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2 hours later…
2:14 AM
@EtiennedeMartel CS Games were so much fun
 
 
3 hours later…
5:26 AM
@DeadMG Actually, I like that, because just by looking at the first character of an identifier I immediately know something about the entity being defined.
 
@FredOverflow Go specifies source files to be Unicode so they ran into the problem that some scripts simply have no notion of uppercase/lowercase.
 
 
3 hours later…
8:06 AM
morning
 
mornin
I'm supposed to cleanup up my apartment this morning :(
I dislike.
 
meh
no work today?
 
Morning
 
8:25 AM
@TonyTheTiger Verlof :)
 
nice :)
 
Evening all.
 
sbi
8:52 AM
@TuxD Morning.
 
Hi SBI
 
sbi
@TuxD Martin? That you??
 
Yep. Don;t tell.
:-)
 
sbi
9:13 AM
@TuxD I'll keep my mouth shut. :)
 
> “Waitasec,” I said aloud, “we’re sending email messages from a trigger in the database!?!”
 
sbi
Did I ever mention that Programmers.SE is a strange place? The other day I stumbled into another question I thought I could add to, and now my answer is going through the roof, chasing my all-time highest-voted answer on that site. It will soon surpass my highest-voted answers on SO, and that includes a reddit'ed FAQ entry!
@RMartinhoFernandes So you have subscribed to Billy, too? :)
 
Who's Billy?
 
sbi
@MalwareMinigun, Northfield, Ohio
Billy is a C++ developer and contributor to StackOverflow.com (http://stackoverflow.com/users/82320/billy-oneal). He also volunteers for BleepingComputer.com
1.7k tweets, 159 followers, following 124 users
 
Did he tweet that or something?
 
sbi
9:15 AM
Today's daily WTF is particularly entertaining.. http://t.co/BRbyTcb
 
sbi
Well, I take it then that you haven't subscribed to him.
 
Well, I subscribed to TDWTF.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah, that seems a way to get TDWTF, too.
 
> If you have the feeling they might be hard to convince to let you work 30hrs, start out offering less (20hrs?) and then let yourself be "persuaded" to work 30hrs. :) I did this with my first part-time job.
How the heck does this work?
 
9:18 AM
> back then here in Germany they hired as C++ programmers everyone who could spell "C"
@sbi I feel that way too.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes You come and say that you are looking for a 20hr job. They say it isn't enough. You say you don't work 40hrs/week. They suggest some middle-ground. You suggest 30hrs. They sigh, but agree. :) I tried this once, and it worked for me.
 
I suppose the salary is 75% the base one then ?
 
sbi
@kbok I was doing the training for apprentices back then in a company I worked for, and they hired "developers" which were then assigned to that training in order to make them fit for doing their job.
@kbok 75% compared to what?
 
@sbi Of course, it's simple after all. Silly me.
 
@sbi To the salary you would have if you did 40hrs a week.
 
sbi
9:22 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes What are you referring to?
@kbok How would I know? I only ever bargained with them for 30hrs. I don't know what they would have payed me would I have applied for 40hrs. You might be assuming right, but they could just as well have payed me more than 75% (because 80% already seems a nice low number to them) or less (on the grounds of assuming that a 75% employee is less useful and should thus be payed less per hour). Companies aren't always deciding such things rationally.
@RMartinhoFernandes I'm sure it might not work in some cases, but it does work in other. I have seen it working once, anyway.
 
@sbi I see. I thought there was some precise rules about part-time salaries.
 
I might give it a try since I value my time a lot more than my money. Though I'm not sure I'll be in a good bargaining position :(
 
It might still be the case in France though.
 
@sbi I assume that when you went for this, you had prior work experience, no?
 
sbi
@kbok Since there is no rules about what a company ought to pay you, there's no way to rule over how much they pay you for part-time.
 
9:31 AM
@sbi Is it ? There is still the minimal salary.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes No. The 20hrs to 30hrs persuasion thing was what I did for my very first job. The only work experience I had (including a good reference) was from an internship during my studies.
@kbok I don't think there's one for IT jobs in Germany. ICBWT.
 
hey everyone.
 
@IntermediateHacker hi Interme
 
ICBWT ?
 
sbi
@kbok You aren't planning to aim for the minimum salary, are you?
 
9:33 AM
"I could be wrong, though"
 
@sbi Not really ;) I'm just curious.
 
