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2:00 PM
@sehe I don't care about the context, have a star for this message :P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I like how arrogant he is with the random letter name being better than auto.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think a large part of the auto-hatred is coming from C. In C people use explicit types and ultra-short names, often even declared at the beginning of a function. With that style, type names help readability. With auto, you can concentrate on longer, more descriptive names without hurting line-length too much.
 
JBL
Reading that reddit post, I wonder if they could remove a C++11 feature in C++14, due to the really close gap (well... 3 years feels quite small...) between the two standards...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Reminds me of something Linus Torvalds said a while ago.
 
@Jefffrey another dino from the C era
 
2:03 PM
@JBL Nope, not happening.
 
I realized that I had raised a silly question. However my initial thinking is that I always cannot know whether an auto variable is a reference(&)/const/pointer(*) or their combination. — Hongxu Chen 56 secs ago
 
@TemplateRex The argument can be applied to typedefs too. "I don't think my_type_def_int is readable enough, can I change it to int?" etc. A silly example but you get the message.
 
JBL
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's what I thought. But didn't know if they actually considered that or just not.
 
As Dietmar states, such a tool would only be marginally useful.
 
He's trying to make it worse? I don't see how he can spread filth implying that others are "substandard programmers" (just because they appear to make C++ worse from his perspective). Anyways
 
2:04 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes it's called intellisense, just hover (don't click, scroll or ctr+click) above it
 
Types are not names and names are not types. For readability you need to pick the right names, not just the right types.
6
 
Goon squad is on the case.
 
stackoverflow.com/questions/19094988/#comment28231819_19094988 <-- annoying, can't onebox after you accidentally post the url with trailing space. Dedups
@Jefffrey Good because the other was a repost
 
@sehe Hmm, of what?
 
2:06 PM
@Jefffrey Of the original, silly
 
:/
Ok, boss.
 
@sehe Well I replied. I'm pretty sure auto drops all three.
 
"error: invalid character"... no line number, no showing which character... this thing is terrible
 
@Rapptz Uhoh. Don't try to educate him. We're substandard programmers! He doesn't want to become one of us!
 
Xeo
it certainly doesn't drop pointers.
 
2:08 PM
@sehe I was quoting linus though. So the "original" is actually a repost of what linus said. :P
 
@TemplateRex IME most of it comes from people growing an habit of naming variables poorly.
 
I'll see if I can find a question, sec.
@Xeo Oh okay.
 
Xeo
auto p = &v; // decltype(p) == decltype(v)*
 
There's the ever present example like in Google Style Guide auto i = x.Lookup(key);, which is just ridiculous.
 
2:09 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes probably. Naming commit messages is another thing most people suck at.
 
@HongxuChen Type deduction for auto drops const and references. So you'd have to do const auto& i = my_reference_returning_function() and you'll know that it has const and a reference since you have to apply it. It doesn't apply to pointers though, you can find a reference here. — Rapptz 2 mins ago
 
auto car = storedCars.Lookup(carName); is so much better than Car i = x.Lookup(key);.
 
I found a question!
 
@TonyTheLion lol, hai
 
@TonyTheLion I hope that's not alive
 
2:09 PM
what
@Jefffrey hai
What's new?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah. x, i? auto is the most descriptive name after Lookup and key there!
 
Xeo
@Rapptz auto& is enough to also capture const, btw
 
I've noticed a common pattern, in programmers new to C++11, of enthusiatic use of auto in every variable declaration. I am hesitant to follow suit. Am I just being backward?
 
@willj auto ALL the variables!
 
JBL
First use of auto for me : iterators ~~
 
2:11 PM
@Xeo huh? you mean for(auto& i: sequence) does not need const?
 
Xeo
ya
 
if you don't modify?
 
Xeo
Oh, not that
if the sequence is const, it deduces const too.
 
@TemplateRex If sequence is const (or only provides const iterators), no.
 
24 hours ago, by Cat Plus Plus
FYI LoungeChat now has a Redmine instance at https://redmine.loungecpp.net (also works without SSL if you're a Chrome-using scrub and cannot add exception)
^ this is the most exciting news
 
2:11 PM
It does need a name for the variable :P
 
@Jefffrey I saw that. I have no idea what redmine is?
 
