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3:00 AM
Maybe tuples with apply for the toppest of keks.
 
Lolwhy?
 
And I'll even throw in a string_view implementation, plus my encoded_string_view when they ask me for string stuff for MAXIMUM LELZ.
@Nooble There is absolutely no reason I shouldn't. If I'm going to be bored out of my mind I might as well make the TAs pay for it.
Maybe set off a red flag, or five, and have them try to slap me with Academic Discipline, so I can laugh at them.
 
user406009
Hating the TA's is stupid.
 
user406009
The TA's have like no control over anything.
 
TA?
 
3:01 AM
They'll wish they did. >:D
 
teacher's assistant
 
user406009
@Nooble Teaching assistant.
 
user406009
The people who do grading and help sessions.
 
user406009
Mostly fellow undergrads or graduate students.
 
user406009
It's a thankless job.
 
user406009
3:02 AM
(At least in my experience)
 
And an underpaid job.
 
I remember getting 14 at a C++ exam because I did nothing like the course :D
I cared a lot.
 
If they give me a 14 I'm going to dropkick someone.
 
14 out of?
 
3:04 AM
Oh.
 
user406009
@ThePhD Write your C++ programs in template lang.
 
user406009
The best C++ dialect.
 
user406009
I did that once.
 
user406009
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva 14/20 isn't that bad.
 
Be sure to use absolutely everything in std::experimental.
 
3:05 AM
@Lalaland For an exam that is likely perfect, it's subpar
OTOH I did use many features that the professor was not aware of
I'm not going to write C++98 to please you, sorry.
 
user406009
Lol, C++98.
 
user406009
This discussion reminds me of a class I am currently in.
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva void*
 
user406009
Where we are supposed to create these complex type hierarchies which are sorta pointless.
 
user406009
People need to learn to keep things simple.
 
user406009
3:08 AM
Only add complexity as needed.
 
user406009
Number of lines is not something to be achieved. Instead, "number of lines spent" is a more accurate way of thinking.
 
Lol.
I wanted to drag in my c_string_view template type.
But it has all these....
... dependencies.
On headers.
 
user406009
I still don't know why you signed up for those worthless classes.
 
user406009
Aren't the credit hours sorta worthless?
 
user406009
(Except as GPA filler)
 
user406009
3:18 AM
There are legitimately useful classes out there.
 
user406009
Like formal logic.
 
The credit hours are just enough to put me over the hump of "how many credits I need to take per semester to stay on track".
@Lalaland I already took Computer Science Theory and I'm doing Probability & Statistics, Linear Algebra, and Digital Logic / Circuits.
Alongside Physics, Masterpieces of Western Music, and Python.
 
user406009
None of those is a formal logic class.
 
Do you mean Discrete Mathematics?
 
user406009
No.
 
user406009
3:20 AM
Formal logic would probably be in your school's philosophy department.
 
Oh.
That doesn't count towards credits I need.
Soooooooo.... no!
 
lol credit systems
 
@ThePhD more now is less later :3
 
@jaggedSpire Your catface of deceit won't get me!
 
user406009
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva What do you think would be a better system for defining who gets a degree?
 
3:31 AM
@ThePhD look not behind ye, for in your shadow looms the catface of over-commitment.
 
@Lalaland money
Wait! It already works like that
Silly me and my egalitarian ideals
 
user406009
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva So you want graduation requirements to just be a fat sack of cash, payable to the school?
 
That's already the case
 
@jaggedSpire I am not over-committed! Nothing lies in my shadow.
@Lalaland That's... exactly how credit works.
Literally, exactly.
 
@ThePhD :3
Well, with the addition of time.
 
user406009
3:33 AM
@ThePhD Technically, the exams and grades are what get you the credit.
 
user406009
Now if only they could let to take the exams directly without the class ...
 
"You're exempt from all these courses because you're clearly too smart for them... But we won't give you credit for them because you need to A) register for a course and get given a grade by a Professor and B) pay money for that class at an accredited institution."
This translates exactly to "did you pay the appropriate authority to do the hoops to get a marking letter after spending all of your cash"?
 
