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8:00 PM
I think it's an ambiguity of English grammar. You can say "int pointer" to refer to int*, which is a "pointer-to-int".
The same can apply to const. "const pointer" to mean a "pointer-to-const".
 
@Als Do you understand what is going on if someone mention 'const ref', as in "pass by const ref" for instance?
 
Of course it could also mean a "const-pointer-to-something".
 
Als
@LucDanton: What do you mean
I don;t see no misnomer there
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I don't think so, 'const pointer' is unambiguous to me. I think it's formed on 'const reference', which is jsut as abusive but one ambiguity is removed.
@Als Do you understand "std::bind uses pass by const ref"? (just as an example)
 
@LucDanton Sorry, unambiguous meaning const T*?
Or T* const?
 
8:04 PM
First one.
Of course given context I might infer that 'pointer to const' is implied.
 
Als
void doSomething(cont int &i);
 
How do you say the second one?
@LucDanton Ah, so it needs context for disambiguation?
 
I personally always use the unambiguous form: pointer to const, reference to non const, etc.
@RMartinhoFernandes Yes. I think it's an abuse of the language.
@Als Exactly
Now someone might similarly say 'pass by const pointer', which is a nice parallel.
Unfortunately, since T& const is forbidden T* const isn't so it's not always clear which is meant.
 
Als
void doSomething(int *const ptr);
ah okay
Never thought of it.
 
@Als And that const is much less important than the one in int const* ptr.
 
8:07 PM
Well, it's not very useful.
You can't change a local copy of the pointer. So what?
 
Als
@LucDanton: int const* ptr is a pointer to a const int
 
@Als No.
It's an immutable pointer to a mutable int.
If you dereference it, you get int&.
@Als Right.
 
Als
@LucDanton: Well i do know that, I was not aware of why it is called a misnomer since I know it by syntax and not relate it to spoken language
silence>
 
sbi
 
@sbi: if you post the XKCD url instead of the image, you get the tooltip in the onebox.
 
8:21 PM
Didn't you read the newbie hints?
 
sbi
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus It doesn't say that XKCD links are inlined!
 
I like the drunk with the hat in the first panel.
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus I shall add it to the newbie hints right away..
 
8:23 PM
And I don't like the implication that "computer experts" are not "people".
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes I didn't even realize that. :-x
 
Who'd want to be people.
 
Great, now i have to read more newbie hints? I just got through them.
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus Not cats, certainly. They have people to serve them.
 
Speaking of the hints.
fully history => full history
that that any of us => that any of us
chat's browsers window => chat's browser window
Here's a defect report :)
 
sbi
8:26 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Thank you! (I fixed the latter to "chat browser's window", though.)
Well, since there's not much happening here right now, maybe I should seize the moment to post the latest version?
 
@sbi Good idea. I'll finally get to read them and know what I'm doing wrong! (not that I'm likely to change my behavior...)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Would a better word be "errata"?
 
