« first day (558 days earlier)      last day (4382 days later) » 

12:02 AM
fascinating, when I go to users, and search for "martinho" I see @RMartinhoFernandes as having a number (rep?) of 547. But when I view his profile that says he has 36,464 rep.
oh, rep this week. Thanks mouseover text
 
12:30 AM
I should make a bufferstream thing too, for writing to an external buffer.
 
 
1 hour later…
1:35 AM
1
Q: Using inheritance, why is goPee() not defined in my test class?

Danny RancherI'm trying to use inheritance so that I can perform the code contained within the test class correctly. I'm unsure how to implement an abstract class or interface called Bathroom featuring the goPee() method. Do you know how to code it? Regards. import java.util.ArrayList; class Human { priva...

2
 
what
what about that question?
 
 
1 hour later…
2:57 AM
Oh my gooooood.
Want.
 
3:48 AM
why hello
oh damn, I missed the party
oh @RMartinhoFernandes I have missed you
 
4:42 AM
Hi...
 
hello
so I don't get how sorting a 100-element array is going to be faster than linearly checking it, since the sort has to check every element anyway
 
partitioning doesn't sort. Especially for only 5 elements, you could just make a separate collection of the top 5 elements. This is close enough to the same that it's probably open to question which would really win.
 
partitioning?
I guess it's late for talking for you, eh?
 
user406009
@stdOrgnlDave What is "linearly checking it"?
 
linear traversal. we're referencing about this: stackoverflow.com/questions/10327178/…
 
4:58 AM
partitioning is Hoare's select algorithm -- basically, it's like a quicksort, except that when you recurse, you only continue with the partition that contains the element you're looking for. You choose a pivot point (in this case, the 5th from the end) and it partitions the array so that the element at that position is the one that would be there if you sorted the whole array -- and those above are greater than those below.
On each side, however, the elements remain unsorted. Since it (on average) "drops" (ignores) half the array at each iteration, this has linear expected complexity.
 
Hi folks.
 
hey Nils
@GManNickG still compiling? :-D
 
@stdOrgnlDave Ha, no. I closed it last night.
 
@GManNickG I got it to dump core in release by making expansion ^3 instead of ^2. oh, the poor compilers that think they can predict complexity of template expansion and pointer mayhem...
 
@NilsPipenbrinck Hi Nils.
 
5:04 AM
Interesting question about the partitioning. I just has a look at the disassembly of nth_element and it's using the introselect algorithm internally (on gcc at least)
 
@NilsPipenbrinck Sounds reasonable -- since they're undoubtedly using introsort for std::sort, it's pretty easy to re-use most of the same code for introselect in nth_element.
 
@JerryCoffin I guess I'm just too tired to understand how you end up with the top 5 elements without comparing all of the elements in the array in one way or another
 
@stdOrgnlDave: Read:
In computer science, a selection algorithm is an algorithm for finding the kth smallest number in a list (such a number is called the kth order statistic). This includes the cases of finding the minimum, maximum, and median elements. There are O(n), worst-case linear time, selection algorithms. Selection is a subproblem of more complex problems like the nearest neighbor problem and shortest path problems. The term "selection" is used in other contexts in computer science, including the stage of a genetic algorithm in which genomes are chosen from a population for later breeding; see Select...
 
@stdOrgnlDave You do look at all the elements once. That's why it's linear overall.
 
maybe I misread, let me go back and look, I thought there was claimed O(logn)
oh, I see.
 
5:09 AM
@stdOrgnlDave If so I think it must have been mistaken. I'm pretty sure the best case for k order element is linear complexity.
 
it literally has to be, unless there is a property or pattern to the data already known beforehand. so on a naive list, O(n) is the best case
yeah, I guess the whole thing was a misunderstanding on my part. what's your analysis of philfingers' answer?
 
@stdOrgnlDave It'll work, and for only 5 elements, the complexity isn't too terrible. For the second collection, you really want to use a priority queue though. Walk through your main array, insert each item into your priority queue, then if the queue is larger than 5 elements, remove the smallest. Repeat 'til end of main array.
For only 5 elements, that won't make a lot of difference. If you wanted, say, the top million out of a few billion, it would be massively better.
 
it may, depending on what bounds you: memory speed or CPU. but that's a whole nother issue.
 
I haven't been following all of this, so I don't know how relevant partial sorting is. But I will find every excuse I can to link this question:
105
Q: Throwing the fattest people off of an overloaded airplane.

