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9:00 AM
4. unplug hard drives while they are running... oooh I've triggers soo many SMART errors like that.
 
@GManNickG what do you think of this site demilovato.sf.net _
 
@Mysticial I'm getting more glad I don't have to deal with those issues.
 
The program will be able to recover from 90% of soft-errors.
meaning errors that don't affect flow-control
 
@TaylorBioniks Nice and simple, neat thing emulating the desktop.
 
So if there's data-corruption, or a CPU fault that, that affects only the dataset, the fault-tolerance will catch it, fix it, log it, and go on.
 
9:02 AM
@GManNickG t̛hanks was tryiŋ to be GNOME 3
 
speaking of which... hard drive prices better drop down within another 2 months - of I'm gonna run out dedicate space for me Anime... and I'll have to put them into my swap/test drives...
 
oops
 
this is funny just saw it
 
@Mysticial: Have you ever tested on LynxOS? It should remove much of the overhead the OS introduces (if that's noticeable at all).
 
@GManNickG overhead for what?
 
9:10 AM
@Mysticial Switching threads, for example.
 
@Mysticial @CatPlusPlus @GManNickG anyone got a better name for the /var dir in my system?
 
@GManNickG Threading overhead is actually almost zero on such large sizes. Given enough memory (96 GB is more than enough), you can thread at a ridiculously high level. Load balance is actually a bigger problem.
 
Oh, well then nevermind. :)
@TaylorBioniks Nope, sorry.
 
the biggest bottleneck is actually just plain memory bandwidth...
 
I was thinking /Variable /Run or /RunTime I don't know any idea
 
9:13 AM
disk bandwidth, you can increase by cramming more hard drives.
memory bandwidth sucks... as it bottlenecks everything and you can't easily increase it.
 
@Mysticial Yeah, it's a lame problem to run into. :(
How is CPU utilization more than 100%? :o (Just ran y-cruncher on my machine.)
 
Yeah, I have a 60,000 line solution to it... it'll be in the next release of program - which is at least months away... lol
 
@Mysticial How the hell haha.
 
*i.e. a new multiplication algorithm... lol - designed specifically to minimize memory bandwidth usage...
 
Oh, thats freakin cool.
 
9:22 AM
basically trading memory bandwidth for computation...
it was mostly a "fun" thing that got really huge very quickly.
 
Yea, I remember the old advise to use lookup-tables for things, then the advise reversed and said prefer not to do that when the computations are relatively cheap.
 
that's one of the problems of bottom-up programming. it can get really big very quickly
 
sbi
Here, have some brain bleach.
 
...the hell.
 
sbi
1 message moved to bin
@GManNickG Better? :)
 
9:29 AM
Ah. :)
 
sbi
One of my sons came home from school the other day and asked me to dial *#06# (no, that's not an expletive) on my mobile phone. I was startled. Has anyone known this?
 
Are you suggesting I try it now?
 
sbi
@GManNickG It spits back your phone's IMEI.
 
Huh. How did he figure that out?
 
sbi
Apparently, some police representative was visiting his class, and talked about crime prevention. He told them that, given this number, the police would be able to track their phone, should it ever be stolen.
 
9:32 AM
Didn't work for me. :O
 
sbi
@GManNickG Oh?
Maybe it's a European thing?
 
Doesn't seem like it should be, the I is for International. wikihow.com/Find-the-IMEI-Number-on-a-Mobile-Phone
Now I feel lame and out of the cool circle. :(
 
sbi
There's other ways to get at my phones IMEI. (Android lists it somewhere under settings.)
 
I have a Droid, so it probably just keeps it there.
 
sbi
@GManNickG If you have an Android phone, too, shouldn't it work the same as for me?
 
9:37 AM
Well different make's, same concept. Yours might have decided to do both, mine not, but perhaps both keep it in a menu as a Droid thing.
 
sbi
How ironic.
 
Hm wait a minute, if you're here that means it must be my bedtime...indeed!
 
sbi
:)
 
:) Night all.
 
sbi
Sleep well!
 
9:54 AM
g'day
 
sbi
10:05 AM
Public inheritance models an IS-A relationship, but physics is a science, not a student. — sbi 13 secs ago
 
Just saw it.
Why doesn't he put the student name, ID and courses in the base class student?
 
@sbi ta for having the discussion with LuchianGrigore
 
sbi
@je4d Have I missed something? Is he known for doing bad things?
 
