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10:00 PM
@Drise good luck
 
Thank fuck for Ray Ban
 
who?
 
Ray-Ban is an American brand of sunglasses founded in 1937 by Bausch & Lomb. They were introduced for the United States Army Air Corps. In 1999, Bausch & Lomb sold the brand to the Italian Luxottica Group for a reported $640 million. History Ray-Bans were first created in 1936. Some years earlier, Lieutenant John A. Macready (an American test pilot) returned from a balloon flight, complained that the sun had permanently damaged his eyes, and contacted Bausch & Lomb asking them to create sunglasses that would provide protection and also look sophisticated. On May 7, 1937, Bausch & Lomb ...
sunglasses, biatch
 
oh
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb mother of downvotes
fair enough, I'll fix my answer.
 
10:08 PM
DisableIf<std::is_member_pointer<decltype(&U::is_baz)>> should do the trick.
 
No, it doesn't.
Dammit.
 
mm wy is tat
 
I'm confused.
 
10:10 PM
i guess it will fail for enumerators
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb Can you take their address?
 
Operation Confuse Robot with Template Wankery is a huge success...
 
but they are static members
 
@TonyTheLion I decided to take some leeway and write it a way that I have before warned Luc that it was confusing. And what happened? Yeah.
 
10:13 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Enumerators are rvalues.
 
they are one of those things that have names and are rvalues when only their name is mentioned
@R.MartinhoFernandes your technique fails for overloaded static member functions :)
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb I thought this was for a bool member.
 
dunno
yes i think you are right
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh I see
 
@Drise You'll break the grand!
 
10:20 PM
lol
 
Herb didn't answer to my answer to his new T[0] question on google groups :(
 
@Drise Take care. Stay cool
 
The internet turned me into a heartless monster
 
@TonyTheLion Like a bausch!
 
10:26 PM
Have you seen tos-dr.info?
 
@CatPlusPlus yes
saw it on Reddit yesterday
 
It's neat.
 
it's neat indeed, no one ever reads those Terms of Service thingies
 
I usually read the important ones (bank, PayPal) and glance over everything else.
 
I've never read any
 
10:30 PM
And while we're dropping news, something that maybe exciting.
 
I read most of them.
 
There's a new Open-Solaris derived (actually, IllumOS-based, these days) project: DilOS. Sports a IllumOS kernel and debian package management
@R.MartinhoFernandes Only the funny ones, no?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes you have time for that?
no one on Mumble :(
 
@TonyTheLion I have time for everything. Except sleep.
 
oh that
 
10:31 PM
hey guys...does 0.65 nanoseconds sound too good for calculating the determinant of a 4x4 matrix? I mean, that's like...3 clock cycles
 
donno
never tried to calculate the determinant of a 4x4 matrix
 
or 3x3 for that matter, takes the same time :p
apparently.
 
why do you care?
 
@melak47 Hmm, that's a bunch of multiplications. I don't know how many cycles that would mean.
@TonyTheLion Maybe because he suspects his measurements are wrong?
 
@TonyTheLion fixing (temporarily)
 
10:33 PM
@TonyTheLion because I wrote a very naive algorithm for it, and nothing I do to improve it makes it faster. i.e. skipping 1/4 to 3/4 the multiplications when possible doesn't do anything at all
 
@melak47 That sounds fast. Add a test suite (accuracy tests)
 
@melak47 increase the matrix size significantly and check again, the compiler might be throwing the calculation away if you don't do anything with the result of it.
 
@melak47 Without a context it means nothing.
 
@mfontanini yeah it did that. 0.0 ns for 10 billion iterations got me suspicious :P
 
If the rest of the program takes 0.1 nanoseconds, it's slow as fuck.
 
10:34 PM
lol
 
@CatPlusPlus the std::cout takes ages compared to that :p
 
add the result to some dummy variable and do something with it.
 
@mfontanini that's how I got these numbers :)
 
I/O always takes ages.
 