> I can only guess that people assume c++ is this overwhelming language is because they think they need to know everything in the language in order to be productive with it. I will probably never learn what an rvalue reference is or give a shit about move semantics. I don't need to learn template metaprogramming.
 
user406009
@Prismatic rvalues and std::move are sort of necessary for a lot of C++ work though.
 
user406009
There are a lot of move-only types.
 
3:35 AM
Agreed. I think TMP is also important
 
No?
Software was written before these concepts.
In C++.
 
user406009
I would argue TMP is less important. Learning the basics of how templates work is the important part.
 
user406009
Being able to write a prime finder in template-lang is of less use.
 
@Prismatic what
Might as well do C# or Java :/
 
it was a reddit comment
 
3:38 AM
@ThePhD The whispers seem to follow you: It will be easy they slip in your ear. But when you turn there is nothing. It will even be fun! The only movement is the sway of trees across the road. 21 is a nice number of credit hours.
 
@jaggedSpire I can't heaar yooou.
 
At least they haven't suggested reimplementing the standard library as a learning experience.
 
@Lalaland Having at least enough understanding to use them intelligently is one thing (and nearly a necessity). Knowing enough to implement them in your own classes is a whole different story.
 
Reimplementation is a dark road, full of regret and pain.
 
@Prismatic typical
 
3:41 AM
man android is so... ugh
I want an iphone
 
@jaggedSpire I think you should do exactly that. Starting right now. This very instant. Have you start to code it up yet? Get to it!
 
@JerryCoffin nooooooooo
 
user406009
Isn't the standard library a bit too big to reimplement?
 
user406009
At this point it's probably in the man-decades for each useful implementation.
 
@Lalaland No, of course not (though there are a few bits and pieces that require compiler "magic").
 
3:43 AM
@ThePhD eh heee hee
 
insert darth vader NOOO here
 
Herb just basically said "patches welcome" (well, he said "papers", but still) about tbe standard.
(the committee is being grilled)
 
user406009
Did anyone make a joke about modules?
 
@jaggedSpire oh my god QQ
 
@Griwes regarding what?
 
3:44 AM
@jaggedSpire yes this
My professor made us do this
 
user406009
@VermillionAzure Which parts did you have to re-implement?
 
@Lalaland It was a simple C++ class
 
Regarding the standard.
 
@VermillionAzure My profs only made us do maps and vectors, I think. And lists.
 
stack, queue, dequeue, singlely-linked list, vector
No maps though. Maps are a far away place that probably involve hashes which I'm not ready for
 
user406009
3:46 AM
@VermillionAzure Nah, std::map is a binary tree type structure.
 
oh right. Unordered maps those too
 
user406009
std::unordered_map is the hash map one.
 
@Griwes Can you be more vague pls
 
"you added this and this, why not this obvious thing?" "patches welcome"
 
@Lalaland Yeah unordered
 
3:46 AM
This is not an exact quote.
 
@Griwes It is now
 
And yes Herb was also vague
 
The most impressive thing I did was to write a parser for that class. For a sudoku file. In text. ugh.
 
user406009
@Griwes Did anyone bring up a possible revival of static_if?
 
Problem of contribooting to the C++ standard is that it's too much effort for most people
 
3:47 AM
Still just the first question being answered
 
@Lalaland btw what is this. is this compiling logic in TMP?
 
One about biggest misconceptions
 
user406009
@VermillionAzure It's an easier way to do compile time programming.
 
Though Ville is there, so if the question is raised, it will probably answer.
 
user406009
Rather than std::enable_if scattered everywhere.
 
3:48 AM
@Lalaland Jesus, the things people have to do just to do meta-programming
Btw, what exactly is metaprogramming? Where does it begin and end?
Is it stuff like, "instantiate this class based on the parameters I provide if these types are defined?"
 
user406009
Metaprogramming is usually defined as logic which works on the program itself.
 
user406009
Usually it's stuff like "define this function in a certain way if certain constraints are satisfied"
 
@Lalaland Still a bit confused
 
user406009
Best example I can think of would be serialization code.
 
