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12:00 AM
for example, one physical problem is that food labelling in the EU is quite deficient. People don't actually know what they are eating.
 
@DeadMG you can, tell them to stop eating crap
 
@TonyTheLion that's the least of that code's problems
 
Ell
@tonythelion I prefer == false
 
Some people have absurdly crappy metabolisms even when they exercise and eat well, and are still relatively overweight
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion That's just common sense.
 
12:00 AM
@TonyTheLion How are they gonna do that when food labelling and marketting convinces people that crap is, in fact, not crap?
 
@MooingDuck yes, sleep is another
 
you can't avoid crap you don't know about.
 
lifestyle plays a huge role in this
 
@TonyTheLion Then do the same with people who smoke, people who drink more than you'd like, and people who participate in sports that have high injury rates (i.e., most of them). People whose parents have inheritable diseases probably need to chip in quite a bit extra too.
 
@sbi you nailed it
 
12:00 AM
@TonyTheLion look what happens when the server fails to start at all, and how they handle exceptions
 
and, of course, that's ignoring all of the fundamental biological causes in our brains and stomachs that cause overeating.
 
@JerryCoffin now you're just generalizing my statement, in order to achieve what exactly?
 
nobody can will their body into producing the correct hormones if it produces faulty ones by default, or change their brain chemistry by willpower.
 
@JerryCoffin and I was making a sarcastic comment
 
Ell
isn't thst the "fat gene"?
 
12:02 AM
@TonyTheLion The problem with taxing or penalizing fat people is that some elements are biologically-engrained and beyond control. Not everyone is a mesomorph who can drop weight just by eating chicken for two weeks
 
@TonyTheLion Amplify the sarcasm.
 
sbi
@Drise You know, it got less and less funny for me, too. The thing is, I tend to react sarcastically to someone jumping out of their suit. You can complain about that, of course, but I don't see how that's worse than the room going quite because everyone turns away embarrassed.
 
not exactly.
you can have a genetic predisposition to obesity
but it has to be activated by a harsh childhood stress
 
@JerryCoffin lol I fail at other people's sarcasm detection
 
Ell
hoe about we stop treating obesity all together and let natural selection take its course :D it might also help starvation
 
12:03 AM
but the result is, nearly universally among those who meet the criteria
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion Generalization is a good tool to show the absurdity of some seemingly innocent POVs.
 
@DeadMG now that i have not heard about? elaboration please?
 
I mean, what are you gonna do, will your genes to mutate?
 
@Ell tried that in America. Didn't work
 
@TonyTheLion He's proving it's absurdity, in that, we as a society know of many other things that cause people to express negative, and indeed specifically, addictive, behaviour that they cannot control.
and you present no evidence that people cannot become addicted to food, or any other of many potential physical and biological causes.
 
12:05 AM
well I quit smoking 4 months ago without any aids or anything
 
Ell
somebody say somethih that will nawake me op
I am about to collspe
 
so simply suggesting that people eat less and exercise more is quite ignorant, as if their willpower has jack to do with shit.
 
@Ell go to bed
 
@TonyTheLion Congratulations...?
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion Also, you are as scrawny as a starved lioness. Well, at least you were as long as you smoked. I haven't seen you since. :)
 
12:05 AM
well, actually
congratulations, because that's an achievement and you should be proud
 
Ell
I am in bed but i want to stay up
 
@sbi you just called me unattractive and thin???
really?
 
@DeadMG Explain the childhood thing?
 
@DeadMG I think some people have enough willpower to do it, but those with the problem are those without the willpower to stop themselves, so your point is valid.
@Ell go to sleep
 
@MooingDuck Well, my point is that lack of willpower has nothing to do with it.
 
Ell
12:06 AM
I personally like girls with a little meat on them. not fat per se but I dislike thin girls
 
does DeadMG have me on ignore or something
 
nobody can will their genes to mutate into a beneficial format, or will their stomach into producin the right hormones
 
@DeadMG I think it's related to the cause, but it's not related to any solution.
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion No, that I didn't want to imply. All I wanted to say is that, as long as you smoked, you were thin. Very thin.
 
@AgainstASicilian most likely yes
 
Ell
12:07 AM
@mooingdick but that's no fun!
 
