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12:01 AM
Lol: "API Parity – Sublime Text 3 now has full API parity with Sublime Text 2"
Goes on to say:
> Please note that while Sublime Text 3 supports all the API functionality in Sublime Text 2, plugins are by default not source compatible, and must be ported.
 
Sublime Text 3 seems weird tbh
 
That just does my brain in. Too much marketing
 
No updates for a year and then you charge for a new version?
 
Mostly because people don't buy the old one
Probably
 
got to sleep now, and you too @sehe, nite
 
12:03 AM
I've seen many people say it's free because it doesn't shut down after 30 days on its own
 
I meant for those who bought v2
They have to pay an upgrade fee
 
You bought a text editor
You're a sucker
 
I'm glad you can empathise but that's still not the point
 
Eh, charging for major upgrades is not new
It's not nice, but hey, you bought a text editor
What the fuck were you thinking
 
Anyways. It is useful after all, that isocpp blogs some SO questions:
Now I could help have [this one](http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15322058/is-there-a-use-case-for-stdfunction-that-is-not-covered-by-function-pointers) closed as a dupe!
 
12:06 AM
(Coincidentally probably majority of their user base is Mac users, and they'll buy anything)
2
 
@CatPlusPlus What's the big deal? Why should it be "dumb" to pay for quality? There might not be a need but there can certainly be good reason
 
Isn't TextMate free?
 
@Rapptz It is for @Zoidberg :<
 
Coincidentally all Mac text editors are not free
 
12:06 AM
It says here it's open source
 
Suckers
 
with GPL license
lol
 
Well that would be new
 
> Version 2.0 of TextMate is being developed as open source. This doesn’t change that TextMate is a commercial product, and while current prebuilt binaries work without a license key, they may need one in the future.
 
12:07 AM
lol
 
Makes sense
They're very smart
 
A lot of it.
Negative sense
 
Doesn't make sense to me
 
They'll probably close-source it sooner or later.
 
@CatPlusPlus Crowd source it! Like NASA tried, last year
 
12:08 AM
but what do I know
 
@ThePhD They can't
Or: whatever they upload now will be GPL forever
Even if they decide to close future versions
 
Yup
 
:smartbusinesspractices:
 
So how does the proprietary thing work?
 
GPL technically states that they just have to release their source code, but they an do whatever they want with it after that.
 
12:10 AM
I mean, I understand how Qt's dual licensing thing works but not this
 
@sehe :(
 
@ThePhD You can always do whatever you want with your code
But whoever downloads this code can distribute it along on GPL terms
 
@MooingDuck Something tells me the debian dev is French guy. It's like spring tide applied to bad temperaments, maybe?
 
Even if they close the future version
You can't relicense retroactively
 
whoda thunk that there's a cute coder on SO?
 
12:12 AM
@CatPlusPlus I thought GPL was viral. Wouldn't that require the new version to be contributed back to GPL too?
 
1 point.
 
I concur :)
 
@sehe No, because original developer holds all the rights
 
@sehe 'GPL is viral' is FUD. I think you know that, so don't make it look like you're using it non-ironically!
 
@ThePhD well, she clearly just started asking questions.
 
12:13 AM
@Code-Guru :cripes:
 
@LucDanton Well, honestly, I don't care much. It's just that you hear it so much, there must be a core nugget of logic to it, right?
 
I honestly find it questionable.
 
@LucDanton Is it a specific flavour then? GLP1/2/3? LGPL? It's too much for my brain interest
 
Just 'the GPL is viral'.
 
12:15 AM
@LucDanton I didn't say it was, did I. Perhaps I should have said "I heard GPL was supposed to be "viral""
 
Ya it can go either way in the context.
 
It's the "must disclose source" clause
 
So then, I haven't found out what people mean when they say 'the GPL is viral', other than 'Oh no I have to pay attention what license the software I am using requires me to adhere to'.
 
That code based on GPL is considered derivative and must be GPL too
And that "based on" includes just linking GPL objects into your binaries
 
The latter part seems to me like the only one exception to the rule
 
12:19 AM
That's why libstdc++ comes with special clauses that explicitly say your software doesn't become GPL by using standard library
 
The 'GPL is viral claim' would make sense if those people making the claim would also rule on what proprietary software that won't let you do any modification, source or binary, should be called.
 