Xeo
ticket tracker
 
@Xeo Ah well. Adding it has no bad effect.
 
Neither do I.
 
@JBL Same
 
2:12 PM
btw, are there places where auto could be made implicit?
 
?
 
What do you mean?
 
shouldn't the compiler know if the variable first appears
 
Xeo
no thank you
 
like car = garage.Lookup(license_plate);
 
2:13 PM
@TemplateRex There might also be a relation with the language (C) being weak typed.
 
Xeo
I like to explicitly introduce my variables
 
@TonyTheLion Project management. Poor man's JIRA.
 
Xeo
I hate that about Python, for one
 
@TemplateRex are you declaring car there?
 
@TemplateRex That's undesirable. You don't want to introduce variables from typos. (VB had that by default and it was horrible)
 
2:13 PM
I think of auto as being like template type deduction - it requires some level of competency, therefore I won't overuse it in code that I expect others to maintain...
 
@Xeo you could even if implicit were also allowed
 
Xeo
19 secs ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@TemplateRex That's undesirable. You don't want to introduce variables from typos. (VB had that by default and it was horrible)
And I meant only explicitly introduce them
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes example?
@Jefffrey yep
 
Xeo
assignment
car = ...;
// ...
if (...)
  cra = ...;
also, f(cra); // what now?
 
@Xeo error
 
2:15 PM
A different syntax for introducing a variable is really desirable.
 
Xeo
I like Puppy's :=
 
@TemplateRex But not the previous one :S
 
@willj auto Auto = autoShop.unpimp(zeAuto);
8
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ok, so car := ...; would be ok?
 
@TemplateRex Yeah, I would be fine with that.
 
Xeo
2:16 PM
That's effectively what Wide has, for example.
 
@JBL lol. that would rather remove credibility from the standards process, right. How eager would you think compiler vendors will be to implement new features in the future?
 
@melak47 ALL variables should be called auto1, auto2 etc
 
Xeo
not much differen't from auto car = ...;, though
 
@willj yay, GW Basic
 
?
 
2:17 PM
@Xeo saves typing, also in lambdas
 
IIRC you needed to add Option Strict to every VB file to get typo assignment protection.
 
JBL
@sehe MSVC-like eager. Indeed.
 
@JBL worse.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Option Explicit. And no, not to every file, you have a project-wide option
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes pfft, what kind of robot makes typos
 
2:18 PM
Oh. Strict is for type safety.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Saves typing, decreases readability
 
JBL
I was just wondering, hearing about C++ designers not foreseeing some problems with features of C++11. Some kind of "Woops, that was a bad idea, let's remove it quickly"
 
@JBL C++11 was a nice step forward, but yeah it has some clusterfucks that should have been avoided.
 
@Xeo := would also clean up on all the eternal copy constructor vs assignment confusion
 
@EtiennedeMartel oh right
 
JBL
2:19 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Like uniform initialization not being uniform ?
 
Xeo
Like async
 
or baby constexpr
 
Xeo
That's not crippled, that's conservative
 
@TemplateRex That's not irreversibly broken. (In fact, it's not broken at all; it was designed for future improvement)
 
@Xeo +1
People are confusing impatience with "critical" these days.
It's dangerously close to the entitlement issue
 
JBL
2:20 PM
@Xeo The thing that asynchronously runs code in a synchronous way ?
 
@sehe yes, I'm entitled to new shiny features :-)
 
Robot and I talked about this slightly before
Aug 19 at 2:50, by Rapptz
Gonna take a wild guess, universal references, hiding the copy constructor, expecting universal references to be r-value references, using auto with an initializer list but not with templates.
 
@TemplateRex You're welcome to ... hack them into clang (oh wait, they prolly already have been)
 
@sehe I was kidding, and I acknowledge being impatient. Constexpr is not half-bad with C++14
 
there are a lot of minor annoyances
but the pitfalls must be pretty bad for a beginner
 
Xeo
@sehe Well, since Richard was the one that proposed them...
 
@Xeo The worst part about async is that it was supposed to be what you tell beginners to use instead of explicit threads, and then... well, you need to explain the warts to them...
 
sbi
Hey, robot, I just saw that, despite me having provided almost no answer in years, I still have more rep than you have. You are such a slacker!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes: No, because "Registry" normally means "Windows Registry" or "Program settings database". Which doesn't correctly describe functionality of this class. — SigTerm 10 mins ago
 
@JBL dementia
 
2:24 PM
It's a class with functions "register" and "unregister". Of course it's not a registry.
 