@DeadMG oh well, if willpower has nothing to do with it, then it seems there's nothing that can be done about anything in your view. I feel sorry for you.
 
@AgainstASicilian many people in the room have you on ignore, I know sbi does.
 
Ell
*duck
 
@TonyTheLion Never said anything about that.
 
12:07 AM
XD oh well
 
you can get stomach surgeries that are surprisingly effective
 
@sbi I was, I still am.
 
@Ell that's even worse than the usual mooningduck!
 
sbi
@MooingDuck Yeah, and they wish the rest did that, too. Those one-sided discussions are meh.
 
also, we can introduce legislation to fix food marketting and package labelling
and reduce the effectiveness of fast food and advertising to children, for example.
 
12:08 AM
someone ask him about the child activation thing
that seems rather important
 
@DeadMG Being fair, willpower does have something to do with it. I've seen a couple of overweight teenagers transform themselves when they though (for example) that they could "get the girl" by doing so. It's still not effective as a general rule though.
 
the willpower of the general obese population at large being irrelevant is quite some distance from "nothing can be done".
 
@AgainstASicilian look it up online
 
Ell
I think we need healthy fast food. when out, the only option for fast food seem to be macdonalds or burger king or KFC etc.
 
@JerryCoffin Yeah. Some people can do it. But then, some people can commit unprovoked murder.
 
12:09 AM
@MooingDuck I did and could not find anything
 
@DeadMG could do that, but if a person whom has an obesity problem has to wait for that to happen, he may wait for a long time. Why not try to find something that the person himself can do, to help alleviate the problem?
 
Which is why I was questioning DeadMG on it
I have never heard of that before
 
Ell
and the only supposedly healthy stuff they sell are salads which are more expensive and apparently higher in salt content
 
@TonyTheLion Because there is no evidence to suggest that such a solution exists.
 
Can't tell if that is pseudoscience or not
 
12:10 AM
@AgainstASicilian didn't try very hard
 
whereas there is boundless evidence to suggest that the problem is caused by numerous elements completely outside of his control.
 
ah i had searched for childhood activation of obesity
 
sbi
Well, since only a few here know this: I have a BMI above 30, and I believe I am therefore considered obese. I frequently joke about my potbelly, though. It's mine, it's my fault I have it, and I think others have the right to joke about it. Now bring them on... :)
 
@JerryCoffin I don't mean to say that losing weight by willpower is equivalent to unprovoked murder, of course. I'm merely saying that, the ability of a tiny fraction to do such things is not really relevant, and it's been demonstrated time and time again that huge majorities of the general population are not capable of such.
 
Ell
I am overweight IIRC but not obese
 
12:11 AM
@DeadMG but by saying that its outside of his control, you're essentially saying that this person can do nothing about his situation and is doomed. I don't know, but that would make me depressed if I had to hear that if I were an obese person. So, evidence or not, I'm sure there's programs out there to help an obese person lose weight.
 
I think controls on advertising are primarily a way for politicians to be able to say "see, we're doing something", while actually doing little or nothing. In the US, there have been controls on advertising tobacco products for decades now, but it seems largely ineffective -- it's mostly changed how the money changes hands, and (unsurprisingly) increased the amount spent on lobbying, so more goes directly to the politicians.
 
@TonyTheLion Whether or not a fact is depressing is orthogonal to whether or not it is true.
I want to go visit alien worlds via FTL travel, but that's not gonna change whether or not it's physically impossible to do such.
 
Ell
what does it mean for something to be orthogonal to something?
 
@DeadMG yes, indeed, however that wasn't the point I was making, sigh
 
@Ell 90 degrees
 
12:13 AM
@Ell whether it is related
 
@Ell Irrelevant, essentially.
specifically
in physics, orthogonal forces have absolutely no impact upon one another
 
Ell
right kk ta
 
@sbi I have lost all of my friends to trivialities.
 
for example, a ball drops to the earth at exactly the same rate, regardless of how fast it is moving horizontally.
this is because vertical and horizontal movement are orthogonal
 
my life is orthogonal to yours :P
 
12:14 AM
so if you drop a bullet and you fire it out of a gun, they will hit the ground due to gravity at exactly the same time (compensating for earth curvature and such).
that's orthogonality
@TonyTheLion Voops. Rephrase?
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin Actually, this is one of the things the Merkin government got right long before the European ones. If you think your government was ineffective in making smoking unattractive, you should have visited Europe in the 90s. Really, when I returned to Germany from a 6 months stay, I first noticed how bad a problem smoking was back then in Germany.
@CaptainGiraffe I fail to understand that.
 