That's why GPL libraries are shit
 
(explaining how ZFS can be in a linux kernel module, albeit CDDL-licensed, as long as it is built separately and loaded dynamically)
 
GPL libraries are shit
 
@sehe Kernel situation is bit complicated
I don't remember how vendors get around this stuff, but it involved a lot of teeth grinding from FSF AFAIR
Anyway GPL is crap
It's too complicated and it's shoved down your throat whenever you dare look at GPL code
Permissive licensing ftw
And I'm going to sleep
 
12:26 AM
sweet GPL free dreams
 
HOTS comes out tomorrow :D
 
HOTS?
 
has been out for the last 90 minutes in the EU.
 
bleh
 
12:34 AM
@DeadMG Well damn you!
 
Hm.
make_unique doesn't exist in the namespace std, it doesn't seem.
Guess I gotta make my own.
 
admit it..you'd have made your own anyway! :p
 
No, because I tried to use makue_unique first.
 
@CatPlusPlus Microsoft has the same in the license for it's "free source code" - someone quoted it here. It says roughly "if you looked at this code you are not allowed to ever develop something that resembles .NET framework code on windows (IIRC)".
It's in the chat transcript somewhere but I carn't find it. Oh wait, lemme try the C# room
in C#, Jan 6 at 1:49, by CC Inc
@sehe http://referencesource.microsoft.com/referencesourcelicensing.aspx
 
Lol
"You may only look. Do not touch. Do not pass go. And you'd better be ready to get fucked if you collect $200."
 
12:40 AM
So I got it reversed. It specifically says you cannot go and develop things "like .NET" for non-windows OSes
in C#, Jan 6 at 1:52, by CC Inc
 who is not engaged in designing, developing, or testing other software, for a non-Windows operating system
in C#, Jan 6 at 1:53, by Kendall Frey
> ... that has the same or substantially the same features or functionality as the software.
 
Oh, wow.
How did Mono get past this nugget?
 
On that note. I'm off to bed.
 
Oh wait.
As long as you can verify that you've never agreed to MSRSL or whatever
 
@ThePhD They make it a BIG point to warn people about not accessing the reference sources if they ever want to be a contributor to Mono
 
You can develop a .NET-alike all day.
Wait a sec.
 
12:42 AM
Uhoh. You're tainted!
 
@ThePhD u dun goofed
 
@ThePhD Dead in the water!
 
Did @Xeo go to bed?
 
I specifically disallow ReSharper to download the reference sources for this kind of reason.
(lol)
 
This conversation never happened. >_>
 
12:43 AM
Indeed. I'm of to bed
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Unfortunately not
I really should have
 
Not that it matters if you do.
 
Xeo
but Youtube, Quantum Physics and all that stuff got the better of me. :)
 
Your German Sleeptalking is too strong by now.
 
Well, it's your choice. I don't want to retain you.
 
Xeo
12:48 AM
Nah, go on
 
howudoin?
 
@Xeo So, it doesn't matter that we can't actually call a lambda. I'm interested in checking the validity of its body, and that only requires e.g. instantiation.
 
user1357851
who's mr adams?
 
@Telkitty Your estranged father.
 
How do I invite an SO user to a chat?
 
12:50 AM
The really, really clever part of the false?: trick is that you still get the type of the lambda, assuming that it really is a valid constant expr.
I figure asking for &T::operator() is about enough to instantiate. And that's about it.
 
user1357851
 
Xeo
@LucDanton The thing is, without instantiating it, how would you get its type? Or more specifically, its signature from from the conversion to function pointer? After all, return type can be deduced.
So it should have to instantiate the lambda
 
@DomagojPandža You always pop up at weird times. I never expect it. :O
 
@Telkitty well..that's if I wanted to invite them here...
 
@Xeo The conversion is not used.
 
Xeo
12:52 AM
Although the expression is never actually evaluated.
 
and as much as I love all you guys...
 
Oh wait.
 
@ThePhD I have weird sleep patterns. :D
 
and gals
 
@Code-Guru Click on their gravatar and go to the option that says "invite this user to another room."
 
Xeo
12:52 AM
@LucDanton The type of the conversion return is used, though
And to determine that type, you need to know what's in the lambda body.
 
I don't think so? We're considering false ? addr(lambda) : nullptr aren't we?
 
@DomagojPandža Join the club!
 
Not false ? +lambda : nullptr. Which I guess would work as well?
 
