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Xeo
9:00 AM
What I was mostly wondering about (note, I don't know any better yet), is alteration of the packet length or end-of-packet markers, which would make me read garbage
 
could be an upper class thing, I guess
 
sbi
@thecoshman How do you think you would know this? it's wrong! I did not learn it from the English, I learned it from Merkians.
@DeadMG Could well be your awareness.
 
@sbi I meant that is an English phrase as well
 
sbi
Anyway, I'm afk now. I have stuff to do.
 
@sbi Possible, but not especially likely.
have funcakes
 
9:00 AM
@DeadMG quite. now fetch me my smoking jacket
 
whuh?
 
@sbi correction, you are about go AFK
@DeadMG pip pip!
 
@thecoshman Correction, if he's reading this, he's still not AFK
 
@DeadMG I'd agree. Although you could viciously add that Britains fleet just lost hegemony at sea :)
 
the 1930s called, they want their catchphrase back
@sehe Lost hegemony at sea :P
 
9:02 AM
@Neil but he will be AFK soon, or already
 
but sea power didn't keep us the colonies. it just stopped the other European nations from fighting us for them
 
@DeadMG I guess I was looking for 'retain'. Fixed
 
plus, Britain lost sea hegemony after the First World War. That's still a good 30-40 years before they all went.
for example, India, independence 1947, 30 years after WW1 ended.
 
morning.
 
ewwww
y u C/C++
 
9:06 AM
@DeadMG +1. Even C#/C++ would be less offensive.
 
@DeadMG because I'm referring to two languages. What's so difficult to grasp?
 
Xeo
1 message moved to bin
 
because one of those languages has fuck all to do with the question?
 
Xeo
Sorry, @daknøk, too offensive!
 
9:06 AM
@thecoshman When he comes back and reads this, the statement "He is AFK" will technically be inaccurate
 
@Xeo abuse of power!
 
@JohnB it is by that logic a valid answer on an estimated 40% of c/cpp questions here. I'd call that an IBM answer: correct but absolutely useless. My vote of -1 — sehe 2 mins ago
There ^ fixed
 
One can never write "I am AFK" and be truthful
 
Xeo
7 mins ago, by Xeo
What I was mostly wondering about (note, I don't know any better yet), is alteration of the packet length or end-of-packet markers, which would make me read garbage
^ nobody? :(
 
@Neil only for the duration that he was, when he comes back, the correct statement would be, "he was afk"
 
9:08 AM
@Xeo IPSec.
 
@thecoshman True, but only another can say that about him. He cannot say he was afk to be accurate when he returns unless he was referring to a previous time in which he was afk
 
@DeadMG except he comment is referring to both languages, get over it
 
@Xeo fu :<
 
@Neil which is why he should say he is going or he will be
 
Xeo
@daknøk Be glad I didn't flag it
:P
 
9:09 AM
@Xeo although if you sanity check input at the protocol level you could rely on the OS to do the necessary checks on the highler layers
 
@daknøk You can just move it back, you know
 
@thecoshman I think that's the only thing you could say and be accurate :P
 
Xeo
I think I should just get a good book on network programming. Any recommendations?
 
@Xeo Cry.
 
@DeadMG I have no writing rights in bin.
 
9:10 AM
@DeadMG My statement doesn't mean to limit itself to that single question. I thought that was evident from my comment
 
Xeo
@DeadMG That doesn't sound very promising
 
@sehe "Something is wrong with your code. Therefore you should fix it." - I wonder how many questions on SO that would be a valid answer to...
 
@Xeo I know it can be missing a point, but do you really have to reinvent networking? daknøk's avatar is one good example, that it's already been done.
 
Xeo
@Mysticial Most likely, all non-theoretical questions :D
 
@daknøk You do now, uglyface.
 
9:11 AM
How do I know.
 
by the way, have I mentioned that you have a really ugly face.
 
@Mysticial If they are a good fit for SO, I'd say pretty much by definition. Save for the few cases where there is a hardware, OS, library or compiler bug :)
 
@DeadMG Yes, but that is 1) false and 2) something you don't know since you have never seen it.
 
@daknøk italicized usernames
 
@sehe in the Lounge, yes.
 
