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8:03 AM
@sehe Standard-wise, the compiler has as much latitude for trivial operations as it does non-trivial ones when it comes to optimization. Practically speaking, I have no clue how much of a difference it does (have you?).
What I wanted to drive at is that if a type needs to allocate memory, poll /dev/cdrom, and make a system call to wget boost.org upon construction then so be it. I’ve never cared for triviality when it comes to general purpose and I’m genuinely curious who does.
@Pris I don’t know whether you are a beginner or not, what you intend to do with C++ now or in the future, but have you considered that you may not need to use std::function<Sig> at all? (It all depends on how comfortable you are writing function and class templates though.)
 
user1804599
@Feeds help what is a p-value
 
1 hour ago, by chmod 711 telkitty
In statistics, the p-value is a function of the observed sample results (a statistic) that is used for testing a statistical hypothesis. Before performing the test a threshold value is chosen, called the significance level of the test, traditionally 5% or 1% and denoted as α. If the p-value is equal or smaller than the significance level (α), it suggests that the observed data are inconsistent with the assumption that the null hypothesis is true, and thus that hypothesis must be rejected and the alternative hypothesis is accepted as true. When the p-value is calculated correctly, such a test is...
this is why you should go to school
2
 
user1804599
8:20 AM
@E_net4 it's just a bunch of implicit std::shared_ptrs and std::weak_ptrs.
 
user1804599
It's also exception-safe unlike manual retain and release.
 
user1804599
Non-weak cycles even leak. :D
 
@LucDanton Are you saying has_trivial_constructor is a useless traits? In that case (a) I didn't know (b) don't shoot me - I can't help that :)
I used it to indicate a constructor that does (significant) work. I will refrain from using the word until I have fully researched the topic. o.O
 
@sehe Triviality is typically useful for things like interop/binary compatibility. The trait can come in handy for the former.
@sehe struct non_trivial { non_trivial(); }; non_trivial::non_trivial() = default;
 
@Mysticial re-open votes
 
8:29 AM
E.g. trivially copyable is what you need for memcpy.
 
user1804599
change topic :(
 
@рытфолд in other news, nyc and boston are gonna get slammed by snow
 
user1804599
I mean the room topic.
 
i heard up to 5'... any of you unlucky enough to have to deal with it?
 
user1804599
I don't care about NYC.
 
8:36 AM
wow
 
user1804599
In Boston they can just bomb away the snow.
 
w o w
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: do not enter [c++] [c++11] [c++14] [c++-faq]
 
@рытфолд I was typing that
 
user1804599
Me too.
 
user1804599
8:37 AM
But I was quicker.
 
You always are
 
@sehe Consider that a 'dummy' copy constructor such as foo(foo const&) {} performs 'less' work than the trivial copy constructor, assuming that default initializing the members is less work than copying them. (Which is sort of a useless assumption to make, although it may be an accurate empirical observation.)
 
user1804599
quickfold
 
user1804599
always right, always quick
 
What's up with your nick in communist alphabet though
 
8:39 AM
@MartinJames say, what's your opinion on Guildford? As in for seriously considering moving there?
 
@thecoshman Have you played Guildford 2 /cc @Cat
 
@thecoshman What's your interest in Guildford?
 
@thecoshman I've no opinion on Guildford. Not stayed there.
 
@TonyTheLion there's a Ericsson site there... looks like a nice enough location... internal transfer shouldn't be too hard.
Then it's relatively easy to hop to next job once I'm back in UK
 
user1804599
Do you like working at Ericsson?
 
8:42 AM
@TonyTheLion ¬_¬ why so defensive?e
 
@thecoshman an Ericsson.
 
user1804599
You don't do defensive programming at Ericsson.
 
@рытфолд yes and no. Parts I like, parts I don't.
 
user1804599
That's clearly the case.
 
8:44 AM
I want to head back to UK, an internal transfer seems smart, I can move knowing I have a job there.
 
user1804599
You are already in the UK AKA GB AKA England.
 
@Mysticial Heh.
 
@рытфолд The fact I'm not has something to say about that.
 
user1804599
WHERE ARE YOU
 
ROI
hint: the non UK part
 
8:46 AM
@рытфолд The AKA operator is wrong there, IMHO. Or is it not?
 
user1804599
That's also the UK AKA GB AKA England.
 
user1804599
That whole composition of islands is the UK AKA GB AKA England.
 