10:35 PM
@melak47 all that matters is that it's fast enough for your program, and that it's accurate.
 
@MooingDuck just seems odd that my stupid implementation would be faster than that of a math library that claims it's optimized for small matrices among other things
 
arh, stupid language not letting me extend my class after definition
 
What.
 
@melak47 the library might be more generic, have more features, or held back by the linker, or a dll boundary.
@melak47 you still haven't said that you checked the accuracy at any point :P
 
@CatPlusPlus Recovering Ruby addict.
 
10:39 PM
@MooingDuck the accuracy of what?
my timing? or the calculation?
 
@melak47 your matrix multiplication
 
Ruby's open classes are one of the worst ideas in history of OO.
 
@MooingDuck I'm just calculating the determinant, not doinng matrix multiplication
 
@melak47 Make sure that your code is actually doing the same thing as the library code. And of course that it isn't being optimized out.
 
We're doing maintenance and extending on a RoR project in work. Recently we've been laughing at the fact that nil has 200-something methods, and any string 300-something.
This is maintenance nightmare.
 
10:41 PM
@CatPlusPlus WTF. Why would anyone put stuff on nil?
 
@Mjiig Propose extension methods to the C++ standard committee and wait five years. Or learn to love non-friend, non-member functions.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hell knows. Coworker encountered this while searching for idiomatic "check whether string is empty or maybe nil".
Turns out RoR adds empty? on both nil and strings.
Or maybe that was blank?.
 
@FredOverflow by "non-friend, non-member functions." do you just mean a normal function that takes an instance of my class as a parameter?
 
Yes.
There is no good reason for open classes.
 
10:43 PM
Ruby sucks on my rails
 
@CatPlusPlus Madness isn't a good reason?
 
Well, I can see how some people prefer x.a().b().c() over c(b(a(x))).
 
By that logic there's good reason to be writing PHP code while hanging upside down off the rope over a pool of lava.
 
@CatPlusPlus Probably not, but it's annoying me that my "real" code has to acknowledge the existence of my unit testing code
 
@Mjiig What.
Your design sucks. Go back to the drawing board.
 
10:45 PM
so that my unit testing code can access private members
 
Your unit testing code shouldn't access private members.
 
@Mjiig unit testing should not need to access private members
 
Your unit testing code is artificial client code.
Client code never access private members.
 
If the thing is not visible in client code, what are you really testing?
 
And no, you shouldn't write getters for internal state.
 
10:46 PM
Just protect your privates and test them from within the same package. Oh wait, this isn't Java.
 
the whole point of unit testing is that you test at the level of individual functions, not at the interface level
 
@Mjiig I don't think that's right
 
No, it's not
 
In computer programming, unit testing is a method by which individual units of source code, sets of one or more computer program modules together with associated control data, usage procedures, and operating procedures, are tested to determine if they are fit for use. Intuitively, one can view a unit as the smallest testable part of an application. In procedural programming a unit could be an entire module but is more commonly an individual function or procedure. In object-oriented programming a unit is often an entire interface, such as a class, but could be an individual method. Unit t...
 
You don't care about invisible differences on any kind of testing.
 
10:48 PM
The point of unit testing is testing API contracts.
And external invariants.
Internal invariants should be asserted on.
 
If it's an invisible difference you're not testing anything, unit or not.
 
Hey guys as a beginner to C++ (On Ubuntu) do you reckon I should learn C++ from gedit and terminal and throw away the option of an ide?
 
If you have to change unit tests after changing internals, you're missing the point, introducing bugs and generally doing it wrong, and you shouldn't even bother.
 
I should learn how add/remove programs works sometime, and how I get my programs to be properly uninstallable
@JosephPotts use an IDE, debugging from a terminal is not worth learning
 
@JosephPotts vim, obviously
 
10:50 PM
@MooingDuck Entry in HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall
 
Vim?
 
Man. Fuck Friesland.
 