9:12 AM
@sehe So we should rephrase it to, "Something is wrong. You should do something about it."
 
@daknøk How do you know I haven't?
 
As if I ever post something in the bin.
 
I could be a le creepy stalker
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz I don't want to reinvent it. I was reading through the eAthena (a Ragnarok Online server emulator) source yesterday, and they had some packet definition stuff, which got me thinking
 
@daknøk I'm a Bin owner as well as a Lounge owner.
and now your ugly face is a Bin owner as well as a Lounge owner.
 
Xeo
9:13 AM
@DeadMG You don't need to be a bin owner
 
all the owners should have the power to Bin and Unbin stuff.
 
Xeo
You might aswell move it to the PHP room, if you like (I think)
 
even ugly ones
ugly
 
The bin should be a hardlink to the PHP room.
 
@DeadMG "Could be" - Come on, don't beat around the bush.
 
9:13 AM
@Xeo well, reading it just for some knowledge could be k. Still, are you planning to use anything from it?
 
@sehe Fifty years from now, I invent time travel and travel back to the past so that I both am and am not a creepy stalker simultaneously.
 
Xeo
Well, I'm interested in writing online games, so I think I'd need to have some packet definitions and worry about corruption there :)
 
I want food.
brb
 
Because I tend not to dig into absolute understanding of the articles/code I don't find can help me in the future.
 
AAARGH
now I remember! I remember the thing with the things that things!
3
 
9:15 AM
And IMHO, at the current point we have so many ready frameworks, that writing your own networking is just unnecessary
(that can be tuned for both latency and speed)
 
Xeo
But the fun~
 
sbi
> I make robots out of tin foil, then laugh at their pathetic attempts to rise up and overthrow me. — John Moynes
 
Depends what you find most fun at when writing, of course. If you like technical details of networking, cool. I prefer writing a game (thus - it's logic).
 
@DeadMG Have I got news for you: I happen to know for a fact that this already happened, and you are in fact both a chat room troll and a ultra-radical politician at this very moment
 
Anyway, take a look at zeroc.com (open source)
 
Xeo
9:17 AM
I like writing game logic, but I'm just really interested in this networking stuff
 
@sehe trololololololololoroflol
 
ok, I'm seriously starting to think that I've broken gcc
 
right
last job, last fuckshitballs cover letter
I'm not sure how eager I am to apply to this position since they mention the languages involved about five times and I strongly suspect that the advert was put together by a program that doesn't work properly
 
Speaking about searching jobs : have you guys ever found a reliable way of telling, during an interview, if the team has good programming habits ?
 
give them a sample of Clang's source code and ask them if it's good
 
9:26 AM
what kind of habits? "Good programming habits" can mean a lot of things
 
When you ask the interviewer, he usually answers "yeah, some of use git" or "we document our code, obviously" but you really can't judge on his words
And it doesn't seem appropriate to ask to see some code. Or is it ?
 
"some" use git?
 
@jalf He means "Floss your teeth once a day." is something all good programmers should make a habit.
 
Yeah, that I was told once. The team uses SVN, but some of them use Git over SVN
To ease the pain.
What, isn't "habit" the appropriate word ?
 
@DeadMG Just drop a dime in the pond. You might get lucky. Even nice companies sometimes fail at acquisition, or you just reached them via one of their 'neglected' channels
 
9:27 AM
well, that tells you two things: (1) the company uses SVN, and (2) they do allow a certain freedom and initiative
 
@sehe Yeah, I figured that.
 
@ereOn It's fine, but there are a lot of different kinds of habits, and it's not clear to me what you're interested in
 
@jalf Gotta admit that whilst I'm not sure about #1, #2 sounds good.
 
but I guess you just have to figure out "what do I really want to know", and then ask those questions. Do you want to know if they write unit tests? If they write them before writing the code under test? Or how they feel about singletons, or do they use templates, or which compiler version do they use
 
compiler version is a big one
 
9:29 AM
come up with some questions and then ask those. :)
 
@jalf: I actually ended up joining the company, and you are right about them using SVN or having some freedom.
 
don't want to be stuck with the next VC6
or this VC6
 
Xeo
Oh yeah, reminds me, which kind of questions do you guys ask as interviewees?
 