@Lalaland ...???
 
user406009
3:50 AM
You want a library which can theoretically take in arbitrary classes and serialize them.
 
s/answer/be answered/ in my last message
 
@Lalaland as in, representable in binary?
 
Seems I'm more tired than I thought.
 
user406009
@VermillionAzure Binary, JSON, whatever.
 
user406009
You want your code to read in the properties (does it have a constructor?, etc, etc) of the class and types of every member and serialize it properly.
 
3:51 AM
@Lalaland Oh. Can you even do that generally in C++?
 
user406009
Not quite yet. We need the reflection api's.
 
@Lalaland There isn't something like...
auto a =serialize<type>(class);
And then maybe some sort of compile-time table of all types and such showing how to serialize each one or perhaps define methods for each class and then compose them?
 
user406009
That's what we would theoretically want in our final library.
 
user406009
Like I said, I believe we still need our reflection api to do this properly.
 
user406009
Last I checked, there were various proposals.
 
3:53 AM
@Lalaland Is that even going to happen?
I thought the point of C++ is to remain low-mid level?
 
user406009
The point of C++ is zero cost abstractions.
 
user406009
Compile time metaprogramming satisfies that goal.
 
@Lalaland Most of the algorithms/iterators/containers would probably be a few (six or eight) man-months or so. iostreams would probably be a couple more (or so). Atomics and thread support would depend--they're modeled closely enough on POSIX that they'd be a lot more work on Windows than on Linux. Numerics would take a couple months. Then a good job on regex would probably take close to as much time as everything else put together.
 
@Lalaland Hm.
I guess you're right.
But then C++ would become the ultimate language. With an ultimate learning curve.
 
@VermillionAzure of ultimate destiny. Good code bad code and explosions far as the eye can see...
 
4:00 AM
@jaggedSpire And only... uh... one will survive, I wonder who it will be?
 
user406009
Clearly only Rust will after everything else is gone. It's right in the name!
 
@Lalaland It might a decent idea
Although C++ is established, it doesn't imply that it's the best language.
 
@JerryCoffin I want to implement pretty printing, but someone's already beaten me to it a thousand times over.
Wonder if there's an official operator<<( std::basic_ostream<Char, TRaits>& os, const char* p, std::size_t n ) thing I can invoke...
Fuck
is there NO string_view support even in the basic sense ANYWHERE?
 
4:23 AM
Good night.
Finished everything.
I can no longer type properly it seems.
 
I'm going to murder this JS lib if I can't get it to work within the next 20 mins
night nobble
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva Jokes on you: it was already dead to begin with.
@Nooble Night, Nibbity Nobbity Nooble-y.
 
@ThePhD ...? You want a pretty string output for stuff in C++?
 
@VermillionAzure Compile-time printf pls.
With compile-time formatting options.
 
@ThePhD Ah that's what you mean.
@ThePhD But C++ is indeed like C in its attitude. "Less is more" (unless I'm the standard library that's suddenly hungry for more)
 
4:29 AM
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva did you try turning it on an off
 
4:45 AM
> I don’t mean to sound overly dramatic, but coming across Bedrock and Sage has completely changed the way that I code (and much for the better).
hipster detector just broke
 
"I don't mean to be a hipster, but I am a hipster."
 
Hm.
So working on the docutils aspect, it seems I can't just use a regular string/list.
I have to use something called ViewList.
inkdoc continues to get more complicated.
 
@Rapptz Creep creep creep creep.
 
5:03 AM
Oh I can make a ViewList from a list.
Still.
This needs like a massive reworking.
:<
At least now I can sort of understand why the autodoc code is such a clusterfuck.
 
is it because you suck
:gratuitous:
 
ye
does anyone here want to help with it btw
look how many tabs I have open just for docs
RIP me etc
 
5:30 AM
Lol.
I did it.
This assignment is 100% maximum overkill.
Now it's time to make my python assignment 200% maximum overkill.
 
wello hankers
 
> The using-directive using namespace std; at any namespace scope introduces every name from the namespace std into the global namespace (since the global namespace is the nearest namespace that contains both std and any user-declared namespace), which may lead to undesirable name collisions. This, and other using directives are generally considered bad practice at file scope of a header file.
Why is C++ so confusing
trying to understand it is so unproductive
 
Why is using namespace {anything}; bad?
 
