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11:00 PM
who's lemmy and why is he allegedly irreplacable?
 
data UI = UI { uiFont :: Font, rootElement :: ElementNode }

class Element a where
    drawElement :: MonadReader UI m => a -> m [DrawRequest]
@Puppy you've been missing out man. Just google it.
 
user1804599
Lekker, een UI.
 
does UI mean something I don't know in Dutch?
 
oh, just a musician
 
11:09 PM
definitely on the top of my replaceable list.
 
thankfully your list doesn't matter
2
 
I'm not sure why you think so
the guy's dead either way.
my list is no more or less meaningful than yours
 
In the fields of philosophy and æsthetics, the term philistinism describes the social attitude of anti-intellectualism that undervalues and despises art, beauty, spirituality, and intellect; ‘the manners, habits, and character, or mode of thinking of a philistine’. A philistine person is an individual who is smugly narrow of mind and of conventional morality whose materialistic views and tastes indicate a lack of and indifference to cultural and æsthetic values. Since the 19th century, the contemporary denotation of philistinism, as the behaviour of ‘ignorant, ill-behaved persons lacking in culture...
I learned a new word today
Looking for new insults towards you is officially proven to extend one's vocabulary
 
hmm
 
oh wait being philistine is by definition ignorant. Hmm.
 
11:12 PM
assuming that you did not actually find this in another language and lose more than a few somethings in translation, that doesn't remotely apply to me.
 
still, I like it.
@Puppy yeah I can see why you would say that
 
it's pretty objectively not me, I think, considering that I spend literally almost all my time doing nothing but pursuing intellectual challenges.
there's a difference between despising art and beauty, and not finding art and beauty in music.
 
doesn't mean you can't have "a lack of and indifference to cultural and æsthetic values"
 
cultural and aesthetic values?
 
my point exactly.
 
11:14 PM
I have a sense of aesthetics.
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz #freephilistine
 
What are you talking about, again?
 
as for cultural values
 
GUISE, LET"S TALK ABOUT SOMETHING NON-CONTROVERSIAL, LIKE SPACES VS TABS
 
11:15 PM
that's just whining about conformism
oh noes, that dude doesn't have the exact same values as us, let's get him!
 
user1804599
Talking about things that aren't controversial is boring by definition.
 
fuck cultural values.
 
user1804599
You're finished instantly because everybody agrees.
 
most of the time they're nothing useful at all
 
@Puppy what you don't apparently understand is that while he's physically dead, he's leaving a legacy. That's your cultural impact.
It's in hundreds of thousands of human minds.
 
user1804599
11:16 PM
@BartekBanachewicz ONION
 
@Elyse haha
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yes, it's just rather trivial.
 
user1804599
Noun: ui m ‎(plural uien, diminutive uitje n)
  1. onion
  2. ui ‎(plural uit)
  3. ui
  4. ui
Verb: ui
  1. Third-person singular indicative present form of uida., to swim
  2. ui
Interjection: ui!
  1. used to comment on a close call
 
I could name some dudes who had a noticable cultural impact
like James Watt.
 
Hitler
 
11:17 PM
that motherfucker impacted some culture good.
 
user1804599
Mark Zuckerberg
 
This might interest you, @JohanLarsson @CaptainGiraffe (et al.?) alistapart.com/blog/post/difficult-workshop-attendees
 
> A philistine person is an individual who is smugly narrow of mind and of conventional morality
eh
okey I'm bored with mocking you already
 
eh indeed
 
conventional morality?
that certainly doesn't sound like me.
 
11:18 PM
sup sehe
 
:D
 
user1804599
@sehe Alista Part is a nice name.
 
sbi
@Puppy He's most definitely not "just another musician", and for once I find myself agreeing with Bartek: You are being ignorant. (FWIW: I never liked Motörhead.)
 
:toot toot:
 
user1804599
I've seen the guy live once.
 
11:18 PM
just when I was stepping out
 
I think that was on the news. Isn't that Boston?
xD
 
user1804599
He was great.
 
@sbi Did he do anything of note, other than the allegedly notable music?
 
@Elyse One of the examples I meant yesterday:
yesterday, by sehe
@NECIPS The blog, yes. I'm subscribed to quite a few feeds like that
 
user1804599
No idea what you are talking about.
 
