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9:00 AM
I am not, but at least I know in any community, people come & people go
 
I'd trade 1 telkitty for 42 tomalaks
6
 
totally :p
 
I’m not sure if this was a tangent or something you wanted to talk about just now, so ping me whenever it tickles your fancy.
 
because at least she's a real girl
 
sbi
@jalf What's wrong with your head? This had been explained while you were around before.
 
9:01 AM
@Abyx Wait. You mean you want, um, to kick telkitty out to get 42 clones of LRiO in the Lounge?
 
sbi
@MarkGarcia Yes, I was puzzled, too. He seems to have said this the wrong way 'round.
 
@sbi Perhaps that I generally try pretty hard to avoid thinking about LRIO, under whatever alias he's using at the time?
(Also, the message you linked to just explains that he used to use the name Tomalak; not that he's a different person from the other Tomalak)
Anyway, thanks for explaining
 
I love the dumbness of chat that it preserves flair data when it is posted.
 
@MarkGarcia no, I'd rather have another kitty here
 
When I first saw LRiO's about me at the time he still had that ~"top new users" image, I thought those other 2 accounts was his.
 
9:08 AM
@LucDanton At the moment I'm in some angry state about ranting about health.
 
@Abyx s/telkitty/girl/ :P
 
I’m playing the vidyas.
 
sbi
@jalf But then by now I am thoroughly confused as to what you are/were so thoroughly confused about.
 
@MarkGarcia aren't all girls behave like telkitty?
 
sbi
@Abyx We'd all have one more kitten than 42 <others>, no matter who those <others> are.
Anyway, back to writing test code...
 
9:11 AM
@Abyx Not enough XP.
That also makes a smiley.
 
@sbi we had more that 42 help vampires here
@MarkGarcia what's XP?
 
@Abyx eXPerience
 
@sbi I wasn't sure if they were the same person or not. That's all :p (And I didn't care enough to go trawling through the chat archives to see if I could piece together the answer)
Anyway! Is/was it the lounge's birthday?
 
the wasteland 2 devs trolled people good with this gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/186698/…
nobody knows what that button really does
everyone wants to know
devs don't say shit though
 
@jalf Yesterday I think.
Or the day before.
 
9:18 AM
@jalf Betrayed by cache. :(
 
9:31 AM
@Abyx Telkitty is not a girl. Telkitty is an Australian.
3
 
user1646075
@MartinJames oh nice. I had to come in here and see that.
 
user1646075
How dare you equate Telkitty with the average Australian
 
user1646075
Geez giyz - trying to create a monster? 42? 42?
 
@aclarke lol, you do have a point - she does not seem to be a cricket fan:)
 
user1646075
@MartinJames then we're kindred spirits in that regard...
 
user1646075
9:35 AM
Such a typical form of English cruelty, cricket.
 
user1646075
5 days standing around in the hot sun doing almost nothing?
 
@aclarke Yes, somewhat like an economy package holiday in Corfu.
..only much more expensive.
 
user1646075
the only thing I find as boring is baseball. it's a toss-up
 
user1646075
also I couldn't bat as a kid. Not conducive to enthusiasm ;-)
 
user1646075
© - oooo - my first ever use of a compose key! finally found a use for the Win key on linux
 
user1646075
9:41 AM
™ WOW!
 
@aclarke Me neither. I could bowl well and catch a bit, then I'd come in at no 10 and lose teeth.
 
user1646075
I won best -n- fairest in the Under 7's rugby. I retired ½ way through Under 8's
 
user1646075
that was my entire sporting career
 
user1646075
now, where do I find the list of pre-defined composing key combos in linux....
 
user1646075
hmmm the combos are quite «intuitive»
 
9:45 AM
heh
 
Here I am again, looking at format strings.
 
user1646075
yeah, I peeked in occasionally today. having fun?
 
not really
The implementation I have in gears is String.Format from C# but it's not as cool.
I don't really know how to handle custom strings passed :v
 
Custom?
 
user1646075
custom strings? the "%10.15s" stuff you've been playing with?
 