@wilx it's fine if you're shit stupid
 
user1804599
your
 
user1804599
:D
 
8:46 AM
your
C:
 
@рытфолд no, it's not.
 
@wilx it won't help, he's just an arse
 
@thecoshman OK. :)
 
8:48 AM
I thought that we us as programmers would be especially unlikely to make such mistake because detail is everything in programming...?
 
us* as programmers
 
@LucDanton Ah. I see your point now. The non-trivial ctor might be less expensive. Excellent point. I see now that my sketchy use of the term was not correct
 
@sehe even if you disregard data members? :P
 
@thecoshman oh nice
@thecoshman Wasn't supposed to be defensive, just curious
 
@ArneMertz ≤
 
8:52 AM
@wilx You know I was kidding right
 
@TonyTheLion thought you were getting worried I tracked down and leaked your location.
though not sure what they do at the Guildford site...
 
@AMostMajestuousCapybara No, I do not. I am not a native English speaker. It is entirely conceivable that us is right and we was wrong. Did you just pull my leg or is us actually better there?
 
@wilx It's we
 
facepalm
 
@thecoshman hahaha
 
8:54 AM
That was mean, @AMostMajestuousCapybara.
 
@thecoshman would be cool though if you lived in the UK, we could go out for a beer more often :)
 
lol cosh wanna the world 2 know where tony lives
 
@wilx "we programmers" "we, as programmers," "us, as programmers," AFAIK
@wilx welcome to my world ¬_¬
 
UK is kind of not small, unless living in the same area, you wouldn't be meeting up for a beer often
 
capybara? for realz?
 
9:01 AM
like some of my friends & I, in the same city, yet only meeting up once a month or so
because half an hour drive away on average
 
@BartekBanachewicz Is there a capyproblem?
 
...♫ because I'm capy ♪...
@AMostMajestuousCapybara none at all
 
@chmod711telkitty half an hour driving prevents you from seeing your friends more often? oO
 
@chmod711telkitty I have a friend that lives 45 mins from me, and I see them up to twice a week at times
so, no its not really an issue
 
it's funny how you measure distance in time
 
9:08 AM
I have no friend that lives less than 30 mins from me.
 
incidentally, I've just realized that 911 996 is much cheaper than I thought
 
@BartekBanachewicz in that case, distance in kilometers or miles does not matter much since it's about how long it takes you to get there. 10km in flat land is not comparable to 10km across the city.
 
@ArneMertz That's what she said
 
@ArneMertz :D
 
9:11 AM
@BartekBanachewicz not really. Would travel only 5 meters to the shops if it took you (for what ever reason) three days to get there, or would you go the shop 1000km away if you could get there in mere seconds for the same price.
 
consider there are 4-5 weekends in a month, I would average spend a weekend every month with the bushwalking group, 3 weekends with 3 different friends & sometimes a weekend not seeing anyone
 
life is hard!
a weekend not seeing anyone!
horrendous!
 
In today's world, distance matters not, it's time that is the problem
stop time people!
 
You're basically asking "can an mpl map be used to have runtime effect"? Well, obviously. My question would be: why (since it doesn't seem more expressive, more maintainable... ?) — sehe 2 hours ago
People ask the darndest questions in
 
> I think a 3.2 will feel more like a Sports car even when you are driving it normally, unlike the 1.8 which will have to be driven like you stole it
lmao
 
9:15 AM
@thecoshman it's both the same: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime
 
You are cousins, twice removed?
 
@ArneMertz sure, but if you can stop time, distances become moot
 
@thecoshman meh. In practice it's speed that's the limited factor, not the distance
at least on longer routes
because you can get into the air and fly a straight line
 
user1804599
@chmod711telkitty if school doesn't teach me that then going to school will not help at all.
 
user1804599
9:21 AM
Secondly, I have to make a compromise between being suicidal and knowing what p-values are, and being happy and not knowing what p-values are, and I'll definitely go with the latter.
 
@BartekBanachewicz which is what I initially said when you questioned people talking about the time it takes to get places.
¬_¬ another one for plonk list
2
 
@thecoshman wut
 
user1804599
Maybe I'll go with D-like scope instead of finally.
 
user1804599
It's more flexible in that it allows separate handling for normal exits and exception exits.
 