11:19 PM
Did Mozart do anything of note other than allegedly notable music?!
Did he???
giggles frantically
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz Haha that pun.
 
you assume that I do not consider Mozart just another musician
 
sbi
@Puppy He made a lot of people rather happy, playing this music. That is something very noteworthy. (Whether he made you and me happy is irrelevant to his legacy.)
 
@sehe the biggest problem I have seen has been lack of skill
 
They've come to the right place then
 
11:20 PM
@sehe hmm
 
When discussing with good/smart people it is usually just fun
 
sbi
@Puppy And that's why you're being called ignorant.
 
@sehe how do you mean?
 
user1804599
People who lack skill are noobs.
 
My professor got back to me.
They didn't even bother looking at the HLSL <-> SPIR-V transpiler idea. q_q
 
11:21 PM
@JohanLarsson They can learn!
 
I've yet to see any particularly notable effects of, indeed, any music.
3
 
@ThePhD rip :(
 
@Puppy Oh oh.
 
@sbi You can feel free to demonstrate or even just state what it is you think I'm missing.
 
@sehe but why didn't they in the 5-20 years they spent programming?
 
11:21 PM
You might start with actually listening to some good music
 
sbi
@Puppy When you're trying to see any effects – have you tried opening your eyes?
 
@JohanLarsson You could ask them
 
@sehe I listen to music I consider good all the time.
 
11:22 PM
@JohanLarsson For one thing, it certainly doesn't help to write them off now, because they could have been more effective in the past
 
@sehe I could ask puffy to ask them
 
clearly everyone else listens to music they consider bad
 
user1804599
I'm addicted to music.
 
@sehe valid point, not very constructive by me
 
@sbi I always consider it to be a non-argument when you can't even state your own position, but just hope that the other person can somehow infer your position.
 
user1804599
11:23 PM
If I don't listen to music for a long time I get nervous and stuffy.
 
Many people hardly listen. Even if they hear music continuously
 
if you can't even state what it is you think I should be considering, it's clearly not worth it.
 
sbi
@Puppy Awareness, knowledge,... Whatever you consider the opposite of ignorance.
 
well, I'm listening to some Mozart right now, and I cannot see how it results in awareness or knowledge.
 
user1804599
INTELLECTUAL
 
sbi
11:24 PM
@Puppy Blinds are not impressed by my inability to explain color to them, but that doesn't mean I am bad at explaining.
5
 
speaking of classics, time for some Haydn
 
user1804599
how do people who've been blind since their birth dream
 
@Elyse in smells and sounds
 
@sbi No, but it does mean it would be pretty stupid of the blind people to accept that color exists without some solid studies on the matter.
 
I think there has been some research that shows they actually activate the visual parts as well
 
user1804599
11:25 PM
> If someone has been totally blind since birth, they only have auditory dreams.
 
how would one describe a color
say, the color red
 
@AlexM. wave
 
what makes red red
 
electromagnetic radiation of a particular wavelength.
 
@AlexM. our receptors react to that particular wavelength
 
11:26 PM
you're not describing the colour though
 
sbi
@Puppy There's no way you can study it when you lack the ability to perceive radiation of the specific spectrum. (And do not give me "technical sensors". A technical sensor will never give you an understanding the beauty of a flower.)
 
@Borgleader RIP indeed. But to perhaps @MarkGarcia's pleasure, the prof did say that they liked the "graphics idea" (where I write an agnostic API that renders to the native graphics UI underneath when compiled/targeted at a specific platform).
 
I think you can do a decent job explaining colors to blind people by associating them with the feelings they evoke
 
there's a very large gap between studying color and electromagnetic radiation, and trying to understand the beauty of a flower.
 
11:28 PM
different colors give you a different state of mind
 
you certainly can study color without eyes, just as we can study X-rays even though they are outside of our visual range.
 
@AlexM. I gave my high school presentation on the color red in art
frankly, I was able to dig to soooo many meanings
 
sbi
@BartekBanachewicz Some blind people developed the ability to "see" the echoes of sounds they make, just like bats. There's a blind turk who paints perspectively correct 3D images.
 
and personally, whilst they would be incapable of finding a flower beautiful, I do not see how this would lead them to any significant loss, intellectual or otherwise.
 
I mean there are the physiological factors, sure, but then there are the social ones which are much harder to describe
 
11:29 PM
They're also interested in the "lua projects", in that I need to explain what they're more about. The goal is to tackle things from a "Software Engineering perspective", which is developer productivity, software quality and reliability.... which I don't know how to make regular software libraries that I'd like to more on more in the "software engineering perspective".
 
user3047181
@sbi any links?
 