9:54 AM
Nah I mean in C# if you do uh
String.Format("{0:stuff}", instance); it's equivalent to instance.ToString("stuff")
 
"You can use my printf to format, so long as printf("%s", your_args) is what you want!"
 
user1646075
@Rapptz oooo
 
the format string is delegated to the ToString member function of whatever is passed at the index.
but I don't like String.Format too much.
@LucDanton essentially
Do you think having the type specifiers do nothing but formatting is confusing?
 
What kind of formatting? Because if it’s left-aligned vs right-aligned, that has nothing to do with type (obviously enough).
 
I mean things like printf("%s", 10);
Would the %s really be that confusing? :v
 
10:01 AM
That specifier does nothing period :v
 
you are correct
 
Pick just one.
 
user1646075
well, that's an explosion usually
 
not in rapptz_printf!
@LucDanton Well, what about e.g. printf("%f", 10); which while useless is equivalent to std::fixed?
 
user1646075
@Rapptz ummm - what do you do with s then? that'll freak out a lot of skilled printf users...
 
10:03 AM
Yeah, you have to turn some type specifiers in whatever it is they specify. So e.g. number format specifiers.
 
@aclarke it just terminates format-spec.
 
user1646075
 
user1646075
terminates?
 
user1646075
because not compatible, so give up?
 
with prejudice
 
user1646075
10:05 AM
indeed
 
because the type specifiers don't make sense in the context of iostreams
 
user1646075
ok...
 
user1646075
I'll have a look when you're finished :-0
 
I'm already done :p
 
@aclarke As in ‘statement terminator’, not std::terminate.
 
10:06 AM
yeah ^
 
user1646075
ohhhhhh
 
user1646075
might be wise to not use % since people like me would have .... expectations .... just sayin'
 
user1646075
i thought I found your gears lib url through your avatar. what am i missing now?
 
at that point I might as well make my own fancy format string
 
user1646075
use a unicode character like ❣
 
user1646075
10:12 AM
github - duhhhh.
 
it's not there atm
I'm not very good at this 'make your own format string' thing
 
user1646075
yup - just found out
 
I've looked through like ~50 languages and most just borrow printf.
 
user1646075
hah - i see you chose not to double a literal } - came out much simpler?
 
yeah that's the old code
which I'm trying to replace :v
 
user1646075
10:14 AM
oh right. ahhh
 
user1646075
so the }} WILL be in the next cut?
 
user1646075
@Rapptz yes, it's got a lot of mileage. And variants unfortunately -boooo-
 
I personally don't like printf, but I do appreciate it.
 
@Rapptz How come?
 
@LucDanton I'm not really satisfied with it.
 
user1646075
10:16 AM
@Rapptz from simpler days...
 
I tend to rewrite things until I'm satisfied with them.
 
Who doesn’t :) Begging the question: where does your unsatisfaction stem from?
 
user1646075
printf does have merit in being very compact. When C++ came out with it's << and modifiers I was a bit incredulous
 
@LucDanton The }} stuff still bugs me and I don't like how String.Format (and consequentially my code) handles 'format strings'. It makes sense there because everything is an object that has ToString but for C++ it doesn't.
whenever I do this stuff it reminds me why I dislike iostream :<
 
What about a ` \\ ` ` \{ ` escape route (geddit?) for the first point?
 
10:19 AM
you don't even get the whole formatting suite that is in printf.
\{?
 
I’m leaving the message as is as a testament to the terribleness of morkdown
 
what was it supposed to be? lol
 
Same, but with code syntax and no backquotes.
@Rapptz With '\\' as a literal backslash
 
`\{`?
 
user1646075
having to backslash a backslash just to get past a language's built-in string escape, and stuff one backslash into a string for the purposes of backslashing something else (takes breath) kinda shits me too. not too sure that "blah\\{blah" is a nice idea
 
10:27 AM
the first format string thing I did was %n and the format specifications were passed in the parameter
 
I’ll read up on {{.
 
user1646075
@Rapptz wow - must be doing some hard work, that
 
so stuff like printf("%1", io::flags<std::hex>(10))
or something like that, been a while
 
How it works is, {{ is literal { and it can’t appear inside a format?
And } outside of a format is not an error, but a literal }.
 
yeah essentially that's how I implemented it
 
10:31 AM
It is compelling. Although I’m still torn on having }} as a literal }. Symmetry is nice.
 
attempts to make his own format string
 
Don’t forget you can pick just one character as a delimiter, e.g. |. Doesn’t have to be a pair :v
 
I'd need a terminator
 
print("The |0| says |1|", "cow", "'quack'").
 
