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user406009
4:01 PM
Bikeshedding gets really annoying really quickly.
 
user406009
People always seem to focus on the completely trivial junk.
 
user1804599
@AndyProwl Allowing void main() would have been the proper solution to the non-problem that was solved by implying return 0;.
 
void mind()
 
@AndyProwl People seem to be against it.
 
Actually I meant in that comic but you guys seem to take this seriously so yeah I agree with you
 
user1804599
4:04 PM
void main instead of return 0; special case is one more reason to prefer D. :^)
 
It's barely a reason for anything at all.
 
Ell
the return type of main should be platform defined imho
 
user1804599
Yes, I agree.
 
user1804599
Also its parameters.
 
Making it legal would be excellent way not to have to explain why it's not legal.
 
Ell
4:05 PM
@Elyse yes
 
@Ell then how do I write a portable program?
 
Ell
@LucDanton I'm not sure
I need time to think about that one
 
user1804599
Different main function for each platform you want to support.
 
Ell
yeah something like that
 
user1804599
4:09 PM
You can't have one signature that works for everything as not all platforms offer the same set of features.
 
user1804599
Web browsers, for example, don't pass command line arguments.
 
Best practice: void Foo(const Bar& bar); vs void Foo(const Bar &bar); ?
 
user1804599
Best practice: no bikeshedding.
2
 
Best practice: reading the rules.
 
Best practice: botany.
 
4:10 PM
@Elyse this
 
@Morwenn Yeah. Why
 
user1804599
@Mr.kbok this
 
@mash you have many, many other things to worry about.
 
@mash Lounge prefers void Foo(void* bar);
 
@ElimGarak I'm not writing C
 
user1804599
4:12 PM
auto FUBAR(auto auto) -> decltype([auto] (auto) -> auto { auto });
 
@mash his code is perfectly valid C++
 
@mash You not man enough?
 
@Columbo I don't know, language-lawyer things is often what I find boring and I prefer not to have to deal with .____.
 
@Morwenn I'm lovin' it
 
@ScarletAmaranth but it's C-Style even though it's valid C++
 
user1804599
4:12 PM
@ScarletAmaranth depends on what the Foo and bar macros expand to!
 
@mash I can't see your point
 
user1804599
lol, "Jihadi John" is trending on Twitter
 
@ScarletAmaranth My point is: raw pointers are evil
 
@mash no they are not
 
@mash No, they're not.
 
4:14 PM
the type erasure in it is perhaps somewhat evil, but raw pointers as observers are perfectly valid
 
(We're just having some fun with you, welcome to the Lounge)
 
^ you ruined everything
 
welcome to the jungle
 
but guys
is MFC required or not? in the end
 
4:15 PM
about as required as JQuery
 
Someone gonna come here and actually believe that what you guys wrote is considered good
 
@mash who, the fuck, cares
@mash no
@mash oh no what will we do then
 
Ell
@mash only "owning" raw pointers are evil
 
@mash Non-owning raw pointers are fine. Oops--beaten to the punch. Cheers @Ell.
 
yeah I think we need to tell him 56 more times
 
4:17 PM
we do
 
@BartekBanachewicz we'll look at open source C++ projects and notice that they write shitty code because of you guys. :/
 
yeah because of us
 
@mash no, they write shitty code because shitty people write them
 
It's all the Lounge's fault. It's true.
 
also I expect your code to be of pristine quality then
 
4:17 PM
nobody mentioned that cooked pointers are actually ok so here's my contribution
 
I recently made a model of an electrical plug in Blender. Not relevant here, but I thought I should share that.
 
@Morwenn Oh, sorry! That was your question I answered, totally missed it
 
@ElimGarak Let's be more specific. It's my fault.
 
@JerryCoffin can confirm; I saw you do it
 
The setter insists on resting his face on my keyboard.
 
4:18 PM
it’s okay to use raw pointers because of the garbage collector
 
Yeah, but don't use raw pointers if telkitty isn't around.
 
