« first day (564 days earlier)      last day (4369 days later) » 

11:00 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes That would remove at least half the citations from most academic papers. Half the papers are published primarily the build reputation for an earlier one by adding more citations to it.
 
Ah, found it:
Wikipedia articles must not contain original research. The term "original research" (OR) is used on Wikipedia to refer to material—such as facts, allegations, and ideas—for which no exist. This includes any analysis or synthesis of published material that . To demonstrate that you are not adding OR, you must be able to cite reliable, published sources that are directly related to the topic of the article, and directly support the material being presented. The prohibition against OR means that all material added to articles must be attributable to a reliable published source, even if...
@JerryCoffin Oh, you said from academic papers. Nevermind. I was talking about wikipedia.
 
@JerryCoffin those papers aren't wikipedia entries, so no problem.
 
What if you're one of the foremost experts? Can Bjarne cite himself on an article about C++?
 
Dammit. What's the opposite of AssignProcessToJobObject?
 
Ah, I didn't realize the "you can't self cite" was about Wiki. I guess I should realized, but I assumed any citation to Wiki was purely for humor.
 
11:03 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Does Bjarne count as a related, reliable source? If so, then I think he can.
 
@GManNickG UnassignProcessFromJobObject? AssignJobObjectFromProcess? OppositeOfAssignProcessToJobObjectFactory?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes What you said is way too sensible and reasonable for me.
 
@stdOrgnlDave If only.
 
@GManNickG AFAIR you can't pull processes out of a job.
 
@CatPlusPlus :|
 
11:04 PM
yes, but Bjarne's citation of himself isn't reliable unless it's somewhere that it can be reasonably proven that he said it. someone (even him) can't just sign in and say "I said it"
 
@CatPlusPlus Even if you say "fuck you bitch" to the job?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I don't get it. that answer is still at -3/+0 and the original (deleted) was at -8/+3. So far I can only see evidence of 3 people who think that including headers is UB. Did you actually click those links he mentions?
 
@stdOrgnlDave What if he is The President of the United States of America?
@sehe Yes.
 
   #include<stdio.h>
   #include <dos.h>

Ooh there you go, you included a nonstandard header.  So it behaves
strangely because you invoked undefined behavior.
 
@sehe You're in on it too?
LALALALALALALA NOT LISTENING LALALALALALALALALALALALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU LALALALALALA
 
11:06 PM
I'm looking at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:V#Sources and trying to decide if a 3rd party blog post about the existence of a type of sort along with working source code counts as a reliable source. It's fuzzy, but I think it falls on the side of "no".
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I just think that's a funny 'back-up' source for a guy who ends his post saying
> So, watch out for people giving C advice who rely on "undefined behavior" as their main reasoning tool.
 
@GManNickG As far as I know, it can't be done. The closest I know of it creating a new process running the same executable, with the CREATE_BREAKAWAY_FROM_JOB job flag pased to CreateProcess.
 
@MooingDuck The NOR rule is exactly about this. You can't just put something up on the Interwebs and cite from it.
@sehe LALALALALALALA NOT LISTENING LALALALALALALALALALALALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU LALALALALALA
It was a nice prank, but I don't want to hear about it anymore.
 
CREATE_BREAKAWAY_FROM_JOB is only necessary if the calling process is part of the job. If it's a supervisor, then it's probably not inside the job.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I don't know the NOR rule, but the paragraph on the page seems to accept flimsy sources if they provide undebatable proof, and are fact-checked. It's the fact-checking part that seems to get in the way of the blog.
 
user406009
11:09 PM
@sehe I think someone is mistaking "not defined by the standard" and "undefined behavior". Or I am reading that wrong?
 
@MooingDuck NOR = No Original Research. I linked to above.
 
@EthanSteinberg he says so clearly: "But undefined behavior does not mean "bad behavior"; it is simply behavior for which the ISO C standard gives no definition. Not all undefined behaviors are the same."
 
XOR = eXtreme Original Research?
 
@MooingDuck looking at the Wikipedia article and reading over the space complexity part, what different strategy do you suggest employing?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes "The term "original research" (OR) is used on Wikipedia to refer to material—such as facts, allegations, and ideas—for which no reliable, published sources exist." That's why I was on the "reliable source" page.
@stdOrgnlDave it's possible to rearrange the location of the pivot element itself to keep track of where partitions are, making the stack/recursion unneeded. It becomes purely iterative.
 
11:11 PM
@JerryCoffin @CatPlusPlus Yeah, looks like you guys are right. That's okay, is supremely more important that the child processes go down with the supervisor by default than users being able to detach particular child processes from the supervisor.
 
Well, I'm not a wikilawyer (and they disencourage that anyway), so take what I say with a pinch of IANAWL.
 