sbi
Ok. Please everybody relax for 5mins, refrain from posting, and watch me struggle with the chat...
If you want to ask a C++ question here, you are welcome to do so, although you probably will have a better audience at Stack Overflow proper. Posting a link to a proper question at Stack Overflow might actually give you better results. Users are here to chat and that includes off-topic subjects as well as the outcome of the standardization process and anything in between.
Wherever you ask, always make sure you follow Roger's advice so that your question is actually answerable by others.
Note that drive-by linking (showing up just to dump a link to your question and not to participate in discussions) is frowned upon here. In fact, regulars might flag such messages as offensive or downvote the question.
You can edit your messages for 2mins. Click the v arrow appearing left of it when you hover your mouse over it and pick "edit" from the menu that appears. Also, Cursor Up will edit your last message (doing it twice edits the one before that etc.), Enter confirms the edit, Escape cancels it. The chat will keep a full history of your editing, though, visible for the others.
Messages are one-liners by default and max. 500 characters long. You can add a newline by pressing Shift+Enter; such messages have no max length (that any of us has run up against). Note that messages with too many lines (according to a definition unknown to us) will be truncated by default, requiring users to click on an "expand" link to see them in full.
Markdown works pretty much like in comments on SO proper (there are subtle differences, though, like newline working), but fails for multi-line messages (except for fixed-width code; see below). Apparently, that's by design.
Code can be formatted using backticks or by indenting all lines of a multi-line message four spaces. There's also a "fixed font" button apearing when your message has more than one line.
Links to chat messages and to specific web pages (questions, answers, and user pages on the SE sites, Wikipedia articles, Twitter messages, XKCD pages...) will inline an excerpt of the page, when they are the only text in a message. The same goes for links to images. There's also an "upload" button next to the input pane (only enabled when the input pane is empty) that will upload images to imgur.com, putting the link into the input pane.
Mentioning others using the @syntax will notify them - auditively if they are in the chat, and through the StackExchange inbox feature across the whole SE network. The UI will suggest matches after you type @ and the first letters. You can cycle between the suggestions using the tab key, accept by entering space, followed by your message.
Reply to specific messages by clicking on the down-and-right arrow that appears at the right of all messages when you hover over them (or by clicking the v arrow as mentioned above and picking "reply to this message" from its menu). This will start the message with :NNNNNNN, where NNNNNN is the message's ID. (You can also manually type the colon, followed by the ID. You can find any message's ID in the permalink to the message, which you'll find beside the message's edit menu item.)
You can spend a limited number of stars per day on messages you like. Recently starred messages are shown on the right. The more stars a message has, the longer it stays there. If there's a number to the right of a star, it indicates the number of people (>1) who have starred it.
Room owners can also pin messages to that area. (The message you clicked on which linked to this was pinned.) Pinned messages are automagically unpinned after 14 days.
An expanded version of these first hints can be found at the chat FAQ, linked to from the "faq" link at the lower right corner of the chat browser's window. (A small popup window showing just the formatting help of the FAQ can be invoked through the "help" link at the same place.)
If you wonder why we have so many room owners: This room was originally created by some user(s) who later disappeared, orphaning it, so that other users set up a new C++ room. A moderator objected against two C++ rooms, and transferred ownership of the older C++ room to those who had created the new room (which was left to die).
To prevent this from ever happening again, we have the inofficial room policy to turn regulars into owners (and to remove those no longer here from the list of owners).
Ok, that's it, thanks for keeping quite for a moment!
 
sbi
Mhmm. I think I forgot to add a few lines about what happens if someone is flagged.
I meant to do that the other day, but now I can't find anything.
:(
 
8:36 PM
blink-blink I only have so many stars to give?! Damn i shouldnt have wasted one on @JerryCoffin.
 
Only so many per day.
 
@JohnKaul You should never waste them on me!
 
sbi
@JohnKaul Oh, didn't you know? You are supposed to give all your stars to my messages!
 
lol
 
I did not know that @sbi :P have mine
 
8:37 PM
Oh, not again.
 
sbi
<groan> Oh please, get a grip! </groan>
Thanks.
 
No problem. It was a joke after all.
 
sbi
@Collecter That's one that got pretty old here, you know.
 
I can already see this place is going to be addicting. Is there a rehab forum setup i should know about?
 
No. There is no hope.
 
8:40 PM
@sbi I am not old here to know that.
Well, it is time for me to depart. I shall return on monday.
 
Well, there was this one "sbi's starry night" way back, when every damn thing in the starboard was a message of his.
@Collecter Bye.
 
@Collecter bye.
 
sbi
@Collecter TBH, I didn't even connect your message about me giving a star with the many stars appearing (I thought you were just referring to that one gimme-stars message of mine, not to all my messages), so when I groaned it wasn't knowingly directed at you.
 
@Collecter Have a nice weekend.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Actually, when the messages on the starboard were all mine, there wasn't a single "damn" one among them. They were all great!
 
8:44 PM
@JohnKaul Errata is what author publishes.
 
Yeah, sure.
 
sbi
Does someone have the URL to that meta question explaining the current values for flagged messages being deleted etc.?
 
5
Q: How many chat flags are required to remove a message/ban a user?

DeadMGIn this question, Moderation controls for Public Chat Rooms, balpha says that moderation flags can automatically ban a user and remove a message. I'd like to know exactly how many flags are required, because I've seen chat entries accrue a good six or seven flags and remain just where they were a...

 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Thanks!
 
@CatPlusPlus An errata is a list of errors, and implies nothing about who found/published the errors in the list.
 
8:47 PM
@CatPlusPlus yeah i know (for a book) but i thought they were also used by developers to list security problems....I was trying for humor.
 
It's not an errata because we're fixing the publication.
 
sbi
Posted by Kyle Brandt on August 4th, 2011

This Saturday, August 6th starting at 3pm EDT (19:00 UTC) we will be taking our sites offline for maintenance. We are aiming to keep the downtime to about thirty minutes to an hour. Should we need to extend this window I will post updates on this post.