@BartekBanachewicz not in the mood for tolerating another moronic troll
 
9:28 AM
@thecoshman "another"?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Hi
 
@рытфолд as in the Java 'this is totes a constant' finally?
 
@AMostMajestuousCapybara he's a tad slow isn't he
 
@BartekBanachewicz yes... I have already plonked at least one person for such annoying behaviour, so this addition is 'another' one
 
@thecoshman who was that person, if I may ask?
 
user1804599
9:29 AM
@thecoshman finally, not final.
 
user1804599
final is let.
 
user1804599
non-final is let mutable.
 
@рытфолд learned that in the first year uni maths
it's called introductory discrete maths or just statistics
 
@chmod711telkitty Or you can learn the stuff in another language than english...
 
inb4 "why would anyone need another language than english??"
 
9:36 AM
@AMostMajestuousCapybara Yeah of course!
 
@рытфолд ooh right, that old chestnut.
how does the d-like scope differ from finally?
because I do like the idea of finally blocks.
 
user1804599
It doesn't belong to try and you can make it run only on successful or unsuccessful exits.
 
user1804599
E.g.
 
@thecoshman riteupoldeu loves all d-like stuff, you know
 
user1804599
void main() {
    scope(success) foo();
    scope(failure) bar();
    scope(exit) baz();
    qux();
}
 
user1804599
9:40 AM
If qux returns, it runs foo() and baz(). If qux throws it will run bar() and baz().
 
looks ugly to me
but I do like the clear way you can have foo() executed if qux() doesn't throw
but I think it's easy enough to get that effect if you want...
 
user1804599
I don't like finally being below try.
 
user1804599
Often you want let foo = bar(); try { ... } finally { x(foo); }.
 
user1804599
It'd be nicer if x(foo); were closer to the definition of foo.
 
something like doRisky(fn executThis, fn onSuccess, fn onFailure, fn always)
@рытфолд can't say I agree with that.
It's usually something in the try block that I want to value of. The finally is just a last ditched recovery.
perhaps that raw ugly exception handling should be hidden in a function that returns an optional
 
9:57 AM
@thecoshman not in the moot?
 
@sehe Your humoot will not pass
 
> This power is available well below the engine's power peak and so the ideal cruising gear is an overdrive gear, a ratio higher than that for absolute top speed
TIL
 
@рытфолд How do you access local variables in foo(), bar() or baz()?
 
user1804599
You can't.
 
user1804599
Instead, you pass them to those functions.
 
user1804599
10:07 AM
void main() {
    int x = 0;
    scope(success) foo(x);
    scope(failure) bar(x);
    scope(exit) baz(x);
    qux();
}
 
user1804599
Like with RAII, they're executed in FILO order, so there's no lifetime issue here.
 
You should have nested functions.
 
@рытфолд that does have the wiff of global state though...
 
user1804599
Why?
 
user1804599
I don't understand either of you.
 
user1804599
10:12 AM
What do nested functions have to do with scope guards?
 
user1804599
What does global state have to do with scope guards?
 
@рытфолд Having to pass the parameters to the guard functions is rather huge nuisance.
 
user1804599
You don't have to.
 
Nested functions solve that as they can access locals.
 
user1804599
You can do this just fine:
 
10:14 AM
Also, I want to see somebody implement static link.
 
user1804599
scope(success) {
    // blablabla
}
 
@рытфолд Ah. OK. Your first example suggested it was only function calls that could be there.
 
user1804599
Even if only function calls could be there, you could use an IIFE:
 
user1804599
scope(success) (() => {
    // blablabla
})();
 
@FredOverflow told myself I'll watch it at work
mono sound
brain got damaged after 10 seconds
 
10:33 AM
@AMostMajestuousCapybara I like what you've done to your hair
 
meanwhile in Ukraine -
 
user1804599
> ObjAt.new
[1]    15292 segmentation fault  perl6
 
user1804599
top kek
 
@Abyx starts at 2:45
 
@Abyx needs age verification ...
 
10:44 AM
@chmod711telkitty no, why?
 
