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12:00 AM
My Algorithms and Complexity teacher was once a student of Tony Hoare.
My Hoare number is 2!
 
(gdb) p this
$1 = (const annex::optional<int> * const) 0x10
 
Am I seeing a pointer to address 0x10?
 
You are!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Interesting, I should probably add a suitable offset to the pointer, to make it aligned?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Isn't it implementation defined?
 
12:05 AM
@LucDanton I think you're is expected to use memory that's suitably aligned for your type.
 
Yeah, I'm using typename std::aligned_storage<std::alignment_of<T>::value>::type.
 
Argh, botched by Markdown. It's §5.2.10/7.
 
Unspecified then.
Good enough for me (but I don't want to do it again).
Aaaaand moving the 'one ahead' cached value out of the iterator to in_channel is problematic on the last pass of the iterator.
 
The iteration that finds the channel closed?
 
Well, no, before that.
Looping and finding the channel closed is out of step by one.
Hence why I need to cache.
It goes like this
it != end; *it; ++it; it != end; *it; ++it; it != end
When the last comparison return false the channel is already closed.
 
12:12 AM
No offense, but I find your style of placing the return types on a line by itself hard to read :(
 
I like it a lot :(
template<typename Functor, typename ...Args>
auto forward_bind(Functor&& functor, Args&&... args)
-> forward_bind_expression<typename std::decay<Functor>::type, Args&&...>;
You want that on one line?
I'm consistent.
So I have two things to reconcile.
Whenever ++it happens, in->pop() is attempted and if it succeeds the element is stored somewhere for the next dereference to find it.
If it fails, then the iterator become singular to fail the next comparison to the end; here I'm setting in to nullptr.
iterator it = ...; auto copy = it; *copy; must succeed if *it is valid before the copy.
Solution: do not set in to 0 but use another sentinel?
That makes the size of an iterator one pointer + one bool, still moveable.
 
I wouldn't mind it.
 
Still better than istream_iterator that stores a whole T.
 
12:28 AM
Ok, I'm off for the day. Good night.
 
Bye.
 
12:41 AM
Ping: Pong
 
 
1 hour later…
2:03 AM
I have netbeans + minGW on Win7, should I download the Linux source of a software or windows ?
I am assuming the linux, right ?
 
It hasn't been usual IME to have separate sources for this.
Are you sure this isn't about e.g. line endings?
 
nope
 
Then you should refer to the documentation. MinGW usually requires special support.
Although it's highly unlikely that something designed for MSVC will be supported for MinGW.
 
alright thanks heaps.
I will have a look at MinGW documentation.
 
No, the documentation of the project.
MinGW is usually considered a 'special' platform, separate from Linux and Windows.
 
2:09 AM
I see.
so if there wasn't one maybe I should go back to cygwin ?
 
I don't know.
 
alright thanks for the help.
 
2:46 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes Finally managed to make the sieve test a 'proper' test (also it passes). Lots of debugging was involved but getting a lot of satisfaction!
 
3:15 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes I added an optional<T> pop_nothrow(); member to celebrate.
@RMartinhoFernandes And now I understand why you said the names inside make_shared were wrong. Forgot I made the in/out switch actually.
 
 
3 hours later…
6:38 AM
if you get segmentation faults in /bin/sh, you're doing something seriously wrong
 
1
Q: Why were concepts (generic programming) conceived when we already had classes and interfaces?

n2liquidI understand that STL concepts had to exist, and that it would be silly to call them "classes" or "interfaces" when in fact they're only documented (human) concepts and couldn't be translated into C++ code at the time, but when given the opportunity to extend the language to accomodate concepts, ...

Not constructive?
A first answer already underlines some differences between concepts and interfaces.
 
7:12 AM
I really don't get the reason why 'programmers' was created and why so many questions are migrated to it :(
 
Depending on the tags SO does get unloaded with a lot of 'fix my code' or 'I never read a book' questions.
So Programmers becomes a haven for the more relaxed, open-ended questions so that they don't drown in the flood of crap?
But I'm not familiar with the SO tags and the history of SO at all.
 