IvyMikeLet's say you've got an airplane, and it is low on fuel. Unless the plane drops 3000 pounds of passenger weight, it will not be able to reach the next airport. To save the maximum number of lives, we would like to throw the heaviest people off of the plane first. And oh yeah, there are milli...

 
@JerryCoffin: do you think it would be possible to find out any useful information by filling the CPU cache with pointers to pointers to pointers to...and then dereferencing to hit memory targets?
 
5:20 AM
@stdOrgnlDave Hm....if the data started out sorted, this would basically be building a binary search tree, which would let you do it in O(log N). It might be more efficient than doing a binary search directly on the data, especially if your pointers were smaller than the data items the point at (but if you're dealing with integers, that's not often the case).
With unsorted data, I don't see much you could do with it (unless you did a "sort by proxy" -- had the pointers in sorted order, even though the data wasn't).
@stdOrgnlDave It probably helps in both cases, because inserting/removing from the priority queue only has to look at log(M) elements instead of linearly through M elements. Since a priority queue is still in contiguous memory, however, it avoids the bad cache behavior of pointer-based trees.
 
I was talking about performance information by causing the CPU to iterate through the entire cache just to get an address into memory which will then not be in cache, however applying a binary tree to an ordered list of pointers like that is actually intriguing for completely different reasons
 
@stdOrgnlDave The processor does not need to search the entire cache to see if something is there. That's what associativity does. It limits the # of places that need to be searched.
 
ah well, thanks for illuminating me
@Mysticial it does if the entire cache consists of pointers to pointers to pointers ad infinatum that must be dereferenced
you must remember that you're talking to the man who likes to meta meta program and make his compilers dump core for fun
 
@stdOrgnlDave We're probably talking about two different things. I'm talking about the hardware. For an N-way associative cache, the processor only needs to search N locations. If it isn't in any of those, then it's not in the cache.
 
@Mysticial I'm not sure how that helps. If I have 64k cache and 64,000 pointers to dereference, how will an associative cache help that problem?
sorry, 65536 pointers
must remember, in company of pedants
:-D
 
5:30 AM
We're definitely talking about different things. I'm talking about the behavior of the hardware for a single memory access. I think you're talking about some cache in an algorithm.
 
each dereference is an access...
int *ptr[65536]; ptr[0] = &ptr[1]; ptr[1] = &ptr[2], etc...
 
So if you have 65536 dereferences, that's 65536 memory accesses. Whereas I was talking about just a single access not needing to search the entire cache.
 
yes.
but Jerry brought up the very interesting idea of bothering to sort that pointer chain into a binary search tree
 
Does anyone think it is possible to read files in parallel? It appears to work but some on stackoverflow disagree
 
@LewsTherin read files from the same disk in parallel? read the same file from disk in parallel? with multiple threads? be more specific
 
5:34 AM
@LewsTherin You certainly can, but it won't be any faster than doing it sequentially.
 
Alright, read different/same files in parallel from the same disk
 
Unless the files are on different physical drives.
 
we're talking only about raw read speed? there are no pauses for data processing?
 
@Mysticial ...and may cause extra seeking, in which case it can be a lot slower.
 
@stdOrgnlDave Well there is that.. but both threads do the same data processing
 
5:36 AM
@LewsTherin so what you're saying is, you have file A, you want two threads to read from different parts of it and process the data, and you want to know if that is faster than just using one thread to do the whole file?
 
@JerryCoffin So it is better to just read the files once then
 
@LewsTherin As a rule, yes.
 
@JerryCoffin no, that's only if you're disk bound. if you're CPU bound then having multiple threads working is a wonderful idea (if you have multiple cores to support the work)
 
@stdOrgnlDave Something like that. Or I have file A and B and I want to read both files in parallel.
 
Reminds me though: I once though of a disk drive with one spindle, but two (or even four) separate head units to read/write it, so you could read/write that many streams in parallel.
 
5:38 AM
@JerryCoffin That's nice.. not sure if my hard disk has that
 
@stdOrgnlDave Yes, but you're still usually best off with only one thread doing the reading, and letting the rest do processing.
 
@JerryCoffin modern high-capacity disk drives use multiple platters. I wonder if they make use of this?
 
@LewsTherin I'm pretty sure it doesn't -- as far as I know, it only exists in my imagination.
 
@stdOrgnlDave No, the heads are all attached to the same axle.
 
