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2:00 PM
Can we agree on keeping the code simple?
I thought Google would be a bit smarter, it works now. "You are signed in as [email protected], but you don't have permission to access this item. "
I hope know one minds me being the doc owner and only one able to change permissions
No lambda crap unless absolutely necessary
by the way
@Neil WHAAT ? NO LAMBDA :D ?
2:00 PM
@Neil Isn't that always the idea behind coding?
@Neil o c'mon
not all of us seem to have a BB account
@Neil How can you programme without lambdas :D ?
@DeadMG The engrish is strong with you
I had localized source control because I'm a lonely bastard. :$
Fine, but only if they're short
user784668
2:01 PM
@Neil lol
I've gone to create a team, and domagoj, scarlet, daknok, tony, and neil do not seem to have an account :P
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How nice of them.
I have localized source control as well, forever alone for the lose. Anyway, I'm off to make a BitBucket account then.
@DeadMG on github?
@TonyTheLion Bitbucket
2:02 PM
creating one now
oh yeah, should connect it to social networking sites, a zynga RTS :-/
we've gone for bitbucket with HG for version control
I need to go take a piss. My bladder is about to overflow.
I registered everyone in the team under their posted email address
2:03 PM
@CatPlusPlus Got yours
oh, apparently we need a team e-mail address?
Bitbucket says I've been upgraded to an unlimited community account or something for having a .edu email
@Collin Under what address?
@DeadMG My bitbucket nick: ScarletAmaranth
> There should be a header file which defines macros like WINDOWS, MACOSX and LINUX so that they work with all the compilers.
ifdefing platform code sucks.
2:04 PM
100 Users $100 / month

Seriously, someone pays for this?
I'd rather set $100 on fire.
@CatPlusPlus That should not be there.
@DomagojPandža Corporate folks might
@CatPlusPlus Isn't there stuff in boost's config.hpp?
user784668
@DomagojPandža Give them to me instead.
@CatPlusPlus it's got to be done some where, but it should be in some library
@EtiennedeMartel I don't know. That's best resolved at build system level.
I got you Collin
@thecoshman It should be behind an interface.
the vast majority of the engine code should be platform-independent
2:06 PM
> tonytheangrylion has been rather secretive lately
only missing daknok and domagoj on the team
I'm in the list.
One more thing, I ought to register as an individual with my @googledoc-used address?
Oh wait I'll make a Bitbucket account.
@RadekSlupik Not on BB.
@DomagojPandža Yes.
2:07 PM
I was preventing bladder overflow, I'm on it now.
@DeadMG you still setting it up?
@thecoshman Yeah.
also, we need a team e-mail account
@DeadMG explains why I can't see it
@DeadMG I created an account "daknok".
@DeadMG what's that involve?
2:07 PM
I can create one in my domain, if you want. :P
@CatPlusPlus Please do
Oki-doki, the account is up, bitbucket.org/Overseer
Also, what code convention do we use? PascalCase, camelCase, whatever_the_hell_boost_uses?
I'd prefer PascalCase
Good point.
2:08 PM
please no __ :(
I like camelCase, I don't mind PascalCase, I hate this_fucking_shit
I prefer fooBar for functions and variables and FooBar for types.
user784668
@EtiennedeMartel __use__double__underscores__everywhere__.
@DomagojPandža (majority will win, I'm afraid)
@ScarletAmaranth Agreed
2:08 PM
guys, get the bitbucket team password from the Google Doc
@DeadMG Lovely looking
and shove it in your PW DBs
@Fanael __except__at__the__start__
user784668
@sehe Why?
@Fanael are you trolling?
2:10 PM
someone added me to the bitbucket yet?
right
yeah
@dead stop reading this and hurry up
Code can be so pretty. Let's make it pretty. PascalCase, camelCase, all game. Just not _
the Team is all done except the team email, which CatPlusPlus is working on.
user784668
@sehe No, this is a serious question.
2:10 PM
when that's done, we are good to go
i_like_underscores
9
unless they want us to pay, in which case not sure what to do
And how do we login this shit?
I think that camelCase and PascalCase is best because you can do things like MyType myType;.