Paavo Helde posted in comp.lang.c++:
"Large program, good C++ skills: use C++.
Small program, bad C++ skills: use C.
Large program, bad C++ skills: screwed both ways, use C++ to get a slow
and working program.
Small program, good C++ skills: doesn't matter, use C++ for convenience."
 
Signal-to-noise of c.l.c++ went quite flat for me with the giant trolls of the past few months :( How is it around now?
 
seems okay. it helps to killfile "paul".
and some others
:-)
 
7:40 AM
@FredOverflow i think the quint-essential love operator usage goes like while( i<3u ) ...
4
and apropos, it's many months since last anyone mentioned the "goes to" operator, for( unsigned i = max; i --> 0; ) ...
 
that was mentioned by @Fred
 
1
Q: Genericity, Generics, Generic Programming

foobarThe above terms sound very similar. How are they related? Are some of them synonyms? Are they completely distinct?

wow, quite a few downvotes...
 
I'm actually surprised you have upvotes
you show in no way what your current interpretation of the terms is and what you find unclear or what you're not sure of. Shows no research effort at all imho
 
8:08 AM
@KillianDS because SO is ruled by the meta clique, who get their kicks from pretending that they're in charge and defining rules for everyone to follow, instead of just answering some bloody questions
now that they can't play CW police any more, they had to find something else to do
 
seems you find it as ridiculous as I do :D
 
most people in this room find it rediculous
 
8:23 AM
WTF, I post an answer to a question on SO and they change it into a comment???!!!
 
link?
 
how does MS make their websites run so badly?
 
I think you'd need to ask MS for that
 
@jalf The ScriptFree version of the MSDN docs seem to work well to me
 
Hi!
 
8:37 AM
Hello.
 
What's up ?
 
1
A: What is the difference between writing to a file and a mapped memory?

Tony The TigerA memory mapped file is actually partially or wholly mapped in memory (RAM), whereas a file you write to would be written to memory and then flushed to disk. A memory mapped file is taken from disk and placed into memory explicitly for reading and/or writing. It stays there until you unmap it. ...

am I talking out of my ass here, or does my answer make some sort of sense?
 
@Insilico it's winqual.microsoft.com thats' driving me nuts now
 
@kbok Ok, how is that question supposed to work? What am I supposed to answer?
 
@kbok the sky
 
8:39 AM
Honest, it always confuses me.
 
"whats up" generally means "how are you doing?"
just another way of asking
@jalf loads pretty fast for me
 
I always took the literal meaning to be "What's going on".
 
@RMartinhoFernandes This is what people call "smalltalk", and I'm not talking about an old programming language here.
 
@TonyTheTiger yeah, the front page does. I'm trying to get it to show me collected crash reports for our software, and it's always slooow, but now I'm just getting "please try again later" messages
 
@jalf oh I see
 
I smell badgewhores
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Close to 20k but only ~400 from C++? I'm confus.
 
@LucDanton I started learning C++ last April.
I was active on other tags before that.
 
I find that I have no sense of scale when it comes to rep.
 
8:45 AM
Show-off!
:P
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah, but not in C++, so it's nothing you can brag about here!
 
@TonyTheTiger "A memory mapped file is taken from disk and placed into memory explicitly for reading and/or writing. It stays there until you unmap it." I think this is a bit misleading. (Or I misunderstand something)
It gives the impression the data is copied, which is not necessarily true, is it?
 
Depends on OS and/or QoI I think.
Biggest win may be not switching to kernel mode, wouldn't it?
Which may or may not apply depending on OS, filesystem, etc.
 
@LucDanton I'm not sure whether requiring an app to be run in ring 0 can be considered a "win".
 
@kbok Fixed that :)
 
8:53 AM
lowl
 
@RMartinhoFernandes hmmmm, valid point
haven't really worked with memory mapped files, so if you think it is wrong, pls edit
or even better, if you KNOW it's wrong, edit it
 
sbi
@kbok Does "lowl" stand for "laughing out wee loud" or "laughing owl"?
 
@sbi I much prefer "laughing owl".
 
Or "laughing openly with ladies" maybe ?
 