Back to my awesome question. I always thought that the first example is best practice but I saw some people using it the other way and I think people might confuse it with the address of operator but I'm not sure what's the actual best practice so I came here to ask.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I think "shitty people" is like 7.8 magnitude on a DeadMG scale
 
Parkinson's law of triviality, also known as bikeshedding, bike-shed effect, and the bicycle-shed example, is C. Northcote Parkinson's 1957 argument that organisations give disproportionate weight to trivial issues. Parkinson observed and illustrated that a committee whose job was to approve plans for a nuclear power plant spent the majority of its time on discussions about relatively trivial and unimportant but easy-to-grasp issues, such as what materials to use for the staff bike-shed, while neglecting the non-trivial proposed design of the nuclear power plant itself, which is far more important...
 
9 mins ago, by Elyse
Best practice: no bikeshedding.
 
4:19 PM
@mash what?
 
> Parkinson's law of triviality, also known as bikeshedding, bike-shed effect, and the bicycle-shed example, is C.
lol
 
10 mins ago, by mash
Best practice: void Foo(const Bar& bar); vs void Foo(const Bar &bar); ?
 
4 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
@mash who, the fuck, cares
 
use const Ba *bar
 
@AlexM. Yeah, love that :D
 
4:20 PM
it's utterly irrelevant
 
@BartekBanachewicz Readability, Style and in the end I care.
 
@mash It's a matter of taste. I prefer auto foo(Bar const& bar) -> void.
 
@mash it doesn't impact readability at all
and style is utterly irrelevant
 
auto foo(auto const& bar) -> decltype(std::declval<void>())
 
shouldn't it be void_t
 
4:21 PM
@mash If someone can confuse it for address of, he needs to take up botany.
 
user406009
I don't even think you can use auto as a parameter?
 
don't think declval<void> would work
 
@BartekBanachewicz Everything that's non-consistent in a projects source code bugs me.
 
oh god
alright, let's grow my plonklist
 
@mash then flip a coin
 
4:22 PM
@Lalaland you can with concepts TS
 
user406009
Does someone still have that picture album of minor inconsistencies?
 
Does treating empty and missing xml elements as equal make sense?
 
@Lalaland valid in lambdas!
 
soon valid in regular function (templates) too
 
soon aka 2024
 
4:22 PM
I think GCC already implements it
with bugs
 
but it sort of supports it
 
what is a void& good for?
 
@JohanLarsson no because they're not equal. Except in your case an empty xml element equals to a missing one.
 
for summoning demons
 
4:23 PM
@melak47 absolutely nothing
 
@melak47 same as a void* but not null
 
user406009
@melak47 Generic code.
 
sorry, song got to me.
 
:D
 
what is void
 
4:23 PM
sadly you can't have void[]
 
Genetic code
 
baby don't hurt me?
 
void. void never changes.
 
@mash I'm thinking XmlAssert.Equal(e, a, XmlAssertOptions.TreatEmptyAndMissingAsEqual);
 
except for when it does
 
4:23 PM
yeah
 
user406009
@milleniumbug There was a proposal to allow that.
 
void is constexpr
 
user406009
So sad it was shot down.
 
@AlexM it's a space where you can go to and meat hackers.
 
int changeVoid(void) { return 42; }
 
4:24 PM
@mash I like only Lounge meat.
 
how is constaxpr formed
 
@AndyProwl has the stalker ceased her activity?
 
Also, MasterRace const&.
 
^ this
state the type, then qualify
 
@ScarletAmaranth Sort of, but then she started it again
 
4:25 PM
@AndyProwl so that's a "no" :D
 
Guys, do you like magic tricks, like card tricks, mentalism, etc?
 
@ScarletAmaranth :P well, yeah
 
@JacquesMarais I like when stuff works after I restart Visual Studio.
 
@ElimGarak like that ever happens
 
user406009
4:26 PM
@ElimGarak The best magic trick of them all.
 