@MooingDuck that sounds really, really slow, because if you're not keeping state data (where the partitions are), you're going to have to re-analyze it every step
 
@stdOrgnlDave it's definitely slower, I don't argue that. My first working attempt was almost an order of magnatude slower. Point is, it's possible.
 
Remember that big ugly spider from hell that viciously attacked me few months (?) ago? Turns out it came back, even bigger.
But this time I emerged victorious, and now it's flat and good riddance.
 
11:13 PM
@CatPlusPlus I'm sorry to have to break this to you, but... there's more than one spider in the world.
 
Woa, that must have been quite the epic battle.
 
@MooingDuck @RMartinhoFernandes The definition of "reliable source" is purposefully left to a case-by-case basis, because some topics have more research than others.
 
@MooingDuck is there any specific reason you would want to do that?
 
@EthanSteinberg That's what I'd say
 
No visual on enemy in this room, so I can sleep.
 
11:14 PM
Also, "viciously attacked" is a bit of an hyperbole. It was more like you "viciously stayed away from it".
 
@stdOrgnlDave I tell myself it's for use in devices with large amounts of data and highly limited stacks. But really: no.
 
It was strategical.
 
@MooingDuck I'm still not convinced it's a quicksort.
 
@CatPlusPlus, level 85 Spider Crusher.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes the newer faster version will be more clearly a quicksort.
 
11:15 PM
Doesn't your algorithm do a bunch of partitions up front?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes well, yes. LogN
 
@MooingDuck why not just use a heapsort in that situation
 
@MooingDuck The point is, quicksort partitions once and then conquers.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes hmm. Maybe
 
Hey guys :)
 
11:16 PM
So it's a new sort that happens to work almost exactly like a quicksort except it has a step before it begins?
 
Dunno.
Just felt it was worth pointing out that difference.
 
@stdOrgnlDave shush
 
@EtiennedeMartel He's dead, Jim.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes it's a valid stance
 
Dammit. If I open the window, I'll be swimming in mosquitoes and other flying crap in 5 minutes. If I don't open the window, I'll be sitting in what feels like ~30 degrees.
 
11:18 PM
My take-away from reading those links is that indeed it is good to keep in mind that the search order for headers included in <> style is implementation-defined. That can lead to hard to diagnose problems. They're basically saying that the compiler might deliberately ship non-standard headers that trigger nonsense in the compiler. And that would be allowed. Meh. (@RMartinhoFernandes)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes actually, a new idea is forming. I think there's a way to code it to not need that precursor step. Maybe.
 
@CatPlusPlus First World Problem.
 
@CatPlusPlus get a screen
 
Effort.
Also it's 2AM.
1:20. But still.
 
@CatPlusPlus wait, it's 30 degrees unless you open the window? Oh, Celsius ? I got it
 
11:20 PM
sounds like a good investment though
 
@MooingDuck Yeah, Celsius. You know, the right scale.
 
lol
 
@CatPlusPlus Kelvin?
 
@MooingDuck how trivial is your implementation? I'm really interested in pointing out where you failed :-P
 
Kelvin is shifted Celsius.
Same scale.
 
11:21 PM
Calvin (in Holland)
 
What are you guys talking about?
 
@AhmedJolani Scroll up
 
ok :(
 
@MooingDuck Oh, well, glad I helped trigger new synapses.
Now I'm going to allow mine to go wild and stop making sense, i.e., dream. Good night.
 
I'm an American, and I have to say, the Fahrenheit system is indeed fucked up.
 
11:22 PM
hmm, I'm not sure celsius is the right one, because it is defined by the behavior of water in a specific atmospheric composition and pressure...it's almost as arbitrary as farenheit from an abstract perspective
 
night owl all
 
But I grew up that way... so...
 
@stdOrgnlDave It's the right arbitrary.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes agreed
honestly I think 0 should be "mildly cold" and 100 should be "a bit too hot"
 
Showers use binary "too hot" and "too cold" system.
 
11:24 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes If you're going to pick a "right" arbitrary, Kelvins win.
 
0x1E celcius
= 1E celcius
why use base 10? that's pretty arbitrary too
 
Every base is base 10.
2
 
in fact, XXX celcius
 
@stdOrgnlDave I'm confused. That sounds like you're in favor of Fahrenheit.
 
@stdOrgnlDave fingers and toes + history. Otherwise, we'd switch to 2/16
 
11:25 PM
XXX Celsius is a porn movie.
 
So absolute zero is the coldest temperature when the atoms aren't moving at all. What about the opposite? When the atoms are moving at the speed of light. What Kelvin is that?
 
@MooingDuck 16? WTF?
 
I found the Philippines unbearably hot, but even that was only like 90 or maybe 95 Celsius... :-)
 
Base sixty is so much awesomer (or if you want to keep the number of symbols low, base twelve then).
 