9:00 AM
ugh C and macros
so fugly :(
 
@TonyTheTiger Removed.
 
damn it, I was up for some C bashing :P
 
sbi
Aug 5 at 20:30, by sbi
Note that drive-by linking (showing up just to dump a link to your question and not to participate in discussions) is frowned upon here. In fact, regulars might flag such messages as offensive or downvote the question.
 
oh I thought you were talking to me there for a second, lol
 
@sbi To be fair, I've seen @foobar talking with people around here.
 
9:02 AM
@sbi - if it's just a link it should be a comment and I might well flag it "not an answer" rather than offensive or down voting. meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/103578/…
 
Yes, he's not question dumper, I talked with him several times.
 
@awoodland You can't flag "not an answer" on the chat. And you can't flag "not an answer" on questions either :)
 
sbi
@RMartinho & @kbok: That might well be. Nevertheless, that was pure drive-by linking. He showed up, dropped the link, and disappeared again, not responding to those who responded to his message.
@awoodland I have no idea what you're talking about.
 
@sbi true.
 
@sbi - whoops wrong end of stick on that one, sorry for noise.
 
9:18 AM
> A computer without COBOL and Fortran is like a piece of chocolate cake without ketchup and mustard.
2
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Ketchup and mustard on the same cake?! An abomination.
 
is there something like memcpy in D?
 
I think D can use the C standard library.
 
9:38 AM
Mustard is a condiment made from the seeds of a mustard plant (white or yellow mustard, Sinapis hirta; brown or Indian mustard, Brassica juncea; or black mustard, Brassica nigra). The whole, ground, cracked, or bruised mustard seeds are mixed with water, salt, lemon juice or other liquids, and sometimes other flavorings and spices, to create a paste or sauce ranging in color from bright yellow to dark brown. Mustard often has a sharp, pungent flavor, as mixing the ground seed with cold liquid allows the enzyme myrosinase which it contains to act on glucosinolates also present to make iso...
 
0
Q: Aligning to cache line and knowing the cache line size

MetallicPriestTo prevent false sharing, I want to align each element of an array to a cache line. So first I need to know the size of a cache line, so I assign each element that amount of bytes. Secondly I want the start of the array to be aligned to a cache line. I am using Linux and 8-core x86 platform. Fi...

for some reason, I don't think that's necessarily a good idea, or is it?
I mean, cache line sizes will different on different architectures, no?
 
It is a good idea if the goal is to prevent false sharing.
 
But from my experience with that user, I'm not even gonna consider the question.
@TonyTheTiger Yeah, the size will be different. I think the question is about how to determine that size.
 
9:47 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes oh, is he a pain?
 
Aug 30 at 9:02, by R. Martinho Fernandes
In the past day or two he has repeatedly asked questions similar to "I don't need to synchronize for this, do I?" Everyone tells him "Yes, you need." So he rephrases his question and asks again.
I think he knows enough to be dangerous, but not more.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes oh I see, he obviously doesn't understand or he's trolling
0
Q: boost::circular_buffer increment begin pointer without use push_back()

LeviathanI just want to increment pointer of boost::circular_buffer container without use of push_back() method. I saw an increment() method but it is in private section. I need write directly to circular buffer, because it is faster than I prepare the data and insert to buffer using push_back(). This is...

seems to be premature optimization to me
how does OP know it's slow?
 
@TonyTheTiger Maybe he knows copy constructing the object is slow (as it is his own object as far as i can see)
 
10:07 AM
oh k
 
10:18 AM
what is the simplest and easiest to use yet flexible c graphics library? I need it as a back-end for my c++ library
 
2
Q: How do I chain stdout in one child process to stdin in another child in C?

buggritallI've been messing around in C trying to figure out how to do this. Let's say I have my main program, the parent process. The parent creates three child processes, each of which will eventually run programs (but that's not important right now). What I'd like to do is make it so that the first chil...

 
@IntermediateHacker What kind of graphics? Rendering, drawing, image processing, ...?
 
just normal 2d graphics. Image blitting and shapes / text rendering
but should be fast
and easy. i don't want to spend days learning the api
 
@IntermediateHacker you're asking a lot there :P
and it must be in C?
 
not necessarily , can be in c++
but u know, since most lightweight graphics libraries are in c, I thought i would get better answers
 
10:25 AM
I personally like SFML
 
@KillianDS i have used it, but for some reason, it never works for me. Firstly , the images often lose scope and only a white rectangle shows up
Secondly , it has a LOT of dlls. Hell with linking
Thirdly I can't get it to control its FPS
 
C libraries suck more often than not.
 