I mean, software quality is a thing I guess. Not having C lua spaghetti code all over your project is a thing...
 
@ThePhD So like, Vulkan and DX12?
 
@sbi yeah, brains are pretty fascinating at creating connections between (seemingly) unrelated components.
 
and for the record, I don't believe I have ever considered a flower beautiful, nor do I see what I would stand to gain from such a thing.
 
11:30 PM
well hello
 
sbi
@Puppy Which is exactly my point: Blind people will be unable to understand the visual beauty of a flower. This, however, doesn't mean that flowers aren't beautiful. It just means those people cannot appreciate their beauty. And, as with you, there's no point int trying to explain to them.
 
@sbi But where is this in the C++ standard?
 
@Puppy here they contribute with beauty :P
 
user3047181
@Puppy how? Do you have no concept of beauty in general?
 
that's not true.
 
11:31 PM
 
sbi
@MeltyButter I'd have to google. I am fairly sure I read about it at zeit.de some years ago, but that would be a German article then.
 
@MeltyButter or very limited one.
 
they may not be able to actually see a flower and see that it is beautiful, but as long as they have some sense of aesthetics with one of their senses, it would be simple enough to draw an analogy.
 
that's actually... sad when I think about it
 
sbi
@Puppy I am not surprised. What's your score in tests probing for autism, BTW?
 
11:32 PM
this scene would be much more plain without the flowers hdwallpaperscool.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/…
 
but even if you couldn't draw an analogy, it's simple enough to state that you find the flower beautiful, even if the blind people can't see how.
 
it's probably easier to see the beauty of flowers if you imagine the ugliness of their absence
 
user3047181
@Puppy you mean they're only beautiful if they somehow realize that they're beautiful?
 
@Borgleader Right, except for UI stuff (e.g., "TextBox" becomes CEdit on Windows with MFC, some Gnome thing on Linux, and whatever is the Mac OSX native GUI toolkit thing for a editing text box ends up being).
 
sbi
@Puppy See, some music is like flowers: just beautiful. – Perfect analogy, now you know why we like that music.
 
11:33 PM
@sbi No
 
@sbi I never questioned why you liked it. I simply don't consider producing some good music to be a particularly notable thing, or musicians to be notable people.
 
sbi
@Puppy It's pretty easy to state that Lemmy had quite some cultural impact, even if you (and, again, me) fail to see how.
 
user3047181
@Puppy you think notable only means 'notable to me'?
5
 
@MeltyButter bingo
 
eh
 
sbi
11:34 PM
@Puppy Just as you fail to see how beautiful flowers are a notable thing. Yeah, I did grok that.
 
I would say the same about any of the musicians behind any of the music that I do like.
 
@Puppy Because they miss out on a lot of cultural and social associations with color
 
in fact, I've only really heard one Motorhead song and I did, in fact, like it.
 
@ThePhD Hmm, gl w/ that :)
 
@ThePhD so like Qt
and numerous other "cross platform gui" libraries
 
11:36 PM
@sbi Notable people don't impact culture a little. They replace it with a fundamentally better culture, or contribute things that transcend temporary culture, like mathematics.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Qt doesn't use MFC or whatever underneath: it does it all by itself, which is why it has a distinct "Qt" look no matter which platform you use.
 
@ThePhD So do they just use a graphics API or something
 
sbi
@Puppy Yes, you could. Cultural impact (and thus, notability), however, is measured by how many people say that about someone/something. And this is why your list doesn't matter: You're at the edge of the bell curve. (This isn't necessarily a bad thing. It just means your opinion is culturally rather irrelevant.)
 
user3047181
shouldn't be surprised that a bunch of programming nerds don't understand the meaning of the word beauty :P
 
11:37 PM
@ThePhD provably false.
 
@MeltyButter Even code has beauty
 
@ThePhD Which is annoying actually because the app doesnt look native.
 
@VermillionAzure that's what Java does IIRC
 
@BartekBanachewicz Ahhh that would actually be a lot better I think
But don't people not like that
 
they don't
 
11:37 PM
Right
 
and again Qt doesn't do it
 
sbi
@Puppy Again you're limiting culture to science. Again, I am not surprised. (And I noticed you avoided my question.)
 