Xeo
Uhm... damn, true. I thought for a second it used the function pointer conversion
 
@Xeo Yeah, but blame the language designers for leaving that loophole in :p
I would like to think that's all within the rules.
(Keep in mind implementations are allowed to reject any constant expressions they don't like anyway.)
error: reached the implementation limit of how much we like you
 
user1357851
12:55 AM
@DomagojPandža sweet, so I get to celebrate his b'day with cakes (more specifically cake pics, no)?
 
@ThePhD What if they aren't in chat but are active on SO?
 
@Code-Guru Then you're fucked. There's no private-messaging system, but they might get a PLINK to come join your chat from whatever they are in SO.
Give it a shot, wait patiently.
 
Xeo
[20:54:23] <zygoloid> question is, if i have: template<typename T> void f(int [0 && ([]{}(),0)]); twice in my program, are they the same function?
[20:54:51] <Xeo> Oh, good point
[20:54:52] <Xeo> :(
[20:56:14] <zygoloid> Xeo: ultimately, the question is whether [basic.def.odr]p6 applies to the parts of a function template definition which are part of the declaration
[20:56:44] <Xeo> I can see the problem though, yeah.
[20:59:20] <zygoloid> afaics, right now, [temp.over.link]p5 redirects to [basic.def.odr]p6 to determine whether the expressions are the same, and [basic.def.odr]p6 says the la
@LucDanton ^ I forgot to quote that part earlier
 
Yeah, right. We settled on default arguments, logically template arguments. Didn't we?
 
Hm.
If a resource is copiable,
does that imply that it is also moveable ?
 
user1357851
12:59 AM
@Code-Guru why do you want to invite someone you don't know personally into a chat?
 
Xeo
I don't think we did, since we didn't establish yet whether default arguments actually allow for SFINAE, no? We settled for template parameter, from what I remember.
 
I don't have a paragraph 6 in basic.def.odr -- those are references against the working draft correct?
@Xeo Remember the old typename = EnableIf<foo>?
I also tend to use typename = decltype( expr to sfinae against ).
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Yeah, but that's not guaranteed to work it seems.
I dunno if you saw my question on that.
 
Yeah, that's not too surprising.
 
Yo lads.
 
1:01 AM
template<typename T> void f(int [0 && ([]{}(),0)]);
Damn, this is nasty.
 
Xeo
7
Q: Do non-dependent default template arguments of function templates allow for SFINAE?

XeoWith "non-dependent" here I mean "non-dependent on any other template arguments of that specific function template". While answering this question, I thought I found the answer, but according to @Johannes (in the comments to my answer), I'm misinterpreting the standard here. Take the following s...

^ if you didn't
 
o_O
 
Xeo
I discussed that with R Smith, and as I mentioned before, he sent a mail to CWG
 
@Xeo Is the answer 'yes' to the question btw?
Uh, 'non-dependent' is not what this is about.
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Yeah, but that part turned out to be irrelevant
I think
I might be confused right now
@LucDanton Yes, since the lambdas must be considered equal, which means they must play into whether two functions are equal, which would mean they need to be mangled. :/
 
1:03 AM
@Telkitty because the comments are getting long and I feel like being helpful...
 
Xeo
Which was the reason for banning them from unevaluated contexts in the first place.
 
Right. And we don't want to impose that on implementations -- any loophole allowing for that would be an outright defect.
 
Xeo
Aye
If you clicked the link to the mailing earlier, that's what R Smith said
 
I can't imagine how template<typename T, EnableIf<is_foo<decltype( /* use T somehow */)>>...> should work already tbh :s
 
Xeo
@LucDanton I think that's different from the lambda problem
 
1:08 AM
Is it? template<typename T, RequiresUsable<Usage([](T& lvalue) { /* use lvalue somehow */})> = 0>
 
Xeo
decltype(stuff) wouldn't need to encode stuff in the signature in any way, only its type, which is enough for linking.
@LucDanton The problem here is with the equality of lambdas, as far as I understood it
 
@Xeo If you have several overloads, as is customary when doing that kind of SFINAE, then they all functionally boil down to template<typename T, enabled...>. They potentially have the same signature.
 
user1357851
@Code-Guru sounds more like you are hitting on the person :p
 
@Xeo How germane is that? What about a use case where I have only one definition and no other declaration, only one TU ever?
 
