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8:00 PM
well, "give out" is a big word. It's like they're outsourcing to the community then... oh wait.
 
Why are you stopping anyway?
 
Every time I spend time on those scripts I feel like that's a day wasted.
And there's mingw-builds which IMO does an OK job. No need to duplicate efforts.
 
Eh.. really?
If I help hundreds of people I don't feel like I wasted my day.
 
@Rapptz how would you feel running a command, waiting, seeing a nondescriptive error, and then try to hunt down where it might originate?
@Rapptz There are solid alternatives.
Which are by the way lotz more popularz
like, hundredfolds
 
Hmm.. Qt uses your distro.
 
8:03 PM
nope
not last time I checked.
they use mingw-builds.
 
I dislike mingw-builds because I can't put things inside where the compiler checks for system headers/libraries and that makes me sad.
 
@Rapptz explain what you mean.
 
I'm pretty sure we went over this a couple months back..
 
Might be. I can't remember :/
 
It's where I can do #include <stuff/stuff.hpp> without having to manually do it via command line.
for common headers that I use everywhere and don't plan on distributing it obviously. :S
 
8:07 PM
The directory layout resembles mine. It's not quite the same, but there's still a mingw??/*-w64-mingw32` directory with include and lib directories you can drop your stuff in.
 
yeah I tried every single include folder they had and it didn't work
so I just figured it just doesn't.
 
This is the search list: ideone.com/wnGLQr
The last one is toplevel x86_64-w64-mingw32/include, where you can drop in anything you want.
 
I remember trying everything and gave up so I waited for your 4.8 w/ thread distro instead and it worked
 
lol ok.
 
poor DeadMG, stuck on MinGW 4.6
 
8:10 PM
all the better you're still on those vintage rubenvb builds :P
@DeadMG I'm sad for you too. I'll look into libc++ proper sometime
 
AFAIK it plain doesn't build for Winders
but I never looked into it that much either
 
@DeadMG I had it built before
 
yeah it doesn't, according to their page a lot of stuff fails.
 
I ran the testsuite a couple of times
 
But then again that page looks like it hasn't updated in forever
 
8:11 PM
it requires some ugly hacks like -Wl,--allow-multiple-definitions, but that should be solved now
hence why I'm looking into it again.
it'll only use GCC's libsupc++, no more GCC libstdc++ causing ugly linker errors.
 
So why is GCC defaulting to libstdc++ again?
@DeadMG =[ I'm not looking forward to it.
If it's less complete than libsupc++, then why bother with libstdc++ ?
 
@ThePhD GCC ships with libstdc++. It's libc++ that's LLVM's.
 
or do they both lack <regex> ?
@rubenvb Oh.
 
@ThePhD libsupc++ provides some base new/delete and rtti stuff.
 
Oh.
So it's not really a drastic improvement?
 
8:15 PM
so it's libsupc++/libstdc++ on GCC side, and libcxxabi/libcxxrt/libunwind/libc++ on the LLVM side (not all of these, only some depending on the setup)
@ThePhD yes it is.
 
oh.
 
libsupc++ is just basic basic stuff, all the rest is really in libc++.
 
Is there a way to make GCC play nice with libc++?
 
the main improvement for me with libc++ over libstdc++ is firstly, having a newer version would mean more C++11 support than 4.6's libstdc++, and secondly, I'd really like to drop MinGW dependence as much as possible
 
'Cause I'd like to use that lib. :D
 
8:16 PM
@ThePhD GCC 4.7 wouldn't. I doubt GCC 4.8 will, although both Clang and GCC now say they are language-complete.
 
@DeadMG What's the primary reason you can't use the clang you built and its shipped libraries on Windows?
 
@DeadMG you'd still need MinGW(-w64).
 
@rubenvb GCC is a filthy liar. D:
 
@ThePhD What shipped libraries?
Clang doesn't ship libraries for Windows.
 
I meant when you manually build it clang.
 
8:17 PM
@rubenvb Apparently, lld is getting along.
 
Are any of those headers / libraries usable for Wide's runtime?
 
@DeadMG You'd still need a C runtime to link against.
@DeadMG ah, cool.
 
@rubenvb what, libc++ still requires libc?
@ThePhD Nope. I build Clang with VS, and I don't believe that Clang can cope with VS's stdlib.
 
@DeadMG ya duh. Half of any C++ stdlib is C.
I would have thought you knew that.
 
well, I do know that, but I expected libc++ to include the C run-time components.
 
8:19 PM
How on earth could it do that?
Mac's C lib is closed source. Glibc is obviously GNU. etc. etc.
libc is bare metal system calls.
 
Ugh.
 
well, they're replacing the C++ lib, why not the C lib too?
 