I have been using templates a lot and i have just heard of the typename keyword.
 
@CatPlusPlus Ok, thanks.
 
Then you haven't been using templates that much.
 
is template<class x> any different from template<typename x>?
 
9:33 AM
@IntermediateHacker No
 
Nope.
 
just a different reserved identfier to make it easier to read templates
 
So why do people use typename more? I have been using class all my like
*life
 
People usually refer to class when it is a class and typename when it can be scalar types as well as classes
 
9:34 AM
@IntermediateHacker because it names a type?
 
i never like the usage of class
 
but it literally makes no difference. It's just flavor
 
class is there for historical reasons.
 
itsnt that sematic flavor
 
9:35 AM
Thanks. So does that mean I don't have to open all of my past code base and substitute class with typename ?
 
But you still need typename with dependent names.
 
@sbi Oh well, I can always blame you if this doesn't work ;) Not that it would help much.
 
@IntermediateHacker No.
It's not going anywhere.
 
@IntermediateHacker trust me you wouldnt want to
 
sbi
9:35 AM
@IntermediateHacker There was a reason to introduce typename and that presented the opportunity to use this new keyword instead of class for template parameter declarations. (class was used because Stroustrup was always reluctant to introduce new keywords.)
 
@sbi wish he introduced better .obj abstraction
 
@sbi I think i kinda agree with Stroustrup. There are A LOT of keywords in C++ as it it
*is
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes As I wrote in a comment to that answer: When I applied they hired you as a programmer if you could persuade them that you are able to read and write, so it was easy for me. But then I got the first job I applied to, so there's plenty of room in the numbers of applications/interviews to compensate for that, and still get such a job.
 
oh i got my IBM Model M keyboard today! its great
 
sbi
@IntermediateHacker Please read the newbie hints. Among other things, they explain that you can edit messages for a while.
@Chad ??
 
9:38 AM
@sbi its clicky!
 
sbi
@Chad No, it's not, and that, too, is described in the newbie hints.
 
@sbi The newbie hints has IBM Model M hints?
 
sbi
@Chad You were referring to my message to @IntermediateHacker, and I supposed you thought you would need the mouse to edit older messages.
 
@sbi no
 
9:43 AM
@sbi Lucky bastard ;) Nowadays I'll be happy if I can find one C++ job within a couple hundred kilometres that doesn't require previous C++ work experience.
I can always go for the .NET market, where I have a lot more credentials (thought not many), but I'm spoiled by C++ now :(
 
You missed my second answer on the same question. Total of 75 for one question.
15
A: Most overhyped software engineering technologies and concepts of the last 20 years

Tux-DNeural Networks and AI Lots of hype lots of films of smart robots killing us to achieve their own freedom. "All hail our smart robotic overlords"

 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes You don't have C++ work experience?
@TuxD Ah, I even beat that on SO. That operator overloading FAQ got me 101 so far just for the answers. :P
 
@sbi Er, I'm learning the thing since last April.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Oops. (You mean you are learning C++, right? Last April is not even half a years ago.)
 
9:47 AM
@SBI: 147 for talking about underscore: stackoverflow.com/questions/228783/…
 
@sbi Yeah, that.
 
sbi
@TuxD I could make that 146 by removing my upvote. :)
 
:-)
Good I must be bored.
 
oh hai nubs#
 
oh hai
 
9:49 AM
hi
 
sbi
Anyway, you should not go by all they list as requirements in job ads. IME (that includes interviewing candidates) companies rarely ever get all they asked for. If you have previous job experience, and know C++ reasonably well, these two can easily replace previous C++ experience in many cases. You'll just have to find a way to prove your C++ knowledge.
 
@sbi I concur :)
 
@sbi You mean, they don't expect to get all they put in the ads? Even when it's not ridiculous?
I think I've been doing it wrong then.
I've been kind of self-censoring my applications if I don't meet the requirements.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes I bet most companies would settle for getting as much as possible.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Actually there are a lot of requirements about the candidates that isn't put in the list "communication skills, motivation, etc."
 
sbi
9:52 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes Don't do that too harshly.
 
People with good C++ skill don't move often (the companies that have them try and keep them because there are few good ones around). So ads will often ask for experience but they will take anybody with better than average skills.
 
The list is in fact super-long, so it's OK if you don't really check all the boxes :)
 
@kbok Oh, those seems to be always there. Part of the boilerplate, I guess.
 