@JerryCoffin Aww screw you lol
 
5:39 AM
@JerryCoffin I think that depends on the OS and buffering involved - the OS may handle prefetches better (from different parts of the files) if two threads are involved
@Mysticial damn.
honestly though if you're disk-bound, and really need absolute performance, you're going to be abusing cstdio like a red-headed stepchild
 
@stdOrgnlDave They work in cylinders, which are basically all the tracks on all the platters at a given head location. So basically, they put all the data on platter 1, 2, 3, ...N together so a sequential read will leave the head in one position and read across all the platters.
@stdOrgnlDave There may be some OS for which that works, but I've never run into it if there is.
 
@JerryCoffin Yo dawg I heard you liked RAID arrays so I put a RAID array in the hard drives of your RAID array
 
So how do I read from two files in parallel.. poor head
 
@stdOrgnlDave I'm not -- for anywhere close to maximum performance (especially on Windows) you pretty much need thoroughly non-standard code that doesn't go through the C library at all.
 
@LewsTherin Do you need to?
 
5:43 AM
@JerryCoffin you have to go outside stdio to saturate your disk? you're not doing it right then
 
@Mysticial Yeah
 
@LewsTherin Open them both and read them both? Without more info on your goals, there's little else that can be said.
 
@JerryCoffin Yes I totally agree. I find myself needing to use raw-I/O (DMA) to get acceptable performance from HDs.
 
@stdOrgnlDave Funny you should mention that -- some of the enterprise storage systems do pretty much that. A dozen disks in parallel masquerading as a single SCSI device.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah, open the files in separate threads and read through them. Files are massive. If I knew a faster way to read files I wouldn't care lol
 
5:44 AM
@JerryCoffin and windows has it built-in. is called disk striping, yo
 
@stdOrgnlDave It depends on what you're doing, but for some tasks, definitely yes (though certainly not to the extent I did on, say, NT 3.5).
 
@LewsTherin Opening the files on separate threads and read them simultaneously is likely to be counter-productive if they reside on the same mechanical disk.
 
@stdOrgnlDave It has it, but it's doing most of it in software, and it's not all that fast. Some of the enterprise systems are fast enough to do sustained transfers at full SAS bandwidth.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes it's a trade-off. if there's serious CPU work to be done with the data, it'll overcome extraneous seeking.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Damn.. wish I had SSD
 
5:46 AM
@JerryCoffin my point is you made it sound like disk striping is a big fancy trick for enterprise datacenters :-P
 
@stdOrgnlDave Doing it well enough to be worthwhile mostly is! Yes, Windows can do it. So can my motherboard. I've played with both in the past, but don't any more. I'll leave it at that...
 
@stdOrgnlDave I'm assuming it's an I/O bound operation. Otherwise the efforts may be misplaced in getting fast I/O.
 
if you ask me, the best solution would be to read a large chunk of file 1 in thread A, feed it to thread B, while thread A continues to read a large chunk of file 2 and feed it to thread C. rinse and repeat
 
@RMartinhoFernandes There aren't too many I/O tasks that aren't actually I/O bound. Unless it's extremely poorly written code.
 
the larger the consecutive reads you can make, the better performance you will get out of reading multiple files at once
that's about the beginning and the end of it
 
5:51 AM
Using DMA is fun... It really forces to think about everything when you need to do all the alignment manually. :)
 
@stdOrgnlDave I'd mostly agree, with one minor proviso: the reading thread should just deposit output in a queue, and let (some unknown number of threads in) a pool handle it from there. It shouldn't mess with the individual threads that do processing, nor know anything about them beyond the assumption that what it puts in the queue will eventually be used.
 
Guys will talk later.. have to run thanks
 
@Mysticial how are you exposing your SATA controller's DMA? are you interfacing with the driver or some such?
 
@Mysticial You mean you're dealing with a DMA controller that doesn't do scatter/gather? Or do you just mean aligning enough for the scatter/gather unit to deal with it?
@LewsTherin Later.
 
@LewsTherin cya
 
5:53 AM
@stdOrgnlDave In Windows, there's a FILE_FLAG_NO_BUFFERING flag.
 
@Mysticial in cstdio there's a function to set that too
@Mysticial or you can just set the buffer to be an array of your choice...
the second allows for OS prefetching help
 
@stdOrgnlDave But that only stops the library from doing a second layer of buffering on top of what Windows will do. You have to open with FILE_FLAG_NO_BUFFERING to stop windows from caching it.
 