I like underscores as well.
2:10 PM
@DeadMG what does the team thing do other a normal repo?
@DeadMG everyone pay a part lol
@Fanael perhaps search SO for it
Also: max line length?
80 chars? 180 chars? none?
user784668
@sehe Ah, in this case, you fail.
Less than 150 km is a good rule of thumb.
2:11 PM
@RadekSlupik i'd say: REasonable :P
@thecoshman I can host, I have a world accessible machine
I'm happy with something large like 180
Also, common sense.
who the fuck cares about max line length
Yeah, just reasonable.
Readability, baby!
user784668
@sehe "Each name that contains a double underscore __ or begins with an underscore followed by an uppercase letter (2.12) is reserved to the implementation for any use."
@CatPlusPlus Did you set the PW to the one in the google doc?
@Collin mercurial...
No, I've generated one. Sec.
2:12 PM
@thecoshman Yeah, I can host hg
Bitbucket is currently making me feel herpderp weird.
@Collin Dvcs
@thecoshman yeah, but you still want a central place to push to, right?
unless one person is the build-master, like linus is
@Fanael That's some twisted logic you're using there, but I guess you have a point. Funny to set me up like that :)
but even they have a blessed repo he pushed to that other people update from
2:13 PM
> clounge is over its plan limit. Committers have read only access.
Plans and billing can suck my dick.
clounge ~= clownz?
@CatPlusPlus Lemme try creating a team with my special edu account...
We'll get to cloungexexexex by the end of the day.
2:14 PM
@DomagojPandža github, selfhost
oooh, sounds like clung
@CatPlusPlus Nah, there's a link to just upgrade.
Privacy, sehe, privacy.
@thecoshman clung looks like dung
> clounge is over its plan limit. Committers have read only access. Resolve this.
2:14 PM
I can manage a host, but it would take time.
so someone's gonna have to pay or this shit is gonna suck already
@DeadMG Yeah, but with moneys.
eh, it's only $10 a month
Can we not use google code?
K now finding out how to set up Hg.
2:15 PM
I can save that by not buying like, two McDonalds
I'll pay it
Guys guys. Wasn't the point of DVCS that it doesn't matter where it's hosted
@Neil Google Code only offers OSS hosting.
lol two McDonald's
@sehe You need a central point where everybody can push to and pull from.
2:16 PM
@TonyTheLion Real estate dropped a lot in value over recent periods
cat, how do we access the team email?
Damn, @DeadMG's dedicated.
Well there's my account anyway
Atlassian's website is slow as fuck.
@RadekSlupik Not really. You'd just want reasonable uptimes of all contributing parties. Designate one as the master. Done
2:16 PM
@DeadMG it's in the doc
@RadekSlupik It's not used so serving a whole chat room at once :->
I've confirmed the email.
@DeadMG Either mail.piotrl.pl or just login through standard Google thingy.
They unified it a while ago.
So, how exactly does this Mercurial nonsense work?
@CatPlusPlus Can't seem to log in
WTF y can't I push.
2:19 PM
WTF
why do we have to have a tax ID?
we're not a damn company
@RadekSlupik Using the bathroom are you?
@RadekSlupik Because a free plan has a team size limit.
I've logged out.
Someone give Scarlet a rundown, my brother just came to visit me. I need to derp around for a while, in a day or two I might be able to write up a document for working in teams and everything that drags along.
@DeadMG Can you just add collaborators to a personal repo?
2:20 PM
Maybe only one person can access that at the time.
So, I've just got 5 mails.
Thank you.
And Google logged me out of all accounts. Thanks, Google.
Same, god...
well, fuck
I can't even sign up to pay Bitbucket because apparently, you have to be a company with a tax ID.
@DeadMG I can set up an hg repo host on my server for now
2:21 PM
yeah, let's do that
Hg sucks.
Hg > Git
5
It'll have to wait until tonight when I get home, but I've done it before on a different machine
Do i want "tortoise hg" with mercurial or just mercurial ?
TortoiseHg is cool.
2:22 PM
TortoiseHg is just a nice GUI layer
can everyone hit collinhockey.com? My work doesn't like freedns...
