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8:01 AM
I want to physically punch
the person who made teh PIX debugger for VS
Who the fuck thought grabbing and holding the mousebutton to zoom in and out
was a better idea than using the scrollwheel?
"Oh hey I heard you like painstakingly rolling your wrist forward and backwards and zooming out 0.1 pixel at a time!"
 
@ThePhD Have you tried customer support?
 
=l
 
I always complain to the product's customer support / feedback for "features" that I don't like.
I love giving feedbacks to products.
 
Xeo
@LucDanton If only C++ had concepts from the beginning, we could keep both concept maps and explicit-only concepts, I think. :/
 
Have you ever encountered (or rather, fought) overlapping/undecidable instances? Because that's what concept maps taste like too me.
Or, I suppose in terms of C++, ambiguous class template specializations that make heavy use of SFINAE?
 
Xeo
8:08 AM
I think the main appeal of concept maps to me is that they allow fitting one interface to another without creating a new class - not sure about the ambiguous stuff
 
'concepts'?
 
@thecoshman C++'s "where" clause, like on C#'s generics
 
Except, of course, way out of control.
 
@thecoshman LOL. True. Very true.
 
8:11 AM
@MarkGarcia especially that second half :P
 
hahahah
WTF SFW
 
Nose horribly clogged today.
 
Oh, I hate that.
Wish you happy uncloggings
 
@TonyTheLion oh, nice to see the actually original bullshit video for that :P
it's even more horribly fake when you here the terrible sound effects
 
8:27 AM
@thecoshman lol
 
so yeah, reading the wiki page on concepts, them sound like a nice addition for sure, where they left out just because they felt they where not 'finished' working out how they would work?
 
@thecoshman Overly ambitious with no working proof-of-concept.
GCCConcept came a bit too late but made a good point of showing how hard to implement it was.
Also there were at least two competing proposals, or that might have been earlier in the process. Point being that it wasn't exactly settled on what concepts are or should be.
 
yeah, It sounds like a nicer way of doing things then something like Java generics, where you have to actually extend or implement a type. With concepts, the template function really does not care where you get a function from, just as long as you can call it it. At least, that's how I understand it...
 
@thecoshman An intended goal is to do more checking than 'as long as you can call it'.
It's not easy to do though.
 
@LucDanton oh?
 
8:38 AM
E.g. producing helpful diagnostics when trying to use std::map with something that doesn't fulfill a partial ordering.
Can't just check the 'pseudo-signature' (which I think is concept-talk for 'as long as you can call it') for that one.
 
yeah, templates really do know how to vomit all over your compiler output :P
 
Not in that case. Current implementations don't produce anything at all, and you get something at runtime (unless you're double-unlucky).
 
yiz
templates love attention, if you even change a line in a template class, you might end up compiling the whole system
 
@LucDanton oh? if you call foo() on a type that does not offer foo() you just get a runtime error? I thought that the type was resolved at compile time, and thus if that type has 'foo()' could be well known?
 
anyone familiar with MFC and want to chat about it? )
 
8:43 AM
no and no
 
Xeo
@thecoshman He means if you put something into a map that doesn't fulfill the strict-weak-ordering required by the map.
 
brb attempting to unclog nose by via scalding hot shower
 
@LucDanton o_0 may be not be the best solution...
 
@ScottW Same thing we do every night Pinky!
 
Xeo
It is night?
 
8:47 AM
@Xeo He's not called Pinky either.
 
Xeo
heh
@ScottW Do you want to sleep and can't, or do you just not want to sleep.
 
"Yes."
 
@ScottW drink, drink lots
@ScottW :P oh you
just call in sick... not right now obviously
 
@TonyTheLion hello Tony can we chat abaut MFC?
 
@Klasik I don't know too much about MFC, but you can try me
also MFC is terribad
 
8:58 AM
@ScottW then drink, lots, fast!
 
@ScottW fake it till you make it :P
 
so erm, concepts, kind of make SFINAE a damn site easy to understand and do, right?
 
@TonyTheLion yeah, KFC is much tastier :)
 
Xeo
Concepts are not only about the caller-site of the template-fence.
(or rather, are aimed not to be)
And also check the callee-size before any instantiation, to see if the usage of the constrained template parameters conforms to those constrains.
 
9:00 AM
> I love void main! Its a great way to pick out teachers to avoid.
lolwat
 
Xeo
To a*void*... badum-tish
@Xeo Erm, that should be s/callee-size/callee-side/
 
@TonyTheLion ok then. what actually peoples use at the moment to create visual applications on windows? i'm talking about those simple interfaces like calculator
 
Xeo
> stay the hell away from Schildt
STL <3
 
@Klasik Use .NET and C# for GUI type apps, fuck C++ for that
all GUI frameworks in C++ are pretty terrible, Qt is somewhat bearable, but only somewhat.
@ScottW No, because you're a cute dog
 
Qt had to reinvent C++ back when it was written
Now it's stuck with std-incompatible design and a bunch of preprocessing tools.
 