5:45 AM
I dont know, why
 
Because it imports function names into the global namespace.
Which causes overload resolution name collisions.
 
why isn't it just limited to the scope its declared in
 
It is.
You declared it in a header file.
And you included that header file elsewhere.
So it's included in all of those files, at the global scope you included it in.
C++ has no notion of "files".
Just "text you copy-pasted in front of this other text".
It's all one big blob for each translation unit.
 
I don't get what that has to do with 'global namespace'
 
Oh, the quote is confusing. Where did it come from?
Whoever wrote it minced words.
 
5:55 AM
cppreference
 
If you using namespace X; inside of another namespace, it imports things into that namespace. Not the global namespace altogether.
 
What's confusing about it
 
Looks like someone was too eager to give advice and jumped a few words.
 
> using directives are generally considered bad practice at file scope of a header file.
^
 
> at any namespace scope introduces every name from the namespace std into the global namespace
^ wrong
"introduces every name from namespace {x} into [the namespace scope that you did the using in]" is correct.
They can add a separate warning later.
They fucked up the regular definition.
 
5:57 AM
oh indeed
 
Not even that is correct actually
The names are not really introduced like e.g. in a using declaration, but for unqualified lookup they are considered as if they were declared in the nearest enclosing namespace
Can't coliru from here but try a using declaration in a function for some NS::foo and redeclaring some foo inside the function. You should get a compiler error. But with a using directive you shouldn't
 
bstrString = pIXMLHTTPRequest->responseText;
Guys this line always return the same string why?
 
Because you're querying the same website?
@AndyProwl Well, you go fix it. :c
 
@ThePhD I change the file but still the result is same?
 
...
"The file"...?
 
6:08 AM
Sir yes.
 
Why don't you think through your problem carefully and ask a question on Stack Overflow.
I don't think I can help you here.
 
Sir i explain in file i put number 001 and then change to 111. But program always show me 001. event after changing file.
 
Did you re-upload that file to the webserver you're hitting?
 
Sir i refresh that file in google chrome it show 111. But in program 001.
 
Don't know what to tell you, don't know what framework you're using, to many things I don't know. Think carefully about what might be going wrong and ask a well-formulated question on Stack Overflow.
 
6:12 AM
Sir, i am not able to ask question in stack overflow. Because they block my question.
Sir please help i explain. I am using mfc dll.
my code is this:
 
Oh god please don't
Put it in a pastebin or a gist or something
 
Ok sir i don't put here. How i solve this problem?
 
Don't know. MFC is a dead technology with a horrible API. And I'm not well-versed in it.
 
But in this case i am only using msxml2::Domdocument30
 
Look up the documentation for that. I don't know how to help you.
 
6:16 AM
According to all the namespace guidelines I can find, you should never use user-defined literals in header files. Does that not seem like a glaring problem to anyone else?
 
You can use them in header files if you don't using-namespace them into the global scope.
 
meaning you can only really use them in functions
 
Prrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrretty much I guess?
 
@Prismatic You’re either reading something stupid or reading it wrong.
Do you mean 'use' as in define or call?
 
call
 
6:22 AM
That’s somehow worse.
 
Hi
 
I’m banking on a high likelihood of cargo-cult mentality.
 
Say you have a user defined literal for something common like "weight" between two libraries. You must specify quantities using a common literal _kg in both libraries. You have to write things so that the two are in isolated blocks
 
aka namespacing as usual
wait, common? is this a different topic?
Are we talking about a common literal suffix with two separate UDL ops, or one common UDL op?
 
The former: common suffixes that are different functions in different libraries
 
6:26 AM
righto
pretend that you are handling regular functions, i.e. where 123_kg would be the same as kg(123) and proceed from there
 
my_namespace::operator""_kg( 123 );
Boy, that's clumsy, but maybe that works?
 
that is absolutely horrendous lol
 
I don't know if it works.
 
lets try it
 
found a date for @TonyTheLion
 
6:31 AM
There you go.
Ugly AF but hey, it works.
You should define a function kg_suffix and just call that from the UDL.
That way you don't have to sob so many tears at the syntax.
 