@sbi no, you just said what needed to be before I even got there :)
I don't think my answer there is actually going to do what he wants, I think he's trying to clone a whole interlinked data structure whenever you copy one node in it
 
sbi
@je4d I was wondering about him. TBH, I suspected the downvote to be his from the beginning, because of him posting almost exactly the same code as you did — only a second after you did. And then accusing your code to be wrong, even though he had just posted almost exactly the same code, certainly seems very suspicious.
 
10:23 AM
what is the difference between
for(it;it!=(*it_set)->members.end();++it)
and
for(it;it!=(*it_set)->members.end();it++)?
 
The first one uses prefix-increment, the last one uses postfix-increment.
 
@coolbartek if it has conventional semantics for preincrement / postincrement, then there's no semantic difference
 
right, but am i skipping the beginning of the lists for the pre increment?
 
@coolbartek no
 
Prefix-increment is usually (slightly) more performant and recommended by many people, but you should choose what you like the most.
 
10:25 AM
the post-increment may be less efficient as if it's overloaded, it'll probably create a temporary copy. and of course since both can be overloaded they could do different things entirely
 
sbi
@coolbartek If it is a built-in type (pointer), or a thin wrapper around a built-in type (std::vector iterator), the compiler will almost certainly optimize away any difference. If it's a user-defined type, it might not be able to do that.
 
i keep getting an error saying that the list iterator is not incrementable
 
sbi
@coolbartek The difference between prefix and postfix increment is that ++i yields the value after the incrementation, whereas i++ yields the value before the incrementation (requiring to make a copy of the value). Since for never evaluates the result of this, it's irrelevant.
@coolbartek What's the declaration of "the list", and how did you obtain it?
 
list<Set*>::iterator it_set = Ls.begin();
for(it_set;it_set!=Ls.end();++it)
 
sbi
@coolbartek I think this should compile. Can you post a minimal program (<10 lines, preferably on ideone.com) that exhibits your problem?
 
10:30 AM
ill try
 
sbi
@coolbartek If you cannot reproduce the issue there, the the problem is somewhere in the differences between the code you entered there and the code that gives you the compiler error.
 
the program starts fine, but the error jumps at the second time in the for loop
and i only have one element in the list
it doesn't compile there, i didn't want to add to many classes
 
sbi
@coolbartek Waitaminute. You meant you have a runtime error??
 
yup
but i think i found the problem
the Ls begin and Ls end are different, so i guess i have put a second element somewhere
no, i still can't se the problem
 
sbi
Not only doesn't the code compile, but it also doesn't make sense. You iterator over a list<Set*>, and then access the iterator as if it points to a list<Member*>, rather than a Set*.
Also, you deal with dynamically allocated objects in naked pointers stored in STL containers. I would wonder if you could this to run without bugs.
 
10:46 AM
one question
 
And without memory leaks when an exception gets thrown!
 
what does list.end() return?
last element or the one after that?
 
> Returns an iterator to the element following the last element of the container. This element acts as a placeholder, attempting to access it results in undefined behavior. — Extremely useful website
 
An iterator to one past end.
Because iterator ranges are [start,end).
 
alright ill try debugging some more
thanks for the help though
 
10:48 AM
Finally, 2k rep :-)
 
11:05 AM
1
Q: More succinct way to use shims in variadic templates?

Matthieu M.C++ templates are generally assimilated to creators of bloat, and the Shim idea deals with exactly that: making the template just a thin wrapper over a regular function. It's a really great way to cut down on the bloat. For example, let's use a simple shim: // // Shim interface // struct Interf...

interesting question
 
what is shim?
 
It's a kind of a knife.
 
In computer programming, a shim (from shim) or shiv is a small library that transparently intercepts an API and changes the parameters passed, handles the operation itself, or redirects the operation elsewhere. Shims typically come about when the behavior of an API changes, thereby causing compatibility issues for older applications which still rely on the older functionality. In such cases, the older API can still be supported by a thin compatibility layer on top of the newer code. Shims can also be used for running programs on different software platforms than they were developed for....
@CatPlusPlus and you're a kind of cat :P
 
> a shim (from shim) or shiv
Haha, called it.
Meh, I have things to do in Java.
For tomorrow.
I want more weekend.
 
mawnin
 
11:20 AM
@DeadMG meowing
 
11:47 AM
What's the cure for procrastination?
3
 
Reading that entire synopsis would probably take 59 seconds.
 
@StackedCrooked what was the link to check out everything I needed to run your test case again?
 
