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11:00 PM
 
user1804599
JOHANNES SCHAUB - LITB
 
@not-rightfold Read the upped comment there. He's a moron
 
wait, is my post not loading for anyone else either?
 
@not-rightfold You had to look that up, didn't you.
 
user1804599
11:00 PM
@sehe He is OP, what would you expect?
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus Nope.
 
DAKN∅K_T
 
user1804599
@nightcracker old.
 
user1804599
@sehe Ø, not ∅.
 
@CatPlusPlus VISUAL STUDIO.
 
11:01 PM
 
DAKNØK_T
 
RDP is not very good at transferring files.
 
user1804599
DAMN.
 
@nightcracker Alright, so I'm watching the video, and there are a large number of details which are glossed over but really matter.
 
@CatPlusPlus Well well. "Remote Desktop Protocol". What a surprise
 
user1804599
11:02 PM
 
@sehe Ikea must love it.
 
Ell
Try scp :3
 
user1804599
IKEA, not Ikea.
 
@not-rightfold Again/still?!
 
for example, he complains about the (almost certainly x86) CPU's poor cost, but there's no consideration of the practical issues of scaling up DSPs- for example, all four x86 cores are designed to operate together, whereas the DSPs may well not play together very well, and he freely admits that his "price" for his hypothetical CPU is made out of his arse.
 
user1804599
11:03 PM
@sehe still.
 
user1804599
@nightcracker …
 
in addition, his ops per cycle- 33 ops per cycle peak but only 8 adds? IOW, you will never ever reach peak ops per cycle unless you have the absolute perfect workload.
 
ІKEÅ
 
user1804599
Dat pun.
 
user1804599
11:04 PM
sëhë
 
@DeadMG how exactly do x86 cores work together that proves problematic for DSP's (really wondering - not trying to bash or anything)
 
@nightcracker they don't
 
@nightcracker Well, here's a simple example. The x86 chips contain an in-hardware cache verification algorithm that maintains the validity of the cache between cores. Do the DSPs contain such a thing? Do they even support having multiple DSPs sharing the same memory space? If you were to glue together two DSPs, would they even work correctly at all?
 
@DeadMG That's because he has such a shiny arse.
 
@DeadMG I think his ops per cycle statistic is more for showing that there are no limits in consumer/producer links unlike x86
 
11:08 PM
@nightcracker His entire "Er mah gerd, we have so much more performance" shtick is based on 33 ops/cycle.
 
@sehe wut...
 
if, in reality, the chip will virtually never reach that throughput because you'd have to have the most lucky problem in the world to need the exact number of adds it can issue per cycle
then it changes the desirability massively
 
does it?
 
well, yes.
 
I think his main argument is power consumption and cost - not Gips
 
11:10 PM
I already have ARM chips for those (against which, conveniently, no comparison is made)
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
ARM chips.
 
user1804599
Ik ga slapen.
 
user1804599
Tot morgen prinsesjes.
 
11:14 PM
dik
:P
 
@Borgleader he's had too much space cake
@nightcracker Laan?
@not-rightfold kusje
 
@sehe Laan?
 
user1804599
@sehe no homo
 
zijn er hier uberhaupt vrouwen
 
@not-rightfold ik ook niet, prinsesje
@nightcracker s/u/ü/
 
11:17 PM
oh
 
oh, fuck me
it's like looking at the Lua API's model :(
 
haha
@DeadMG I definitely agree with you that higher frequency with less parallelism is favoured for real world code but I'd have to see how well this architecture can handle/create parallelism in real world code
 
also, his scratchpad stuff just seems to be registers with another name.
and 33 ops/sec wouldn't be so impressive if 24 of them are spill/fill from the scratchpad on to the belt.
plus, I'm seeing a hard limit as to how many operands you can pass to a function.
 
@DeadMG I was thiking the same thing
 
First rule of marketing: big numbers are more important than facts.
Well, actually that'd be rule #1241289 I guess.
 
11:25 PM
@DeadMG he answers later that if the operands don't fit they'll get passed through scratchpads or something
 
I don't know, the joke is broken.
 
@CatPlusPlus /r/antijokes
 
@DeadMG I think with a 3 op latency, it probably tops out at an average 11 ops/sec as scratch
 
The important thing is that I don't know how to get 100MB file off Windows Server.
 
Fuck. I'm wide awake and it's way too early.
 
11:27 PM
1:27 am
@DeadMG I'm mostly interested in the architecture itself - I don't find the numbers too interesting yet
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes hi roboticus.
@nightcracker Frankly, CPU design is so difficult and expensive, I wouldn't treat any of it as real until he has a chip you can hold in your hand.
 