In Linux, it's O_DIRECT.
Both of them are essentially DMA.
 
@JerryCoffin cstdio is only a loose wrapper around windows' functions, it instructs windows not to buffer
 
It's the only way I can prevent either OS from doing some really ridiculous things with buffering.
 
5:56 AM
@stdOrgnlDave Not so. It does buffering of its own, and turning it off only turns off its own buffering.
 
@JerryCoffin so you're telling me the really, really smart guys who write the OS wrapper thought to themselves, "let's write our own buffer on top of the OS buffer, and when people say to turn off the buffer, don't bother to notify the OS"?
 
@JerryCoffin No, I'm implementing some modified/generalized strided access entirely using raw I/Os.
 
@Mysticial Yeah -- though they're not as bad as they used to be. I wrote code (using FILE_FLAG_NO_BUFFERING) to copy files under NT 4 that was ~2-4 times as fast as Windows did on its own. It still works fine, but under Windows 7, it's only marginally faster than using CopyFile.
 
What do you guys think about merging of the core language and the standard library in C++? It's nothing new, but it's been brought back up in my mind by the range-based for and std::begin/std::end.
This merging leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.
 
please define 'core language' in the case of C++
 
5:59 AM
@stdOrgnlDave Pretty much, yeah. The standard library buffers primarily to avoid doing OS calls every time you (for example) read a character. Doesn't try to deal with things like OS caching though.
 
@stdOrgnlDave It's not a definition, but it's anything that can be used without including any headers.
 
@JerryCoffin For me it wasn't just a performance thing. But rather a correctness issue. Apparently Windows tries to buffer the sector directories in all modes except for FILE_FLAG_NO_BUFFERING. The problem is that my files had a combined size of 4 TB. And I only have 12GB of ram.
 
@PaulManta so what you're saying is, making it unnecessary to include .h files leaves a bad taste in your mouth?
 
@stdOrgnlDave Where did I say that?
 
As soon as I touched more than 1 or 2TB of the files, the memory usage would shoot up to like 20GB+ effectively stalling the entire machine until I hard reset.
 
6:00 AM
@Mysticial That does sound like just a bit of a problem...
 
that's what I'm asking, though
if that's what you mean
 
I said that merging core features with library features seems like a bad idea.
 
I don't think so, and here's why: optimization
 
@JerryCoffin So even though the sector directories was 1% of the total file size. That 1% is already more than my ram size.
 
I'd have much liked if begin and end were brought to operator status. You could then overload them the same way you overload new, for example.
 
6:01 AM
.....srsly?
 
I know you can overload std::begin/std::end as well, but that's besides the point.
 
...
why?
 
I can understand what he means -- the compiler has implicit knowledge of parts of the standard library. In reality, however, this is is nothing new. Back in the 16-bit days, compilers generated library calls for things as simple as adding 2 longs (even in C).
 
@JerryCoffin I want to know everything you know.
 
that's my point: merging lets the compiler optimize better
 
6:03 AM
@Mysticial Right. Simply a case they quite apparently never even considered.
 
@JerryCoffin Yes, that's it. There's also operator typeid and std::type_info. Variable length arguments and <cstdarg>.
 
I'm pretty sure you don't want to be able to overload static type info, that's kind of a core part of what C++ is
 
@stdOrgnlDave No one says that the compiler shouldn't be able to do special optimizations for the standard library; it can always assume it's there.
@stdOrgnlDave You're missing the point.
 
please point it out to me then
 
@JerryCoffin Yep :) That's what happens when you try to run HPC on a desktop platform... At least they still provide the tools to get the job done though (albeit mess though). I don't know if Linux has the same problem since I ported the code to Linux after I switched over to raw I/Os.
 
6:06 AM
The core language should work on its own. It should not intertwine with any library headers.
 
@GManNickG You can have it -- I sometimes get depressed about how much space in my brain is wasted on knowledge for which there's no longer any use. How many people really care that the entry point to Applesoft on an Apple II was at address 3D0, or that the 12-bit code to send to a PPU to log somebody off of a Control Data mainframe was 0004?
 
@JerryCoffin say what? :P
 
@JerryCoffin I care, believe it or not. the history of the decisions that led us to where we are nowadays is a very good thing to understand
people who are big on understanding the hardware often don't go deeper, to understanding why the hardware is the way it is
 
@Mysticial Which were you asking about?
 