But still the code base is becoming old, and it seems no one wants to "allow" some radical changes.
 
@Xeo I'm terrible at coming up with any
 
9:30 AM
flexible workin hours
what compiler versions are used
 
I'm not sure there is a reliable way of detecting that on an interview.
 
how much time is spent in meetings
do I get dual or triple screen, a nice chair, and other such comforts
 
Xeo
@ereOn asking
 
@Xeo: What ?
 
Xeo
@DeadMG aka "work environment", whether I get a room with 10 other guys or with maybe 2
@ereOn Or was that referring to your last message?
 
9:32 AM
@Xeo: I really meant "detect", because if you ask the interviewer about how "crappy" their code is, I don't think anyone will answer "our codebase sucks hard"
But sometimes, you may have some clues.
 
Xeo
Well, you can always try to talk a bit to other employees
 
@Xeo: I'm not sure it is appreciated.
 
I wish I'd asked about the compiler version actually.
 
Perhaps it depends also on the country
 
ah, that is so cute... GCC is able to detect some UB, insert code that is guaranteed to abort at runtime, and decides to report it as a warning, rather than an error
 
9:33 AM
Good thing is, I can really say we need 4.7
 
Most companies in France don't even ask technical questions.
 
"Oh, by the way, I inserted an invalid isntruction to ensure that your code is going to crash, but no worries, go ahead anyway"
 
@jalf diagnostic not required by the standard; this would make code unportable
 
You are just hired or rejected on your school grades.
 
@jalf mark warnings as errors. There's option for that. And disable warnings you are aware of
 
9:34 AM
@sehe Less portable than injecting illegal instructions to ensure it crashes?
 
@jalf I believe that the purpose of such things is because they can't prove that code is reachable.
and you'd be pretty fucked off if some code you knew was unreachable contained UB, but GCC threw an error anyway.
 
@jalf Oh - it does that? I didn't fully get what you meant there. Erm. That is =- slightly odd
 
@DeadMG well, it's UB, they're free to throw errors
@sehe Yeah, an ud2a instruction, which, apparently, is a "guaranteed to be illegal" opcode
 
@jalf Not really, come to think about it: if it is dead code, you want to be able to compile your wellformed C++11 program in gcc and run it, like you do elsewhere. Just be glad it detects it?
 
@jalf Only if they can prove UB.
 
9:36 AM
@sehe if it's dead code, I still want to know if it contains UB
@DeadMG It can
 
by that, what I mean is
 
@jalf It told you, didn't it?
 
there's nothing illegal about if (false) *(int*)nullptr = 0;
and if GCC can't prove the condition, then they can't prove UB.
obviously that's a trivial example
 
@DeadMG but there is something illegal about passing a non-POD object to a varargs function. And if you do that, GCC reports a warning, and generates an illegal instruction. It is UB, and GCC knows it
 
@jalf Yeah. That's le bad.
 
9:38 AM
The funny part that tripped me up is that it actually generates the illegal instruction elsewhere, for fun and giggles. I got the crash some 30 lines before the UB
that was fun to debug
 
lol wot the fuck
now that I couldn't possibly begin to understand or justify
 
that might just be the optimizer being creative, of course
 
@jalf disable optimizations?
 
@jalf Hey, it saved those 30 lines of code from having to execute before crashing :P
 
they should get the Eco-Green logo :)
 
9:41 AM
anyways
 
@BartekBanachewicz Sadly, in this particular component, we get a shit-ton of warnings, it uses a crazy build system and the code is a mess. We do run with -Werror for everything else
 
it's time for me to hit le sack
 
@DeadMG hit it, big boy
 
@sehe that sounds so sexually orientated
 
oh, you
 
9:46 AM
Oh god... why is there always a guy in every company that feels the need to implement his own flawed smart pointer ?
 
@ereOn don't you know std::unique_ptr is wrong?
 
@thecoshman: We have to support old C++ compilers that don't support move semantics so here its more like a std::shared_ptr<>
 
If someone hasn't already come out with the theorem, I propose the theorem that every program is wrong and that it is simply a matter of time in order to discover how it is wrong.
 