9:09 AM
Is there a room around here I can ask about a really low level ethernet stack question? I'm coding my own stack in VHDL and want to confirm something.
 
Xeo
> 42 milliseconds ago
Damn Reddit is accurate.
 
kek
@StaceyAnne Best to ask on Stack Overflow itself
 
@TonyTheLion I googled a lot for information how I can create something similar interface to this img66.imageshack.us/img66/8154/options12zd.png there u see treecontrol developed as menu. actually when pressing some item from treecontrol the all content changes to different groups, etc. its like tabcontrol controlled by treecontrol. I have no idea how write such interface. any suggestions?
 
@TonyTheLion wow reading seems to be a challenge.
 
@ScottW Okay sleep well. <3
 
9:14 AM
@rubenvb What?
 
@ScottW Fuck accepted. Have a nice sleep.
 
yes
 
Sometimes.
 
htmlayout ftw
 
Against my will, mostly.
 
9:15 AM
lol
 
@ScottW Well that wouldn't be against my will <33
 
@Klasik I'd say they just remove all existing controls on the form when a new item is clicked and then draw a bunch of new ones on the same form. The tree control is extant in most GUI frameworks. I think MFC would have something like CTreeCtrl, which if you want to add functionality to, you'd have to derive from this class. Examples of that can be found online I'm sure.
 
Byye.
 
@Klasik a tree/listview + tabcontrol with hidden tab names
 
@TonyTheLion so I thought its something that but when u develop design using resource manager in vs12 it will look mess up.... because there will be a lot of groups, etc.
 
9:25 AM
@Klasik Can't help you there, I'm not a UI expert by any stretch of the imagination, and I haven't done any UI design for a long time.
I generally avoid UI type stuff.
 
everyone try to avoid it
 
@thecoshman That's hard to answer. Those two ideas aren't really on the same level, and thus comparable.
 
@Abyx thx for reply. there is 100% treecontrol, probably that program writed manually. as @tonythelion says.
@TonyTheLion so what are u do instead of UI? )
 
@Klasik backend algorithm stuff
 
damnit...every time I think I have a question for SO I end up figuring it out :|
 
9:33 AM
@CaptainObvlious +1
that's why people who asks questions look stupid to me
 
yiz
@CaptainObvlious but you have already asked 3 questions
 
lol yeah I'm about to make an upvote device out of an arduino and glue it to my forehead
 
@TonyTheLion UI? CLI :)
 
@CaptainObvlious you will get smacked in teh face
 
@yiz didn't realize I had asked that many questions
 
9:37 AM
@thecoshman indeed
 
@TonyTheLion I think I need worker thread to such program as we talked about. Am I right?
 
@Klasik for network stuff, yea
 
@TonyTheLion u talking about network between like tabs things?
 
I'm talking about your network connections, they should live in a separate thread
 
There is a possibility I won't fail anything this semester
@TonyTheLion nope. It's perfectly reasonable to keep one thread for all the connections
It's usually faster, if you have stuff like epoll
 
9:47 AM
@BartekBanachewicz sigh, I meant in a separate thread to the GUI
stop that pedantry
it pisses me off
 
@TonyTheLion "separate thread" and "separate threads" is not pedantry. It completely changes the meaning
chill out.
 
happy now.
 
if that's what you really meant, sure.
 
I understood what you meant
Quite clear btw.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Czesc Bartek )))
 
9:50 AM
@Klasik while it's great that we speak the same language, people here aren't quite as good with it. Nevertheless, hi.
 
@TonyTheLion I was talking about that tactile reply you got for telling someone to ask on SO proper (not you, sorry)
 
@MarkGarcia If I could get away with immutable members, I would. (Of course, the fact there is no one 'get away' is part of the reason I can't.)
 
@BartekBanachewicz do u use facebook? I send request for u couple months ago. can u accept?
 
@Klasik I probably figured it's someone I don't know and thus I ignored it.
how am I supposed to know which one is you?
Also, pardon me, do I really know you?
 
@BartekBanachewicz no just from stack
 
9:54 AM
@LucDanton Yeah. I like conceptual constness better.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Viktor Suboč
 
lol facebook for people you've never met
 
@Klasik I don't add people that I don't really know.
 
I like to actually know what my friends are and look like.
 
@rubenvb heh, I am going to meet Tomalak someday.
 
9:56 AM
There's been a few meets originating in this room
That's pretty awesome.
 