@sbi No, that's only awareness of the impact, it doesn't really measure the magnitude of the impact. People may not be aware of the historical figures who invented the first industrial machines, but that doesn't mean those figures didn't impact their culture hardcore.
 
Well maybe it wouldnt be annoying if i actually liked the "Qt look"
 
y'know I thought Qt has some sort of native integration
 
11:38 PM
HTML doesn't do it as well
browsers render e.g. input as native OS components
well used to at least
 
14
Q: Do Qt apps look and feel native under Windows?

jszI’m about to port one of my Mac applications to Windows. The Mac app uses Apple’s native Cocoa/Appkit frameworks for the UI. The UI is Obj-C code, and the core app functionality is portable C++ code. Now I’m looking for a way to port the app to Windows and to make it look and feel native to Wind...

 
user3047181
@VermillionAzure maybe beauty requires that you can appreciate, on a instinctive level, a field of study that is objectively completely foreign to you?
 
Welp looks like they do use some sort of native "thing"
 
you'd notice if we all went back to living in an agrarian society.
 
@MeltyButter "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"
Many things are learned, yes?
Case studies: people who haven't been exposed to language and cannot adjust and learn proper language
 
sbi
11:39 PM
@Puppy Whether people know the inventors' names is irrelevant for cultural impact. Whether those listening to music in a 100 years know that their stars are influenced by specific musicians is irrelevant.
 
@sbi That's because a lot of the time, when you change culture, people just change it back. Science is one of the few things that's here to stay and really adds value to humanity.
 
user3047181
@VermillionAzure the word beauty might as well be meaningless then
 
@MeltyButter Not necessarily. The word "subjective" has meaning with its objective meaning of subjectivity
 
@Borgleader Pilot done, I really like it
Can't believe I haven't taken the plunge sooner
 
sbi
@Puppy No, that's wrong. You're confusing fashion and culture.
 
11:40 PM
Just like morality is decided by society and the majority of exposure
 
user3047181
@VermillionAzure but many would argue that morality is completely objective
 
sbi
@VermillionAzure Yes. And impact means being beautiful in the eyes of many beholders.
 
Did you know that some people cannot perceive the difference between some colors because the word doesn't exist in their language? They don't think it's a different color, but it is
 
cinch detected
 
user3047181
i'd guess that beauty is too
 
11:40 PM
anyway, I have work tomorrow so I must run, but suffice to say, I prefer cultural impacts that actually impact culture in a remotely useful way.
 
Likewise, some people cannot produce different sounds or perceive them because they were not taught to perceive the difference
Such as sh and the Chinese x for native English speakers
 
sbi
@Puppy Again, useful to you.
 
so
sup
 
Or "ch" and "zh" from Chinese, again, for American
@AlexM. hi
 
let's leave the dead rest in peace
 
11:42 PM
@MeltyButter Some people like redheads. Some people don't like gingers
 
user3047181
@VermillionAzure yeah, that's not a genetic difference though? you might as well say racists int he american south cant understand that black people are worth equal right, cos they were taught otherwise?
 
@BartekBanachewicz IIRC, Qt just emulates the OS's functionality as closely as possible, and doesn't really defer to the native controls.
 
@MeltyButter Why do you think it still exists today?
 
sbi
@VermillionAzure I was once told that Merkins have a hard time distinguishing the German "a" from "ä", "o" from "ö", and "u" from "ü".
 
Why do Texans pull funding from Planned Parenthood?
 
user3047181
11:42 PM
because parents have too much power over their children?
 
@MeltyButter Because the world is the power. When your entire world is shaped inside of a circle, how can one dream of something outside of it?
Why do color-blind people cry when they get color-correction glasses?
 
All right, the first part of my paper for pdqsort is done!
 
@ThePhD emulating OS functionality means resorting to native controls
 
Because they see what was not there. It's something truly new
 
@Morwenn @sehe @JerryCoffin @CaptainGiraffe I would love some feedback drive.google.com/…
 
11:44 PM
I may hear, but I may not "understand"
 
sbi
@VermillionAzure They probably only do so in the ads of the companies that sell those glasses.
 
Qt renders its own controls
 
@orlp Cool stuff.
 
user3047181
@VermillionAzure sure, how does that advance your argument that there's no objective truth in morality or beauty?
 
