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12:00 AM
(discussion follows in context)
 
user406009
It's sorta annoying that Microsoft Research projects only tend to support Windows.
 
Eh, it's not a rule
And it is Microsoft Research after all
MSFT was big on dogfooding for a long time
Kind of changing lately though
 
@ScottW I'm not needed anymore!
Night all
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ lol me trying to use arrays with 5 mins of documentation pastebin.com/uX4S9zge
I had to do it before going to sleep tho :<
and I actually understand the non-retarded versions like
mineLocation :: Array (Int, Int) Int -> Maybe (Int, Int)
mineLocation array = find (\i -> array ! i == 1) (indices array)
I've no idea how to use this language
@ScottW sup
 
Yeah 90s.
 
12:09 AM
@ScottW it's the beat from youtube.com/watch?v=yi7mq3MEVeM
I like it :D
 
@ScottW Squad, regroup!
 
'lo
 
Poles 1 : 0 World
 
12:20 AM
@Borgleader pimpin'
 
That awkard moment when you're finally in your bed and suddenly realize the cause of that last bug. Current status: making a pot of tea
 
user406009
Tea has so little caffeine though.
 
user406009
I find it almost useless for those "who needs sleep, I have shit to do" nights.
 
@sehe s/the cause of that last bug/you took a wrong turn. Who's bed am I in right now?/
 
@Lalaland this is why you drink an entire pot of it.
 
12:22 AM
@Lalaland No need. I'm thrilled I'll prolly fix this thing. I can officially stop going to the office once it's done
 
Ell
@sehe this is awful!
 
@sehe nice!
 
@Ell The situation is not "regular" though. When this gets acceptance tested, I don't have to show up for work at all anymore.
Well, I intend to make some knowledge transfer things, but none of that has been agreed
 
@sehe Current Bus Factor: 0.8 (of 1.0)
 
@sehe You're changing jobs?
 
12:24 AM
Like me
 
@Borgleader yup
@CatPlusPlus you work remote?
 
Ell
@ScottW I love you too
 
@sehe Ohh congratz :)
 
Man, working with files in python is crummy.
 
@sehe Yeah
 
Ell
12:25 AM
@sehe Ah I see
 
The office is like 15 minutes away
 
user406009
@ThePhD Nah, it's awsome.
 
@Borgleader Have yet to find a new job :S
 
user406009
With statement + read all lines.
 
@Lalaland Boo.
 
12:25 AM
@ScottW he just can't bear the bad code anymore.
 
Ok. Focus
 
user406009
@ThePhD What more could you want?
 
@ScottW k
 
Man, preparing my book in LaTeX is draining my lifeforce.
 
user406009
You are writing a book?
 
12:27 AM
Python is actually not that bad
 
@sehe Oh. Well I'm sure you will find one soon enough!
 
@ElimGarak At least it's in LaTeX?
 
@Lalaland On realtime rendering, have been for 2 years actually. Now in the final typesetting stages, which will probably take a while.
 
@Lalaland Understand-My-Format-Automatically functions.
 
@ThePhD do_what_i_mean()
 
12:28 AM
I intend to publish it for free, naturally.
 
@Borgleader Exactly!
 
user406009
@ThePhD regex + recursive descent my friend.
 
user406009
@ElimGarak Awesome. Let us know when it's done!
 
Ell
@ElimGarak oh shit seriously?
 
user406009
@ThePhD Also, does any language have anything like that?
 
Ell
12:30 AM
@ElimGarak I'll buy it!
 
@ElimGarak :O
 
@Lalaland R
 
user406009
R doesn't have good facilities for parsing custom formats.
 
user406009
If you want to parse CSV, use a CSV parsing library.
 
I will have to probably develop my own document class to properly display/format all the equations and code with nice syntax highlighting. Currently just trying out various existing templates, like the Tufte one.
 
12:32 AM
@ElimGarak I'm surprised there isnt a readymade LaTeX thing you can use.
 
@Borgleader also requires some focus. I've been procrastinating the search until my work was done
 
There are many, but mostly look generic and weird. Unworthy of something that needs to be littered with inspiring rendering results.
 
Not the best choice
 
Huh
Python is weird.
 
@ElimGarak You just need to intsantiate my BookShader under OpenDirectGLX, and it'll come out beautiful... :-)
 
12:36 AM
All of the variables on a class are just... global variables.
@JerryCoffin OpenDX, best cross-platform library for graphics.
I was fond of the name DirectGL, though.
 
@sehe Wonderful.
 
However, some scumbag is squatting the name: sourceforge.net/projects/directgl
 
@sehe Does this mean less livestreams?
@ʞɔᴉN I want to get new keyboard to try out linear switches.
MX Reds are good I think.
I don't like blacks.
Too heavy.
 