Licenses suck.
 
It's not portable by definition.
 
nor is C++'s stdlib
 
8:20 PM
Glibc is linux standard. No use writing an alternative, no one'd use it.
@DeadMG yes it is. Largely.
Much more than what libc needs to provide.
 
Why standard library writers don't separate OS specific code?
 
well, let me put it this way
 
here it comes.
 
@BartekBanachewicz :effort:
 
WTF is the point of me using libc++ if I am still completely dependent on the system vendor/MinGW?
 
8:21 PM
braces for impact
 
what am I actually going to gain?
 
Xeo
A better C++ stdlib?
 
@DeadMG If you want to be independent of a system vendor, write your own OS.
 
there's no point in libc++ if it can't free me from depending on MinGW/glibc/etc
 
@DeadMG MinGW does not use glibc.
 
8:22 PM
I don't know, as a programmer I require some library
 
Xeo
Yeah, being a better C++ stdlib is totally not the point of libc++
 
MinGW is not a dependency.
 
Seriously though, it's a lot of effort to abstract OS calls when you're pretty much working with the C++ std library, whose job it is is to be the standard wrapper around the OS.
 
I am not really concerned about what it is
 
@ThePhD C++ is hardly an OS interface.
 
8:22 PM
@rubenvb Yeah, I know. I meant, MinGW on Windows, GCC on Unix, etc.
 
@rubenvb Certain parts of it are OS-facing, though.
E.g. filestreams and stuff.
 
Oh jeez, why does std::regex constructor crash :/
 
Xeo
GCC?
Or rather, libstdc++?
 
nah
 
Oh.
 
8:23 PM
clang on osx
 
I was gonna laugh. :P
 
libc++
 
Clang? Clang should be okay.
 
I've given this some thought, and the lowest sane dependencies are:
Linux: glibc/libgcc
Windows: kernel32.dll/user32.dll
Mac: their libc/compiler-rt/whatever.
 
Xeo
@jalf Are you sure about that part?
 
8:24 PM
@Ell you commiting something to your GLDR fork? :3
 
@Xeo well, I put -stdlib=libc++ in the command line...
 
@rubenvb I've no problem with depending on Windows for Windows code, doing anything else is obviously impossible
but at the most fundamental level, I'm very unhappy with depending on somebody else's toolchain to make my own toolchain work
 
Write your own assembler or C toolchain then. :3c
Or a VM.
 
oh, it works with a trivial regex
 
@DeadMG thing is, the toolchain is part of Linux.
at least its runtime libraries' interface is.
i.e. libgcc.
and glibc, although that's not GCC's.
 
8:27 PM
well, then fuck Linux, I don't really care about them
 
lol
 
Xeo
3 mins ago, by DeadMG
@rubenvb I've no problem with depending on Windows for Windows code, doing anything else is obviously impossible
 
I don't see the issue.
 
Xeo
Hypocrisy much?
 
Please try to get this through your thick skull.
 
8:29 PM
@Xeo It's not the same thing.
there's a difference between "An operating system" and "The C compiler built by that operating system's vendor".
 
@DeadMG I never mentioned a C compiler, dumbass.
No one did.
 
Xeo
"I have to depend on Windows (the OS) -> Fine!" vs "I have to depend on Linux (the OS) -> Not fine!"
 
there's nothing stopping anybody building their own C run-time libraries on Windows.
 
@DeadMG name one.
 
@Xeo C run-time libraries like glibc / libgcc are not part of the OS.
 
8:30 PM
@rubenvb irrelevent
 
except Cygwin.
That's not Win32 native.
 
@rubenvb Cygwin
@rubenvb I think that's his point
 
@rubenvb The very fact that it's not native probably aids my point, don't you think?
 
Is any of you actually reading what the other guy is saying? Because from here, it doesn't really look like it
 
So you want to write a new subsystem on Windows?
 
8:31 PM
@DeadMG libgcc is hardly C run-time, more like ABI runtime :P
 
Seems like two angry deaf old men responding to imaginary arguments
 
@jalf I am!
 
@rubenvb he doesn't want to depend on someone elses c implementation, he wants to go directly to OS.
 
@jalf lol.
@MooingDuck that's stupid, on Linux at least.
Linux does not have a stable kernel API.
That's the reason glibc wraps that API.
 
@rubenvb I didn't say it wasn't :D
 
@DeadMG you're funny.
So now you've chosen a toolset which is inherently broken on the sole OS you'll be targetting.
 
@ScottW I have pizza :)
 
Congratulations.
 