There should be a proposal to allow namespacing on UDLs
123_x::y::kg should be entirely legal syntax.
And would greatly alleviate pains.
@Griwes @AndyProwl Pitch this idea to someone at the con /cc @Morwenn @Potatoswatter
 
Yeah. Its supposed to be nicer to type than functions, not worse
> The general solution is to provide qualified literals; which enables fine-grained selection of the appropriate literal operator. The evolution subcommittee discussed this option, but ultimately did not choose it. Perhaps that choice should be revisited.
 
@Prismatic Fucking idiots.
So they KNEW the problem existed and then said "Nope, we won't."
And what was their reason?
Didn't fucking feel like it.
I fucking hate the committee more and more with every day.
How can be they so fucking dense half the time.
 
might have been some underlying reason that wasn't noted in the proposal
 
6:45 AM
@Prismatic _::X is perfectly unambiguous, the paper mentions a :: syntax but without the leading underscore. They should have combined both solutions.
 
@ThePhD so much anger
 
The leading underscore is for user defined literals not reserved by the standard. I think at the time the page I linked you was written, they hadn't decided that yet
 
@ThePhD Because it's much better to not make decisions that can be made later than to make decisions that cannot be amended later
 
@sehe Because product is shipped and -- how long will the fix take to reach users? Meanwhile, auto x = my_namespace::operator""_fuck ( 123 ); is what we have to write.
 
@ThePhD do you know what the impact is on tokenizing the language? What is it gonna mean for tooling?
@ThePhD don't be ridiculous, of course you don't
 
6:49 AM
@sehe When you have libraries with competing UDLs or want to use your own UDLs in header files without spilling it all over later included code... yes, that's how you have to write it.
 
Only if you insist on using the wrong tool
Remember how we went decades without UDLs. Most language still don't have something like it.
 
Well, sure. Every can just delegate to fuck_suffix function from the _fuck UDL, and use it like that in headers. But the point was for short, sweet suffixes users can use... and the fact that they had a solution in their hands that worked (and had qualified lookup as well) before turning it down without reconsidering makes me salty.
 
UDLs have only ever been a convenience - at best. If it's not convenient, don't use them
Suddenly, a wild @je4d
How are you?
 
@sehe pretty good :)
how's you?
 
Are you at the conference?
 
6:54 AM
yeah
 
@je4d Fine. Looking for job!
 
I just thought I'd drop by to see who else was here
 
@je4d I believe @AndyProwl and... I forget are there too (@Griwes?)
 
@sehe would you consider LN or NY?
 
Nah. Kids. I declined my career path into Singapore for similar reason :)
 
6:55 AM
I want to not do my homework, speedwrite a qualified namespace lookup UDL proposal, and ask AndyProwl nicely to champion it.
 
Calm down. You're not productive when on a high
 
Okay. :c
My python homework s WAY beefier than my C++ homework.
But I'm still gonna overkill the fuck out of it.
 
@elyse Why is this on the star board? Who is the dude?
Morning.
 
@ThePhD that's a fair choice :)
@wilx Don't you see it? Diamonds of poo!
 
@sehe I already went way overboard for the C++ one.
I implemented basic_string_view in it and did lots of char_traits stuff for no other reason but "... sure, why not." I did learn a thing or two about char_traits I didn't know before.
 
6:58 AM
@sehe Oh.
 
I have a hunch it is what you like to do. It's just a good idea to reflect on what is making you so angry while doing it. (I too have my favourite hang-ups and I keep doing them, it's just good to realize it)
 
I didn't fully implement the correct operator << and operator >> for it, though. It depends on the internal pointer to be a c_string.
 
@sehe ah well, I can't be of much help to you there then
 
I need to make a counted-string-output version with all the correct locale and facet stuff. Maybe I'll ask @Rapptz, he became a basic_ostream wizard one day with gears.
 
@je4d I anticipated as much. It was more of a status indication than a request (although, one never knows. I'm NL-based, as you know, but I'd consider remote a role)
 

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