@Neil: Is being wrong subject to gradation ?
 
9:50 AM
@ereOn Yes, but like absolute zero, nobody can achieve a perfect program.
 
Yes. "0 errors, 0 warnings" should be phrased:
"The compiler was unable to detect any of your errors"
 
@sehe Precisely
 
@Neil sounds like some sort of religious view that you are born evil
 
Even programs/libraries you think are perfect now will be proven wrong 200 years in the future by alien technology
@thecoshman I call it Murphy's Sect
 
@thecoshman strangely I recognize the association
 
9:53 AM
@Neil any relation to Murhpy's Law (or as I knew it Sod's Law)?
 
@Neil define "wrong". I think CS has long proven that most programs can't possibly be proven. Not to be right, nor to be wrong. Then there is the dependence on OS and hardware. Will your program still be right on Mars?
 
And probably, there is a strong correlation between the amount of energy spent making it as close to perfect as possible and how close it already is
 
Oh good ! this new smarter pointer can be assigned to boolean values. Well, only to false because assigning it to true will cause UB. But still, that's a nice feature.
 
@Neil 80:20
 
@thecoshman That was what I was referring to, yes
 
9:54 AM
you can fix 80% of bugs in 20% of the time
 
@sehe We don't have to prove the correctness of a program to know it's wrong. "Wrongness" is determined by deviation from the program's initial intent when it was requested by the client to be made
 
@Neil How do you know it's wrong, unless you prove it to be?
 
@sehe Because if the client says it should do X a different way, it's wrong
 
@Neil Clients never know what they want/need/have
 
If the client uses it and it doesn't do its intended action in the slightest way, it's wrong
 
9:57 AM
@Neil WHOA - hold on: so whenever the client changes his mind your program fails? Aha. Programs shouldn't be written for clients. Problem solved
 
@thecoshman Yes, but that's the absolute zero of wrongness.. if you achieve what the client wants in every exact way, it is not wrong
@sehe No, I didn't say it fails, I said it's wrong
 
@Neil Your assumptions are provably wrong unconstructive
 
@Neil doing exactly what the client wants is always wrong
 
@sehe Well like all of Murphy's law, it doesn't help you whatsoever
 
@Neil Well. Kick me. I said "Define 'wrong'". Your definition of wrong has no objective value, IMO
5 mins ago, by sehe
@Neil define "wrong". I think CS has long proven that most programs can't possibly be proven. Not to be right, nor to be wrong. Then there is the dependence on OS and hardware. Will your program still be right on Mars?
 
9:58 AM
I remind you of Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.
 
@Neil Erm. I never referenced Murphy. And I don't like his law. It's a nice joke
 
@sehe And you're taking this too literally, it's also a joke
 
Ell
Hofstadter? Hmm big bang theory
 
In that case, have fun :) Fetching the kids from school
@Ell ? Douglas hofstadter?
 
Ell
leonard Hofstadter is a character on the show "The big bang theory"
 
user1182183
10:00 AM
definition of wrong/right? right - everything goes just like you planned, wrong - you messed up. simple.
 
@Ell Oh. meh. Tv shows
 
You're writing C code in C++. Stop it. — rubenvb 15 secs ago
 
user1182183
@rubenvb all C++ equilivants to C code are just much more, well, complex to read, C: HelloWorld() C++: Template<><<<><<*>*&<*>&<*>&HelloWorld(*<template blabla>)), at least this is how I see the world..
 
user1182183
scanf in C++, seen somewhere, very complex code for me
 
user1182183
scanf in C, easy to use
 
user1182183
10:05 AM
Did I kill everyone in this room? c'mon i know you all are online
 
@GamErix wtf man? Are you serious?
 
user1182183
after the c/c++ comparision message i expected, well, much commentary :p
 
Xeo
@sehe You know you can onebox xkcd links directly and we also get the alt text that way? :)
@GamErix I think you're reading the wrong stuff or are considering the wrong stuff to be "equivalent"
 
user1182183
@Xeo hmm probbly,
 
Xeo
Back to network programming, is @DeadMG's suggestion to "cry" the only one when it comes to books? :s
 
user1182183
10:10 AM
Well why people keep using c code in C++, the answer is right here: stackoverflow.com/questions/6104821/c-equivalent-of-sscanf
 
user1182183
so don't blame people for using C code in C++ lol
 
@GamErix I don't even want to know in how many mysterious and undescriptive ways that function call can fail.
 