12:03 PM
@jalf Ok, let me find it.
@jalf svn co https://tetris-challenge.googlecode.com/svn/branches/jalf-stm And then: cd 3rdParty && sh get-dikustm.sh to get the STM library.
You can run the rebuild-debug to build it.
The checkout is a bit lengthy because it includes boost :)
I haven't compiled for ages on Windows, so that build is likely totally broken.
And the shortcut to execute the STM test is:
Build/Debug/Darwin/x86_64/lib/Tetris/testing/Debug/Darwin/x86_64/bin/TetrisTest --gtest_filter=STMTest.CoordinatedChanges
Path is a bit messed up there :/
@Potatoswatter Severe punishment.
 
12:19 PM
@StackedCrooked Well, if I get fired, I can't procrastinate any more.
 
A clever boss will threaten to fire you and try to exploit the fears :p
Actually I read a few books about procrastination.
 
@Potatoswatter You can't? Amateur. I procrastinate a lot more than just my work
 
@sehe Hah. It doesn't help that I wasn't actively looking for a job when I got hired to this project.
 
@StackedCrooked and you came to what conclusion?
 
12:25 PM
@TonyTheLion Reading books can be procrastination too
 
@TonyTheLion They weren't all that helpful.
 
@sehe so you're reading about procrastination because it allows you to procrastinate further on those things you were already procrastinating about?
 
@TonyTheLion Not me :) It's on my todo list, though
 
^ This one was ok.
It teaches you some psychology tricks.
 
12:29 PM
I don't need to read books on procrastination, I merely need to decide to stop being lazy.
or just a good ass kicking from someone :P
 
@TonyTheLion Yeah right :p
Just kidding. I just know that I'm a really bad case myself.
 
My entire life is a thunk
 
@StackedCrooked I do know how you feel, I mean, reddit is just extremely tempting, tvtropes is just addictive
:P
 
@StackedCrooked thanks
 
@jalf Just tested the instructions myself with a fresh checkout. Should work as advertised :)
 
12:43 PM
@StackedCrooked LOL @ encouraging people to read a second (updated) book about procrastination! Also that the print book is attempting to solve technological procrastination.
 
12:57 PM
Hello everyone, just one question that I need to copy/paste over to here....
Markus Persson:

People who want games to emulate other art forms are missing the point so bad I just want to smack them across the face with a shovel.
What does that mean? Thank you in advance.
 
what does "emulate" mean?
 
@TonyTheLion To create in a virtual way of things.
 
emulate |ˈemyəˌlāt| verb
match or surpass (a person or achievement), typically by imitation
 
That said, I do know that gaming magazines always mention how "Blah Blah Blah Game can emulate Blah Blah Blah..."
 
@tom_mai78101 no, just look here at the first definition: mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/emulate
@tom_mai78101 that's another definition of "emulate"
 
1:01 PM
Oh.
Coming from the gaming world, my instincts tell me the second definition is better. :/
 
can one rename his account on SO/SE?
 
> People want games to "excel" other art forms are missing the point...
 
@tom_mai78101 what's wrong with that?
 
> People want games to "imitate" other art forms are missing the point...
To be honest, it's like a double entendre sentence.
 
@tom_mai78101 I would say in this sentence, the "excel" definition fits better
@tom_mai78101 could be
 
1:04 PM
I don't know. Twitter feeds are like double entendres.
 
lol
are .lib files in Windows always statically linked?
 
@bamboon That's impossible.
 
@TonyTheLion Yes.
 
Ok, leaving. Nice talking to you, King Simba, for thy wisdom shalt be brought forth to Twitter.
 
but that doesn't necessarily mean the actual code is statically linked
 
1:14 PM
@DeadMG ah ok
@DeadMG oh, I thought that was the entire point
 
not necessarily
they also serve a purpose as import libraries
 
@tom_mai78101 funny, didn't know that
 
right
 
it's some MSVC linker internal detail thing that makes it easier for them to import and export DLLs and makes calling them faster
you static link the lib, and then dynamically link the DLL
 
What's your thoughts on the C++ FQA
anything sensible in it?
 
1:26 PM
no
 
Not much. It's mainly incoherent ranting, which kind of pollutes it even when its complaints are actually valid
 
hmmm
pathfind em all, let God sort em out?
 