What the fuck is this certificate shit
right
we need an alternative hosting solution
user784668
@RadekSlupik Hg is the Haskell of DVCS.
since I can't even pay bitbucket to use theirs
2:23 PM
Oh, god, can anything be fucking simple?
@DomagojPandža Apparently not.
user784668
@DomagojPandža Fucking can be fucking simple.
I'm fine with whatever repository or compiler you guys want to use, though I ask that anyone making these decisions writes in the documentation how to download and compile
@DeadMG That's a very nice business model they got there.
And now I've logged in in the wrong order, and dammmit.
2:24 PM
I could probably figure it out eventually, but I'm not fond of that idea
@Fanael Against the wall, there's effort involved. :Đ
@EtiennedeMartel I know, right?
Where do you see that tax ID stuff, anyway?
I agree with @Neil , someone should write a little doc saying how to Download / Upload source, make edits and build.
I'm running out of RAM and screen estate for browser tabs.
2:24 PM
lol
@ScarletAmaranth Well, we'll need some sort of build system or whatever. While we're at it, might as well write some doc.
Just a sec, need to ram the car out of the garage.
> System Commit: 8.1GB
on my system :P
@EtiennedeMartel cmake is not horrible
not horrible is about as good as build systems get
2:25 PM
@Cat, what's your take on CMake?
Oh awesome. Hg defaults to the worst editor of all time for entering commit messages: Vim.
not cmake please
Sucks as anything else. But we can start with it, and then see.
scons is cool, but doesn't do the autoconfy sort of things cmake or (gag) autotools does
brb need to recycle some stuff
2:26 PM
@Collin It does.
So, I push changes I made and they don't appear on Bitbucket nor do I get an error message. How awesome.
Did you push, or did you just commit?
user784668
@RadekSlupik s/worst/best/; s/ for entering commit messages//
@CatPlusPlus Really? I've done stuff where I write the code to figure out which platform I'm on, but you can autoconf stuff?
@DeadMG not McDonalds I hope :P
2:27 PM
@Collin There are configure contexts for this sort of stuff.
My take on everything that it needs to be as painless as possible. Writing a game is a feat on its own, I don't need lousy software engineering redtape holding us back.
@CatPlusPlus Ah, cool
I don't see an utility in checking for system headers to accommodate broken and obscure platforms, but still.
user784668
Last time I used Scons it was fucking slow on Windows.
SCons defaults to MD5 stamping.
2:28 PM
@DomagojPandža I'm taking you're not working in a large studio on a AAA title?
Oh I finally get an error message.
> remote: abort: the account owner 'clounge' has exceeded their user limit - write access is disabled to the repository 'the-game'.
@Fanael I guess I was building in cygwin, but I thought it was alright
@RadekSlupik There's a huge yellow banner at the top of the screen on BB that explains the issue, and you're still wondering why you can't?
@EtiennedeMartel Luckily, I get to dictate how shit gets done at my company. Keeps the troops happy, I am a benevolent ruler.
@Fanael Last time I checked Windows was fucking slow
2:29 PM
@EtiennedeMartel See it now. :P
user784668
@sehe Windows 1.0 was released in 1985, don't you think it's time for upgrade?
oh god we have to decide between tabs or spaces
@Collin 4 spaces, or so I read
@Neil Ah, perfect
2:31 PM
@Fanael Though it rarely is
You know. Heroku does free Git private hosting (for as many users as you want) as long as you host a web app, but I'm not sure about the max repo size. But that will mean there will be crap in the repo.
@Fanael I do. Not enough others seem to see the need :L]
I fully expect within the first 5 minutes of the repository being open, we're going to see more collision than you'd expect to see if a 747 crash-landed on a crowded freeway
@RadekSlupik Yes, let's risk the loss of a primary repo.
Good idea.
@Fanael Oh you mean, speed has actually been improved a lot since. As long as you don't compare apples/pears by installing Windows 7
2:33 PM
Also, I propose a distributed model, not everyone writing to the same repo.