@JacquesMarais I wish I knew the secrets of metabolism right about now
 
mentabolism
 
@ElimGarak or when linking errors disappear after a clean+rebuild all
 
^ you're doing something wrong
 
or when it's Friday and nobody dumps links to rebecca.blackfriday
3
 
4:28 PM
@AndyProwl Oh, we've covered that in the 00:00 - 06:00 window.
 
user406009
@AndyProwl You should have made that link to a rick roll.
 
@ElimGarak yeah, I noticed
I just couldn't help
"if they can do it, I can do it too"
I'm a very mature man
 
I even tried to mix it up with Justin Bieber, but @EtiennedeMartel is a big fan and he doesn't want us to throw him in the same bucket as Rebecca Black. </3
 
how can anyone be a big fan of Justin Bieber
 
Fun fact: Justin Bieber is Canadian.
 
4:30 PM
I'd just deport myself
 
There's nothing particularly terrible about Justin Bieber
 
I like how he's looking at him: "Dear lord..."
 
People just like to hate on him because other people do too
 
fail
 
4:31 PM
annoying voice is annoying enough
 
Failed parsing. ahahah
 
Same shit as the Nickelback hate
 
someone should ban fridays in the lounge.
 
user406009
NIckelback isn't actually that bad.
 
Total fail!
 
4:31 PM
lol
 
Jerry swoops in for the kill.
 
ban, not bin :p
 
@melak47 I believe in giving people some warning. Not much, but a little...
 
@mash void foo(some_namespace::bar const& actually_userful_name);
 
@Jefery Well, with the fact that he spits on people and even may use drugs, then yes, there's nothing bad about him....
(Sarcastic)
 
4:33 PM
oh noes
not the drugs
 
druges
 
bruges
 
a pop star is using drugs? well i never
 
4:34 PM
@Jefery great so the two who answered so far prefer the first version too. By the way "userful" name.
 
@AndyProwl Hmm...interesting question: Will I ever get to visit Bruges again, now that I'm married?
 
@JacquesMarais I love drugs.
 
@ElimGarak creative
 
@ElimGarak Oh, good for you
 
@JacquesMarais Thanks, you should shoot some up your ass as well.
 
4:35 PM
@JerryCoffin I have never been there but I guess there's better places to miss
 
Woah
 
@ElimGarak I don't feel like it..
 
@ElimGarak double the pleasure indeed!
 
> userful
 
Ell
@JerryCoffin C'mon jerry - you're usually faster than that! Are you getting old or something? :P
 
4:36 PM
@ElimGarak I wish you a happy short life, filled with drugs..
 
the high horse is high on this one
 
@Ell Getting old? I just wish I was still only getting old.
 
@JacquesMarais Man, I am high on Mentats, Buffout, Psycho and Jet right now, I can't see a word you're writing.
 
shut up elim
you barely drink alcohol
 
(Fallout drugs)
 
4:38 PM
your not as edgy as me
 
user3790646
@JacquesMarais Are you Cicada?
 
> I am Jacques Marais, a good programmer of 13 years old. If you think I can't be a good programmer because I am just 13 years old, think again. I do JavaScript, PHP, C++, HTML, CSS and Python. I also do jQuery, but as it is a JavaScript library it still falls under JavaScript.
 
> I am Jacques Marais, a good programmer of 13 years old
doubt its Cicada
 
Cicada??
 
> I also do jQuery, but as it is a JavaScript library it still falls under JavaScript.
 
4:39 PM
-1 not enough jQuery
 
Who/what is Cicada?
 
@JacquesMarais Your website is down :c
 
I know..
 
@ElimGarak Also nice. You are really polyglot. Keep up the good work. :)
 
I use free web hoting :P
hosting*
 
4:40 PM
I get hot on the internet for free, too.
 
@JacquesMarais you can edit your messages (up arrow)
 
@milleniumbug ...for a couple minutes.
 
I know, just not feeling like moving my finger to the up button now...
 
Ah, Jerry loves to edit until the time is up. :D
 
@ElimGarak I need to build a house for these or something
 
user3790646
4:42 PM
@JacquesMarais Well, he really means up 'arrow' button...
 