Oh like that.
$0$ doesn't look bad to me but I blame TeX for that
 
10:39 AM
my eyes
 
lol
I guess it is TeX's fault then :)
the rest look ugly to me except I guess | and %.
|0|, $0$, %0%
 
Whatever you pick, allowing whitespace in could be helpful.
 
you mean like $ 0 $?
 
@Rapptz Should also try what it looks like with options. |0<:0-8| or whatever.
@Rapptz Yes.
 
run tool for two hours -> "Failed." as the sole output.
 
Ell
10:46 AM
@Puppy lol you got trolled
@Puppy what day do you get paid?
 
user1646075
@LucDanton symmetry is good for things like using % key (bounce between nested matched pairs in vim) and other similar features in other tools....
 
@LucDanton Seems like it could be a pain.
For like e.g. specifying 'fill' character
 
user1646075
$0$ is a bit heavy. | looks nice.
 
Yeah I'm leaning towards |
 
I helped!
@Rapptz Like \ or /?
 
10:49 AM
\!
 
user1646075
@LucDanton my vote: A) [ ] whitespace. B) [⨉] no white space!
 
The jumbles of specifiers/options tend to look like wrecks. A bit of respite would be nice.
 
user1646075
@LucDanton well done you. have a Girl Guide cookie.
 
user1646075
@LucDanton what do you mean? the suggested |0<:0-8|?
 
user1804599
10:52 AM
Holy shit.
 
user1646075
that looks neat enough. I'd only need to know, like, what it's supposed to mean.. it certainly slides into the eyes easily enough
 
Well in Posix-land you get things like %1$*2$d.
 
user1646075
@LucDanton not a fan of the new *2$ - it added a lot of visual noise, just to save calculating wn and then passing it two or three times...
 
user1646075
strikes me as 'cure worse than the disease'
 
it's *n$
 
10:56 AM
@aclarke It’s important for i18n. In a translated message, you may have to swap things around. Not so much about mental arithmetic.
 
how does *n$ help with i18n?
 
user1646075
I've never used the positional syntax. IMO you're making too much of a mess if that's going to help you.
 
I understand %n$ but not *n$
 
Oh sorry. You’re right.
@Rapptz Well, what if I move a format around? Which width will get eaten?
 
> "we [FBI] aren’t seeking a back-door", but instead are instead interested in "developing intercept solutions during the design phase" Orwell?
@rightføld despeld.nl hehe
 
10:59 AM
If you say in public that you want back doors built in, aren't you effectively asking for a front door instead?
 
user1646075
the first problem with using numbered arg references is the old problem of - what if I insert one somewhere - I have to renumber. I get a lot of fingerprints on the screen when i have to do things like that in any code
 
@LucDanton the one you specify!
 
@Rapptz Translators don’t have much leeway for that.
 
Ell
It's not possible to have a variadic virtual function is it?
Hmm no of course not
 
maybe with C valist
:p
 
11:05 AM
huh, always interesting what permissions a file ends up with when you scp it from a windows machine to linux
 
Ell
@Rapptz I'll pass :P
 
for some reason, the .ico became executable, but the .png didn't
 
Ell
I think I've done the best I can
 
my experience has typically been 644 by default for when I go Windows -> Linux.
 
@Rapptz E.g. print("the %*2$s-meters long %3$s says '%4$s', format_width, cow, moo) to print("'%4$s', goes the %*2$s-meters long %3$s", format_width, cow, moo) is correct then?
 
user1646075
11:06 AM
@jalf oh yeah - they often turn into a pipe/block device chimera.
 
user1646075
@jalf do they have different perm lists in windoze
 
I wonder whether people will treat each other better if we know how much longer we will be together ... like I have been on this lounge for a year and a bit, would people be nicer to me if they know I only going to be here for another, for example 342 days?
 