Fucking serious paint scuff in my car bonnet
 
@rubenvb I think he wants to link against a C library that's portable, and depends only on the OS. Not sure why. (chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/10186338#10186338)
 
8:34 PM
some stone or something must have hit it on motorway yesterday
 
@rubenvb It's inherently broken on every operating system (apparently even worse on at least Linux, according to you)
 
@DeadMG you fail to understand the basic concept of wrapping kernel API.
hint: Windows is unique in that aspect.
 
no, I just don't care.
 
Nothing stops you from writing syscalls.
 
the bottom line is, the Linux people couldn't keep their shit straight and their C compiler separate from their kernel code.
that's their failure.
 
8:36 PM
lol
You're terribru at understanding these concepts.
 
Windows managed it just fine
 
@DeadMG I fail to see the issue with the OS providing the C API directly. (Is that more or less what linux is doing?)
 
@MooingDuck Imagine what would happen if the same happened on Windows, right now.
 
The C API is part of the OS. On Windows they chose for a non-POSIX API. Everything else worth mentioning chose to expose the OS through a POSIX interface.
 
I would be fucked because Clang can't cope with all the VS extensions involved.
 
8:37 PM
@DeadMG Clang can use VS C stuff just fine.
 
@DeadMG what extensions? The C API is pretty standardized...
 
It's the name mangling it can't handle.
which isn't C.
 
whatever
the point is, I can't use VS's libraries.
 
You should be able to.
for C.
 
now if Microsoft had gone "Er mah gerd, MUST USE VS FOR ALL C AND C++ ON WINDOWS"
then fucked, end of story
tldr
 
8:39 PM
slow learner
 
That's one pissed off puppy.
 
@rubenvb Actually, I laughed
but apparently, I simply have the quickest binning hand of all time
 
Where's Guinness when you need 'm
 
Why was that binned? ....I was responding to your sarcastic comment.
e.e
 
the second explains the first
 
8:40 PM
omg. we had a bug where the french audio claimed it was "UK English", and so was being ignored. So I fixed it, but the ticket came back as "still a problem." I looked again, I changed all the french audio to claim it was "NA Spanish" >.<
 
GrumPuppy xD
 
touche
 
@MooingDuck That should fix the problem.
 
I'll get out of the way now. Wouldn't want to get hit by the storm.
 
@ScottW Oh woah. Now the adventure begins. :)
 
Xeo
8:44 PM
Wait, don't you normally have a 2 week notice period?
@MooingDuck ahahaha
 
Xeo
@ScottW mhm
lol
Hope you find a more fitting job next time
 
yea
fucking jobs
I've only had one job I actually enjoyed, and that was unfortunately only a temporary contract
 
Well, the libc++ thing configured. Now to fix that long-standing error I keep getting.
 
remember, you cant make a krabby patty without POOP.
 
8:57 PM
wtf with the krabby pattys
 
Xeo
Is he another one of those nutjobs?
 
I was watching spongebob with my nephew :X
 
There I sent a plea for help to mingw-w64-public.
 
@ScottW you can't picture enjoying a job?
 
Ell
I would like a job :P
 
9:00 PM
@ScottW I kind of agree with you. What was the one job you did like though?
@TonyTheLion , my mistake. What job did you have that you enjoyed?
 
._.
Fuck UE4
I'm just gonna modify the engine straight.
 
IMO the only kind of fun programming related jobs are the really abstract kind like working on futuristic technology, or Video Game Programming. I kinda thought about going into robotics for a while. Not that I can speak for experience, ive never had a job of any kind lol
17
Yeah
 
@ScottW you must have Alzheimers
privacy
it is lost
 
@ThePhD Stop sucking.
 
dammit my email is being blocked. Stupid SF attachment limits
 
Xeo
9:19 PM
Next proposal without thought, from an old friend.
 
@ApprenticeHacker optimizing my scrabble score:)
 
@ScottW idc about petty rivalries.... e____e...
 
Xeo
Ugh, please no.
I want to delete functions specifically because they should error out as "not available" :s
 
oh haha xD hi
 
9:22 PM
@BoltClock I'm the Nile, apparently
 
No you're senile ;)
 
@not-sehe I thought your not- license expired
We NEED THE POLAR BEAR BACK!!
 
Xeo
@TonyTheLion He doesn't want to accept it. :(
 
@Xeo Fuck Sake!
 
Xeo
Sake is a nice beverage, but I wouldn't want to fuck it.
 
9:23 PM
lol
So I got cake at work for my bday today
Twas nice.
 
Oh was that our cue to wish you a happy birthday @TonyTheLion? >___________>"
Happy birthday :D
 
Thanks buddy.
 