@ThePhD Just because he's planning to write it in C# doesn't mean he's a scumbag (though, admittedly, the fact that he grabbed the name, but hasn't done anything with it isn't exactly great).
 
Ooh I can get a Quickfire TK.
 
user406009
12:42 AM
@ThePhD Don't use sourceforge.
 
user406009
SourceForge has now become an asshole company.
 
@Nooble at this moment: yes (can't leak IP/trade secrets). But in general, no.
 
Ah ok.
 
user406009
@Nooble Blue switches are good.
 
user406009
I have had this blue switch daskeyboard for a while and it hasn't let me down yet.
 
12:43 AM
@Lalaland I have blues :)
 
user406009
The trick is not using it when the roommate is around.
 
What is the difference between c & c++? I would examples like classes, templates, lambdas, etc? (I think this is to broad for stackoverflow)
 
user406009
@William C++ is pretty much a superset of C with additional features.
 
Tufte really looks Spartan. Just laid out a small experiment intro chapter in it, I really want to add renders below each chapter's name and composite the title so it nicely protrudes from the background.
 
@Lalaland Everyone deserves to hear the majestic sound.
 
user406009
12:44 AM
Those features you mentioned are the main ones.
 
It feels very good.
Also clean your keyboard.
I'll never forget.
 
@Lalaland I would like a complete list so I can edit this question
 
user406009
@William The best source for knowing all the possible features of C++ is the C++ standard.
 
@William And I would like AMD Zen to come out right now.
 
user406009
There's a lot of junk in C++.
 
user406009
12:46 AM
@William github.com/cplusplus/draft has the latest standard versions.
 
@Nooble Is AMD Zen a C++ or C feature?
 
I wish.
 
user406009
@William Anyways, the answer to that question is probably "Yes, but it would require a lot of work"
 
@William AMD should have given it away =/
 
user406009
@William If you want to program on a C++ AST, use libclang
 
user406009
12:48 AM
That would be a much better solution than trying to hack in C++ support for SymbolicC
 
@Borgleader Given what away?
 
@ThePhD AMD Zen -> language feature!?
 
@Lalaland AST is exactly what I want but I would like to be able to do it inside of Mathematica. What does AST look like in C++ such that I could write it inside Mathematica?
 
@Nooble So would AMD.
 
12:51 AM
hahaha
 
user406009
@William You would write a Mathematica adapter for libclang using reference.wolfram.com/language/guide/CLanguageInterface.html
 
user406009
libclang is a C library. (Well, it has a C interface at least)
 
user406009
@William It would be very ugly though. If I was you, I would write most of the logic in C++. And then provide a very small number of API's to Mathematica.
 
@Lalaland Could/Would you answer such a question if I added a bounty?
 
good morning
 
user406009
12:54 AM
I pretty much said all I would say here anyways. You write a C++ or C program using libclang.
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva Good morning.
 
user406009
You call some functions exported by that adapter in Mathematica.
 
user406009
Those two links I posted (Mathematica C interfacing, and libclang API) should be all you need.
 
So I bought milk, opened it, found it weird tasting, then realize it was lactose-free milk.
That probably explains the weird taste.
 
user406009
I've almost fallen for that trap before as well.
 
12:56 AM
@JerryCoffin :P
 
user406009
They put it right by the normal milk.
 
user406009
And then they have these stupid brand names like "Real Milk"
 
@EtiennedeMartel I'd guess so, yeah. Ensure that all beverages you buy contain alcohol and this will never happen to you again.
 
@Lalaland It almost tastes like soy milk, though.
 
@Lalaland (That sounds like a no.) Do u even have Mathematica?
Because if it was easy I think it would have already been donish.
 
1:00 AM
@JerryCoffin But sometimes I need to make a bechamel sauce.
 
Considering they have SymbolicC
 
user406009
@William Only used it a couple of years back. I have had to do similar things with a C++ wrapper for other projects in languages like Java and Python.
 
user406009
Sometimes you really need to use libraries with C interfaces.
 
@Lalaland Stupid OpenGL.
 
u mad, brah?
 
1:01 AM
(Also I like milk)
 
u mad aboot dat gl?
 
Ell
@EtiennedeMartel that ain't a beverage
Oh wait
lol. ignore me
 
@EtiennedeMartel Note that I didn't say this was a particularly good idea--just that it would prevent this particular mishap...
 
user406009
@ThePhD Sometimes it seems like half the Lounge has a serious love/hate relationship with OpenGL.
 
More like a hate/hate relationship
 
1:05 AM
/cc @BartekBanachewicz
 
@Lalaland Programmers fall into three groups: those who hate DX, those who hate OpenGL, and those who hate all that graphics crap.
 