@JerryCoffin It has been quite effective here.
perhaps those controls simply weren't particularly stringent
but particularly
 
@DeadMG I was merely trying to make the point that telling someone nothing can be done about a situation isn't going to help them. If you're trying to find a solution for someone, at least give them something in their control.
 
what you have to realize is that products make money by appearing to be healthy.
there's a drink in the UK called Sunny Delight
came out promoting it's vitamin content and it made a fortune
 
Ell
I'm not allowed ti drink that
 
12:16 AM
@DeadMG Well, my point is that I think most people probably are capable of such things -- but most people lack the motivation, and finding the motivation that will work for any particular person is non-trivial (and if they're depressed enough, for one example, you'll probably have to cure a lot of other things before any such motivation will even exist for them).
 
sbi
@DeadMG They were. He. being exposed to a slow, gradual change, just didn't notice the effects.
 
legendary because it was actually complete garbage
@TonyTheLion I can't do that if I have nothing to give.
 
@DeadMG we have that in America too, I wondered why I haven't seen it in years
 
Ell
well, wasn't allowed to drink it as a young'un
 
@MooingDuck Because there was a huge scandal.
they were basically selling complete crap and re-advertising it as healthy.
boom, instant sales.
 
12:17 AM
meh
 
Ell
tasted good though
 
I feel like I got screwed growing up over stuff like that
my mother used to buy tons of sunny D thinking it was healthy
 
the problem is that the question of whether or not food product XYZ is actually good for you really depends on what your exact nutritional needs are and what the rest of your diet is like.
 
too much HFCS in foods now
 
and it's easy for marketers to sprinkle in a little fruit, or a few vitamins, and pretend that it's healthy when actually it's even worse, for example.
 
12:19 AM
@sbi Oh, don't get me wrong: there's no question it's done some good. If they'd honestly wanted to do something useful, however, smoking would be almost a historical footnote by now. Instead of saying "you must be 18 to buy tobacco", change the law so next 1 Jan (or whatever) the date when you have to have been born stays the same. By now, the youngest smokers would be ~60, and within another 40 years (or so) it would be gone.
 
@AgainstASicilian wikipedia says until 2003 it was 95% sugarwater, with a little juice
 
Ell
about to collapse so nifty all
 
@MooingDuck Yeah, it was pretty much crap
 
@JerryCoffin don't governments make a shitload of money on cigarette/tobacco sales?
 
now it's only 85% sugarwater
 
12:19 AM
@TonyTheLion The point is that sometimes there is not much under control. That is no excuse not to live a healthy lifestyle, but it does not help to fine people who have no control over their genetics
 
@TonyTheLion IIRC, barely pays for the cost of curing all the lung cancer they give to the people who have to work/live with them.
 
so them trying to pull people off cigarettes is hypocritical at best
 
not really
 
@TonyTheLion Yes -- immense amounts. At least in the US, many of the states where it's biggest would almost certainly have extreme economic problems without it too.
 
it's best for everyone if smoking is eliminated
 
sbi
12:21 AM
@JerryCoffin In order to do that, a government must be elected to do so. So people need to want them to do that. If that's the case, however, why don't the people simply do themselves what they want to be done?
The fact that government X doesn't do Y usually correlates with the people who selected them not wanting Y.
 
@DeadMG I think the government thinks otherwise, they make way too much money off it
 
@sbi Unfortunately, that correlation is really not as strong as it could be.
@TonyTheLion Eh. They wouldn't really lose money if it were eliminated.
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin It's different in Europe, though, where public health insurance is more common. I bet that smoking costs Germany much more than the tax on tobacco gains.
 
@DeadMG hmmm I'm not too sure...
 
all that disposable income that goes on smoking right now would still be spent, or put into the banking system or some other worthwhile cause- that money would not disappear.
 