@CatPlusPlus Yeah, but they are smaller.
Easier to understand in a day or two
 
:D
anyway, know any good ones?
 
10:36 AM
@IntermediateHacker I did not do much actual image processing with it, but I compile it myself and create static libraries and I'm quite sure you can edit the FPS (at least in version 2)
 
@KillianDS ok , thanks. I am giving it a try. what is the best version by the way? and does it compile on minGw
 
I use version 2 (it's not officially released yet), the documentation is a bit sparse but it's quite clear. I think it should compile with mingw, it supports windows, mac and linux and I think it uses OpenGL as renderer for graphics. However, I must say I mostly use the windows part of it so I can't guarantee the graphics library is as good as that one.
 
@KillianDS I use windows too , so no problem
thanks. :_
:)
 
I mean the windows library inside SFML to create windows (in any system), it's one of the few out there that can create OpenGL3+ contexts (at least when I was looking for it).
but gtg, meeting
 
10:52 AM
0
Q: How to detect circular calls?

amsoI've been looking for causes for deadlocks and strategies/tools to avoid and detect them. Another potential cause for deadlocks is to have blocking functions calling other blocking functions in a circular way, so that eventually a call never returns. Sometimes this is hard to discover, speciall...

Per OP C++ is scarcely covered on SO
meh
 
Anyone else noticed this?
20
Q: How does the User Card popup work?

Geoff DalgasWe are experimenting with enhanced user card mouseover popups and have enabled them network wide. You can tell which users will trigger the popup because they have a 3-D drop shadowy look to their gravatar: Hover your mouse over the gravatar and wait for the result. Note that the user card mou...

@TonyTheTiger @sbi's comment is spot on.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes yes indeed
 
Als
Ola
 
Als
@TonyTheTiger: active today in the SO main i see
uh hu and while i was saying that, some dick downvoted me on this..
 
11:05 AM
yes, I'm trying to improve my skills by answering some SO questions :)
 
Als
3
A: Sleep a thread for an infinite time in Linux

AlsUse semaphores! Have your thread blocked on a semaphore by using sem_wait. Once you need to wake your thread signal the semaphore by using sem_post from another thread.

@TonyTheTiger: hmm...Yet another competition
 
hmmm, I'd have suggested using events like CreateEvent in windows, which, when signalled will wake up the thread
though I'm not sure what the Linux variant of that is called
@Als haha
 
Als
Agreed.
But semaphores exist for such very synchronization scenarios
 
I fixed the question. Sleeping for an infinite amount of time is stupid :)
It's also known as death.
 
Als
I am pissed about anonymous downvoting because i seem to have rubbed way to many people it seems, Everyday I get a few anonymous downvotes.
 
11:10 AM
but semaphores are normally used when you want to allow multiple thread (a finite number) to be able to wake up the thread. Like when you create a producer/consumer pattern with a queue, and you'd want to be able to take off items from multiple threads
 
Als
@RMartinhoFernandes: Actually he didn't want to sleep infinitely, he wanted to sleep will something happens in another thread.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes yea, that's just silly, might as well not have the thread then
 
Als
@TonyTheTiger: Are we not doing the same in that case?
Waking up a thread on some event happening in another thread
 
> Expected error occured while executing an operation.
Nice. At least it wasn't unexpected.
 
Als
woot? @RMartinhoFernandes
 
11:15 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes lol, hahah :P that's a nice change :P
@Als yea we are, except for a semaphore allows a finite number of threads to set it to signalled, whereas an event allows only one thread to set to signalled and one thread to enter the code protected by the event
subtle difference
 
Als
@TonyTheTiger: There exist Binary Semaphore's
 
@Als oh, well, then yea that's fine
I upvoted your answer :)
 
Als
@TonyTheTiger: :) Thanks
 
They're not quite the same, but similar.
 
Als
11:18 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes: What is not quite the same?
 
WinAPI events and binary semaphores.
 
Als
@RMartinhoFernandes: Well I don't know much about WinAPI events but Binary semaphore is a valid enough way to acheive what the OP asked for in that Q.
 