Does anyone know a better room to ask AST C++ and whether or not the following question would be well fit for this site?
@Lion If they are truly rules you should probably post them in place of "We're a rowdy bunch, but deep down we love each other."
 
@William The short answer is absolutely not.
 
@ThePhD to what? AST C++ or the rules?
Never mind you meant the question.
 
SymbolicC can't be "extended" to support C++. It's not going to happen (C++ requires a much more difficult and rigorous lexing/parsing thing and you can't just "extend" a C parser to do it). And to whether or not that question is on-topic, who knows. The community doesn't seem to think so.
 
1:08 AM
@William It's more fun to hide the rules, then torment anybody who doesn't divine them on their own.
 
@ThePhD It's not a parser
"The 2nd rule is to never speak about the rules"
 
@William Oh, we speak about the rules constantly--but usually in ways that are at least intended to sound self-contradictory and inconsistent. We generally figure the kindest thing we can do for anybody is keep them from getting addicted to the Lounge.
 
The first rule is do not touch my hair
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva hi
 
ello seehee
 
user406009
1:11 AM
This chat only has one rule: "Don't be an asshole to the regulars of the chat"
 
@Lalaland Bullshit, you asshole! :-)
It's really more like: "don't be an asshole unless people will realize it's probably in fun so you can get away with it."
 
Man, since we got rid of Telkitty, I can see colors again.
 
user406009
There are of course a couple of ... fast tracks ... for getting the regulars mad at you.
 
Really?
 
@ElimGarak Uh ... not entirely sure she left
 
1:16 AM
Yeah it mostly revolves around question dumping
 
PLEASE HELP JAVA ROOM INACTIVE
 
Everyone was all "oh she got mad and left", i come in the next day, guess whos there
 
@Borgleader She's been banned for 6 days yesterday, hopefully, we'll never see her again.
 
@Lalaland that's not suspicious at all
 
I have break tomorrow and Thursday.
Gonna work on Icicle.
 
1:18 AM
@ElimGarak She'll be back.
 
user406009
I really don't understand what you guys have against Telkitty.
 
Yup, definitely rolling my own document class. This is way too Cornell 1960s style.
 
Cornell Dublier makes great capacitors.
 
@ElimGarak Cornell box <3
 
I'll make a rail gun one day.
 
1:23 AM
So I asked the c vs c++ question.
 
@William Allow me to extend my condolences in this hour of sadness.
 
@JerryCoffin I found no duplicate.
 
It's a bad question, doesn't have to be a duplicate. And to ask what is the difference between C and C++ is a deep insult to everyone who breathes C++.
 
@ElimGarak 1) isn't c a sub set of c++ technically(therefore similar) 2) it should have tangible answer(it's not that broad)
 
well they can't both be subsets of each other
 
1:26 AM
C++ has a C-like subset but C isn't a subset of C++
 
C+=17
 
Some (most) C code is valid C++.
 
Yes, C++ is a superset* of C with a big asterisk attached to it.
 
I get that people don't like the question but it isn't broad. There are what 20 additions that c++ that c doesn't.
4
 
you're asking people to enumerate all the ways that C++'s syntax is different from C's syntax - how is that not broad
 
1:29 AM
Are you asking for the differences in grammar? That's easy, both are available in their respective standard.
 
@William Far greater I think.
 
And for fuck sake stop saying "AST tree"
Abstract Syntax Tree Tree, provided to you by the Department of Redundancy Department? — Anastasiya Asadullayeva 4 mins ago
5
 
He deleted it.
 
C++ is a superset of C in the same way an F35 Lightning II is a superset of a cropduster.
 
@William That depends heavily upon how you interpret things--"classes, inheritance and polymorphism" can be seen as narrow (three words), or as the subject of multitudes of books, decades of research, the entirety of several journals, dozens of conferences, and so on and so forth.
 
1:31 AM
^ C++ was and is a fundamental paradigm shift. The fact it does it with these slim additions (as you incessantly imply) makes it that more impressive.
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva Now I get it.
@Nooble It was about to be closed anyways.
 
@William IMO your question made little sense...
 
@William starred for sheer ignorance
 
@IskarJarak I think it was a poorly written question but clear what I wanted.
 
It's very clear what you want.
Do you want it "now now" too?
 
1:34 AM
StackOverflow is for developers* (conditionally). If you don't understand the difference between C++ and C, you need to digest a lot more than a single question's answer can provide. Hence, a poor question spawned from laziness.
 
@William given that an AST is a representation of a specific piece of source, I didn't find it clear what you wanted at all
 
@William Check the standards.
 
@William If what you wanted was literally just "how are C and C++ different" you should have stuck to that instead of confounding things by talking about ASTs
 
@IskarJarak So I'll edit it and reopen yes?
 
No. Hell, no. You should reopen a book. Lots of books.
 