11:45 PM
(that's not feedback)
 
sbi
@VermillionAzure Why does ISIS kill non-believers?
 
@MeltyButter I don't say that there is not an objective world.
 
Fear or need for power
 
sbi
@VermillionAzure I know this.
 
There may be an absolute truth.
But the fact is that we cannot agree on an absolute truth as a majority leaves everything in question in our minds.
There are, however, certain things
There exist female and male humans.
There exists light.
 
sbi
11:46 PM
@MeltyButter Let's just say: There is no objective truth. Ne need to restrict that statement in any way.
 
But even people have disputed bacteria, the planets, the landing on the Moon etc.
 
@BartekBanachewicz They render their own controls and then heavily style them to feel like the originals, but they don't actually hand off the underlying implementation to, say, MFC or Cocoa or whatever the baseline thing is for linux (Gnome, GTK+?)
 
@sbi But even that can be disputed
 
@VermillionAzure I dispute the planet earth
 
Will you argue that you do not exist?
 
11:47 PM
@ThePhD hmm
 
sbi
@VermillionAzure Actually, this is an outdated simplification.
 
@VermillionAzure of course I don't exist
3
 
@sbi No.
 
sbi
@VermillionAzure Yes.
 
TIL that there's an OpenGL ES API-based windowing/GUI system for Linux called Wayland.
 
11:47 PM
well, that's a wrap
 
The fact is that there exist humans with biological differences that have been categorized by us into two separate genders
 
we've reached the peak of the discussion
 
@ThePhD that's kinda old news
 
@BartekBanachewicz vOv I don't scoot around linux land very often.
 
user3047181
@VermillionAzure the fact is that people cannot agree on objective truth, therefore some people are wrong and some people are right... or your cop-out excuse: "we're all idiots, we're all wrong, let's just get along <3"
 
11:48 PM
@MeltyButter I never said that there wasn't an objective truth.
I said that we cannot agree on one. Sometimes.
 
sbi
@VermillionAzure That I agree to. This categorization falls short, though. It's wrong. We know that by now. (Hence "outdated".)
 
Oh wow. This is a thing clergyproject.org
 
@sbi But the physical world exists.
Our perception exists. Or, rather, I can trust that I think. Because I think. Therefore, I am. Whatever.
The first question is whether we can trust ourselves.
 
@sehe wow
so cool
 
@VermillionAzure Isn't that largely a definitions question
 
sbi
11:49 PM
@VermillionAzure It's known since the Greek philosophers that there's no way to proof the world isn't a figment of your imagination.
 
@sehe The fact is that the concept itself exists.
You know of the word and the concept and the thing.
 
user3047181
@VermillionAzure we cant, but the first step towards trying is believing that we can
 
@sbi Yes.
 
this vid led me there https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmPqUkB-mVE
Striking all kinds of chords
 
But what is ultimately useful to live and breathe is to take great assumptions.
Because otherwise we can wish away the world and our hunger and physical needs and die.
 
sbi
11:50 PM
@VermillionAzure You agree? Fine. So the physical world might not exist.
 
@VermillionAzure Nope. It's just hormonic variation. It's not a divide. It's a spectrum. As there are many many variables.
 
@sbi But our perception exists.
 
@sehe I believe he's arguing it exists because some people are misguided into believing it exists.
 
Our thoughts exist.
 
Plato wants out of his cave
 
11:51 PM
I know I think. Because I know.
I think.
 
I'm 14 and this is deep.
 
sbi
@VermillionAzure You only think you think. :)
@orlp Go to bed!
 
user3047181
And so if we assume the natural world exists and can be understood, then therefore there must be an ultimate answer as to what is the best with regards to beauty and morality?
 
@sbi But I think I think means that I can think that I think.
@MeltyButter But can you truly know what is objective? Do not trust the senses and the world if we can argue that it is untrustworthy.
 
user3047181
because 'real' means 'can be understood'?
 
sbi
11:52 PM
Whatever. To get back to where this started: There's no objective truth.
 
@sbi For our effectiveness.
But definitions is where our arguments lie.
 
That's what the announcer at IKEA really wants to say when they say "Little Mark so-and-so wishes to be collected from the playground". It's really his inner Plato decrying the cave
 
Did someone tell Cinch about solipsism or what is happening
 
@sbi you mean, the number I see on my bank account isn't real?
 
sbi
@VermillionAzure Again you try to restrict this. And that's wrong.
 
user3047181
11:53 PM
@sbi nope. then we assumed that there is cause and effect, after that, there could be objective truth
 
@sbi But who are you to decide what is right and wrong for me?
And who am I to push things on you?
 