@rubenvb: Amen to that.
 
Not to mention the buffer overflows:
3
A: How to prevent scanf causing a buffer overflow in C?

DigitalRossDirectly using scanf(3) and its variants poses a number of problems. Typically, users and non-interactive use cases are defined in terms of lines of input. It's rare to see a case where, if enough objects are not found, more lines will solve the problem, yet that's the default mode for scanf. (If...

 
@GamErix Well, Boost.Spirit.Qi.
What baffles me more is that neither .NET nor Java have a practical scanf equivalent either. I mean, they have ToString with configurable formatters, why not the same for scanning?
(or Python/Ruby/JavaScript/Go for that matter)
 
user1182183
10:15 AM
IF i'm going to be a programmer anywhere in my life then yes i will spent days,months,years learning, as for now it's just something I can't invest many time into :P just a side hobby
 
@KonradRudolph: Have you ever managed to write any working production code using Boost.Spirit.QI that doesn't cause forever compilation times or compiler crashes ?
 
@KonradRudolph Java has deserializers, which in some respects is better
 
@ereOn For simple scanning? Yes, it’s trivial.
@Neil Which are binary deserialisers (in general, though not necessarily)
 
@KonradRudolph: I don't know whether my scanning was trivial or not, but for doing IPv4/IPv6 + port scanning, I had to split my parsers and subparsers around several files or GCC would crash.
 
Xeo
@ereOn I can vouch that using Boost.PropertyTree hurts my compilation time with their spirit parser for JSON :(
 
user1182183
10:17 AM
kinda wondering how pro's 'sscanf' their code using C++
 
@KonradRudolph There are xml deserializers that write the state of an instance into a readable xml which can be read with one method call and have the instance restored in the program
 
@ereOn Weird and unusual. Sounds like a biiig compiler bug
@Neil Well same thing, really. The whole point of scanf is that you can easily specify the scanning format. Java’s closest equivalent is indeed the Scanner class. .NET has nothing similar.
 
@KonradRudolph: It surely was. But still, the compilation time was like 3 minutes for this single parser, on a very decent computer.
 
Deserialising is a different beast
@ereOn Well, that should be unnecessary. Simple parsers should take seconds to compile, at most.
 
Xeo
boost::format was also only for printing, right?
 
10:19 AM
@KonradRudolph There's regex. Granted that's not the same, but it's also more flexible
 
Xeo
@Neil And a shitton more complex
 
@Neil I don’t care about the technology behind it, I care that it works, and is usable
 
@Xeo Worth learning though
 
have you ever tried writing a simple custom deserialiser? Forget it.
 
@KonradRudolph: I agree. I don't know what caused that. A parser for valid IPv4 addresses isn't that long. I guess it has to do with the complex template code involved in Boost.Spirit
 
user1182183
10:21 AM
I like custom implementations of functions: forum.sa-mp.com/showthread.php?t=120356
 
Java is good at reading input that it's written. There's plenty of support for serialization and deserialization of objects
 
user1182183
Sscanf in a .dll & .so, usable for everything
 
But if you want to read in custom input, you have to write a parser yourself
 
IPv4 addresses can get complicated, too.
 
user1182183
@CatPlusPlus haha ipv4 adresses complicated? xD
 
user1182183
10:21 AM
Give one example
 
@GamErix I think he means that it's difficult to validate if it is a valid IP
 
@ereOn Hmm. You don’t even need templates for that if you just want to replace scanf. Just write something a la parse(qi::int_ % '.', the_string) (corrected, obviously … this is just a q&d code)
 
It's more complicated than making sure there are 4 numbers and that they range from 0 to 255
 
@Neil Sure, but that isn’t the task of the scanner
 
@GamErix 127
 
user1182183
10:23 AM
@Neil ping, if ping fails try to look it up and see if owner information is available, if both fail 99% chance it just isn't valid
 
@KonradRudolph True, I never said it was
 
user1182183
@CatPlusPlus how could that be a valid ipv4 address?
 