@JosephPotts linux notepad
 
Vim ain't notepad.
And yes, vim.
 
10:50 PM
Is it any different from gedit
 
@MooingDuck Make them xcopy deployable!
 
Yes. It even has a different name.
 
Besides that, heh.
 
@CatPlusPlus Exactly! It seems most people don't get the distinction between unit testing and assertions.
 
@RadekSlupik Glad to see your 3g is even crappier than mine
 
10:51 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes they are :( Those that have registry things just add them to the registry if they aren't there. which is wrong.
 
@sehe Wi-Fi
I have an iPod, not an iPhone.
 
How many years of experience in C++ have you guys had?
 
One and a half.
 
Maybe less.
I'm bad with dates.
 
10:53 PM
Heh, nice.
 
@CatPlusPlus You should date more often.
 
Depends on what you define as "C++".
 
I don't know how clearer I can get =P
 
@Mysticial Not being scared of the typename keyword? :)
 
@JosephPotts Can't remember exactly. When did Turbo C++ 1.0 come out?
 
10:54 PM
@FredOverflow Oh god, don't even go there... I don't think I've ever used it properly.
 
@Joseph 0.5 years
 
I don't know.
 
@JerryCoffin Poor thing.
 
@FredOverflow What, never is not often enough? What a world.
 
Radek
How far have you gotten?
 
10:54 PM
My experience with C++ is about 0.5 years but already 5000 tears.
 
@JosephPotts I got to the end boss, but haven't won yet
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes First you lose your hair. Then your memory. Then...ummm....
 
I feel I'm becoming more proficient in Haskell than C++.
And it's more fun.
So good riddance, really.
 
Turbo C++ was released in 1990
O wow, long time Jerry =P
 
I was released in 1994.
 
10:56 PM
=P
 
@CatPlusPlus Fuck yeah. Shall we go to ((.).(.)) and make out? ;)
 
@RadekSlupik I was released (from the USAF) in 1988.
 
you guys don't seem to be happy C++ Programmers D:
 
You know what, this should be called owl operator. Or "weird face with glasses" operator.
 
10:56 PM
@JerryCoffin You were in the air force?
 
@CatPlusPlus Good luck with that.
 
@JosephPotts There's no such thing.
 
@Mysticial Yeah -- 1984 to 1988.
 
Ah well =P
 
Woah...
 
10:57 PM
So you traded shooting things in a plane for shooting yourself in foot in C++.
 
So you guys think, as a beginner, I should start learning straight from an IDE?
 
I think you should learn Haskell.
 
Dunno, I still compile most of my crap straight from the console :)
 
@CatPlusPlus Nah -- I never shot things in a plane. I worked on planes, didn't fly them.
 
Or you could use ideone if that counts as an IDE :)
 
10:58 PM
The difference between physical pain and emotional pain is that of getting shot by a plane vs. getting shot by C++.
 
"shot by a plane"? WTH is that supposed to mean?
 
Ahaha.
 
When you see a plane and it shoots you.
 
You die.
 
But at least you don't have to write C++.
 
11:00 PM
@Mysticial The only planes I worked on that had guns were B52's. If you got shot by them (6 barrel, 1200 rounds per minute, 20mm Gatling cannon) you'd probably never feel a thing.
 
@JerryCoffin Wow... what about missiles?
 
Woah! so 20 rounds per second.
Damn.
 
I'd think you would feel even less when hit by a missile.
 
I can't even handle a kiddie roller coaster - yet people can fly a fighter jet and pull 10Gs...
 
@Mysticial Air launched cruise missiles. If you're near ground zero, you'd definitely never know it.
 
11:02 PM
Roller coasters are way different
 
@Mysticial Does the ipod 4G handle 4G? ;)
 
Since roller coasters are open, and jets are sealed
So you don't feel the air.
 