JBL
It does draw attention to why athletics are bad for Universities though. — Emmentaler 1 min ago
I concur !
 
user784668
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's a singleton manager factory?
 
@Emmentaler For the record, SE sites are not forums. — Etienne de Martel 5 secs ago
I wonder if I should have said "fora" instead of "forums".
 
JBL
@Fanael It's java code expressed in C++.
 
@Fanael SingletonManagerObjectEntity
 
2:26 PM
@Fanael Yes, it's a manager and he suggests putting it in a singleton if you don't want to pass it as an argument.
 
@sehe has anyone here ever done any Clang hacking?
 
@TemplateRex dead probably has
 
that's how he got his nick
(not)
 
@TemplateRex Puppy has been dropping Clangers for a long time.
 
that pun
 
2:34 PM
@sehe not enough cool kid spelling in 'dat'
 
JBL
@sehe not-deadMG ?
 
I have choice!
 
JBL
Hey @TonyTheLion
 
2:35 PM
Hey
but my Hai was meant for Pirate (@thecoshman)
 
@TonyTheLion awe, you'll make me blush
 
@TonyTheLion Why would he want sharks?
 
JBL
@TonyTheLion But I haven't greeted you today !
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes o_0 what language is that from?
 
@thecoshman German.
 
2:37 PM
@JBL INB "what if I told you"
@R.MartinhoFernandes o_0 I worry how much that has come up in conversation for you
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes haha.
@JBL One does not simply greet a Lion
 
JBL
@TonyTheLion Aye, teach me !
 
@thecoshman What? German? Less than I would have liked.
 
@JBL allow me (╯°□°)╯︵ uoıʃǝɥʇʎuoʇ@
@R.MartinhoFernandes no... German sharks (with friggin lazors)
 
@TonyTheLion yes, we catch em & shave em
 
2:44 PM
Is there such thing as a german shark?
 
@thecoshman hahaha
@Telkitty猫咪咪 oh you with your shaving fetish
@EtiennedeMartel I only know about German tanks.
 
you & Scottie's love child
 
@EtiennedeMartel von jaws?
 
@thecoshman Sharks with impressive mustaches.
 
@sehe I say substandard since I don't hope myself to be one(It's because I'm not familiar with C++ that I ask the question), I meant NO insult at all, sorry that my word leads to misunderstand. But I just don't appreciate @R. Martinho Fernandes's words. — Hongxu Chen 15 mins ago
@sehe ^
 
Xeo
2:47 PM
> But I just don't appreciate the truth.
 
user784668
@sehe: What was the flagged-now-deleted comment?
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel Hai.
 
JBL
@Xeo That may play a role in why he considers himself substandard.
 
58 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
I do appreciate a sentence: C++ is a horrible language. It’s made more horrible by the fact that a lot of substandard programmers use it. And I don't like to be rather a substandard one myself. It's nonsense arguing with you. — Hongxu Chen 10 mins ago
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ah, I see he came from the Linus school of logic "Some bad people use X, thus X is bad"
 
Xeo
2:57 PM
Nononono
"X is bad. Bad people use it, thus it's even worse."
 
JBL
We should have the equivalent of Godwin's law but for C++ and Linus.
 
Everything is bad and you should feel bad
 
everything is bad, but I feel awesome
it all about attitude
 
@sbi Hola.
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel Olé.
 
3:01 PM
when you treat this world as your personal playground & every bad thing as your toy, things would start look awesome
if you start treating shit as an important thing, you life would be worse than shit
you give shit the importance it should be given is the way to happiness
 
3:13 PM
ergh, give it a rest with the hippy bullshit will ya
 
Ell
it's not hippy bullshit! Don't worry, be happy
 
@Ell Don't worry, be happy hippy -FTFY
 
@Telkitty猫咪咪 That reminds me. I'm running out of loo roll.
If it happened to DeadMG, I guess that would make him 'not-Andrex-puppy'.
 
Ok, so, Breaking Bad has ended. Cool.
 
NO SPOILERS
I haven't seen the last episode yet
 
3:18 PM
Dude dies.
 