What are the chances they'll find someone that has everything they're looking for.
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger That depends on the money they can spend. When you're google or MS, you have good chances.
 
9:54 AM
Gosh, I really hate this job hunt dance. Neither party take the thing seriously.
 
@sbi Besides those, I mean, I've browsed a lot of applications and some are asking for things that only a few can really give them, I think
 
@kbok In fact, those "social skills" things are the only ones I overlook when making an application. If I didn't I'd probably never apply for a job. I'm... handicapped there.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Actually they do. It's just that they don't take all the statements literally.
 
0
Q: Why ping all times alive?

Zygimantas MagelinskasI scripting script which in log write ping alive or no alive. But all times to log write that ping alive. Why? Code: import os import re import time import sys from threading import Thread from time import gmtime, strftime class IntTools: def PingTool(self): ipconf = open('ip.con...

 
@RMartinhoFernandes tell me about it, I hate it very much too
 
9:56 AM
Oh, Engrish.
You so funny.
 
> I scripting script which in log write ping alive or no alive.
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger You mean you are not a 23 year old dedicated hacker with 12 years professional experience? No chance then, on the job market.
 
I remember a while ago @Jeff said the #1 rule of migrations was "Don't migrate crap".
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah, let's bounce it back to PSE!
 
9:58 AM
@sbi Not that, but he mentioned closing crap was better than migrating it.
 
sbi
Damn, you can't migrate a migrated question.
 
Because if it's going to be closed after migration, it's just wasting more people's time.
 
That would be fun to do crap Q pingpong.
 
@sbi Only mods can do that.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes You have a link for that? I'm flagging the thing.
@kbok Yeah, take that crop back, you suckers! :b
 
10:01 AM
> the guidance is a) don't migrate crap, ever and b) for old questions, only migrate the best and most on-topic ones for the target site. – Jeff Atwood♦ Jul 25 at 7:35
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes You are the referrer R. in residence, Martinho, so you I knew you'd have a link for this!
 
I knew there's a better reference (a full blown answer somewhere), but that should do.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah, voted to close and flagged.
 
@sbi no I'm not, I have a miserable years of experience
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger Look again at those requirements. Use your brain on them. (If that fails, click here.)
 
10:09 AM
2
Q: C++11 - trailing return types, decltype and const-ness

Ken Wayne VanderLindeI was merily experimenting with the new trailing return types, where I hit a problem with this (simplified) code #include<list> class MyContainer { private: std::list<int> ints; auto begin( ) -> decltype(ints.begin()) { return ints.begin(); } auto begin( ) const...

@sbi lol
 
sbi
10:30 AM
Questions like this one still make me shudder. BTDTGTLS.
 
@sbi What does the L stand for in BTDGTLS? Lousy?
> On Joel's test we score an unbelievable score 0.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah, it itches.
 
Wow, that's... scary.
0 on the Joel test means, at least, no version control.
@sbi You've been in a crappy job like that?
Did you run, or did you (try to) fix it?
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes I'm not sure it's really true, though. From what the guy says, they have a spec. (Only it changes twice a week.)
0
A: Non-technical manager keeps changing requirement specification. Scores 0 on Joel's test

sbiThe short version: Run. The somewhat longer version: If the manager doesn't know how to run a program, and if the senior goes along with it, then you have next to no chance of fixing things. In order to manage software projects, a manager does need to understand something about software...

 
woah, "BTDTGTLS", learning new acronyms all the time.
 
10:43 AM
I learned actor/agent-based programming in PROLOG :) I liked it!
 
10:59 AM
@sbi Two years ago I unknowingly entered such a job. I was gone after 5 months.
But we did use source control, and we had a bug database etc.. It was simply the horrible management that did it for me.
 
@StackedCrooked yes, I know about horrid management
 
sbi
@StackedCrooked I introduced a VCS in that company. No bug DB, though. I was too young.
 
I guess that a VCS is a lot harder to introduce than a bug DB.
 
@sbi Actually, I introduced it to the company also. I convinced them to get an assembla account. The one programmer that was there before me was using local source control...
 
Some people always come up with the craziest (non-)reasons for not using version control.
 
sbi
11:03 AM
@StackedCrooked Well, local is still better than none at all.
 
Some people think putting the code on a network drive equals source control.
@sbi true
 
@StackedCrooked That's more like manual source control.
I'd call local source control to something like using your own personal mercurial repository.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes He was using local svn.
 