@LucDanton It would be (in theory) but I don't think C printf allows it.
this is what prompted my initial question btw
 
user1646075
@chmod711telkitty First, I'd want to know where that number comes from, and how iron-clad the deal is.
 
printf doesn't allow %*n$s, it just segfaults and I don't know why
 
11:08 AM
assume that you know it for certain
 
@chmod711telkitty I doubt it. People seem to have made up their minds
 
Oh right. I remember.
@Rapptz Bad varargs? :)
 
probably :p
 
user1646075
@Rapptz that would have to be %*2$*1$s
 
@jalf true, if people are used to this kind of things it probably would not affect them any more
 
user1646075
11:09 AM
the use of n$ is obnoxious because ALLLLLLL references must be numbered.
 
user1646075
wait, dammit - this is why I hate n$ - a little tester is crappign out.
 
I believe you can't mix numbers and automatic indexing i.e. %s
it's either one or the other
 
user1646075
no, not at all.
 
hmm nvm
seems I'm wrong here.
 
user1646075
and I meant %2$*1$s
 
user1646075
actually, what is going on makes sense when you know what it's really doing. Originally, without n$, it would grab an arg at a time. But when you use $ it just grabs whatever you say, and thus it does not advance the implicit arg. So .... "%*1$s" fails because: first arg is grabbed for the width, and then first arg is grabbed for the value to emit AND the 'next arg' is bumped.
 
yeah more than likely
 
tl;dr I was right, right?
I’ll take a ‘probably’.
 
user1646075
@LucDanton ts;d/kn - what did you say?
 
20 mins ago, by Luc Danton
@aclarke It’s important for i18n. In a translated message, you may have to swap things around. Not so much about mental arithmetic.
 
11:18 AM
@LucDanton No, your thing would probably segfault and crash :p
 
That was an example, not the point!
 
user1646075
printf("<%*s> <%*1$s>\n", 30, "hello, I am a string", "so am I");
 
user1646075
@LucDanton ooooh - ahhhhhhh yes, that's one good use.
 
user1646075
my last sample shows that AFTER values are grabbed in the normal flow, you can get another copy of a consumed arg with a $ reference. IMHO that's the best approach. But it also suffers from having to renumber if you ever put more args in the middle
 
user1646075
- or - piss around explicitly numbering all of them
 
user1646075
11:23 AM
gcc still gives a warning because this usage is tooooo subtle.
 
@LucDanton pleonasm?
 
user1804599
baka
 
Absolute references are a definite plus. The way around renumbering issues is to refer by name, but that doesn’t fit a library solution of course. You need language support.
 
@rightføld laureaat
 
@sehe Badder varargs then!
 
11:24 AM
Ok. Accepted
 
@LucDanton String interpolation? :)
 
user1646075
@sehe or oxymoron. morning bloke.
 
what's a good syntax for "custom fill character"?
I currently do '<char> so '# would make # the custom fill character
 
@Rapptz It certainly hints in that direction. Although things like Python kwargs are a different kind of language support that can be used.
 
user1646075
@Rapptz that's a C#ism isn't it? it looks good
 
user1804599
11:25 AM
@Rapptz fill<...>
 
no that's a PHPism.
 
@aclarke I'm more of an evening person :)
Hi
 
user1646075
@sehe oh, vampire. gotcha.
 
user1804599
Or {x, width=42, fill='#'}.
 
There's a reason I hide my teeth in my avatar
 
user1804599
11:26 AM
Makes ########################################10.
 
@rightføld would love that
 
user1646075
ummm, would it work to have the format strings interspersed? eg `"%*s", 10, "hello", "%3.5f", 12.345, ........
 
user1646075
in traditional vararg use, you'd have to have a magical indicator somewhere of either a count or a stop argument.
 
@Rapptz Since you mentioned that point against free-form whitespace I’ve been thinking about that and I don’t really have an idea. I was tempted to make a joke with something like | 0 : fill( ) | though!
 
user1646075
@rightføld that's very business like for sure
 
11:28 AM
@rightføld I used to do it similarly to this but it was really verbose.
 
user1646075
@sehe a vampolar-bear!
 
user1646075
 
user1646075
I can't believe that turned up in the googles.
 
user1646075
must be a SFW variant of rule 34
 
@LucDanton Lol. I don't have a good idea either :p
 
11:30 AM
@aclarke TIL @sehe is a vegetarian
 
@x to fill with x’s?
 
user1646075
or this is even better
 
user1646075
 
|0:<@#*2.*2|
heh
even the format string is sad
 
user1646075
now it's getting cryptic. just like printf!
 