Good morning!
 
for N units
 
@jalf there's this MinGW-w64 dev who's a C whore, we keep getting into discussions about how he thinks C is better and C++ is hiding all the bugs
 
1:36 PM
maybe I should just pathfind N paths every frame to the goal?
 
don't use C++ for the sake of C++, keep it simple
These are the arguments I am confronted with
makes me wanna cry
 
C simple? bwahahaha
all you have to do is show a little string or resource handling code, for example
or some containers
and it'll become inherently obvious that C is not the simple approach
 
Don't worry, I agree. He thinks macros are C's templates
 
except for the whole "horrifically unsafe" thing
 
he calls that "convenience" that does not weigh up to the "added complication"
 
1:39 PM
well, he's a moron
the convenience of use is O(N) - everybody who uses the container is convenienced
 
<rubenvb>	or redoing string/resource handling code all over the place
<****>	... as I've said, don't use C++ for the sake of C++ when you don't even need anything remotely C++
 
on the other hand, the complication of creation is O(1) - only the author has to deal with it
so it's easy to see that the benefits of templates outweigh the bad sides
 
lol
 
he's too busy labelling himself as anti-C++ and pro-C to actually sit down and consider it rationally
so I would just ignore him
 
yeah
 
1:41 PM
it's frustrating to have to deal with people like that, but I doubt you can change his views with any logical argument
 
I should learn to ignore people better
He's very embedded-minded
which is an awful C temple unfortunately
 
heh
embedded is more like a C shack- I doubt that it comprises anywhere near a significant segment of the code written
hmm
why on earth does GLM's vector length function return an integer?
 
@DeadMG same as Qt's
then they can return -1 for a failure of sorts
or so they say
 
all vectors have a length
 
that's what I found when digging it up
also has to do with weird loop constructs
comparing to -1
I'm not joking
 
1:52 PM
well, it's really going to screw up a whole bunch of my logic
guess I'mma write my own length function
 
std::length(T)
like std::begin and std::end
 
no
 
I hate the fact that size and length are the same for std::string
they should've gotten utf8 in their heads and made string::length return the length in unicode characters
as in, the amount of char32_t's needed to store the whole string.
 
It's all just a failed attempt to pander to the Java crowd.
 
@rubenvb No.
 
1:58 PM
@DeadMG and you're a naysayer today why?
 
length() is size() before std::string was made a proper container.
that's the reason for it's whole bad interface
 
I'm not talking about historic reasons.
 
it's a pre-Standard string class with a Standard container's interface on top
well, you can't go changing the meaning of the code after it's been written
 
I'm against the current C++ library design for the most part.
 
me too
 
1:59 PM
I would like to change it
 
but things would not be better if they randomly started changing the meaning of individual member functions
all that would happen is that you'd break 9999999 programs and nobody would ever, ever code C++ ever again
 
true enough, unfortunately
 
FWIW, it's a good thing that string isn't (really) parameterized on the encoding.
 
IMO, it should be an unspecified Unicode encoding
 
What's needed is a better interface to encodings than codecvt.
 
2:00 PM
so on Windows, UTF-16 and on Unix UTF-8 and such
 
@Potatoswatter I don't think so. You have std:vector<char> for that.
@DeadMG interop nightmare
 
why?
converting between UTFs is lossless and relatively easy
 
@DeadMG but expensive
 
not really
how do you think current programs which run on both Unix and Windows handle Unicode?
 
@rubenvb Encodings shouldn't necessarily be compile time constants.
 
2:01 PM
they have one single Unicode format, which is then just-in-time converted to the other one as needed for OS functions
usually UTF8 for ease of serialization and such
 
@Potatoswatter but there's no C++ lib that has all the necessary codecvt, nor a standard naming for them
 
@rubenvb Oh yeah, and then std::string would be pretty much useless on platforms where utf16 is the preferred encoding... What a wonderful idea ;) What encoding it uses internally is an implementation detail. What's important is that the standard offers ways to serialize to any given (Unicode) encoding (which it doesn't)
 
@rubenvb There is a standard naming for them. Eg en_US-UTF8.
 
@Potatoswatter nope, don't work on MSVC vs GCC or libc++
 
Support is poor, but by using named facets you're supposed to be able to access whatever the OS provides.
 
2:02 PM
at least the locale naming
I'd guess the codecvt naming is the same
 
Yeah, it's one master name for the locale and you can individually construct any facet.
 
well, the naming is different accross implementors
 
No, it's ISO standardized.
 
Show me.
 
I'm doing my income tax and I'm supposed to be making a website. I don't know if the Standard requires that the naming convention eg en_US-UTF8 be followed, but that convention is a formal standard.
 
2:06 PM
on Unix maybe
 
man
pathfinding in free space is (a bit) of a bitch
 
The C standard has only two well-defined locales: the C locale, and "" which is the user's default locale
 
@CheersandhthAlf Exactly what I thought too.
 