@RMartinhoFernandes merely as a shorthand
 
11:26 PM
@Mysticial you really, really don't want someone to explain the answer to that in detail
 
@RMartinhoFernandes A number system that starts with "Sex" has to be awesome.
 
> Base 8 is just like base 10, if you're missing two fingers.
 
@Mysticial I think since it's vibration, it's much more complex than that. I know the individual components of an atom can be less than 0 kelvin (somehow)
@RMartinhoFernandes so 2 with 64 shorthand?
 
@MooingDuck No.
 
@Mysticial It's called absolute hot.
Absolute hot is a concept of temperature that postulates the existence of a highest attainable temperature of matter. The idea has been popularized by the television series Nova. In this presentation, absolute hot is assumed to be the high end of a temperature scale starting at absolute zero, which is the temperature at which entropy is minimized and classical thermal energy is zero. Current cosmological models postulate that the highest possible temperature is the Planck temperature, which has the value . The Planck temperature is assumed to be the highest temperature in conventional phys...
 
Base sixty is awesome because 2,3,4, and 5 are divisors of 60.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes 2 makes so much more sense than any other integer base though
 
@stdOrgnlDave I don't know about you, but where I come from, 0˚C is indeed "mildly cold".
 
Base twelve drops the five in favour of less symbols.
 
grah, planck limits EVERYTHING. what aj erk
 
11:27 PM
The best integer base is 3, because the best real base is e. 3 is closer to e than 2.
 
@GManNickG The best base would be Pi, which is three (in Kansas).
 
base pi is handy if you're feeling down
because pi is delicious
 
So temperature should be a number between 0 and 1. Where 0 is absolute zero and 1 is absolute hot.
 
@GManNickG Base e yields the most efficient something, right?
 
Let's make temperatures complex.
 
11:29 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Most efficient all kinds of things.
 
I'm off to write a library that converts celcius to farenheit with accuracy to tenths of a degree. I'm going to use template specialization because you just can't trust your processor vendor to be IEEE compliant so why not hard-code it the hard way?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes If I recall, base i is interesting because it can reach all real and unreal integers in a single counting system.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes: Radix economy:
 
@stdOrgnlDave That already exists btw: <chrono>.
 
Various proposals have been made to quantify the relative costs between using different radices in representing numbers, especially in computer systems. Definition The radix economy E(b,N) for any particular number N in a given base b is equal to the number of digits needed to express it in that base, multiplied by the radix: : :E(b,N) = b \lfloor \log_b (N) +1 \rfloor \, . : The radix economy measures the cost of storing or transmitting the number N in base b if the cost of each "digit" is proportional to b. A base with a lower average radix economy is therefore, in some senses, more ef...
 
user406009
11:30 PM
@stdOrgnlDave Or you could use integers and count in tenths of degrees. But go ahead and reinvent the wheel.
 
all your base are belong to us!
 
@MooingDuck "imaginary". lol unreal.
 
@EthanSteinberg it is called a joke...
 
Unreal is a game.
 
@CatPlusPlus you sound like a chat bot right now
2
 
11:31 PM
Outlook not good.
 
@stdOrgnlDave These days it's about the triple point though, so that's somewhat less arbitrary.
 
Warning. Incoming game.
 
@MooingDuck You could just put a Hilbert curve over the plane, and count everything in terms of distances along that curve.
 
You just lost it.
 
@JerryCoffin I have no idea what you just said
@stdOrgnlDave quick! Give him the turing test!
 
11:33 PM
My brain is preoccupied. I'm thinking about the redesign internal architecture of a semi-broken codebase.
I get nothing.
 
@MooingDuck @CatPlusPlus google.com/recaptcha/demo/ajax quick!
 
using celsius_per_fahrenheit = std::ratio<9,5>;
template <typename T>
using fahrenheit_degrees = std::duration<T, celsius_per_fahrenheit>; // mwhwhahaha
template <typename T>
using celsius_degrees = std::duration<T, 1>; // mwhwhahaha
 
@CatPlusPlus You missed the reference to ReBoot here.
 
@stdOrgnlDave I can't read that :( I must be human.
 
> Canadian CGI-animated action-adventure cartoon series that originally aired from 1994 to 2001
Did it have beavers?
 
11:34 PM
Shit, got the numbers wrong.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes yup
@RMartinhoFernandes also there has to be an adjustment along the... thing.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes but what if std::chrono is implemented wrong? I NEED IT TO BE PERFECT NO MATTER WHAT. in fact, I'm going to go over the gcc codebase to make sure it treats ASCII character number encodings properly!
I'm reinventing the wheel and this time I'm doing it right!
 
@CatPlusPlus Unfortunately, no. But it was the first full-CG series.
 
@MooingDuck For that you hijack the time_point class.
 
@MooingDuck A Hilbert curve is a shape built out of a single line that, at the limit, covers a plane. You can specify any point on a plane to arbitrary accuracy by specifying a point along a Hilbert curve of sufficient degree.
 