Xeo
@LucDanton ODR still applies, meaning the implementation has to mangle - it can't know what you will do in the future with the TU
@LucDanton Lemme think about that for a bit
 
1:11 AM
I did talk about that with Johannes, because I wanted a better alternative than typename = EnableIf</* ... * />, typename /* Dummy */ = void for multiple overloads with same signature.
@Xeo If I modify the TU, it's a different program. There is no 'in the future'.
 
user1357851
it would nice to have a display on exact how many people are viewing this chat like (registered user:30, guests:12) or something
 
(C++-wise, implementations proceed differently of course.)
 
Xeo
@LucDanton You could link it later with a different TU :/
 
Which would be a different program, yes.
 
Telkitty, please let the relevant discussion on lambda equality proceed uninterrupted.
 
Xeo
1:13 AM
mmm, I can't get a hold of R Smith right now. :<
 
Yeah okay, admittedly that's a specious line of reasoning. Implementations will take care to make their rules work before following the Standard for those matters.
 
user1357851
I need to write to my ideas down somewhere coz I am a fast forgetter
 
@Xeo Don't bother. This all relies on the simplistic program model of the Standard, which doesn't have libraries or linking.
 
Xeo
Hm
 
Non-Hell++ implementations will care about mangling.
 
Xeo
1:17 AM
I honestly don't know how to answer that, I must admit. I guess the standard itself doesn't particularly care, and only describes stuff like that vaguely through the odr.
 
So the thing is, that means that typename = /* dependent */ is in a good place.
It doesn't require too much magic on the linking/mangling part, because the 'template signature' is unique.
And arguably you push the matter of performing SFINAE to the front-end.
So even if we don't allow typename = decltype( /* lambda is involved */ ), ditto sizeof/unevaluated operand thingies, I think we should consider making/letting NonType = Bar(false ? /* lambda is involved */ : nullptr) or other similar set-ups work.
It's not like you can call the lambda, constant-expr context or not. (Yes, that's a take-that for the Pythy thingy.)
 
Xeo
@LucDanton It just hit me - they do not. If some overload is enabled, it's for that particular type - and you can't have more than one function for the same signature generated, since otherwise the call itself would've been ambiguous already.
 
Hah, that's a funny implementation.
 
Xeo
?
 
"Put the definition here, it matches whichever declaration survives"
 
Xeo
1:24 AM
Err
 
From a language point of view, all overlapping definitions exist, except that you can only ever use at most one of them at a time.
@Xeo So is that a go for RequiresUsage<Bar(false ? /* lambda is involved */ : nullptr)> or what? :p
@Xeo Unrelated but if you don't like ellipsis conversions you can always write template<typename... Ignored> otherwise(Ignored const&..., ...);
 
Xeo
@LucDanton I think ellipsis is clearer, since it's defined as the least-preferred. I had to think for a bit for the variadic template one, and it's only better because of SCS (derived-to-base) vs UCS.
 
Um.
... Hm. I'll hold my peace. I can do this one...
 
But... that means you'd want (...) over (otherwise) then no?
 
@ThePhD ?
 
1:31 AM
@Xeo Ah, an empty ellipsis never matters?
 
@Telkitty lol, this isn't the cutie that I was drooling over earlier.
 
Xeo
@LucDanton I'd actually have to check whether it's the conversion that makes it least-preferred, or the parameter declaration itself
 
@Rapptz It's okay, I got it. :D
 
okay
 
Xeo
Hm. I wanted to see what mangled names GCC and Clang produce, but it turns out those bastards unmangle them or sth.
 
1:32 AM
@Xeo I'm thinking you're right, the ellipsis alone doesn't cut it.
@Xeo objdump I think?
Sorry, nm.
 
Xeo
Hmm
 
Awww.
I can't invoke operator[] with a template return. =[
That's another thing to add to my language design: the ability to do myshit<int>[0]
 
user1357851
@Code-Guru I don't count of you and your cuties ...
 
Xeo
$ nm t.o
                 U _Z1fI1ZLi0EEvOT_
0000000000000000 T main
                 U memset
$ nm u.o
                 U _Z1fI1ZLi0EEvOT_
0000000000000000 T _Z1gv
                 U memset
With
template<class T, decltype(T().foo) = 0>
void f(T&&);

struct Z{ int foo, bar; };
// other TU
template<class T, decltype(T().bar) = 0>
void f(T&&);
Same Z
@LucDanton I think ODR or something applies here, though
 
is anyone in here familiar with WPF?
 