It is valid.
 
Xeo
localhost!
 
@GamErix It’s the same as 0.0.0.127
 
user1182183
10:24 AM
@Xeo localhost is just an DNS record
 
@GamErix So you use ping everytime you have to validate an IP? That's like sending an e-mail to check if it's syntactically valid
 
@GamErix 99% is not enough.
 
Not a good strategy in-program
 
You need 100% chance to be sure.
 
user1182183
@Neil well if you just want to validate the string, you can check for reserved ranges, then just check if the ip itself is valid
 
10:25 AM
@Neil Actually, there are sources recommending exactly this
 
user1182183
and I don't think any ip you can connect to through the internet starts with 0.
 
it’s not a bad technique if you want to be completely certain
 
Servers may not respond to ping.
 
2130706433 is a valid IP, too.
 
@GamErix But everytime you do that, you ping an IP address. What if you had to import a table of IP addresses and wanted to validate them?
 
user1182183
10:26 AM
@CatPlusPlus if you mean by converting it to a 4 byte number, yes
 
@daknøk Well then it isn’t currently valid for all intents and purposes, right?
(Of course if you want to check potential past or future validity, this technique no longer works)
 
You'd have to wait for the response as well, since just sending off ping packets to an IP isn't guaranteed success
 
user1182183
@Neil in that case it would be a good idea to hard code valid ip ranges and invalid ip ranges, unknown ranges.. well lookup and ping
 
You'd have to set a low timeout, but even then.. like going to the disk and dancing a jig in your program
 
user1182183
@Neil what about threads? In many port scanner programs you scan thousands of ports at a time
 
10:28 AM
@KonradRudolph If my machine is turned on and publicly available to the Internet, and you ping it, my machine can refuse to respond to the pings.
It can refuse to accept incoming connections.
 
@GamErix Not going to say that's a completely folly idea, but a program can't perform such checks. It is enough to know that it could be a valid IP point to a valid machine
 
user1182183
@daknøk or you are behind a router and you do not control the pings
 
@daknøk I know, that doesn’t change my point
If (big if) the purpose of checking an IP’s validity is to connect to it, then the best validity check is to try to connect to it, rather than performing a syntactic check.
 
user1182183
@Neil everything has it's purpose, we are tlking about globally getting valid ip's, but let's take a situation.. for example you're a website and need a valid ip that you need to save for the future use, I think I would actually want to check if it's at least alive or has a owner
 
user1182183
if there is ISP information available it's probably a valid IP
 
10:30 AM
@GamErix That's differnet. You're checking to see if it is alive, not whether or not the IP is valid
In that circumstance, I would agree
Though, aside from that, not even a good idea to save an IP address seeing how meaningless an IP address can be
 
user1182183
@Neil personally for speed reasons I would convert the IP to an integer and compare it to valid IP ranges and reserverd IP ranges, as for the 'unknown' ranges you would have to come up with some extra checks
 
@GamErix A long checklist of if statements is easily faster than sending off IP packets and waiting for the response
 
user1182183
@Neil now you're confusing me :P you want to check for a valid IP addrewss (submited user data, string), check if the data itself is a valid IP or if it's an actual device?
 
user1182183
mhm anyway I g2g : x i'll sure come back to reads the responses xd
 
@GamErix For me, a valid IP address is not one which responds to a ping. It is an IP address which isn't in the range of reserved IP addresses or IP addresses which could not be that of another machine.
Just like a valid e-mail address is not one which pertains to an e-mail account, just that the name is one that could belong to an e-mail account.
 
sbi
10:49 AM
in PHP, 36 secs ago, by sbi
So which of you "enlightened individuals" thought it would be a good idea to ask all 10k+ users across the whole chat whether this image is offensive or not?
2
in PHP, 14 secs ago, by daknøk
Flagging should be disabled for the entire PHP room.
 
I should totally sneak into the PHP room and flag a few arbitrary messages, just to make the room look bad :)
2
 
@thecoshman tl;dr?
 