1:36 AM
No
Too broad.
IMO
 
Just learn C++ in 21 days, then learn C in 7 days, then you'll know the difference.
 
And [c] denizens will hate on you for not knowing that C++ is not C, nor a true superset of C.
 
@melak47 I only have 2 days though.
 
2 days to do what
 
To finish Assassin's Creed Syndicate.
 
@William isn't the algebra system you're talking about called SymbolicC++? Or is there a C equivalent?
 
@IskarJarak There isn't, that is why I'm asking the question. I'm not really familiar with C so I'm trying to create a list of how to modify SymbolicC to support c++
 
SymbolicC++ is a general purpose computer algebra system embedded in the programming language C++. It is free software released under the terms of the GNU General Public License. SymbolicC++ is used by including a C++ header file or by linking against a library. == Examples == The following program fragment inverts the matrix symbolically. The output is [ cos(theta) −sin(theta) ] [ sin(theta) cos(theta) ] The next program illustrates non-commutative symbols in SymbolicC++. Here b is a Bose annihilation operator and bd is a Bose creation operator. The variable vs denotes the vacuum state ...
 
> SymbolicC represents C programs and structures with Mathematica's high-level symbolic language enabling Mathematica programs to transform and optimize C. It is used extensively for Mathematica's code generation tools.
 
Check the standards damn it.
 
1:40 AM
Doing that for C++ seems..problematic to me
 
@melak47 There are edge cases but very few.
 
how are you going to teach Mathematica to deal with C++ constructs?
 
@William If you "know" there are very few edge cases, surely you don't need someone else to enumerate the differences for you?
 
@melak47 It's not that difficult all does it convert the formatting to strings. You use StringJoins and a ReplaceRepeated
 
@William I have no idea what you're talking about
 
1:43 AM
@IskarJarak Macros are the only reason a language shouldn't be like SymbolicC
 
Just found some more ancient screens from 2014.
 
Well also #if and other stuff like that
 
@William That looks you'd need to rewrite whatever the backend of SymbolicC does to support C++ features
 
@William so does this just produce string representations? what do you do with this
 
1:46 AM
due to classes, STL, etc
 
@ElimGarak DOFmagoj
 
@IskarJarak this
 
I actually explained that particular obsession of mine. :D
 
@melak47 to me it looks like it builds a Wolfram tree and can both execute it and generate C source from it
 
@ElimGarak lel
 
1:48 AM
lol with that windows 8 in the bg
 
@IskarJarak the odd thing is the demonstration of the "call" produces the C representation of the equivalent
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva (That was actually early Windows 10 (looked quite a bit like Win8, back when the build was 9861 or something))
 
or does CCal create a callable object that you can then call? :p
 
Also, some near-field DoF for good measure.
It has issues with convincing bleeding, though, so I evade it like the plague for now.
 
@ElimGarak Stop being so good at this.
:(
 
1:51 AM
@Nooble We want Icicle screens :D
 
@ElimGarak Need to implement index buffers and shading.
Where do you get such good textures?
 
@melak47 on further inspection I think it just generates C code, which can then be compiled and presumably executed from within wolfram
rather than making a callable object
 
@IskarJarak it is kinda like c + lisp without the garbage collector and it must be computed beforehand(although this can be worked around with a c interpeter).
 
@William wat
 
@Nooble Quixel + personal processing, it's a company that scans real materials, but usually at a limited resolution, so you need to get creative.
 
1:54 AM
it has nothing in common with Lisp AFAICS
 
You can also turn to the company behind Substance Designer if you need a way to develop cool materials.
 
@IskarJarak Technically it has pattern matching for function declaration so it is better then lisp. But this isn't a Mathematica vs Lisp competition.
 
oh, you're talking about Wolfram Language now
 
But yes it uses f[args] instead of (f args)
 
My team actually also ventures out in the wild and collects a lot of high res pics of everything, from urban to rural. From which you need to remove the "baked" lighting and process to generate proper material definitions. It's a bitch to get right, in a nutshell.
 
1:56 AM
It wasn't renamed until like the last year or so.
 
that's distinct from SymbolicC
 
True
 
... so what did you think melak47 and I were talking about?
because we were discussing SymbolicC
 
WOW thanks you so much sehe. you have answered so many of my boost questions. — user249806 19 secs ago
Tears.
In my eyes.
 
@IskarJarak SymbolicC has to run in Mathematica/Wolfram language therefore the lisp functionality is a given.
 
1:58 AM
uh, sure, for generating C code...
I fail to see how lisp-like functionality in WL is relevant to what SymbolicC actually does
 
"Avoid +1 and thanks", god forbid someone expresses gratitude on SO. Only derogatory berating allowed.
 
@ElimGarak Is this rasterized with traced lights or entirely traced?
 

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