On the other hand... I'm getting to the point where I can almost recite Agner Fog's latency tables from memory... not good.
@JerryCoffin I was just poking fun at those random things that I couldn't possibly have known.
 
6:08 AM
same with OSes, compilers, etc.
 
@Mysticial Yes, and to go with, I still remember most of the instruction pairing rules for the original Pentium. A lot newer, but still thoroughly obsolete!
 
@JerryCoffin not if you're working in aerospace or industrial programming...
 
@stdOrgnlDave ...which I'm not, nor likely to anytime soon either.
 
@JerryCoffin Oh right, I remember reading about those since it didn't have OOE to do it for you.
 
@JerryCoffin you don't feel that your understanding of those rules adds to your understanding of modern architectures any? I mean, similar rules still apply, even if you don't see or need to worry about them
 
6:15 AM
@stdOrgnlDave I don't think understanding those particular things helps much. The Pentium Pro (and newer) are completely different from the Pentium, and entirely different rules apply. It does help a lot to have a good feel for what works on that general type of architecture. I'm not sure how much advantage I gain from the fact that that basic design originated with the afore-mentioned Control Data mainframes (specifically the CDC 6400).
The first machines on which I did any serious programming happened to be those self-same Control Data mainframes, so I've been dealing with that architecture much longer than most people.
 
@JerryCoffin if I asked you to spit out a shannon-fanno (or slightly more complicated Huffman) codec from memory, can you?
 
-1 because your gravatar is ugly. — The Establishment 1 min ago
lol
 
@stdOrgnlDave No. I know the algorithms well enough I could probably get one working without having to use a reference, but it would be re-implementing the idea, not going from memory.
 
@JerryCoffin that's what I meant, more or less. I didn't mean from rote memory. could you program a basic FM synthesizer?
 
Sometimes that's not bad though -- I (quite accidentally) invented Sunday's variant of Boyer-Moore-Horspool by reading about it, and then implementing what I remembered a year or so later, and doing the same general thing the simplest way I could think of.
@stdOrgnlDave Hm...I suppose I could, but I'm not really sure how FM synths work well enough to be sure.
 
6:21 AM
Can I just say to all of you
 
@SpencerRuport no
 
Thanks for coding in C++ so I don't have to.
You guys are awesome.
 
yeah, yeah, the compilers for whatever language you like that are written in C++ are totally awesome, you're right
 
Indeed.
Life is much better when I can concentrate on the concepts of an algorithm that I'm good at. ;)
 
@JerryCoffin do you not see the fact that you can do things like that is a big advantage? to implement shannon-fanno from concepts, you have to put together smaller concepts. you can synthesize smaller knowledge to solve bigger problems;those I provided are only simple cases
 
6:24 AM
@SpencerRuport Life is generally better when each of us can concentrate on what we're good at.
 
Google is a great reference book but it won't tell you that you can use separate dynamic huffman code trees to encode control sequences that influence each other and increase compression in some cases by 25-50%
 
I hope you're not saying one should memorise all the solutions to all the problems.
 
@JerryCoffin More like concentrate at what we enjoy. You can be good at something you absolutely hate.
 
yeah, I'm good at having nightmares
 
Too true. I'm good at writing html reports. :(
Bane of my existence.
 
6:27 AM
@stdOrgnlDave There are some things (basic algorithms in particular) that I think are very valuable, yes. They have lots of applications and uses. I was talking about things that are pretty much pure trivia. Knowing the architecture of the old Control Data mainframes remains useful. Knowing the code you sent to the PPU to log somebody off, not so much.
 
And conversely, you can suck at the things you enjoy. :) For me, that'd be RTS games. I can't micro-manage for shit.
 
@Mysticial Well, yes. By strong preference, concentrating on something that fits both. I enjoy singing along with music I listen to, but out of consideration for others, only do so when I'm alone! :-)
 
I like archery and theology. I'm good at both. but there's one I should concentrate on more than the other. is it because it makes life better?
 
I have no idea how those Korean players can achieve 300 Op/min in starcraft... I can't even do 60...
 
I'm so bad at that game.
All strategy games really.
 
6:31 AM
@SpencerRuport Yes, I'm pretty sure that's something I wouldn't mention on my resume if I had any choice in the matter...
 
hey does anyone have VC9 handy? can you test-compile a 16 line program for me? I'd like to see its behavior
 
@stdOrgnlDave Yeah, I can do that, I guess.
 