Also, puke gets trapped in a plane, whereas it flies free on a roller coaster.
 
lol :P
 
@Mysticial Nah -- the limit is about 8 Gs (sustained, anyway). After that you pass out pretty quickly. On a roller coaster, the main thing in negative G's. In a plane, you usually handle that by inverting the plane, so you don't feel it as negative.
 
11:03 PM
You probably shouldn't puke into air mask.
 
@JosephPotts I can get queezy even from a fast elevator or severe airplane turbulence...
 
@CatPlusPlus How many rock stars have died like that? :)
 
Well you have proper equipment
 
@CatPlusPlus That would definitely get your Aircrew life support people a bit unhappy. If you fly, you don't want that.
 
Guys. On-topic?!
 
11:04 PM
So I doubt you'd feel much =)
Yes! C++!
 
@Mysticial Me too, but that feels awesome.
 
@sehe What? Here? You're joking, right?
 
@JerryCoffin Duh
 
@JerryCoffin Interesting...
 
11:07 PM
Ugh, my Internets get messed up in bad weather.
 
@Mysticial Most current fighters (F15, F16, etc.) have "smart" G-limiters that will let you pull close to 9 G's momentarily, but will automatically loosen the turn a bit until you're just below 8 Gs (or so) to keep you from passing out. That's still a wickedly tight turn. Thunderbirds, Blue Angels, etc., don't really show it very well though.
 
@JerryCoffin That's something I didn't know. :)
 
I want porn:// protocol
 
Nya
lol
 
That's http://
 
11:12 PM
http sucks!
 
@Mysticial Most impressive demo I've seen was a single pilot in an F-15. Flies right to left, just below mach 1, so he's off to the left, doing a 180 degree turn as you hear the sound approaching from the right. His turn is about the width of the runway, and he comes back across in front of you left to right as you're hearing the sound go across in the opposite direction.
 
@JerryCoffin woah...
 
@sehe ...except the http vacuum cleaner.
 
Accept the Vacuum Cleaner(TM)!
 
11:15 PM
@JerryCoffin wait... just below mach 1?
 
Get yo ass over to mumble and enjoy the soundtrack too /cc @RadekSlupik
 
then how can the plane have time to turn around before the sound from the first pass arrives?
 
@Mysticial Yup -- going above mach 1 tends to cause unfortunate little problems (windows breaking, audience ear-drums being destroyed, etc.)
 
@JerryCoffin I was thinking that there might be missing something. If the plane flies past you at sub-mach, you'll hear the plane before it passes you. So the plane can't possibly arrive in the opposite direction when you hear it initially.
 
11:22 PM
@Mysticial Not so. Say you're 1000 feet from where he's flying. That means it takes ~5 seconds for the sound to travel from him to you. That gives him 5 seconds to fly past, turn around, and fly back before you hear him.
 
@Mysticial only if it's coming literally straight at you
 
Clearly, my diagram is wrong then...
So the plane never flies past the observer?
 
@Mysticial the left to right, then right to left, 1000+ feet ahead of you. He's flying perpendicular to your view.
 
@MooingDuck ah......................
 
@Mysticial It's basically a triangle. You're watching from hundreds of feet back as he flies back and forth in front of you.
 
11:24 PM
I had it parallel.
 
fuck
how is it 00:24 already?
last I checked it was like, 20:00
 
easy
just time flies
 
@DeadMG 1:25
 
flap flap flap, bitch
 
11:25 PM
@sehe Different timezone.
 
@sehe I don't think we do that here
 
@DeadMG What's that saying about "time flies when you're having fun?" Or is it "flies time when you're having fun"? I can never keep those things straight.
 
@DeadMG Solution: check time more often.
 
huh
 
See, you don't even have to shoot anyone.
 
11:26 PM
time should fly when I tell it to and otherwise remain exactly where I left it.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Most people set an alarm when they should get up. Programmers need one for when to go to bed.
8
 
anyways, it will be necessary for me to knock off
 
I remember when I was in middle school I got distracted easy, so my parents gave me a little alarm thing that beeps every 15 minutes to catch my attention and remind me of whatever it was I was supposed to be doing.
 