How old are you o:
 
Too old
27
 
Ell
27 isn't too old
women get to their sexual prime at 30, find a mate around your age and bam
 
9:26 PM
lol
 
Ell
also, I met this guy today! youtube.com/watch?v=IfeyUGZt8nk
 
lol dat song
 
I agree. 27 is still pretty young
 
@Rapptz It's not my goddamn fault. D:
 
I don't consider someone old till like 60 lol
45 is about Middle Aged :P
40- = young
 
9:33 PM
@TonyTheLion /in best sexy Marilyn Monroe impression/ Happy Birthday to you. Happy Birthday to you. Happy Birthday deeear Toooony. Happy Birthday to you.
10
 
@MonadNewb Awww thank you <3
 
No prob!
Sorry that my Marilyn Monroe impression sucks...I don't have the tits for it.
 
lol
no worries
 
@Ell that was fucking loud
my headphones were not plugged in and my room started shaking...
 
Ell
oh gawd :L
I use that song to test sound haha
 
9:35 PM
My subwoofer works quite well thank you
 
Its on the Internet, so it must be true, right?
 
the google style guide in terms of c++ is kinda neat now that I actually took time to read it.. a lot of the stuff in there makes sense (even though some stuff is just.. "well, good but tedious")
 
no, no it is not.
the GSG for C++ is the most hideous abomination possible
it is an absymal guide and embarrassing that Google were stupid enough to inflict it on anyone else
 
I mean.. their disallowance of exceptions is kinda odd
 
9:45 PM
Not "kinda", just fucking retarded
 
hmm.. no, I changed my mind.. this is utterly bullshit
I just skimmed over the sections not reading what's in the details (ie. expanding the sections further)
 
Damnit, I want to buy ciggies
I need a smoke
fuck sake
 
@refp and some of the stuff is not as good
 
@TonyTheLion NO! You don't
 
MUST. RESIST. TEMPTATIONS
 
9:47 PM
@TonyTheLion for once I actually mean this, FAP!
 
Fap fap fap
 
const int kDaysInAWeek = 7; what the..
why would I wan't to prefix all constants with k? ...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes well obviously, it's a high resolution clock, not the highest resolution clock.
@refp it's some through back
 
"My function is so simple. why do I get the missing type specifier error?" int functionno(); main() {...
 
some people seem to think it is something really important vOv
 
9:49 PM
@refp oh gawd, well our codebase is strewn with such prefixes
that's why I want to jump off a cliff everyday
among other reasons
 
@TonyTheLion dude, stupid pre-fixes are the least of concerns :P
 
@refp for coders who code in notepad, so they can tell what type the variable is.
 
@thecoshman erm, yea, 700 line functions are worse
 
@MooingDuck I still fail to see the logic
 
and bad indentation compounds the readability issue
 
9:50 PM
@MooingDuck .. a k would only tell you about the variables qualifiers, not the given type so I guess that's not the real reason
 
I also just



love excessive empty lines
 
I suppose if you want a nice codebase, you'd want to work for some startup or something
 
huh... why didn't that reply...
 
because companies that have been around for ages will have lots of legacy code
 
I want C++ to introduce /+ comments +/ from D, am I the only one?
 
9:52 PM
@thecoshman because the reply number is also part of the morkdawn
@refp NO
 
D as in Dlang, not The D
 
The D?
 
the DICK
 
ah, there we go :D
 
@thecoshman fuck that
 
9:53 PM
why would you put "use () or =, it's your choice" in a style-guide? aren't style guides supposed to be definite?
 
¬_¬ stupid mark down
 
int x (3); vs int x = 3
 
oh jeez. Our product has multilingual audio, and optional multilingual ASR. There's a component that plays in the ASR language rather than audio language. Falls back on English, and the "primary" installed language. Why is it using the ASR language, and why is English > primary?
 
¬_¬ fucking mark down
 
Hardcore raining outside
 
9:55 PM
No wait, the code Antonio linked. New rule, each person's name in a conversation must start with a unique letter. — Mooing Duck 40 secs ago
 
@EtiennedeMartel raining tits is it?
 
@refp hmm that's quite nice
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit what is?
@LightnessRacesinOrbit erhm nevermind
 
@refp the thing to which I directly replied
lern2chat
 
@refp why?
 
9:56 PM
@MooingDuck nested multi-line comments!
 
@refp yes
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I are baboon.
@thecoshman you have no saying in this matter.
 
@refp oh. I didn't make the association between nested comments, and the /+ +/ syntax
 
@MooingDuck the need is compatibility
 
@refp meh
 
9:57 PM
/* /* */ <-- one comment
/+ /+ +/ <-- unfinished comment
 
what about /+ /* +/ ?
 
I kinda want to take C++, forget backwards compatability, and fix this sort of garbage.
But then I look at D and know it's a lost cause.
 
@thecoshman /+ +/ renders the /* useless
 
What's the point of nested multi-line comments?
I.. see no purpose.
 

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