So, create master, everyone forks and then we figure out merge management.
ok I'm gonna try pay for the bitbucket thing
@CatPlusPlus Still doesn't help if sooner or later you need to merge these changes
lemme fix this for you dorks :P
Hey, how about doing evolutionary development. Everybody work, in isolation on the same feature, and the best implementation wins
@Neil It does help with managing stuff and then merging it.
2:34 PM
So, has it been decided yet where the main repo is gonna be hosted ?
@CatPlusPlus Why not just branch instead of creating separate repos?
...
@sehe Yup, and then in 78 years, we will have a game rdy :)
@CatPlusPlus You guarantee there are no collisions, but that's as far as it goes. Merging is important too. :P
@EtiennedeMartel Write conflicts.
2:34 PM
@CatPlusPlus In Hg?
@ScarletAmaranth So nothing changes. It is a win-win if ever mankind saw one
Even if we stay on separate branches, the history will look like hell.
Really, pull-merge model is better.
Dropbox!
Someone needs to create a backbone to the game, and it needs to be done by one person who knows what they're doing
After that, the details can be fleshed out by millions of TODOs
We just need someone who'll handle the master and pull changes in.
2:36 PM
Then the work can begin
Bonus: we can do code reviews on pull requests.
And ensure master always builds.
So who creates the backbone?
And even do crazy Git things like collapse branches into single changesets.
We're designing and organising still.
Mostly organising.
@CatPlusPlus No, I know. But we can at least come to an agreement on who decides ultimately
I know people love democracy, but that makes an awful program
I'll be back in an hour or two and write an outline of proposed development model.
2:38 PM
The game is @DeadMG's baby it seems
so do we want the bitbucket thing or not?
We need someone to take decisions
@CatPlusPlus You trolling? I would be fine with that. Though you had best confirm it with the others
@Neil No, I'm not trolling.
Also, is it Kyrostat or Kryostat?
None of those so far I reckon.
2:39 PM
I'll describe it and then we can discuss it. :P
Kyrostat
user784668
@Neil You misspelled something.
Okay, gotta go, don't do anything without me!
Yeah, well, sort this repo thing.
2:39 PM
OK. LEMME STEP UP AND DECIDE

A. You guys will create your own -Cry-/-Kry-/-Kyrostat ROOM
B. You take your 'organizing' meeting over there...

I'll be happy to pin a message to the starboard in case anyone was too shy to ask where you all went.
2
@DomagojPandža Used to be "Cryostat", but someone decided good titles had good typos. So, "Kyrostat" it is.
@sehe is right. This is stupid :)
Yeah, we can create a room.
This rool will feel awfully empty then.
@EtiennedeMartel That someone was you, wasn't it :P
2:40 PM
@ScarletAmaranth No, it was Mister Roboto.
@EtiennedeMartel aaa, ok :P
Why hasn't the heretic sehe been assimilated yet?
Maybe we won't get shot down by moderation.
We seek perfection.
Resistance is futile.
2:41 PM
we should have our own chat system outside of SO for this

 Kyrostat

Inactive room, go away.
5
user784668
@DomagojPandža You misspelled assassinated?
Feb 12 at 23:12, by sehe
@Ell I don't do games. Self preservation.
guys, you must be on the team right now if you want owner access in the Kryo room
requests go in this room.
@sehe Tommoz / Sunday, cup of chess :) ?
2:48 PM
*cricket chirping*
@RadekSlupik I don't think it makes sense for me to host that. I host repositories for a few projects, but I'm actually 'affiliated' - I know from experience that there will be the day that something needs to be done at a time that doesn't really convene me. I don't wish to be the sysadmin on that day :)
all the crickets have gone
Fwoop fwoop fwoop
code.google.com supports Mercurial, Git, and subversion
2:49 PM
@sehe The gauntlet is really dusty by now! :)
^ What's the point of lying about the code not compiling, and asking about that?
@Neil Wrong room, Neil.
oh :(
@ScarletAmaranth Chess isn't a game. It's business
2:51 PM
@sehe I'm not following I'm afraid :) ?
@ScarletAmaranth Oh, nothing then :)
@sehe You mean it's something more than just a game ?
It's dead serious
@sehe Oh come on :P

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