Don't worry.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Lots of dudes have died
 
That's why I thought it would be a safe bet.
 
Glad to be informed.
 
3:22 PM
@TonyTheLion yeah, but heisenberg, turns out it was just really bad constipation
home time (╯°□°)╯
 
I've still got an hour :/
I'm tired, I didn't sleep well last night. Insomnia :(
 
@TonyTheLion, when are you gonna see The episode?
 
tonight maybe
otherwise tomo night
I have to also fix my phone tonight
I can't send iMessages anymore.
 
@TonyTheLion I would have never thought you had an iPhone.
 
3:29 PM
What model?
 
Why would you think I didn't have one?
@Jefffrey 4S
 
@TonyTheLion You didn't strike him as an iPhony sort of person?
 
Did anyone mention std::graphics already?
 
@JerryCoffin But maybe I struck him as a phoney person :P
 
I imagine the Lounge like a group of "fuck Apple" kind of guys. I generalize too much. (IIRC zoid has a macbook).
 
3:30 PM
haha
 
5 out 20+ of my necklaces
I must be a magpie in my previous life
I have a bunch of shining things that I hardly ever wear
 
I have a bunch of shiny hard drives, too, and I don't wear them either! they're kind of heavy.
 
forgot all about them if it is for my b'day I can not spend alone of
 
@melak47 lol
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes: Do you think this answer is relevant (especially to the comment thread) or am I starting from too general a point for it to really mean anything about the question at hand?
 
3:36 PM
posted on September 30, 2013 by Jennifer Leaf [MSFT]

The Visual C++ team wants to better understand how you use libraries in your day-to-day development work. Whether you’re publishing libraries, finding libraries that work on the Microsoft platforms for which you’re building your apps, or integrating libraries into your project and build systems, we want to hear from you so we can make the right investments in Visual Studio tooling.

 
fuck java
just fuck it
total piece of shit
 
NO SPOILERS
 
I CANT EVEN FUCKING GET IT TO RUN DAMMIT
 
@GamesBrainiac Thanks for the suggestion, but I prefer women -- by strong preference, ones who are not total pieces of shit.
 
@JerryCoffin Its great to see you too Jerry :)
 
JBL
3:37 PM
@JerryCoffin Wise old man words.
 
Now, back to bashing my Java IDE
 
JBL
I say old man as in "Most of us here are closer to half your age than anything else" :)
 
user1804599
Yay.
 
user1804599
I have dedicated server for Minecraft.
 
JBL
@GamesBrainiac Which ?
 
3:38 PM
WTF.
 
@JBL IntelliJ, I turned on external compilation, and now its screwing me over.
 
AFJELWJGH
RVM fucked up something
WTF why isn't my .bashrc running now
 
user1804599
Haha.
 
user1804599
Told you.
 
WHY THE FUCK WOULD IT MESS WITH THAT.
Fuck this Ruby shit.
 
3:40 PM
WHY THE FUCK IS JAVA SCREWING WITH ME!!!!????
 
Ell
xD
 
The answers to these questions and many more after the break
 
@GamesBrainiac because ... you are screwable?
 
user1804599
Wee, Minecraft never went this smoothly.
 
3:41 PM
@GamesBrainiac Thanks. Always nice to be appreciated.
@not-rightfold What about full-sized Minecraft?
 
JBL
@GamesBrainiac Not the worse there is, and by far, at least.
 
I think java makes people stupid as well.
 
Still needs to be proven
but I think I got the right hunch
 
@melak47 I've seen people wear necklaces quite a bit heavier than this one:
 
Ell
3:47 PM
I don't think c++ should standardize graphics :/
 
user784668
C++ should unstandardize itself.
 
Ell
Ima esplode
 
I've esploded already
 
Ell
gahhh
 
What the fuck just happened? 24 flags?
 
3:55 PM
 
@Jefffrey C# people being C# people? Honestly, probably just gang-flagging a troll.
 
in C#, 34 secs ago, by Mysticial
Dafuq is going on? :P
lol, Mysticial and I are being cops :P
 
Ell
Boy I get jealous too easy.
 
@Jefffrey "Mysticial and I". Brought to you by the Grammar Nazis of America -- join today (or we''l break your kneecaps)!
 
lol
Then the real cop comes (Bolt).
 

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