@VermillionAzure You apply the restriction not-just-for-you
 
What if my concept of right is based on no objective truth? What if my own senses and conclusions and proofs are wrong.
 
@VermillionAzure I am god, and you don't even exist except to me.
 
sbi
@VermillionAzure Oh, it might be totally right for you. Just not for someone else. Hence, subjective.
 
11:54 PM
@sbi Yup.
 
gosh
 
But we can argue such things: Is it better for a man to eat and drink and not starve if our measure of righteousness is that of staving off death?
 
user3047181
@sbi but we can prove what provides satisfaction for organic beings?
 
Is it better for a man to exercise if he needs exercise?
By which measure can we qualify our measurements and arguments?
 
user3047181
@VermillionAzure it's best for a man to maximise happiness? surely we can agree on that
 
11:55 PM
there's also ffrf.org
 
@MeltyButter But the problem is "what is happiness?"
 
If wchar_t and char16_t are the same. (i.e. Windows), is there a standard compliant way to convert between std::u16string and std::wstring that doesn't involve copying? My guess is no.
 
user3047181
a good feeling in the head
 
This is where we may diverge
 
sbi
@MeltyButter When the neurons in their brain's gratification center (whatever that's called in English) fire?
 
11:55 PM
@MeltyButter Which one?
 
user3047181
*the average of all heads, i should say
 
sbi
@VermillionAzure Define "better".
 
user3047181
@sbi yeah
 
@Mysticial define "are the same", both 16 bit?
 
@Mysticial Eehm
 
11:56 PM
@sbi Contentment.
Neutrality.
 
@melak47 Yeah.
 
@Mysticial you could get funky with custom allocators...
 
sbi
@MeltyButter So do these fire when you get an orgasm? Do they fire when a tomcat ejaculates? Do cats have orgasms?
 
I have a function that takes a u16string. But I want to pass in a wstring.
 
sbi
@VermillionAzure I am pretty content not exercising.
 
11:57 PM
@sbi Then that is fine.
 
user3047181
@sbi not sure if cats do, but i've heard that pigs have pretty good ones
 
@Mysticial reinterpret_cast/cowboy_cast
 
But is it okay for me to let you be?
 
@VermillionAzure no it's not
I just told you
I am god
 
What if the objective truth is for me not to?
 
11:57 PM
inb4 utilitarianism
 
@Mysticial because if they're literally the same, then wstring and u16string are by definition the same :p
 
sbi
@набиячлэвэлиь Females?
 
@набиячлэвэлиь That's what I'm tempted to do. But I'm a bit wary of reinterpret casting anything that isn't a POD.
 
@orlp pff you wish
 
So in this train of thought is 1) There is no argumentative objective truth.
 
11:58 PM
@CatPlusPlus SILENT, MORTAL FELINE!
 
sbi
@VermillionAzure But I still need exercise.
 
@Mysticial reinterpret_cast the pointer to said wstring, pointers are PODs
 
@Mysticial are pointers not pod? ;D
 
@orlp I don't think cat is silent
 
@sbi Are you sure? Can I trust your senses to decide for yourself? Can we say that the mentally ill are ill from our perspective? Similar questions. Different answers.
 
11:58 PM
@Mysticial oh, forgot to ping you, finished the first part of my paper for pdqsort and would love some feedback drive.google.com/…
 
sbi
@VermillionAzure You seem to be confused as to what "objective truth" means. If it is true just for you, then it's not objective.
 
In today's episode of Lounge<Philosophy>
I Just Read Wikipedia
 
@CatPlusPlus meh
more like
 
@sbi I can't convince you by the truth because it is not objective in your eyes.
 
Lounge<ChooseYourOwnDefinitions>
 
sbi
11:59 PM
@VermillionAzure Are you drunk? You are now making my points.
 
@CatPlusPlus If only
 
@CatPlusPlus Let's make IJRW a thing
 
Cinch, look up various schools of philosophy. Philosophy is all about this kind of stuff, and guess what? People don't agree
 
@sbi lol
 
@jaggedSpire Yup!
 
11:59 PM
@sbi That's one thing you can stop worrying about
 

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