@chmod711telkitty login. it's for good reason (SFW, NSFL)
@Abyx yes:
@Abyx saw that late
@Abyx that's pretty gruesome
I can't make heads or tails of the comments - even with google translate :(
Many of my colleagues are from/in Ukraine
 
@sehe no, it's usual for wars
 
Xeo
That... doesn't make it any less gruesome?
 
@sehe those comments are from the people blaming the other side, nothing interesting - "you're bastards", "no it's you who are bastards"
 
so. pretty gruesome
 
10:52 AM
@sehe and ... what's your point? consider the headquarters of apple, google & microsoft are in the earthquake zone, I really don't think life is all that unfair ...
 
i wonder if all the ultraviolent footage available online these days will start desensitizing people
 
@chmod711telkitty wtf, kitty
 
@sehe which part shocked you?
 
The part where somehow you missed the part that people are affected by war violence. And the logical connection that if these people are close to you, you might also be affected.
The part where you berate me for posting something of personal relevance.
The part where you trivialize this sentiment, and say "Oh well, people have natural disasters everywhere" (how is shelling similar? who even THE FUCK mentioned whether it's fair, or has to be?)
 
@chmod711telkitty The part where a whole fucking truck is blown up for like no reason? (with real people inside)
 
11:05 AM
In other words, just get the fuck out.
@Rerito I'm not even talking about reasons or absense thereof. This is not a normative thing.
 
@sehe Yeah I get your point. I'm more shocked that the footage of people's death seems to be "ok"...
 
many things are ok for telkitty
 
Herb Sutter is Canadian? Interesting factoid.
 
I don't think she meant to say it's "ok", although her point was complete non-sense (as usual)
 
@AndyProwl She clearly said she wasn't shocked at all by the footage. Like viewing the death of real people is nothing
> which part shocked you?

This implies that no part shocked her quite clearly
 
11:09 AM
telkitty must be in heaven receiving all this attention
 
@AndyProwl I think her point was I shouldn't be mentioning where my colleagues live, since people die everywhere. I think the Kitty needs to go live somehwere more interesting (Liberia, Mali, Iraq come to mind)
@Rerito She was referring to "which part of my comment".
 
Well, my point is that horrible things happens all the times, got this from yahoo answers
Well if there are 7 billion people on the planet and the average lifespan is about 70 years then that would have to be extremely close to
100,000,000 people a year
273,973 people a day
11,416 people an hour
190 people a second
 
@chmod711telkitty You're so erudite. Now shut the fuck up. Because what you said was completely inappropriate.
 
@Rerito yeah it is nothing. It happens everyday and you just ignore it. When you see such video it makes you "shocked" but it's only your perception. People die every moment, ignore you that or not
 
An apology is something different than quoting stupid yahoo answers
 
11:11 AM
consider you and I and in fact everyone else here would be dead in 100 years, nothing is inappropriate
it's not like I am not going to die
 
Cut the cynicism crap already...
 
@Abyx I realize this. It's not about the stats. It's about the feeling of unsafety that people get. The effective reduced freedom
@chmod711telkitty I think it is. You don't need to agree. But I can scold you for it nonetheless. Because you were being an insensitive bitch. Fine if that's appropriate because you'll die anyway, but please stay out of my sight until then (or behave more human)
 
@sehe meh, you can also feel unsafety from the fact that you'll die in next 30 or 50 years
 
@Abyx Sure. Why did you post the vid?
 
Crapshit compiler just hangs and doesnt say whats the problem -.-
 
11:14 AM
y'all need to focus away from war and listen to some smooth music
 
I help injured birds, tell me what have you done to help the others
 
@chmod711telkitty I laughed reading this
 
@ArneMertz It probably doesn't hang. Try with reduced memory (to make it fail earlier)?
 
@Rerito Whether one finds that shocking depends on how much of that they have seen, or (in the worst cases) lived through - which you cannot know. Not being shocked by something doesn't necessarily mean regarding it as "ok", and does not imply accepting it either.
 
I also think about how many animals ... and in fact people starved to death each day
have you done anything to alleviated this or you just stay there getting sentimental only when you think about it
 
11:16 AM
@sehe it doesn't fail. It just consumes a full CPU for hours doing nothing.
 
@sehe well actually yeah, I posted it because I wanted to remind you of that other side of life. Yes, it may inflict feeling of unsafety.
 