12:23 AM
@sbi It's not always the people in general -- a fairly small minority that's making enough money can exert a lot of influence. Yes, if the people in general really wanted to eliminate smoking, that influence wouldn't mean much -- but without a strong feeling in the opposite direction, it can maintain the status quo pretty easily.
 
by the way
 
it's like weapons, the government could surely eliminate all making of them, but they don't because they bring in profit.
 
call me crazy, but I think we should introduce a parallelism-influenced political structure.
@TonyTheLion Nah, they keep going because of fear.
our army is completely redundant and we could lose every single soldier and we'd all be better off for it, but we won't because the people would be too afraid.
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin The problem, IMO, isn't that people don't want it strongly enough, it's that most people are simply too dumb to make up their own mind. (See Sunny Delight, mentioned above.)
 
@sbi Very likely. I'm pretty sure it costs the US as a whole -- but the cost is spread over the whole country, and the benefit concentrated in a couple of states, so those states work very hard to protect their market.
 
12:25 AM
@sbi Oh, once the scandal broke they made their mind up pretty damn fast.
 
@sbi dumb people, really? We have dumb people, damn I hadn't noticed :P
(Youtube comes to mind)
 
@sbi I think that's more about why they don't want it strongly enough, than the fact that they don't.
 
sbi
@DeadMG No. They had their mind made up by the tabloids. Had those not picked up the story, they woudn't have changed their minds. I mean, it's not exactly hard to look at a bottle's label and see what's in there. FFS, if this was mostly water & corn syrup, with 5% of juice, it must have been fucking hard not to simply taste that it's just iced shit.
 
@sbi The label doesn't give percentages.
food labelling back then was a lot worse than it is now
although I wasn't around and have never tasted it, so I can't speak to that department
 
sbi
12:28 AM
@melak47 Give me one reason not to bin that.
 
but I'm going to wager that people liked the taste because it was sweet, and they didn't really think about it.
 
@sbi it's a spill of sunny D concentrate :)
 
sbi
@DeadMG That might be true. Still, that leaves the other alternative. :)
@melak47 Ah, Ok. You might want to label such a pic the next time. This seemed like some weirdo dropping in just to wordlessly drop a funny pic.
 
@sbi I forgot the chat auto image-y-fies image links, it's obvious when you see the link location :/
 
@sbi The other thing to keep in mind is that in terms of percentages, most vitamins (for example) make up only a minute percentage, even of foods that really are quite healthy. A liter bottle of a drink that really is healthy probably still doesn't have more than a gram or so of vitamins...
 
12:30 AM
nailed it ^
 
sbi
@DeadMG "...they didn't really think about it." Which is exactly my point.
@JerryCoffin I guess they would have to add a lot of water and very little syrup that it wouldn't taste unhealthy in my book.
@JerryCoffin Yeah, you said so. I disagreed. Now you saying that again, I feel obliged to again express my disagreement. I won't take the trouble to back it up this time, again, though. :)
Sep 6 '11 at 22:32, by sbi
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Might contain nuts. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
 
@sbi My point was, the amount of vitamins it contained would always be so small that it could taste about the same, regardless of how good or bad it was (at least in terms of vitamin content -- but being aimed at kids, would have a lot of sugar either way).
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin And my point was, that nothing that has as much sugar as that could be considered healthy, no matter how many vitamins they have.
 
@sbi Fair point -- but I don't think that was what got people upset.
 
12:38 AM
Damn, 518 messages, this room is on fire tonight.
 
sbi
I think it's the same with that "Nimm 2" ("take 2") candy, they sell in Germany. It's just glucose with very little juice, and it's advertised as "nibbling healthy vitamins". They get constantly criticized for cheating on their audience, and I just don't get it. How could you ever think giving drops to your kids could be considered healthy? Yet, there are many who do...
 
stupidity?
 
sbi
Well, it's past 2:30am here, I have little kids who will want me to be awake way too early (for vacation) in the morning, plus there's a few things I'll have to do tomorrow (while having said kids in tow) before I get visitors in the evening. So I should really do this laundry now I keep putting off for hours, and then call it a day.
G'night, folks!
 