Yeah sure. Just pointing out that there are subtle differences. (You know, being a pedant.)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Thanks for that :)
 
Als
@RMartinhoFernandes: ah okay :)
 
11:21 AM
We love pedantry :P
 
Als
@RMartinhoFernandes: Just for a moment I thought you are the dick who downvoted me on that :P
haha
hmm a wannabe...
 
What's wrong?
 
Als
Picked up an A eh...
 
Als
@RMartinhoFernandes: couldn't get the chick :P
 
11:28 AM
Dear author of this piece ofcode: If you are throwing exceptions with localized messages (which you shouldn't anyway) why the heck are you swallowing them?
 
Als
says Who? to Whom? and Where?
 
Als
I am finding the popup thingy incredibly annoying
 
localised Exception::what() doesn't strike me immediately as a bad idea. What's wrong with it?
it would break doing if (e.what() == "Bad incantations") obviously, but that seems to be a more terrible idea than localisations of the string
 
Exception messages are not for users to be looking at. Why would you localise something that doesn't go on screen?
It also makes for bad error reports, because the programmer should not need to know every language the app was localised for.
 
11:44 AM
He's baaacckkk, and he's got a new trick! Magical Maxpm is ten times as slick!
Not really, though. Debugging PHP is painful.
 
Are there debuggers for that?
 
*Shrugs*
 
Ugh PHP
 
Yes, but they're more painful than not using them.
 
Hmph.
 
11:46 AM
0
Q: C++ code to delete specific hex bytes from file and insert other bytes without overwriting data

ner0I've been roaming the internet for days now in search of a sample that would help me achieve what I need but so far I've been unable to... I'm also not a programmer although I still try to do things that only programmers can. I'm trying to build a little app to automate a certain number of tasks ...

how much code can you post?
 
I either asked or saw a question like that a while ago.
 
@TonyTheTiger Not that much.
 
How to modify specific parts of a file.
I wouldn't know what to search for, though.
 
I've never really got my head around how input iterators work
anybody got any place where the mechanism is explained?
 
@TonyTheTiger How to use them, or how they're implemented?
 
11:50 AM
@TonyTheTiger it's pretty simple, isn't it? read from the stream when the iterator is incremented, then return it when the iterator is dereferenced, afaik
 
What characterizes an input iterator? Isn't it just a regular forward iterator?
 
No, forward iterator is more specific.
 
@Maxpm It's an iterator that is equality comparable.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes no, like how can you insert with an iterator, insertion will cause the thing being inserted to, to change, so the iterator is invalidated, no?
 
Just that? Why call it an input iterator, then?
 
11:53 AM
@TonyTheTiger Oh, so you meant insertion iterators and not input iterators.
@Maxpm Because it can be used to provide input? (Though it's not just that, you can also use -> on them).
 
@RMartinhoFernandes oh I thought that input iterators, where exactly that, I'm obviously not understanding the purpose of an input iterator then
 
An insertion iterator is actually an output iterator.
Because you use it to output stuff.
 
ugh, what? Now I'm utterly confused... Time to get out the C++ book
 
If you can do *it = foo; it's an output iterator.
If you can only do foo = *it; it's an input iterator.
 
What's the biggest "does that even compile?" moment you've ever had?
 
12:00 PM
Any time I write a template.
 
@CatPlusPlus Pfft.
 
And then I try it in GCC.
And it turns into "why the fuck does it not compile".
 
Template errors are the most cryptic things I've ever seen. They're worse than SQL queries.
 
VS is much too lenient.
 
I really like templates. They're fun! I just wish they could be compiled.
 
12:05 PM
@maxpm typedef void; is perfectly legal C - that's always a WTF, does that even compile
 
o_O
typedefs still confuse me.
The syntax of them, that is.
I try to avoid them.
 
(that example is also not legal C++)
 
Who cares about C.
 
I wonder about the possibility of making a C++ kernel. One of the main issues is the absence of a runtime library, but what if you link it statically rather than dynamically? Sure, it'd make the kernel physically large, but it's a kernel. Who cares?
 
so I've finally heard something back from the first job interview
 
12:10 PM
Of course it's possible.
 
there are examples too IIRC
 
symbian is C++ albeit bizarre pre-standard C++
 
Pre-standard C++?
What would C++ be without the standards pedants, though?
@TonyTheTiger How did it go?
 