That was my sole point. Thanks for the reminder though.
 
@AndyProwl It's not the actual violence of the video (we are all used to it through movies, tv or video games...). It's witnessing the death of someone. Someone cant just feel nothing realizing that (I hope so at least)
 
there is no justified wars in my opinion, but the U.S. government & Australian government do not agree
 
@Rerito If you witness the death of someone enough times, it will stop shocking you, although it won't make you less sad.
 
11:18 AM
@AndyProwl Then just s/shocked/moved/
I guess I made a poor word choice
 
@Rerito Actually, I think it's the other way around for me. I don't particularly care that I see people actually die. It's about the principle. That you could be fearing for sudden death/lifelong injury just driving to... the shopping mall (the kitty should feel this in her bowels), work, wherever
And it's actually about the violence for me. I would think it shocking if were about people getting punched down unexpectedly
 
@Rerito I hope you are a vegetarian or that sounds incredibly hypocritical
 
@Rerito It's really about the amount of this thing you witness or go through
 
@chmod711telkitty I think it is about the inevitability, really; and US/Australia are attempting to "contain" it before it spreads (it remains to be seen whether that even works, and is even fair at all)
 
@chmod711telkitty I'm tired of your bullshit I'm just gonna ignore you
6
 
11:21 AM
@sehe uhm "contain" what?
 
And go to lunch (and yes i'm gonna eat a whole bunch of ham)
 
@Rerito who the heck are you, why would I care?
 
@Rerito took you long enough
 
@chmod711telkitty Gosh. There we go again. Don't act as if there is no difference whether a bunny is struck by lightning or a human is killed by another human. There is a difference. Of course, there is a common factor too, but trying to neglect the difference is the hypcrite part
 
@chmod711telkitty that's our girl!
 
11:22 AM
@Rerito I think that's always a good resolution
 
@Abyx They seem most concerned about leaving conflicts "far away from home".
 
@sehe true
 
@chmod711telkitty Shame you fell out of character there
 
did she?
 
Well, currently I am feeding a wild half blind butcherbird these few weeks, so I get to think about how many injured bird would be starved to death quite often & that made me thinking about how many people are starved to death every day
 
11:27 AM
Add to Newbie Hints: Please ignore Telkitty, your sanity will thank you later.
 
@AndyProwl andy ... ~_~
what happened to your sweetness, now you act like a true lounger :p
 
I took sides
The fact that I prefer behaving kindly by default does not mean everyone deserves kindness
 
@Rerito maybe you should watch some videos from the conflicts where French army participated. So that you won't feel that unrelated. Chad, Somali, Libya, Mali, etc, etc
 
I think most of the time you just come up with irritating comments or blatant non-sense because that's the most effective way for you to catch the attention you need
 
user1804599
I hope MediaWiki has an API.
 
11:29 AM
And you don't realize (or maybe you do?) that it upsets people
 
user1804599
I want to automatically create users and wikis.
 
@AndyProwl I am plonking you, good job though, you are the 2nd one on my plonk list & the other one is feeds
 
feel free
 
user1804599
As well as in YouTrack, Toggl and Sentry.
 
user1804599
And Bitbucket.
 
11:34 AM
@sehe It's sad people kill other people, l believe life is precious. But in that video it was a military truck that got blown apart
There are many gang killings in the mexico, but a lot of the times it's between rival drug gangs
 
3
Q: Convert stereo audio to mono in AVI file

LonnieBestI have an AVI file with audio recorded only to the left channel. Is there a setting, audio filter, or whatever to allow me to duplicate the left channel to the right channel, thus converting from stereo to monaural (mono)? This is an issue mainly because my laptop suffers from a bug where audio...

Or use VLC to watch it. VLC can pick one audio channel and duplicate it.
 
hmpfh
cars are complicated beasts
but frankly, learning about cars is way worse than learning programming, mostly because there's an even worse market for shitty tutorials
 
I wonder if I am always provocative because I think outside the box, because it makes you uncomfortable think in a way you have never thought before?
 
cars?
 