1:41 AM
A little.
@ThePhD is too.
 
Nope.
I know nothing.
 
ok, have you worked with WindowChrome?
 
@Xeo I would think it does, yes.
 
Nope.
You might have luck on Stack Overflow.
The C# tag is like, loaded with people.
 
Xeo
1:44 AM
@LucDanton Y'know, with ambiguous calls being ill-formed, there should never be an instance for a well-formed program where the definitions of multiple overlapping overloads exist at the same time without violating ODR.
But I have a question: How did we get to actually questioning this again?
 
Too tired to try and check if that's true :(
 
Xeo
Oh, right, your thoughts about EnableIf<is_foo<decltype(...)>>... being actually valid
 
FUCK YEAH
My interface dabes.
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Atleast immediately, I can't see how that could be possible.
 
1:45 AM
ok, just in case, here is my question
-1
Q: WPF Custom Chrome Window?

Elite Gameri have been trying to make something along the lines of this... I have looked and looked and only found this article. I am having trouble integrating this into my application. I just started WPF today, so i am learning. I have downloded the window.Shell dLL. What else do i need? Thanks!

i am offering a bounty for it
 
@Ell ... Wha... WHAT THE FUCK
I AM NOT THE LOUNGE SLUT. D:<
If anything, I hate all of you.
Each and every one of you.
 
what about me :(
 
With the intensity of a thousand yellow stars. =l
 
a lot
 
@ThePhD rofl, where does that expression come from. I've heard it before
 
1:48 AM
@Borgleader It's thousand suns
He's trying to be cute with yellow stars
 
I was going to say Blue Stars, but I don't know how hot they are.
 
lol so you picked "yellow"
 
Xeo
In any case, I think I'll go to sleep now after all.
 
Well, yeah.
Yellow stars are pretty hot.
 
Not really
ultra violet vs infrared
the blue one is probably hotter
 
Xeo
1:50 AM
G'night
 
Night.
 
Niiiiight.
... Not that I care. I still hate you.
 
Bye
 
Hater!
I have to admit that chrome window is fucking ugly
 
Xeo
@ThePhD Wait, what?
 
1:52 AM
Oh. I'm just saying I hate everyone.
Because, uh...
.... Reasons.
THEY'RE LEGITIMATE REASONS I SWEAR.
 
Xeo
Ah, just another case of "You suck." Okay, nothing to see here, will be moving along. :)
 
He sucks at programming and needs to vent
 
I do not suck!
 
<3
 
In fact, I think I'd make the both of you proud with what I just created.
 
1:53 AM
make_unique?
 
Xeo
I think we've proven plenty today that you, in fact, do suck. :3
 
Well, then
 
It's like 3 LoC
 
Prepare to be amazed!
... Not that I need you to be amazed.
I know it's amazing already.
So there.
Hmph.
You can have a HORRIBLE NIGHT.
 
I don't know what this is
but congrats I guess
 
1:55 AM
And yoou, Rapptz, can take your hearts elsewhere BECAUSE I DON'T WANT THEM. >:c
 
ok
 
user1357851
 
@Rapptz It's a resource cache! Can't you tell? It holds resources and deletes them when they're removed from the cache.
It's even type-agnostic, meaning multiple different pieces of shit can be stored in it. All day. Everyday.
There's only 1 tiny line of code I'm not sure about in there.
But, uh.
.. But the rest is great.
 
Xeo
@ThePhD Your Add method is empty, I hope you know that. Congrats for reimplementing a less good boost::any. Why do you have null? And your own ptr?
 
@Xeo I know it's empty. :c
 
Xeo
1:59 AM
(Other than that, good job. :P)
 
!!! Ahnnnnn Xeo said I did good~
.... Erm. Not that it matters. Just, y'know. Stuff.
 
Xeo
I'll bash and burn the code in detail tomorrow at work.
 
;~;
Noooooo
 
I've made/seen better boost::any copies
Do you have any casts?
 
Maybe.
 
2:02 AM
Maybe?!
You should add some.
 
can I get some reverse engineering help here??
I guess not
 
2:26 AM
Oh the nastalgia...
 
2:39 AM
Oof...
I'm really stuck now. >_<
 
get out the paint thinner!
 
Wtf is this, you can buy a volvo for 1 pound in england o.o (ok like 8 years ago, im watching old episodes of top gear)
 
user1357851
I am amazed there are more barbie cakes than chocolate barbies
 

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