@DeadMG I'd be more interested in the numbers after it has had as much money thrown into it as intel has thrown into x86
@DeadMG and that's a very real remark - doesn't stop me from being interested though :)
 
right.
all I'm saying is, I watched the video and there's a bunch of very relevant details not covered, and there's little reason for me to currently believe that it's going to happen
 
what do you think of the actual architecture idea itself? (fixed latency stack machine)
 
well, I can see how the popping model prevents data races in hardware.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I introduced a bunch of bugs in Wide, but I think that I'm going to only fix the ones for which I can produce test cases.
 
11:34 PM
@CatPlusPlus lol
 
You mean the others are no-repro?
(lolwut)
 
lol
well at this stage, I assume all my code is riddled with bugs
especially since I'm almost certain I forgot a large number of important things when I did the latest rewiring
I'm pretty sure I forgot about quite a few bugs
 
Ell
Should it always build at each commit?
 
UGH IIS
 
@Ell Yep. Never, ever commit code that doesn't build.
 
11:37 PM
Fuck's sake. I type exact URL — 404. I turn on directory listings — file's there. I click on the file — 404
.
 
Ell
Man I have a pack of tomatoes that I didn't even touch and are out of date
 
@DeadMG Well, I think it's a perfectly good policy.
 
@CatPlusPlus url rewriting, access control (traversal/readdir, not read access to the file). Also, possibly .htaccess (if applicable)
@CatPlusPlus Oh, by the way, inb4 special characters in filename that are being blocked/misunderstood?
@Ell You didn't touch it since 2007?
 
How did this become like 2nd or 3rd most popular httpd.
 
Lack of serious competition.
 
Ell
11:40 PM
@sehe ... I don't get it :(
 
@Ell Update the bastards.
Download the Tomato Auto Updater.
 
Ell
Too much effort
I'll just reinstall the latest version when I need it
 
When we finally get e-fridge apps, I can totally see an app called Tomato Auto Updater that warns you of your rotten tomatoes and orders new ones.
 
uh oh, one of our top coders at work still thinks new returns null for out-of-memory situations...
 
So you mean "top" as in "top of hierarchy", right?
 
11:44 PM
You don't know yet, but that's because they have #define new new (std::nothrow) in there.
 
@CatPlusPlus or maybe he's linking against that visual studio library thing somewhere maybe
 
Ell
What does it do?
 
Good god, tell me no.
 
Ell
I thought it threw
 
11:45 PM
It does.
 
@Ell it does
 
Ell
but then thought it couldn't if there was no memory
or something, idk
 
@Ell There's usually some emergency memory for a bad_alloc.
 
@CatPlusPlus wait, why does that ring a bell...
 
And if not, then OS will just kill it.
Or the rest of the system, if it happens to be Linux.
 
11:46 PM
@Ell bad_alloc is commonly allocated at startup.
 
@Ell And memory for a bad_alloc might be available, while there is not enough to fulfill your request for ten megabytes.
 
@CatPlusPlus I remembered, MFC has #define new DEBUG_NEW which broke my placement new usage.
 
Ahaha.
 
lol
So much fucking fail.
 
damn.
I actually need a null object thing.
 
11:48 PM
@DeadMG boost::optional?
 
no, the Null Object Anti-Pattern.
 
why do you think you need it?
 
well, my analyzer is set up to call into the code generator to build a code generation tree
so it's basically impossible to test the analyzer independently of the codegen.
 
hahhaaha
Coupling!
 
and it would also be impossible to ask the analyzer to perform analysis like name lookup without also performing code generation.
 
11:50 PM
What you need is loose coupling and mocking, not null object, whatever that is.
 
it's a thing I've put on the back burner for a while.
 
And dummy implementation for testing is not an antipattern jesus.
 
@DeadMG Really?
Ew.
 
well
 
Is that a consequence of the C++, or of the Wide?
 
11:51 PM
or of the DeadMG?
 
er, definitely just of the way I have architected the analyzer.
I always knew that I wasn't happy with how tightly those two components were coupled together.
 
Well, there's a reason they say writing unit tests can improve your design :)
 
even if I make the codegen an interface, I'm still not happy with how ultimately, a lot of the code generation actually occurs in the analyzer, even if you made the codegen a mock implementation.
 
Stop. Redesign time.
Ahaha I have 24GB of deployments right here.
This is one site.
 
Wikipedia?
 
11:53 PM
No.
 
I dunno
 
Ell
Scottish nationalists be crazy
 
ultimately, I think that most of the work that should be performed by the code generator in a normal compiler is actually done by LLVM.
 
All nationalists are crazy.
 
so I guess I shouldn't feel too guilty about having the codegen ultimately be a thin wrapper on LLVM.
so first order of business is to fix the codegen so I can substitute a mock implementation.
 
11:57 PM
Ahahahahahhahahaha 18GB is just logs.
826M production.log
6.0G production.log.1
1.6G production.log.2
708M production.log.3
5.8G production.log.4
2.7G production.log.5
Literally nobody uses this site.
This shit will collapse so hard if people actually do start using it.
 

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