I know..
 
@ElimGarak It's not that I like to. Just that I'm such a lousy typist, I have to for anybody to have a chance at understanding anything I've written.
 
2015 game with 2010 graphics
 
@melak47 You're such a hoarder. :D Have you reached the awesomeness that is the Institute? :D
@Jefery We're lucky it doesn't look like Oblivion. :P
 
@ElimGarak no, but bunches of synths. I'm swimming in fusion cells :3
 
user3790646
4:43 PM
 
@melak47 How's the drop rate on your side? I only get like 8 fusion cells per synth. And it takes 25 to take one out. But then again, my luck is 1. Intelligence and charisma 10.
 
user3790646
Is that code obfuscation?
 
@JacquesMarais So you consider it better to waste our time than take half a second to do the job right?
 
user3790646
> self baking
 
@ElimGarak I left the difficulty at normal, so maybe it's different for me
 
4:45 PM
@JerryCoffin Yes, that's what I meant.
 
@melak47 Luck modifies your drop rate, according to the game. Maybe that's why. I will create my next character with Intelligence 1 and Luck 10.
Lucky and strong. Hulk smash.
 
I started out with fives across the board
 
@JacquesMarais I'll give you a minute to consider the error of your ways.
 
Well, you had to make some cutbacks somewhere, 28 points to be distributed across 7 attributes. :/ It's a bit tight.
 
guess I started with 4 in everything.
feels like it was centuries ago :p
 
4:48 PM
@JerryCoffin I was just joking?..
 
after my first encounter with synths I went from <100 fusion cells to >1000
I can't carry all the crap the game is dropping on me :S
 
Goddamn difficulty settings. :( And I don't want to be a wuss now.
 
what are you playing on, Survival?
while I wasn't looking, this moved in...
 
@JacquesMarais Fair enough.
 
Yeah, according to the game, it only modifies the appearance of legendary enemies and stuff. Probably my luck being 1 is the issue, basically, shit out of luck.
 
4:51 PM
@melak47 What game is that?
 
I like how you also changed the HUD to blue. :D I changed my pipboy as well, so I can have a blue flashlight when holding tab.
 
@melak47 I've heard of raining cats and dogs, but I think cows would be a first (at least for me).
 
@ElimGarak blue is cool. :)
 
Brahmin. A cow with two heads, mutated after the nuclear war (plus some help from FEV)
 
@JacquesMarais Fallout 4
 
4:53 PM
Oh
 
Far field rendering is pretty much shit. Those LOD boxes.
 
@ElimGarak is there any way to craft power armor pieces of a particular set?
 
@melak47 No idea, I am kinda annoyed by the power armor because my character is really cool and I can't see him from the suit. And it gets wrecked way too easily.
 
@ElimGarak ...even with tons of smoke to try to hide any far-field existing at all.
 
I like putting on clothes, then armor, then the power armor skeleton, then the power armor pieces. :D
winter is coming. gotta dress like an onion, you know.
 
4:57 PM
I started trading on margin right as the market went to shit
gg
 
If you take a look at the freeway on the left, the LOD mesh for it is made out of planar surfaces which are not closed and alpha transparency is used to create the illusion of the actual green bulkheads. But on the other side, because of backface culling, there is nothing.
 
I hope someone mods some improved inventory interface like for skyrim. I'm hoarding so much crap in my base, it's too big too fail...I'll never want to start scrapping or selling it.
 
@ElimGarak Here's my guess: they decided since you're only running it at 1080, you're blind, stupid, or just don't care about quality.
 
lol
 
@melak47 Fallout's big problem is that it made everything valuable, even the junk. And I am really concerned about selling stuff. Especially as the storyline later on requires me to build stuff. Not a spoiler, just a hoarding suggestion.
 