That's not "putting the code on a network drive".
 
I didn't say he was doing that.
Actually the programmer before me had good potential. He just didn't seem assertive enough to ask for the required changes.
And that while usually people tell me that I am not assertive enough.
 
11:10 AM
I write many assertions in my code. Does that count?
 
If it makes you feel better.
 
"BTDTGTLS" ? What is that ?
 
While Google disapproves assertions and exceptions.
 
@StackedCrooked Disapproves assertions?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes you can find it in the faq for the Go programming language.
 
11:14 AM
Ah, "some programmers don't misuse assertions, so we don't have them."
@kbok Been there, done that, got the lousy shirt.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh. Is that from Monkey Island ?
 
I don't think that originated from Monkey Island.
But I have no idea.
 
@kbok You mean Madagascar?
Oh no, that's the lemurs.
 
AFAIR there's this quest where you have to find a great treasure and at the end all you have is a t-shirt with "I found the treasure" written on it. I think the main character refers at it as a "Lousy T-Shirt". But I'm not sure, it was a long time ago.
 
@kbok I doubt it originated there though
probably the other way around. Monkey Island made a reference to it as well
 
Als
11:20 AM
Party begins early today eh
hello folks
 
 
That one has the best insult swordfighting scenes.
 
Als
hmm
 
Is it me or has calling foreign mobiles with Skype got more expensive?
 
Als
don't know, don't use it
 
11:34 AM
Does Skype cost money?
I thought it was basically some sort of voice-chat.
 
Als
skype to skype is free voice chat just like yahoo or msn
but you can call from skype to phones
that costs money
 
ah, I see
makes sense
 
Als
Even yahoo provides that form of service these days, but it is not available everywhere because it is cheaper than phone to phone to calls
 
We humans are like wireless devices that communicate over the audible spectrum.
 
Als
Where are the humans here? That guy, @TonyTheTiger, asking the Q is a Tiger!
 
11:39 AM
oh
 
And different parts of the worlds use different protocols.
 
@Als I growl over the phone to other tigers
lol
 
Social growling.
 
damn, my phone is dying and I left my charger at my mum's place
 
small growl
 
Als
11:40 AM
@TonyTheTiger: Yeah thats what you do, growling at other tigers, no doubt you dont have a tigress.
 
@Als I'm a loner
 
Als
@TonyTheTiger: Not by choice but by lack of opportunity/capability
 
I might talk about sex all the time, but that doesn't mean I'm good with girls :(
 
Als
You should add that
lol
 
@Als possibly
 
Als
11:42 AM
@TonyTheTiger: oh oh, I am kidding
don't get all serious on me tiger
 
heh
lol
 
Als
@TonyTheTiger: You are a damn good guy, ask cat, S/He might be drooling over you if S/He is a She
:P
 
parse error
 
I think I'll unsubscribe from r/mylittlepony. I've concluded that it's not really my thing..
 
11:43 AM
I think cat is a he, and I'm not into guys
 
Als
was referring the cat ----->@CatPlusPlus
 
yea I know
 
cat is a bitch? that can't be.
 
Als
@TonyTheTiger: You think cat is a He, it might be a She
 
bitches are dogs.
 
11:44 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes assertions are the best thing since sliced objects, erm, bread.
 
@StackedCrooked hmmm, not my thing either, too much ponies
 
You need to be careful to not use asserts for non-programming errors. For example you should not assert user input.
 
Als
@TonyTheTiger: If there was a girl/female here there would be n suitors :P
 
@Als That would be a girl with a male name. Unlikely if you ask me.
 
@Als hmmm
 
Als
11:45 AM
@kbok: how would you know the name is a male name or a female name?
 
@Als he used to be known as Pjotr, so I guess that's a male name
 
@Als It's polish for "Peter".
 
sometimes it's ambiguous, like dominique
 
and he said recently he has a beard
I've never met a female with the name Peter
 
Als
@TonyTheTiger: lol
 
11:46 AM
@StackedCrooked correct
 
@TonyTheTiger I forgot he was Pjotr.
 
@StackedCrooked yea, then he changed it one day to CatPlusPlus
 
@TonyTheTiger I never noticed.
How sneaky.
 
int a = abs(i);
assert(a >= 0);   // Curiously, this assertion may actually fail :)
 
@TonyTheTiger A "dwarven beard". Dwarven females have beards.
 