GNU g++ does not even have that up at the C++ level, with the version I have
 
2:07 PM
Windows' English is English_United States.1252
 
Yeah.
So C++'s builtin facilities suck.
by underspecification
 
Everything is written longhand except they didn't say what 1252 is… essentially minimizing any accidental brush with standardization
 
1252 is a local codepage
 
2:10 PM
Does Windows not also accept Unix-style locale names?
 
That's bizarre, they only defined a small subset of countries. And does "codepage" include multibyte encodings?
 
it's seperate
So don't think C++ locale support is useful.
 
… hmm, I really need to finish my work. Thanks for the enlightenment, but I'd still dispute that no library includes all the encodings you'd need… there's just been insufficient standardization
 
@Potatoswatter codepage 65001 is UTF-8
there are also the asian codepages
 
2:14 PM
Yeah, ok, there's Apache libstdcxx which had a bunch of locale stuff. But more often than not, you need stuff like Qt (which is equally broken btw) or Poco or Boost.
 
Haha, I like how their definition of "locale-independent" means "dependent on the current locale." Where do they find these people? Anyway, serious guys, I really can't be chatting :(
 
WORK @Potatoswatter. Stop chatting and WORK.
*plink*
 
3:03 PM
implementing pathfinding for my game
= sitting staring at the screen unsure what to write
 
I know this is a C++ room but could I ask a question regarding tar?
 
@TheArchitect You can ask any question other than "can I ask this" type questions
 
@Pubby And C, and Java, and PHP questions :P. Although the first might be OK in the right context.
 
ok, ty...the PHP people were mean to me lol
hello...I'm using the android command line via terminal ide...I'm trying to unzip a zip file. I use "tar -zxvf myfile.zip" and I get "invalid gzip magic"
 
tar doesn't work on zips
you need unzip
 
3:11 PM
ah kk
 
but I don't think Android has that by default
 
thank you, I can unzip it elsewhere, I'm trying to force myself to use the command line as much as possible so wanted to make sure I understood what I was doing
 
@rubenvb C is no better here than PHP or Java.
 
it has busybox...it's terminal ide...awesome command line interface for android with java and C development tools
yep it has unzip in busybox, thanks bro! :-)
 
@TheArchitect ok. Glad I could help.
Now for the transfer of funds...
 
3:14 PM
heh ;-)
 
Would you like to pay via Paypal or wire transfer?
Hey, I didn't chase you away yet. :(
 
Hi folks
I just got this FB message:
Hello Sir!!Im ram from india!!!I have a doubt regarding my career.I have been selected in two companies in two different dept

in testing
and in the ITIS.

I cant decide which job to take.

I need answers for the following:

1)which department have more scope??

2)which makes me improve in my career??

3) which helps me move on to development soon??

Please reply me sir. as a piece of advice from a pro like you make help me a lot
(What) should I reply?
 
what's ITIS?
Information Technology Investigation Service?
 
3:31 PM
I don't have the foggiest idea. I do not know this guy. But a lot of Indians have requested FB friendship, and I just grant it. I dunno, I'm very popular in India?
I think, maybe it's all Prasoon's fault!
Yes!
 
lol
 
but i think ITIS must mean Info Tech Internal Services, like, IT department
the folks you call when something doesn't work
when i worked they always wanted to give me better screen and everything. it didn't help to quarrel with them, no matter which firm, they were always super-friendly. it still gets to me
 
lol, South-Asian english. I've had a lot of experience with that.
Just give some obscure answer in which you point out the pros and cons of both choices (whatever they are), and he/she will be satisfied.
 
3:47 PM
Unsolicited contact? Ignore
if you don’t you’ll be deluged by similar requests … same reason governments don’t give in to terrorists … or rather, why they shouldn’t
 
@CheersandhthAlf nah, I get a lot of them too. It's more to do with the population density in India. You're bound to get a friend request from at least a couple of people in a country of more than 1.2 billion.
 
ok, so, new idea
nodes of octree == nodes of pathfinding algorithm
that couldn't possibly go wrong
 
isn't octree sort of overlapping areas?
 
each node's space is quite distinct
 
3:53 PM
the problem is connection
I can easily retrieve a bunch of node boundaries from the octree, but I need to connect them all up to make a directed graph
 
In a macro what does ## this mean? in this context: image.variable##isLinked()?
 
token concatenation
#define macro(var) image.var##isLinked()
macro(ohai) // expands to image.ohaiIsLinked()
 

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