12:48 AM
night
 
night
 
1:07 AM
hello everyone :)
 
hi
 
@TonyTheLion I think it's less about stupidity that self delusion -- most probably know better, but convince themselves that the kids like it, and the ads say it's good, so why not...
Anyway, gotta go for a while.
 
1:43 AM
lol lolcode :P
 
no, rly?
 
sigh the Dart lang download is down...
 
 
1 hour later…
3:14 AM
Halp! I've really messed up my Windows 7.1 SDK installation.
First I installed MSVC++ 2010 Express.
Then I installed the Windows 7.1 SDK.
Then I installed MSVC++ 2010 Express SP1.
Then the x64 compiler from the Windows SDK stopped working.
Then I uninstalled the Windows 7.1 SDK... and I can't reinstall it.
It keeps reporting an error that I already have a newer compiler installed.
I found an update here that seems to restore the compilers...
...but I can't find the Windows 7.1 Command Prompt anywhere now.
Can anyone help me? Is there any way I can avoid reinstalling everything from scratch?
 
Do you have any restore points to restore to?
 
I'll check...
Apparently so (one for July 7 - which happens to be the day I installed SP1)... do you think that would work?
 
It will effectively return your registry and other important bits back to the way they where before you installed all the software. After the restore you'll want to reinstall SP1 etc.
 
3:32 AM
Ah, I finally got the compilers installed again.
But I still don't see a Windows 7.1 Command Prompt anywhere.
 
Is this the same thing as cmd.exe?
 
 
2 hours later…
5:07 AM
@RolandTaylor Sort of... but it sets a bunch of environment variables.
 
 
1 hour later…
6:13 AM
@DeadMG Morning nub
 
Morning nubs.
Haven't slept yet, but still.
 
U should =)
 
You guys really like to wake up early. :P
 
Have to, work you know
@JerryCoffin Evening gent
 
Work is good. But it can be done at any hour. Perhaps best work is done when one is not sleepy and sleep deprived. :P
 
6:18 AM
oh lord! My kitten has just done the most god awfully foul smelling shit ever! I can't get near it
 
harhar
puppies > kittens
 
kyrostat.com - soon in a porn shop near you.
 
when I press enter nothing happens
also, y credentials of "deadmg"/"nobodyelsecouldbethissmart" not sufficient?
 
Well, obviously the system doesn't give a shit! :Đ Jokes aside, just a naked form. Sexy, but naked. Preparing to offload it all soon, dump the db, load the db and shit.
 
hi
 
6:22 AM
also, I need to hackaway the access routines, so there's no .php shit.
 
i have an out of topic question
 
I don't want to look at it.
@techno Porn is always welcome.
 
Are mysql databases deployed at a website downloadable
I mean does it need more security or something?
i have a sort of foolish doubt??
plz guide me
 
You can dump the database, but it's pretty secure. Unless you make it publicly available with a hefty amount of work, nobody can have it besides you. If I'd decoded your question correctly, that is.
 
"Can mysql databases deployed at a website downloadable" makes NO sense, please re-phrase it
 
6:24 AM
@techno No.
go ask a question on SO like a sane person
 
sane™
 
@DeadMG I'm still waiting for some one to make a hybrid, the perfect combination of both dog and cat
 
Let's make a male cat fuck DeadMG's Daisy.
Perhaps it will evolve into a wookie.
 
haha
 
sorry for the grammer
 
6:26 AM
no male cat would make it within 100 yards of Daisy
@techno Also, apologize for intruding on our chat, for chatting, with your question.
 
plz guys
 
@techno Databases deployed on any web server are not downloadable.
Unless you provide an interface for someone to do that without administrative access.
End of story.
 
@techno well, we did try, but we are not exactly sure what you are asking...
 
@techno No.
fuck it guys, just plonk him
 
@DomagojPandža my parents got a dog recently, looks just like a wookie
@DeadMG don't be a dick, sure it's not the smartest of questions, but at least he is not accusing us of being idiots because we can't decipher what he is asking, yet...
 
6:30 AM
the chat is for chatting, not randomers dumping random questions.
 
True that. Besides, he got the answer already.
 
we have a whole site for that- it's called "Stack Overflow".
 