@rubenvb oh I see
@rubenvb I've met some people in this room IRL
pretty cool
 
Not so furry as you'd have imagined, I bet.
 
@TonyTheLion Tony it what u say is it mean that i'm using worker thread wrong? I used it to check if the program is still working and if not i'm closing application
 
while(::FindWindow(NULL, *pnEditBoxValue))
::Sleep(500);
pDlg->EndDialog(0);
 
9:58 AM
I am not going to UK anytime soon, too bad
 
that's in worker thread
 
if I have a vector and i want to remove from it all elements that are in some other vector is there a Known Best Way..... Im thinking gazillion things... erase remove (binary search on onther after sorting it), std::set_difference after sorting them both....
 
@Klasik blergh is that WinApi?
@NoSenseEtAl that will be costly operation no matter what
 
@Klasik you need to read how to do threading properly. Using sleep shows me you haven't done much reading.
 
@BartekBanachewicz MFC
 
9:59 AM
When I used threading last I read half a tomb on the subject
 
@NoSenseEtAl for (each unique in vec2) remove_if(from vec1)
 
@BartekBanachewicz I'm not going to Poland anytime soon either
 
@TonyTheLion Let's visit Cicada, that's halfway :)
 
@NoSenseEtAl Best you can do is O(n + m) in the size of the vectors.
 
@BartekBanachewicz oh France. Could do.
 
10:00 AM
@BartekBanachewicz lets say I dont care about perf that much... aka I can take constant hit...but not complexity one... @DeadMG they arent sorted, so I think I cant go that fast
 
@DeadMG that's if they're sorted.
 
@DeadMG that requires sortable elements, no?
 
no
you can also use a hash table for lookups if you can pay O(n) extra space.
 
ah.
well but mine would be ok, no?
1 min ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
@NoSenseEtAl for (each unique in vec2) remove_if(from vec1)
 
if you do the sortability thing, then you have to pay some extra log(n) factors on top too, of course
@BartekBanachewicz It's uselessly vague. That's obviously the basic description of what he wants to do. Something more concrete is called for.
 
10:02 AM
"each unique" suggests set cache
 
@BartekBanachewicz that's ok. (i'm about u don't add people which u don't know) I thought there will be good to have people to chat about programing...
 
and remove_if is, I guess, kinda obvious, no?
@Klasik that's what SO chat is for, I guess. Not only but yeah.
 
@Klasik please use the little reply to message arrow thingies instead of typing someone's name. Keeps the flow of conversation.
 
@DeadMG the magic of O(1) -courtesy of hash map :) I think Ill just go the set_difference route... easy to read, and sizes are kind of small so I wont suffer too much... I was more asking if there is a known The Right Way... @BartekBanachewicz tnx for the help
 
> char (*create_mappings(size_t n))[2] {
 
10:04 AM
@rubenvb ok
 
lol wat.
2
A: How to return a 2d array where one dimension is of unknown size?

AndreyT(Following up on my answer to the linked question.) The direct (yet rather convoluted) syntax for this would be char (*create_mappings(size_t n))[2] { // Allocate an char[n][2] array char (*mappings)[2] = new char[n][2]; // Initailize `mappings[i][j]` in any way you want... return map...

 
@Klasik Great! Thanks.
People should stop using 2D arrays
 
@rubenvb that's a good tip ))
 
My language will not have ND arrays.
because well, there's really no such things.
 
Oh @DeadMG, now that I can drive, we could meet somewhere halfway or something someday?
 
10:09 AM
uf fucking uni assignments using 2010 MFC
fuck you and your C/C++
 
@TonyTheLion i'm just start learning and I find out how its works )
 
right
 
crap what the hell am I supposed to do now
 
donno
 
use qt
 
10:14 AM
I am not installing 2010 just to get MFC
@Mikhail can you help me in rewrite? It really has to "just work"
 
What? 2012 doesn't have MFC?
 
it doesn't have the file I need.
 
urgh
suckage
 
afxwin.h and 3 others
 
¬_¬ I love comments private Foo foo; // this is the Foo reference for when we need to do things with a Foo
 
10:15 AM
lol
 
there's some MFC include folder but the stuff I need is simply missing
@thecoshman reference my ass
 
blargh
 
not can't be true, VS2012 has mfc
 
@BartekBanachewicz we don't want to reference your ass :/
 
@Mikhail now show me how to create MFC project then. In my install it's missing
 
10:16 AM
This is how I feel about creating these tests I have to create :/
 
@BartekBanachewicz you have the express or pro version?
 
its in mine
 
@rubenvb Ultimate
is it possible I skipped it during installation?
 
probably
 
@BartekBanachewicz hint: java
 
10:18 AM
uh now where's that install file.
@thecoshman ah
 
@TonyTheLion (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
 
@BartekBanachewicz you can always click on "online" and open an MFC sample and start from there.
 