@JerryCoffin Alarms are one-use for me.
@DeadMG That sounds like fapping.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You just need to count your own clock cycles.
@DeadMG Well, good morning. Sleep well and all that.
Well, I need to leave for a while too, but to deal with supper, not sleeping (yet). Later all.
 
11:29 PM
@Cat oh gawd, the LYAH chapter on monads is booooring. Too much exposition, I think.
@JerryCoffin Have fun.
That thing just explains everything.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Thanks. I'll try.
@R.MartinhoFernandes ..for great good.
 
Yup. It's gonna happen. Night everyone!
 
Yeah, right.
Also, you're violating the quarantine.
 
ok, back here
chocolate time for me
 
I need to find a decent caffeine source.
 
11:41 PM
oh, yea, you don't drink coffee
hmmm
 
Or maybe I should try some of those fancy coffee-like stuffs.
 
Thee has caffeine
 
Capuccinos and all that crap.
 
latte, for a girls drink
I mainly drink Americano without sugar or milk
 
No idea what that means :S
 
11:42 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Cappuccino is nice
@R.MartinhoFernandes Americano is a double expresso shot with water added
like a strong coffee
 
Really, the only kind of coffee I know is... just coffee with water added.
All those fancy names need looking up.
 
lol
you need to get out more
 
then you learn about different types of coffee
 
I don't see why.
 
11:44 PM
and no, you can't template coffee
 
My friends drink the same but usually with sugar.
 
so, no SFINEA on coffee types :P
so you don't ever go have a coffee at some coffee shop then with friends?
 
@TonyTheLion I only know of one coffee shop around here, and it's a bit far (we usually go out on foot).
 
oh wow
 
We usually go to bars.
 
11:47 PM
ah right
 
Or pubs, maybe. I don't know. Around here we call "bar" to pretty much anything.
 
We should serve drink in this Lounge
 
@JerryCoffin When I first read "Programmers need one for when to go to bed" I thought you were referring to a shot of alcohol :)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes in the UK it's mostly pubs
@FredOverflow lol
 
@FredOverflow Now that you decontextified it, my first thought was quite different.
 
11:48 PM
Does Listerine count as alcohol? :)
 
Though alcohol may help.
@FredOverflow What's that?
 
Listerine is a brand of antiseptic mouthwash. The product is marketed under the slogan "Kills germs that cause bad breath". It was named after Joseph Lister who promoted the idea of sterile surgery by sterilizing instruments. Originally marketed by the Lambert Pharmacal Company (which later became Warner-Lambert), it is currently manufactured and distributed by Johnson and Johnson since that company's acquisition of Pfizer's consumer healthcare division in late December 2006. The Listerine brand name is also used on toothpaste, Listerine Whitening rinse, new Listerine Fluoride rinse (Li...
 
Oh, made by the same people as Viagra.
 
Pfizer
too much Viagra spam emails
 
11:50 PM
So you're supporting the guys that send me spam?
 
I don't think you can buy Viagra legally over the Internet, so no.
(Or can you in the United States?)
 
@FredOverflow Do you think that would stop them? dons tinfoil hat
 
Also, who can argue against good breath and hard erections? :)
 
Is there another kind of erection I'm not aware of?
Don't answer that.
 
11:52 PM
I leave for a couple of minutes, and you guys start talking about erections...
2
 
@LuchianGrigore Why are you surprised?
 
Come to think of it, I'm not
 
What interesting things can be said about erections?
Many nice things have been erected....
I should go to bed
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes According to Johnny Knoxville, there is "wet Spaghetti" :)
 
11:54 PM
WTF
 
3 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Don't answer that.
 
@FredOverflow do I dare Google that?
 
No need, already posted the video :) Johnny starts talking about it @ 2:38.
 
@FredOverflow I'm not watching a video
 
11:57 PM
This looks nice repl.it/#:languages
They should add Haskell, though.
 

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