So.... I have to ask another silly question, as I've asked a few in my time here. Assuming that I wanted to make an excel style graph with a language like C++ (even something simple like a scatter plot with x / y axis) using the most rudimentary graphics available, where would I get started? What libraries / routines should I look into learning?
 
12:21 PM
@HunderingThooves - I'd just popen or similar gnuplot
 
@Maxpm basically, they haven't totally rejected me yet (phew), they're just waiting for an official answer from the tech guys if they want to continue with me or not, I heard that they do like me as a candidate. So I really hope that they say yes. :)
 
@HunderingThooves - if that's not quite what you were looking for then you want to find a library that can write images and set RGB values for each pixel according to your input data
 
@HunderingThooves If you want to output it as an image, you can always just learn the image format and write to it directly. That might be easier than learning C++ graphics libraries.
 
(e.g. Boost GIL, image magick, libpng)
 
@TonyTheTiger Congratulations, then. :D
 
12:23 PM
@Maxpm I'm not sure if that would be much easier, or much harder?
@awoodland gnuplot seems like it might work, but it looks like it might take some time to learn
 
@Maxpm Can you explain a bit more about that sort of thing?
 
<kbd>Fail.</kbd>
 
Lol
Keyboard text in html
 
12:26 PM
In computer graphics, a bitmap or pixmap is a type of memory organization or image file format used to store digital images. The term bitmap comes from the computer programming terminology, meaning just a map of bits, a spatially mapped array of bits. Now, along with pixmap, it commonly refers to the similar concept of a spatially mapped array of pixels. Raster images in general may be referred to as bitmaps or pixmaps, whether synthetic or photographic, in files or memory. In certain contexts, the term bitmap implies one bit per pixel, while pixmap is used for images with multiple bit...
That might be the simplest.
 
bitmaps - helping guarantee poor quality printing in DTP since 1993
 
Hrm, Interesting.
@awoodland DTP?
 
Desktop publishing?
 
That's what I was thinking...
That's what wikipedia said.
 
Yeah.
 
12:38 PM
Also, I had one other silly little question that I just can't seem to get confirmed, but it seems too stupid to ask a question about on the main website. I see a ton of people using stuff with _t in C++ and such. What does the _t mean / stand for here?
 
@HunderingThooves It's a convention used to denote a private member variable.
 
Hrm, I see.
 
class Foo
{
    int _Bar;
    public:
    Foo(int Bar) { _Bar = Bar; }
};
I don't really use it, to be honest. It's ugly. xP
 
I was just thinking that, it's harder to read for me.
Is it a common thing to see though?
 
@HunderingThooves Yeah, somewhat.
 
12:43 PM
@Maxpm You should NEVER declare a variable beginning with an underscore and uppercase
 
Is there a keyboard shortcut for replying to messages, much like the up arrow is a shortcut for editing?
@KillianDS Why is that?
 
It's a reserved identifier.
 
those are reserved for internal use
 
I knew double-underscore identifiers were, but I wasn't aware of the capitalization thing. Thanks.
 
88
Q: What are the rules about using an underscore in a C++ identifier?

Roger LipscombeIt's common in C++ to name member variables with some kind of prefix to denote the fact that they're member variables, rather than local variables or parameters. If you've come from an MFC background, you'll probably use "m_foo". I've also seen "myFoo" occasionally. C# (or possibly just .NET) se...

 
12:50 PM
@KillianDS Good to know.
 
typedefs which end in _t are reserved too
 
@Maxpm That's something I think a lot when reading about C++ on SO
 
@awoodland in a way. posix says they reserve them, but I'm pretty sure the C++ standard itself says nothing of the sort
 
@jalf I wouldn't do it, anyway.
 
so technically, it depends on whether you think posix has authority to reserve arbitrary identifiers in arbitrary languages I guess :)
 
12:54 PM
I generally don't feel bad about disregarding POSIX.
 
as you might have guessed, I don't really feel too badly about violating that particular rule. Recently though, I've started using _type instead of _t pretty consistently, not out of concern for POSIX, but because I think it looks nicer :)
 

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