5:01 PM
the problem is to craft equiptment, I have to find and use/scrap the stuff again :(
 
@melak47 Have you returned to Vault 111 for that laser rifle in the locked casing?
 
no, but I crossed level 18 recently, so I should finally be able to unlock the lockpicking skill required :D
 
The load times are atrocious, as well. Pumping more geometry into what is basically a 2002 engine. I cannot even imagine how it would be like without an SSD.
 
they tricked me with the intro, where the house had actual glass windows...
 
@ElimGarak I want a machine with a couple terabytes of DDR 4 DRAM (battery backed, of course).
 
5:04 PM
@ElimGarak What iz dis gam
 
and a big emergency power supply? :)
@Borgleader srsly?
 
@Borgleader FO4 :D
 
what game has he been talking about recently :pp
 
@melak47 Big UPS. When/if truly necessary, copy it all back to an array of SSDs.
 
Even with such memory, it would take Fallout 20 seconds load back into the open world. :'/
Their world streaming approach is probably at the level of a high school kid dabbling in game dev.
 
5:08 PM
@ElimGarak Meh =/
Nov 10 at 0:05, by Borgleader
@ElimGarak Fuck Fallout 4 I want this:
 
Andromeda <3 However, I am hoping that the Battlefield intended engine is up to the task. They're promising a lot and I don't see it without a shitload of transition areas.
 
@ElimGarak Designed by the masterful and amazing Mike Acton, perhaps?
 
My new laptop has a better video card than my 8-core desktop.
I should probably try using it at some point.
 
Hey @Mystical, could you open the start menu and press Alt+Tab?
 
@Mysticial That would be as far out of character as clicking on your recent rep button.
 
5:10 PM
It shows me 3 ghost processes
 
@ElimGarak was ok in dragon age I think
 
Wondering if that's a Win10 thing
 
@набиячлэвэлиь I'm not at home right now.
 
@melak47 Yeah, but Dragon Age was land based and still had transitions and weird traversals via map clicking and stuff. Mass Effect is supposed to have planets, starships, spacestations etc. And they're amping up the return of the Mako.
 
@набиячлэвэлиь You've obviously implemented the Ghost Protocol incorrectly.
 
5:13 PM
@ElimGarak just make the ground invisible. same thing as space!
 
@Mysticial Could you, please, consider doing that when you get back home?
This video is not available in your country.
Sorry about that.
 
@набиячлэвэлиь If I remember to.
 
@набиячлэвэлиь Yay GEMA!
 
I like how Fallout 4 quests in these skyscraper thingies all have roof access where you can "admire" the vista. If that were my game, I would collapse all roof entrances so that nobody witnesses that atrocity. "Yeah, listen, the bombs fell and there's spiders up there and radioactive materials... Don't go there."
 
@Mysticial Cheers
@ElimGarak kek
 
5:15 PM
@ElimGarak Perhaps that's why they're shipping a game, and you're not? :-)
 
@JerryCoffin :D
 
oh i just remembered mystical doesn't read his notifications
 
I am wondering whether they crossed the $1B mark yet. It took Skyrim a week to reach $600M.
 
user406009
@ElimGarak Do you think all the complaints about Fallout 4 are accurate?
 
user406009
To me, it just seems like people had overhyped expectations.
 
user406009
5:18 PM
Bethesda put out a decent game, but people expected perfection.
 
The game is good, but it is the same game they've been putting out since Morrowind. Always fun to play, but it is starting to show its age (not just visually). And the things they did change were mostly not for the better (the dialogue system that caters to consoles). Dialogue checkpoints are yellow/orange/red with no indication whether you can pass it and you can reload a save and try again to succeed.
 
user406009
I just think that the 5/10 average user score is just ridiculous (metacritic.com/game/pc/fallout-4)
 
Oh, ignore the user reviews. Those are either 10/10 or 1/10. I think this review is one of the more realistic ones.
 
www.coli.ru
 
lol, www.
 
5:24 PM
I thought F3 was meh
 
user406009
@ElimGarak We all know really hip people use www.www.www. nowadays.
 