During this window we are going to be patching our database servers. We are also migrating our servers to a new AD domain so we have everything under a consistent naming structure.

Really, do they have to do that on a Saturday night?!
 
Keeping errata over digital media sounds stupid.
@sbi It's probably when the sites are less active.
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus It wasn't published by me. (Just to join the cat bashing.)
 
hi
 
sbi
8:50 PM
@DeadMG lo
 
@DeadMG Hi welcome back.
 
hello
 
suppagesâ„¢
 
sbi
Ok, here's my draft for a paragraph about flagging for the Newbie hints.
> Messages can be brought to the attention of a moderator (using the message's popup), providing a small comment to the mod. You can also flag messages, by clicking onto the small flag to the right of the message. If enough users flag a message, it will automatically be deleted by the system, and the poster be banned for a while. Note that all >10k users get notified about all flagged messages across all rooms and most of them find that very annoying.
Anyone any input for that?
 
Mention what flags are for.
Very important.
 
sbi
8:52 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Damn. How could I have forgotten that?
Meh. Now it's too long. And I haven't even put the pink in there yet.
 
@sbi I know.
 
what's "be banned for a while."? How long to i have to be without?
 
Last time, I was out for 30 minutes :(
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: It's not funny to flag people.
I had to do that. The lack of capitals and a full stop was driving me nuts.
 
30 min. Oh that's not too bad. I can handle that.
 
sbi
@JohnKaul You say that now. Wait until the addiction kicks in fully.
 
8:58 PM
crap.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes That was one of @Dead's messages I put in there. And him being the genius in resident and the local authority on the English language I didn't dare to "fix" even the most embarrassing errors.
3
 
good
 
Now that was funny!
 
I refuse to be represented by any kind of proper grammar. That's for nubbinses.
 
sbi
@JohnKaul <raises_impressive_eyebrow> Did you just answer "crap" to one of my messages? </raises_impressive_eyebrow>
 
9:00 PM
@sbi Afraid so. BUT! it was in reference to the impending addiction not what you said.
 
sbi
@JohnKaul Phew.
 
you know, I'd really like a graphical debugger
 
sbi
Ok, not it's two paragraphs. Please read again:
> Messages can be brought to the attention of a moderator (using the message's popup), providing a small comment to the mod.
> You can also flag messages as spam/inappropriate/offensive by clicking onto the small flag to the right of the message. If enough users flag a message, it will automatically be deleted by the system, and the poster be banned for a while. Note that all >10k users get notified about all flagged messages across all rooms and most of them find that very annoying, especially when done for silly reasons.
Any comments to that?
 
emphasis on "very annoying"
 
sbi
@DeadMG Like so?
 
9:03 PM
yes
now that's a WinRAR message
 
sbi
@DeadMG You mean so tightly packed?
 
@sbi seems fine.
 
what, you have never seen the Windows archiving program used as an adjective
 
You used it as a verb?
 
sbi
9:05 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Thanks!
 
Now I'm even more confused.
 
ah, I meant to say adjective
I think
never paid much attention in English class
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Of course, that's why there is an "a" in front of it! Oh, wait...
 
Argh
Don't you hate it when you sign up for a website
They send you a confirmation email
 
nope.
 
9:06 PM
Then when you confirm, send you another 'welcome' email
 
sbi
@DeadMG Certainly. Is this what makes you the authority here?
 
:L Thank you
 
The etymology of WinRAR the adjective is quite simple: winner -> winnar -> winrar -> WinRAR, retaining it's original meaning if applicable in somewhat different contexts
@sbi nah, my extensive experience
 
sbi
@DeadMG I wouldn't call that simple, although I have to admit seeing some simple-mindedness in there..
 
the Internet is a fertile ground for typo-based word mutations
 
sbi
9:07 PM
@DeadMG Maybe it's that what you meant to be an authority on?
 
nope
although I am an Authorityâ„¢ on that too, obviously
 
Oh, of course.
 
I sense another TM or (C) comming.
 
I only know the code for â„¢
but you're right, it should probably be Authorityâ„¢
 
It's 0153, 0169 and 169, for â„¢, ©, and ®.
 