Haha unfortunately my other skills imply that I would be good at them so even if I don't mention it my employers figure it out.
 
@Mysticial Start by getting a black belt in Taekwondo...
 
@JerryCoffin sweet! ideone.com/B4lWw
@SpencerRuport what do you have to program in,by the way?
@JerryCoffin it's going to take a while, it expands the templates about 10,000 times
 
6:35 AM
I prefer to stick to C# and Javascript. Though I'm not unfamiliar with everything from C to LISP.
 
creating about 10,000 new types
 
I've even dabbled around in logic circuit programming a bit.
 
@SpencerRuport I should hope so, considering they're all Turing-complete! that is, excepting C#. pshaw zing
 
@JerryCoffin FPS games I'm actually pretty decent at. There isn't much to manage. You only have at most several weapons to flip though. And my reflexes to sounds and surroundings are pretty good.
 
6:36 AM
@stdOrgnlDave Wut?
 
@stdOrgnlDave Just glancing at it, my immediate reaction was: "this is gonna be ugly". Turns out it didn't take very long at all though -- ICE after only a few seconds.
 
I have to declare this now: if you're a fan of mass effect 3, please play a Vanguard
@JerryCoffin compile in release mode
but that's good to know it still choked VC9 just as bad
 
Sigh. This guys' reading comprehension doesn't bode well for his future questions:
@Zero thanks! And, erm qi::locals was a hyperlink in my answer :) - click it for documentationsehe 4 mins ago
 
@stdOrgnlDave It's working on it now.
 
@Zero For a good sample, I'd refer to the page you linked to in your question, notably here: One More Takesehe 1 min ago
 
6:38 AM
@stdOrgnlDave - What kind of environments do you typically code in?
 
@stdOrgnlDave I'm afraid to get into mass effect or any of the bigger names. I've spent enough time on just Left4Dead.
 
I used to be so addicted to L4D2
 
@Mysticial - Get Portal.
 
I know what things I tend to get addicted to.
@SpencerRuport already have that - got when steam gave it out for free. Haven't tried it yet.
 
@Mysticial if you like action/FPS, play mass effect 3 vanguard. you end up fighting like a superhero, it's crazy and fun
 
6:39 AM
It's a pretty short game. I think I beat it in about 6 hours but I took my time. Other people beat it in 3 the first time around.
 
@Mysticial You get addicted to... digitz! speed!
 
Did anyone play Bastion?
 
@JerryCoffin can you report on memory usage around when it dumps core? actually it may make it all the way with 100, 120 makes it dump on my computer in release though
@SpencerRuport I was trying to remember the name of that game earlier. that's the one with the narrator right?
 
@SpencerRuport That's not that long. I remember Crysis taking a solid 10 hours. Later on I figured how to beat it from start to finish on the hardest difficultly in under 5 hours.
 
@stdOrgnlDave - Yes it is. I had that voice running in my head for days after that.
 
6:42 AM
@stdOrgnlDave I'll try to keep an eye on it. Right now it's using ~150MB, but not climbing terribly fast.
 
@Mysticial - Not at all. But an amazing game either way. Great storyline, decent graphics and a fun concept.
 
@SpencerRuport sweet, I can play it now
 
If that's windows, just start perfmon.exe and save the log? Linux: vmstat -S m 1
@sehe the star button is broken
 
@sehe there's really no need, it takes at least 15-20 minutes to dump core expanding these templates
 
Awesome. I really hope they make a sequel to it.
 
6:44 AM
@SpencerRuport Is it as good as they say? I'm not usually into that kind of game, but agood game in any genre will pull me in
 
@stdOrgnlDave (a) please use the 'reply to this message' button to make it clear what you reply to (b) you can't tell wether memory growth is exponential in the dieing second(s)
 
@sehe not looking for exponential memory growth, I suppose it would be interesting though.
 
@SpencerRuport Though some of the levels in Left4Dead are pretty intense on the hardest difficulty - it really requires a team of 4 good players to beat some of the campaigns on expert realism.
 
@JerryCoffin you know what's interesting to me? if you change that typedef * and add about 10 more *'s on it it dumps core a LOT faster
 
@stdOrgnlDave - Bastion? The gameplay can get a little repetitive but it's got a lot of other appeal to it. The music was amazing and the ending is extremely moving. Very artistic game.
 
6:45 AM
why do you think that is?
 