> Players are asked to make important alliances based on their moral outlook on these synths (as they're called) but the characters are so thinly-written, and our attachment to them so mercenary that I suspect most people will opt for the convenient route, even when Fallout 4 tries to guilt them into doing otherwise. The writers just don't give me a valid reason not to join the faction with airships and power armor.
 
like, "more of the same" from bethsoft
 
user406009
But Bethsoft doesn't really have any competition in this genre.
 
Although, on my side, I am kinda leaning towards the Institute.
 
user406009
5:25 PM
No one else creates these sort of open world RPGs.
 
Yeah, Bethesda went all-in-or-bankruptcy with Morrowind and it saved their asses. And since then, they've been comfortable with shoveling $200M into a title. For people with mad abilities, knowledge and honed skill even with those resources, it is hell of a gamble.
 
user406009
I assume these games are expensive as fuck to make?
 
user406009
With all that content?
 
Yup, Witcher 3 was one of the cheapest ever, clocking in at ~$85M.
 
user3790646
@ElimGarak Very cheap indeed
 
5:28 PM
Putting down the money is not really the issue, even if you make an amazing game, it might just get unnoticed because there is a river of shit flowing around drowning everything, especially with all the retards with access to Unity and Unreal and whatnot today. Without hardcore marketing, it's problematic.
 
> river of shit flowing around drowning everything
2
 
W3 best game this year
 
^^ That right there is a game.
 
user3790646
@Borgleader Not the best game ever though.
 
user3790646
this is the best game ever, based in my opinion :P
 
user3790646
5:30 PM
 
@Andrey I liked W3 better than Skyrim :)
 
@Andrey So, where's your Steam icon?
 
but its a strong competitor
@ElimGarak He renamed it to Bitorrent, its on the left column
 
user3790646
@Borgleader Yes.
 
user3790646
@ElimGarak Found it.
 
user3790646
5:35 PM
 
user406009
@Mysticial Software development in a nutshell.
 
watž
 
5:52 PM
@Columbo Why?
 
@melak47 So, I befriended the Railroad, the Institute and Brotherhood... And I am free to walk around in the middle of a battlefield with them hashing it out.
 
lol
 
But my actions seem to be aligning me with the Institute.
 
Is the Institute analogous to the Enclave?
 
The Institute was formed by the scientists from MIT who survived the war. Well, in the game the US was rearranged into Commonwealths, so MIT became CIT.
 
6:03 PM
CLIT
 
They're getting desperate:
-14
Q: No one is answering to my ques

Suyash GuptaNo body is answering my question and I really need an answer. I asked same question two times but no one is giving answer. this is my ques: Turn on GPS on rooted device through a broadcast receiver My mistakes are being corrected every time but there's no one who can bother to answer my questio...

 
@GregorMcGregor I have full explo on all four new jungle maps, in just about three weeks. Should give you an idea of the scope of the expansion.
 
@Mysticial -14 haha rekt
@LucDanton But is it fun?
 
-12
Q: HOW TO USE INNER JOIN SQL ECLIPSE

Santos NatalinoHOW TO SAVE IN 2 TABLES IN THE SAME TIME USING JAVA?

 
You should fix your keyboard first, because you can't write a correct Java program when your caps lock key is stuck. — a_horse_with_no_name 21 hours ago
5
rekt
 
6:12 PM
@Jefery Bosses with bent dicks might get offended
 
@Columbo Bosses (by definition) have limp dicks. Oh, and yes, when this position gets filled, that will apparently include me...
 
> Candidates must be a US Citizen without dual citizenship.
wow serious business
 
@milleniumbug Yeah--I'm not involved in it (at all), but part of the company does some sort of stuff for the US gov't, so the whole company has to follow their rules.
 
@ElimGarak whoa, that cryo gun sure is effective
 
6:50 PM
 
user1804599
What are the correct indentation settings for Vim?
 
what the fuck
 
@EtiennedeMartel wut
 
I compiled the program
and it worked
on. first. try.
with C++
what the fuck is going on
 

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