9:09 PM
©
learn something new every day
 
sbi
Oh, no!
 
although â„¢ is more my thing
 
sbi
I forgot the first paragraph when I posted the newbie hints. Why did nobody realize that??
Now I'll have to do this all over!
 
because I have no idea what most of the newbie hints say, since I've never read them :P
 
sbi
Meh.
 
9:11 PM
just post it on pastebin or something
 
@sbi It's there.
 
sbi
@DeadMG We had this discussion quite often already. Please read the history on that.
 
41 mins ago, by sbi
If you want to ask a C++ question here, you are welcome to do so, although you probably will have a better audience at Stack Overflow proper. Posting a link to a proper question at Stack Overflow might actually give you better results. Users are here to chat and that includes off-topic subjects as well as the outcome of the standardization process and anything in between.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Oops?
 
@sbi ...thats why i said "CRAP"
 
9:11 PM
@sbi I vaguely recall suggesting it before
should have depended upon my Geniusâ„¢ to have already seen this solution
 
@sbi At first I thought that "Oh, no!" was a horrified response to the fact that @Dead learns something new every day.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah, you're right. Ha! The chat had already swapped that one message out...
Phew. Well, the link works and points to the new version.
@RMartinhoFernandes Was it really necessary to be so mean to him? I mean, he doesn't even realize what fool he makes of himself.
 
Sorry, I was mean?
I didn't intend to.
 
So how do you guys get any work (developing) done if you are in here all day? I have a hard time believing that you can focus on both.
2
 
@sbi I realize everything. Because I'm a Genius.â„¢
@JohnKaul It provides necessary distractions. I'm a very all-in, or all-out kind of guy, and if I'm not all-in coding then I need to be all-out with something else
 
sbi
9:16 PM
@JohnKaul What work? You ought to fix your priorities. :)
 
@JohnKaul I'm on vacation :P
 
oh, and that, I'm a student so :P
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes You're in the C++ chat while on vacation? How sad.
 
Darn, i thought i found the reason why the ACME program sucked.
@sbi ...im at home now. Stupid addiction!
 
although having my flatmate back is hindering my style
I tend to sing, loudly, whilst developing solidly
 
9:19 PM
@sbi I'm addicted :)
 
sbi
@JohnKaul I'm still at work, and have been for >14hrs now. (Not that I had been working for the last 2 of them.) It's approaching midnight and I need an hour to go home.
 
I'm swimming/programming, mostly.
 
@DeadMG lmao...what? developing what kinda of "solid"
 
by that I mean, in the zone
 
sbi
@JohnKaul Never mind the puppy.
 
9:20 PM
or is it referred to as the flow these days? I get mixed up
 
@sbi got it.
 
hey! mind me
hey, listen!
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes I was in the chat, too, when I was on vacation, but only a very few times, usually for a short moment only, and mostly to boast about the weather. :)
 
you're "right on" or "in the groove" DeadMG
 
@DeadMG Both are fine, I think.
 
9:22 PM
@sbi I'm not in the Canaries :( I can't afford to travel yet.
 
@JohnKaul It's my summer holidays so...I'm just writing stuff casually
 
@sbi you took credit for the weather.
 
@DeadMG Oh, you sing. Lemme guess, your flatmate is not very happy with that.
 
I try my best to keep it quiet
I see that absolutely nobody got the "hey, listen!" reference
 
Nope
 
9:23 PM
I wish i could write stuff (Im learning).
i did. "how can i listen?" ...haha
 
@JohnKaul What are you learning?
 
sbi
@DeadMG We didn't listen.
@RMartinhoFernandes It's a she. Maybe she likes puppies wining?
 
I find you all a great disappointment
"hey, listen!" is one of gaming's most recognizable phrases
 
Sorry - care to enlighten us
Haha; I don't play games
 
@KianMayne Programming. I am not a developer (I work in another field) but hope to make a carrer change soon.
 
9:25 PM
Please don't -- consoles can die in a fire.
 
@sbi And the weather isn't really great around here.
 
sbi
@JohnKaul I took credit for going someplace where the weather is reasonably good for summer holidays.
 
I never played Zelda, TBH.
 
@JohnKaul Which language I meant
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Where are you living exactly?
 
@KianMayne C++. I already know a couple of others but nothing "usefull".
 
@sbi That's okay i guess (you did have a pretty good chance)...umm...errr...i better cut this statement off now before this morphs into another math discussion.
 
sbi
@JohnKaul No chance to dive into math with me.
 