@rubenvb I can't find MFC sample in online templates
searching for "MFC" yields no results, categories don't have it too
I would just write it for GCC, but crapfuck it needs GUI
Qt might be the best option TBH
It only needs 2 buttons and a drawing area
how hard is that in Qt?
 
very very easy
 
10:19 AM
@BartekBanachewicz dead easy
 
(not OpenGL, but someshit like GDI, I don't need it to be fast)
okay, let's try then
 
Qt is dead simple for simple GUIs
 
prog.cpp:29:58: internal compiler error: in cxx_eval_bit_field_ref, at cp/semantics.c:6977
 
I have QtC, so I need to get Qt now I guess
 
probably would be easier to do it in c# and link against a C++ export
 
10:20 AM
@CaptainObvlious good job!
@Mikhail I can't "link against C++ export"
 
haven't had an internal error in quite some time
 
I mean, how do I do that :P
 
@rubenvb that looks good.
 
step 1 build qt (takes 1.5 hours)
make sure not to include webkit
 
10:21 AM
@Mikhail download and install. Takes 10 minutes.
 
doesn't support x64
 
also, Qt is fairly well documented, should be easy to use
 
@BartekBanachewicz the bottom is two buttons and something the buttons modify.
 
I am downloading both
 
@Mikhail so what? Not relevant here.
 
10:22 AM
one is x64 VS2012 and other is 4.7 x86
I really don't care which one I use
 
wow their prebuilt versions are really all over the place huh
 
should take about 3 minutes
 
I got lost in the Qt5 jungle.
 
I shouldn't really rewrite that shit, but I have to turn this
and uh.
I will prolly lose more time if I use that crap the tutor wrote
 
lol instead of reinstalling MFC we got you to use Qt.
 
10:23 AM
why not.
 
indeed.
It's nice and simple on the GUI coding.
 
I am starting to be really prejudiced to stuff that's not cross-platform
also to stuff that's not open-compilers
 
qt requires about 4 dlls
 
e.g. DirectX
 
to go with the exe
 
10:25 AM
@Mikhail okay.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Me too. I like the freedom of moving on and knowing lots of platforms will be able to run my code.
 
okay, VS version will be faster
uh
 
@Mikhail Don't really.. see much of an issue.
 
1.46GB
my SSD is going to be really sad. I need another one.
 
lol
 
10:28 AM
@Rapptz he should get ready to walk the depends.exe
 
@Mikhail uh, no. Just add Qt/bin to PATH and be done with it.
 
@rubenvb Good for a dev machine, bad for a deployment
 
Just add CONFIG += static to your .pro file
:D
 
Thats a new one to me
does it work?
 
Yes
It's LGPL though so licensing and what not
 
10:30 AM
and the fact you need to build Qt with -static
 
yep
DLLs are okay though and 4 isn't that bad.
Already linked it before.
hmm
 
Intel updater keeps all previous updaters in my "documents" folder
I mean uh why
 
:D
 
10:32 AM
dude.
 
was already posted before
 
Hey Tony!
 
that's really cool that it keeps 4 previous installs of Intel Inspector
I could need them someday, no?
 
10:38 AM
You never know
 
I know
 
yiz
I know that you will never know
 
looks like that bug hasn't been reported yet
 
I too suffer from having too many copies of Intel inspector. I only need the latest.
actually this is an outrage
 
10:44 AM
@CaptainObvlious is she yours
 
@Mikhail apparently so. couldn't find squat on it
 
so are Haskell typeclasses a bit like duck typing?
 
user142019
Nah.
 
user142019
They're a bit like concepts.
 
I hated functional languages ever since my job required scheme. I find myself writing functions like Add_1
 
user142019
10:52 AM
C++ templates (without SFINAE) are like duck typing.
 
you know, if I played some sort of 'enterprise code' drinking game, where you take just a tiny sip of shandy for each terrible terrible thing I see, I would not get to the end of the day with out series alcohol poisoning.
 
@thecoshman like teh Java
 
user142019
class Serializable a where
    serialize :: a -> ByteString
    deserialize :: ByteString -> a

instance Serializable ByteString where
    serialize = id
    deserialize = id

send :: Serializable a => Socket -> a -> IO ()
send s x = writeSocket s (serialize x)
-- send works on every type that is an instance of Serializable, e.g. ByteString
 
it's just not even funny how shit this code is
 
10:59 AM
@thecoshman This?
 
most of bad code I encounter at work is shitty array management
but that's only because people don't know about array and everybody is still too lazy to update compilers on linux
 

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