11:36 PM
@JerryCoffin so to determine accuracy, you need two numbers to determine a point on a plane (I'm reading the wiki)
 
And make thermometers instead of clocks!
 
@MooingDuck No -- the degree of curve is predefined, roughly like you'd predetermine the number of bits in a floating point number. You don't normally specify "64 bits" every time you use a double...
 
Now I have to feed this thing to GCC. But tomorrow. I really need to sleep now.
Good night.
 
you know what, I can't trust GCC to write this code, I'm off to write an assembly language header file for my array for conversion
wait
 
@JerryCoffin I thought we were discussing alternate numeric systems to replace base 10.
 
11:38 PM
what if it takes the wrong syntax by accident!?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes G'night. Enjoy your recharge.
 
@stdOrgnlDave go to sleep
 
someone get me a hex editor! stat!
 
@stdOrgnlDave what if there's corruption on the HD?
 
11:39 PM
@MooingDuck that's what parity is for
 
@RMartinhoFernandes But, why?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes really? linking me to reflections on trusting trust? you do know that two of my areas of expertise are security and cryptography? well, you do now.
 
@MooingDuck You were, but I changed the subject to something more interesting.
 
I think base infinity would save us all a lot of writing space
 
@JerryCoffin you should warn people :D
 
11:42 PM
any bash programmer here ?
 
@MooingDuck Are you trying to imply that if I did, conversations here would be coherent?
 
you know that base infinity is possible right? represent your number as a line, scaled against other lines. for computers, rock it analog style, and if you need bigger numbers, get a bigger amplifier
 
yesterday, by Mooing Duck
hmm, when I go to https://www.facebook.com/, and type my login details, the page merely refreshes. I clicked the security info, and it says "unable to check whether the certificate has been revoked". I click "...cannot guarantee that you are communicating with www.verisign.com and not an attacker."
@JerryCoffin ... maybe...
 
@Failed_Noob Probably not, but if you look hard, you might find somebody willing to bash bash programmers. Would that do?
 
@stdOrgnlDave I don't buy that
 
11:45 PM
@MooingDuck what's the difference between verisign and an attacker?
 
@stdOrgnlDave I'm not sure, and I can't prove anything
 
> Editor's note: This story is based on internal al Qaeda documents, details of which were obtained by CNN. Hundreds of documents were discovered by German cryptologists embedded inside a pornographic movie on a memory disk belonging to a suspected al Qaeda operative arrested in Berlin last year. The German newspaper Die Zeit was the first to report on the documents
 
@JerryCoffin lol
 
@sehe Brilliant.
 
@stdOrgnlDave You can't scale against infinity. Half of infinity is still infinity. Same with any finite scale factor.
 
11:47 PM
@JerryCoffin indeed, the scale is not against infinity, it is against other lines. we can find an arbitrary length to equal our concept of "one"
 
@sehe IIRC, didn't he have it hidden in his pants or something?
 
@JamesCuster I think it was mentioned. I forgot that detail.
 
@stdOrgnlDave wait, lines, lemme think on that
 
like up and down
 
I must admit I'm pretty impressed with the skill and grit required to hide the information that well
 
11:48 PM
a really really long one would be 10,000
 
@stdOrgnlDave you are a very confusing person
 
@stdOrgnlDave Perhaps you mean "segments"? All lines, by definition, have infinite length.
 
"His interrogators were surprised to find that hidden in his underpants were a digital storage device and memory cards."
"This isn't suspicious at all."
- al Qaeda member
 
@sehe I think that if he didn't hide it in his underpants they wouldn't have been nearly as suspicious
I wonder if they would've even bothered to try to crack it
 
@stdOrgnlDave Indeed. Although, I don't usually carry my porn movies with me.
 
11:51 PM
didn't see "don't"
 
yeah yeah
 
he's Austrian, you know how they are with porn
 
Who is? the alleged al-qaeda member?
 
@sehe actually, I'm surprised they didn't hide it better. you have so many ways to hide data in compressed audio/video streams that you might not believe it
 
I believe they tend to prefer to keep their subjects in basements, or is that oldfashioned?
Anyways I'm starting to fell funny discussing things like these. I always get the nagging feeling I shouldn't be sharing my thoughts and give anyone better ideas. I know that is a bit of a grandiose idea, but still :)
 
11:56 PM
don't want to give anyone better ideas about stenography?
hehe
 
@stdOrgnlDave Like I said, a bit grandiose. But still.
 
you're right, self-authored and -distributed software is a problem, but at some point there has to be some kind of "key" - be it a program, a password they put into the program, etc.
 
@stdOrgnlDave stenography :)
36 mins ago, by sehe
night owl all
 

« first day (564 days earlier)      last day (4369 days later) »