@stdOrgnlDave Lesson #1 of measurement/observation: be prepared for the unexpected, or you'll never be able to see what happens.
You'd just see what you expect :)
(Lesson #2: calibrate, Lesson #3: verify)
 
@Mysticial - I haven't tried L4D or L4D2 yet. I'm still making my way through all the games I impulse bought during the steam sale. Trying to work up the courage to play Amnesia again.
 
@sehe we're talking about making CL dump core, not terrifically empirical
 
@stdOrgnlDave No, It's entirely academic, of course. After all, the standard specifies when the compiler should ICE in section § 3.1.41.159 under bullet 6
 
good morning
or afternoon, or evening, or night, whatever your timezone is
 
6:48 AM
@SpencerRuport I used to play a lot of games. And then Anime (fortunately) started to pull my attention away. Unlike a game, watching Anime doesn't require your full attention. So I can actually be (somewhat) productive while I'm watching Anime.
 
Perhaps you wanted to see 'scientific' instead of 'empirical' -
'cause, you know, it doesn't get much more empirical than hunting and describing ICE
 
bullet 2, sub-bullet 6 (word 5, letter 3).
 
In case I don't see ya, good afternoon, good evening and good night.
 
@JerryCoffin You got the joke. Is the star button still broken?
 
@SpencerRuport Bye Truman.
 
6:49 AM
indeed.
 
it says it's a stack overflow, but honestly, changing typedef T* type; to typedef T************* type; shouldn't intuitively cause it to overflow the stack exponentially faster. from 25 minutes to 3 seconds
 
@sehe Nope -- seems fine. :-)
 
Cheers! :)
 
Seriously, begging for stars. How lower can you guys get.
 
indeed, it dumps core at only 45mb memory useage
as opposed to about ~400mb with the single star
now what's going on there?
 
6:51 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes Begging for votes? Like the day I came in 5 min. before the repcap reset with 195... on my knees...
 
I wonder why anyone would beg for a large ball of hydrogen burning in space...
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I'm a megastar programmer
who doesn't want to be a megastar?
 
Hehe. I knew you would say that. It's not about stars. It's about fun! I think this was a great response to
13 mins ago, by Mysticial
I know what things I tend to get addicted to.
Make the children goPee! — Scott W 5 hours ago
@ScottW ^ Make their parents dopey!
 
@IntermediateHacker Because if I owned one (and could control the energy it radiates) I'd be insanely rich, and these minor problems with oil prices wouldn't matter.
 
ideone.com/B4lWw now dumps core on GCC too
 
damn. exams are only 3 days away. Between studying and getting scolded by my mom for not studying enough, I hardly get any time to code. :(
 
do you think I should actually submit a bug report on this?
does "I abused the compiler and it died" count as a bug?
 
@sehe Now you're just blatantly/shamelessly fishing for stars. :D
 
@JerryCoffin If you owned one, I'd have to immigrate. The country I'm living in would go bankrupt if people stop buying oil. :)
 
You have the badge already. wth...
 
6:54 AM
@stdOrgnlDave There is semi-reasonable TMP code VC doesn't handle well. A bit late to report bugs about VC9 though.
 
what badge?
 
@Mysticial Nah. I'm advertising fun to the masses :)
 
STAR ALL TEH THINGZ!
 
@JerryCoffin it does the same thing on GCC
 
@Mysticial What Spencer said
 
6:55 AM
@JerryCoffin and they say to submit a fullbug report
@JerryCoffin also does it on VC10, etc.
 
I'm just slightly bitter I only have one gold badge :(
 
@stdOrgnlDave Once VC9 dies, perhaps I'll see how the beta of VC11 does. I doubt it's different, but reporting a bug against it at least stands a little more chance of accomplishing something.
 
I have to say, this experiment has put a damper on my plans to implement a simple VM in template metaprogramming so that I can program in its bytecode and thus achieve meta meta programming
but I mean - do you think anyone will CARE about the bug?
 
@JerryCoffin Nice joke.
 
@stdOrgnlDave Not this particular manifestation, but it's just another symptom of a general problem: heavy template instantiation is expensive, and dies unpredictably.
@RMartinhoFernandes Not a joke. In this case, "little" might underflow the e-308 limit of a double, but at least it's not absolutely guaranteed to be ignored like it would about VC9.
 
6:59 AM
@SpencerRuport Hey, I got to 10k with no gold badges. I felt left out, so I "abused" my 10k flag queue access to badge-whore the Marshall badge.
 

« first day (558 days earlier)      last day (4382 days later) »