How come there are like literally identical programming structures in PHP & C++
 
9:29 PM
What?
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Portugal I knew, which is why I asked about "exactly". Mhmm. That's about as far south as Rome. And the weather isn't good for you right now? Isn't that just your standards being too high?
 
by the way
 
@sbi It's probably going to rain tomorrow.
 
damn you all, I looked for a hey, listen clip on youtube and found this music video which I am now unfortunately addicted to :(
 
sbi
@KianMayne Because many of the popular programming languages of the last 25 years more or less heavily borrowed from C.
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh you poor boy! It's been raining here about 7 days out of the last 10, once (last weekend) straight for about 48hrs.
 
9:32 PM
Well, Germany is not Southern Europe.
We're used to another kind of Summer here.
(Though in the last five years, three sucked.)
 
Ohh I see, I'm not to good with any type of history
Apart from Old == Bad, slow, rubbish, small, New == WAYY BETTER
 
I can't swim if it's raining. I mean, I can, but it's probably not very healthy.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes why? you are already wet right?
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Now, swimming in the rain would require a very hard rain. But maybe you could take a shower?
 
How do you swim in the shower?
 
9:35 PM
I'm swiiimming in the rain.
 
lol
slowly
 
On a programming/side note: I got invited to "participate" (read: watch) a real programer work on a project reciently (he gave me access to the VCS and sent me emails about his plans and thoughts). I didnt understand much of what he wrote so im a bit hesitant (read: scared) towards my desire to change careers.
 
What kind of project was it?
 
hey guys
 
9:41 PM
Hi.
 
does anyone know java well?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Have you heard of AutoCAD and or .DWG? It was a DWG reader thing. Its open source now because he took a job with Intell or something.
 
sbi
@Josh Millions do. Why don't you try the Java room?
 
Millions? OMG.
 
@sbi ive tried and no one is there
 
9:43 PM
I bet someone is watching this: .
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes How many are living on Java?
 
Gosh, how could I fall for that one?
 
there is only one live in java
and hes not talking
ive just got a quick question
 
sbi
@Josh That's like the story of the guy who's circling a street light, looking down, and answers the policeman asking that he's looking for that he's looking for his keys. And when the policeman asks whether he's lost it here, underneath the street light, he says no, he lost it over there, but it's dark there, so he thought he'd rather look under the light.
 
i love this nice community
 
sbi
9:46 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Rather easily, it seems.
 
this nice community does not approve of drive-by linking
 
@Josh Me too, it's where I belong on the Internets
 
@DeadMG Well, no one linked anything yet ;)
 
sbi
@DeadMG Why did you feel the urge to blurt this out right now?
 
lol...sorry Josh i dont know Java so i cant help.
 
9:47 PM
@sbi Because I got the feeling that he was about to post a link to a Java question
just a funny feeling in mah bones
 
I checked, no questions asked in a couple of weeks.
 
sbi
@DeadMG I think I found a somewhat nicer way to tell him that this would be inappropriate.
 
I think i just peed a little because im laughing so hard.
 
hey, I thought it was perfectly nice, if you're not gonna drive-by link then it quite clearly excludes you from any disapproval
 
*face-palm*
 
9:50 PM
Hey; what do people think about this Visual Studio Lightswitch?
I haven't really had a chance to look at it
 
What's that? A VS that works in the dark?
 
the only review of it I've seen suggests that doesn't hit it's target in terms of non-developer applications
 
> Build Custom Apps, Coding Optional
Huh, I'm not interested.
 
sbi
@KianMayne Nothing.
 
Haha I love this place
So, not putting us out of a job just yet then? ;)
 
9:54 PM
Oh, "write programs without coding" tools have been around for several years.
Of course, they suck balls.
 
sbi
> The Honolulu Star-Advertiser reports that a woman contacted a state agency and reported seeing the hand at the Moku Auia Seabird Sanctuary, also known as Goat Island. She said she spotted the hand over the weekend and again Thursday. Honolulu police homicide detectives were called to the sanctuary to help with the case. Police spokeswoman Michelle Yu said Thursday afternoon that the object was determined to be dried squid.
@KianMayne I dunno. (Did I mention I never thought about it?)
 
Interesting story. Bit of a letdown in the end, though.
 
@sbi Yes, yes you did
 
I'm tired.
Good night.
 
good night
 
9:57 PM
Nightnight
 
BTW, Do you guys code at night/weekends and if so, what IDE do you use at home (Visual studio is EXPENSIVE!)
 

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