11:33 AM
Also there is something unsatisfying about filling with ‘characters’. That’s not an easy one to solve though.
 
user1804599
@Rapptz That looks like J.
 
@Rapptz I don’t see it :Þ
 
the :<!
 
Unless it has a halo and is puking out a lot of stuff.
 
@aclarke Well that's every format specification in its complex form.
 
so that's as ugly as it can get essentially
 
user1646075
yup - lots of line noise, or lots of << - take your pick.
 
@LucDanton Well, it's just analogous to std::setfill(x)
 
Fuck I’m really getting into this ‘write a better formatting function’ now.
 
user1646075
@Rapptz it's not bad if that's the worst. If it was followed by literals, you could cope. If a few were banged together, it could get crowded, so maybe allowing white space is a good idea after all.
 
user1646075
11:38 AM
maybe also having a |fmt1 & fmt2 & fmt3| could integrate the whitespace and string them together without too many | noising up the place. choose your poison for &
 
I don’t follow, are you collapsing consecutive formats? What does that do?
 
user1646075
it will mean that intense bunches of formats without intervening literal text won't look so scary
 
user1646075
in bidniz, print specifiers can get enormous. anything that reduces eye strain, and reduces the need to renumber $ specifiers would be welcome.
 
I was wondering when you would bunch up formats. Then I realised using | looks just like writing tables (probably an unconscious association).
 
user1646075
yeah, it's a nice symbol for the job.
 
11:43 AM
Obviously we want something like "[ 0 #$'@ | 1 ^-> | 2 ]" then! (jumbles of symbols for realism).
 
user1646075
oh, I was just about to close a coliru tab, and saw the sample printf("%*2$s", "hello", 10); which is the reverse of what I've been doing. I see why you've been claiming that this works; but you'll have a nasty surprise if you try to add more bits into the spec AND try to avoid numbering everything that comes after.
 
user1646075
I used something like 10, "string" in my samples 'cos that's the traditional, so it just fell out of my head that way.
 
Baddest varargs.
 
user1646075
@LucDanton <sad face> that varargs never had a concept of an argument count.
 
@aclarke I would never do that style of jeans
 
11:48 AM
Hello guis
 
user1646075
no? but those jeans are showing what's in store. nothing wrong with a good bump. Or a soft girly belly.
 
user1646075
@Cicada hello! you're chirpy!
 
user1646075
sorry, i'll go stand in the corner now.
 
user1646075
Is it just me, or does @sehe 's name make every reply look like the author is having a giggle? Is this some sort of subliminal mind control?
 
Ell
@Cicada hi cli
 
11:58 AM
@aclarke no it's projection. And it's not subliminal, it's abysmal
> #murphy variant: Start plugin upgrade and installation; coming back from break to a dialog waiting: "Do you accept the terms Y/N" #lifetroll tweet
 
Is there some kind of condition_variable where I can wake up simultaneously all threads waiting on it
 
std::condition_variable, look for notify_all.
 
what I have so far :v
 
@LucDanton That still requires the cvs to hold the same mutex, doesn't it?
 
Notify all your cv if you have to.
 
12:12 PM
@LucDanton I must be misunderstanding something. If I notify_all on a cv on which several threads are waiting (using the same mutex) won't that wake them up sequentially? Since they need to acquire the mutex individually
 
Ah. More like a semaphore than a cv then.
 
IOW something like windows' reset event
 
Ell
Noooo
Waait yesss
The bus driver came back for me <3
 
12:29 PM
my youtube on firefox has problem loading videos
 
Ell
Mine too
On linux
Well a lot of the time the playback becomes choppy
Refreshing fixes it
 
user1804599
 _________________________________________
< An apple a day makes 365 apples a year. >
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    \
     \
    ^__^         /
    (oo)\_______/  _________
    (__)\       )=(  ____|_ \_____
        ||----w |  \ \     \_____ |
        ||     ||   ||           ||
 
user1804599
fortune | cowsay -f head-in ftw
 
@Ell clearing cookies is the cure for mine
 
Dat -f head-in ftw
 
12:38 PM
@rightføld not true for leap years ...
 

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