@KonradRudolph "kept five people awake for fifteen days using an experimental gas based stimulant"
 
awesome. So what happened? Zombie apocalypse?
ah well, lunch. Maybe I’ll find time to read it afterwards
 
10:57 AM
@KonradRudolph Russian lock away some POW in a sealed room with a stimulant to keep the awake. after 15 days, they have fallen silent, some mute after screaming their vocal cords apart. Windows are covered with shit and paper. The four remaining have effectively flayed them selves alive, displaying their organs around and eating them selves for the last few days
 
@KonradRudolph more or less
 
@KonradRudolph you should
 
@thecoshman That's deeply disturbing
This really happened?
 
@Neil I doubt it
but it's a great read :D
 
Ah I see, creepypasta wiki
That explains why it was written like a horror book or something
 
sbi
11:08 AM
@jalf You don't need to enter the room in order to do that. You can do that from the transcript. (But don't tell anybody.)
 
@Neil If you want, you can read about Joseph Mengele.
Still disturbing, and real.
 
Ell
Joseph mengele?
 
Angel of death!
 
@Xeo I do. But they tend to get too large for my taste
@GamErix huh - same function. what's C++ scanf?
 
@Ell an idiot.
(; March 16, 1911February 7, 1979) was a German SS officer and a physician in the Nazi concentration camp Auschwitz. He earned doctorates in anthropology from Munich University and in medicine from Frankfurt University. He initially gained notoriety for being one of the SS physicians who supervised the selection of arriving transports of prisoners, determining who was to be killed and who was to become a forced laborer, but is far more infamous for performing human experiments on camp inmates, including children, for which Mengele was called the "Angel of Death". Mengele wrote, "I, pe...
 
11:17 AM
@GamErix sscanf is not a particularly useful tool for parsing anything but simple whitespace separated tokens. And it's not particularly simple (seriously, look at the format strings and tell me they're simple) at that. And not particularly safe either.
 
> Mengele's experiments also included attempts to change eye colour by injecting chemicals into children's eyes, various amputations of limbs, and other surgeries.
 
Asking "how do people sscanf in their code?" is the wrong question.
Because people don't think "I need to sscanf stuff". They think "I need to parse this".
sscanf is a tool, not the problem. Well, it is a problem, but for different reasons.
 
If you think in terms of C library functions, you should go see your doctor
 
Nah, you should see Doctor Mengele in that case.
 
Not funny.
 
11:20 AM
Okay.
 
Oh, people tend to be so effing touchy about Auschwitz. That's history, cool, but the Polish-German hate isn't something we really want in the Internet era.
 
Who said anything about that?
 
Ell
I never know where to draw the line with jokes
 
All I'm saying is that I don't find jokes about Mengele funny.
I can't bring myself to laugh about it.
 
11:30 AM
Let's just change the topic.
 
"Subject" has multiple meanings.
 
Ell
most jokes will offend someone in some way or another
Its a matter of how many people
whether a small group, a race, a whole generation etc.
 
I've never read such an awful article
That's disgusting
Is it even true ?
 
Ell
11:32 AM
The japanese performed vivisections also
 
Unless you want to think the survivors made all that up.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes: That's really disturbing.
 
Ell
Anyone played Nazi zombies lately?
 
How can a "researcher" be part of such a thing.
 
Ell
Although we do have medical research to thank the Nazis for, that we wouldn't have got if not for human experimentation
I believe some things about hypothermia
Or something
 
11:37 AM
@Ell you?
 
@Ell that is highly debatable, actually
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Q: Have Josef Mengele’s unethical experiments contributed to modern medicine?

Konrad RudolphJosef Mengele, a.k.a. the “Angel of Death”, was an infamous physician and SS officer in the Auschwitz concentration camp, where he performed inhumane experiments on inmates. To give a taste, He supervised an operation by which two Romani children were sewn together to create conjoined twins ...

@ereOn Well, being a researcher doesn’t necessarily make you a paragon of ethics. Otherwise we wouldn’t need extensive guidelines and regulations
 
@KonradRudolph: Yeah... sadly. It still amaze me : I don't see how I could wake up in the morning and tell myself "let's see how those guys that haven't slept for weeks are doing now !"
 
11:57 AM
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