@BartekBanachewicz learning about cars is only worse because you cant always readily experiment or work on them
 
11:44 AM
@FredOverflow I'll try vlc
 
also because its expensive
 
@Pris fuck that, I'm going to work on my car myself
 
OOOH, way worse than learning programming
IRTA "the worst way to learn programming"
lol
 
We've already disassembled parts of two my friend's cars
was fun
 
@BartekBanachewicz thats great if you have the resources too... what i meant was that all you need to learn programming is patience, books/internet and a dinky computer. all very affordable for many people
 
11:45 AM
yeah I know I know
 
@StackedCrooked coliru broken or did I pass the wrong command line again? coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/839628ebcc9aef76
 
i hope one day i have enough money to do an engine rebuild... just for the hell of it
or maybe even build a kit car if i win the lottery or something... that would be so cool
 
depends on the car, some cars are more popular than the others, thus there would be more tutorial on those
 
Cars seem complex and there are so many different makes and modes, but at least they all work in roughly the same way, unlike software.
 
eh, the devil is in the details
say, "oh, you've got a V6 here? See we've designed the camshaft in a totally different way so fuck you"
and parts break in totally weird ways
 
11:48 AM
it's always fun to learn a different discipline though
 
@BartekBanachewicz unlike with software :p
 
@MartinJames hm the basic principles how software is executed on a cpu is roughly the same for each software. There are only many more layers of abstraction than around the wheels touching the road.
 
@jalf with software it's at least "works" or "doesn't"
 
@BartekBanachewicz Well, at least it has a camshaft, (or two, or four). Discounting pure electric cars, they all have at least one camshaft.
 
a damaged oil pump can fuck you over, say, a few months' time
 
11:49 AM
@BartekBanachewicz lol! If only that were true.
 
with turbocharger and/or the whole engine breaking
the gradual deterioration is making it harder imho
 
@BartekBanachewicz works in the sense of "works as implemented" or "works as intended" or "works as required" or "works as expected" or... ?
 
when most people work on cars they aren't actively designing stuff... its either maintenance, tuning or installing parts that have already been built. but with software you're almost always creating new things (even though you're using libs and all that)
 
I don't know about the cars but from what I have learnt in the building industry is that, unlike programming, everything has to be precise, a lot of real life things has a nice tolerance level, meaning as long as you getting it pretty much right, it is okay
 
@Pris I (warning pet hate) don't count people writing CRUD apps on stuff like angular particularly creative
 
11:52 AM
unlike programming, even one letter is off in a build path, it breaks down
 
@BartekBanachewicz JS would have been fine.
 
@ArneMertz either it does what you want it to or not. Cases halfway are scarce
@MartinJames #nolanghate
 
@chmod711telkitty You know a lot of things. I didn't see a military truck. And I saw a lot more than that. Also, WTF.
 
@BartekBanachewicz and that's not true for cars? :p
 
@chmod711telkitty buildings have tolerances and stuff too, its not that far off from any material design that goes into car parts
 
11:53 AM
@jalf with cars pretty much all the time the components offer some degree of working
 
@chmod711telkitty Yes. Go live there and see how you like it. Especially once they start firing shells that break holes into the road and obliterate your newly built garden house.
 
imagine a sin function that got worse precision over time :P
that's cars.
 
@BartekBanachewicz eh, I can imagine a sin function that gets worse precision depending on its argument ,)
is that better?
 
The roads around here already look like they've had shells blow holes in them.
 
@chmod711telkitty I wonder whether you are just feeling smart for being able to think outside the box (Hint: so can we). Get a bit smarter, and you'll even be able to see the box again (from the outside). I think that's more useful
 
11:54 AM
@BartekBanachewicz what I want it to do or what the customer wants it to do? That may not be measurable, because that would imply that I actually know what I/the customer want it to do.
 
@BartekBanachewicz well people do amazing stuff in JS too (look at the cesium project, d3, etc). im not talking about html-ish document formatting-tier 'programming' but where you actually have to design stuff that takes a lot of planning and all that
 
@ArneMertz Oops. I broke it then
 
also, am I evil for really enjoying seeing the political elite all over Europe freak out over the election in Greece? :)
 
and pretty much all programming ive come across involves some kind of creative design problem solving whereas that sort of stuff isnt done very often in cars (you can diagnose problems but solutions are generally 'open part x, replace part y'
 
11:56 AM
@jalf that borders on evil. Of course, you're right in the implied criticism
 
Hmm, "borderline evil" then? I guess I can live with that :D
#worthit
 

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