I gave it to him, DeadMG - in his concise form, "No."
 
indeed it is, but there is no need to chase away every newb who comes here
 
well, if we don't chase them away, they'll stay
 
6:32 AM
And then they'll ask for food.
 
but there is no need to chase him away, he only asked a simple question, and then left. There was no 'oh you guys are retards if you can't help me'
 
Not yet, at least.
It's dormant on SO.
A special scenario triggers it.
 
the fact that he came here and dumped a random question and begged for an answer is plenty of cause to chase him away
 
But the truth is, they're all infected.
 
well your just a grumpy arse :P
 
6:35 AM
And here comes Radek - vacuum cleaner and pastebin extraordinaire.
 
and why the devil does 'arse' still get an underline? it's a real word damn it! it's just racist :(
 
lol
 
And bug tracker engineer!
 
I can't stop listening to this. :(
 
nor could I
when it was new like, six months ago or something
 
6:38 AM
I got into a new phase a few days ago. Hope it goes away soon.
I usually wear songs off, lose all taste for them and love them again 6-12 months later.
Repeat.
 
beats it hands down
better in every way
 
White & nerdy and Weird Al simply win.
Somewhere a clock strikes midnight...
And there's a full moon in the sky...
You hear a DeadMG bark in the distance...
You hear someone's message got flagged...
 
woof?
 
well, that's clearly a wood and not a bark, silly dog, doesn't know it's own language
 
excuse me
which of us speaks dog?
 
6:45 AM
Daisy?
 
oh, wait, it's me and not you
 
well, you are clearly attempting to :P
 
It's true, cosh, the song says so.
A DeadMG barks in the distance.
There are many DeadMGs, it seems.
So, I was bored yesterday and I fleshed out a little web app which craps out dynamic slideshows which animate when they move from one to another. Also, there's syntax highlighting. So you guys will be able to make slides presenting your tremendous work to the Kyromasses. Part of the wiki system.
Really, a retard could use it.
And syntax highlighting was only defined for C++ (with C++11 keyword additions). If anybody desires anything else, do it yourself, you cunts.
So your autos won't feel left out.
 
7:02 AM
Ahahah, just noticed a form of the Schrödinger's equation in White & Nerdy, nice.
 
7:28 AM
@DeadMG you still around?
 
somewhat
 
well, I've done a fair bit of work on the old windowing system... do you mind having a look over the code in my repo to see what you make of the general architecture I have got sort of sorted
 
uh, maybe later
 
of course :P at work now, so if you do see any problems, maybe just email me a list of details or make a wiki page or something
 
7:45 AM
I think I need more buzz words in my CV...
 
Be careful what you ask for.
 
bzzt
 
...because you just might get it.
 
@DeadMG Any plans for today?
 
sleep
hardly ate anything so maybe I'll actually get some
 
7:50 AM
and take Daisy for a walk
 
nah, back at my uni pad
 
ah okey
 
besides, all the good places to walk the dog were fenced off over the last twelve months
my parents usually drive her someplace too far to walk now
 
Fenced off, why?
 
no idea
 
7:52 AM
This summer sucks, it's been raining every day now for weeks it feels like
Fortunately, I'm working so I don't have to think about it too much
 
Working?
 
Yes, sitting inside an office in front of a computer
=)
 
I know an anime that is called working.
@ManofOneWay Not as in paid work?
 
Of course I get paid
 
Oh, never mind. I was just a little confused.
 
7:55 AM
@StackedCrooked What are you up to?
 
DeadMG's avatar changed and it messes with my mind.
@ManofOneWay I'm also working.
 
@ManofOneWay summer was the week or two we had back in march or something
 
@StackedCrooked Surprisingly disorientating, isn't it?
 
I can't ask something here, can i ?
 
@thecoshman haha
@PatrickBassut You already did
 
7:59 AM
haha, right.
 
@PatrickBassut you can. What will happen if you do so is hard to predict
 
if you have an interesting question, you can
 
@ManofOneWay So, that means I can
 
Sometimes, people put a small amount of effort into questions asked here. Sometime not.
 
else expect to be told to ask it on the main site
 
7:59 AM
@ja
 
@jalf
 
But it still boggles my mind why people don't just use SO
 

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