped. Either way, you'll get something.
 
I'm not sure how that may or may not influence the segfault
It doesn't make any sense :D
 
Yeah, simply aligning everything on a byte boundary and leaving it like that is the best. :P (And then taking up botany). Also, is that still that same issue from yesterday (or was that this morning?)
 
Oh hey, I got moneys.
 
Yes, same as yesterday
 
I have moneys, I should buy something.
 
1:54 AM
You should buy Cicada a new job.
 
I think I have a minimal repro!
eyyy bby u know what else I have minimal
2
 
is it your repro organ?
 
@ElimGarak Lol, 4x. You madman.
What is all this talk about
 
user406009
@ElimGarak What are you possibly rendering? Do the shadows themselves have shadows?
 
"Jet fuel can't melt steel beams"?
 
Ell
1:57 AM
Hello
Jet fuel can't melt dank memes
 
H @Ell o~
 
@Lalaland Full global illumination, as in no fake reflections anywhere (can already do with GTX 980s really nicely).
 
@Ell Are you born in the right time to explore dank memes?
 
Ell
Yes, that is the goal of my generation
to explore dank memes
 
also lol
> <hansw> jeaye: the 3.7 pre-builts switched to using cmake on must platforms, except osx and freebsd
<hansw> *most
<hansw> 3.5 and 3.6 were built with the autoconf build
...prebuilt clang binaries for 3.7 lack libclang.a
fail
 

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