11:47 AM
@StackedCrooked I don't know if you were around then
 
And it's "Piotr" by the way.
 
Als
Who is this dude, who is actually talking c++ in this room?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes lol, someone had to make we wrong
 
I remember when he used Piotr. Never noticed the name change.
 
@Als @foobar is
 
11:48 AM
Blasphemy!
 
Als
@TonyTheTiger: Doesn't he know he is doing so wrong
 
He should be banned for talking C++
@Als he'll realize soon enough
 
Als
yup, lol
 
C++ trolling is not acceptable here :P
only @Johannes can do that
 
Als
So if i say I am a girl?
:P
 
11:49 AM
@TonyTheTiger What is C++ trolling?
 
@Als I fail to belive that
 
Als
@TonyTheTiger: Shhh...why?
 
@foobar posting C++ code in this room and talking about it
@Als cause, it just wouldn't make sense
 
I don't get it, is this a C++ room or not?
 
Als
@TonyTheTiger: How? Justification
 
11:51 AM
@Als your FB page :P
 
Als
@foobar: Do not get worked up, Yes this is C++ room but C++ talks are rare in here
@TonyTheTiger: oh geez, you stalker how did you find that! :P
 
@Als when we talked on Yahoo
remember ?
 
Als
@TonyTheTiger: uh, does that give away FB?
Did i give you?
I dont remember, neither did i Add you i think
not on FB if i remember correctly
 
Fun! Singleton bashing!
 
@Als not really, I'm still guessing
 
11:55 AM
1
Q: Singleton - Protected vs Private Constructor

Ron_sWhen designing singletons, why is the constructor made protected and not private? This is based on what I've seen over the web. We want to control the number of instances made of that class, fair enough, but why protected? Wouldn't private do the trick as well?

 
@Als I didn't add you
 
Als
@TonyTheTiger: I see
 
I could if you want to, but I'll leave that up to your descretion
 
@Als Would you rather discuss C++ or Java? :)
 
@foobar ugh Java :( We only bash Java here
 
Als
11:59 AM
Java....eeeeww
 
Bashing Java is unfair, it doesn't have enough strength to protect itself from your insults!
 
exactly the point
 
Als
@foobar: You are in C++ room.
It's our way or highway
:P
 
We don't always bash Java here.
I can provide references if you want.
You know I can.
 
Als
oh here comes the robotic peacemaker
 
12:01 PM
@Als What me now?
 
Als
@TonyTheTiger: I didn't see your FB?!
 
Als
@CatPlusPlus: Hello Plussy Pussy!
 
@Als I'm unfindable on FB, unless I add you explicitly, you won't find me
 
Als
@TonyTheTiger: uh
 
12:02 PM
The Tiger is elusive :P
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger That's wrong. We bash PHP as well!
 
@sbi true that, it's one of @CatPlusPlus favoriete past times. :P
 
Als
He Spoke!
lol
 
@TonyTheTiger I don't think he likes it at all. Calling it favourite would be a big stretch.
 
12:05 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes I'm talking about bashing PHP being his fav pasttime
 
Als
hmm....@CatPlusPlus, Fans
 
@sbi What about Perl?
 
we laugh at Perl
 
Als
12:21 PM
I don't even laugh
just say Pass
damn i ate a lot of chips :(
@TonyTheTiger: Maybe i found you on FB
@TonyTheTiger: hehe not that difficult to find Tiger!
 
@Als add me then, see if its the correct tiger
 
Als
let me confirm if you are the right one
Dad's Ferret?
 
ohh
yes
 
Als
lulz, Hidden that showed as first result in goodle
haha
Added you.
 
yes you did add me
meh, strange
@Als what do you mean hidden?
 
Als
12:31 PM
You said you couldn't be found so hidden
i guess profiles can be made hidden on FB
 
@Als Your stomach will convert them to micro-chips.
 
Als
@foobar: While giving me a hard time about it
 
12:52 PM
template <typename _rtype, typename _args> class Function
{
    public:
        Function() { _ptr = 0; }
        Function(_rtype (*func) (_args)) { _ptr = func; }
        virtual ~Function() { delete _ptr; }

        void set_args(_args x) { _cargs = x; }
        void bind(_rtype (*func)(_args)) { _ptr = func; }

        void operator = (_rtype (*func) (_args)) { _ptr = func; }

        void operator () (void) { if (_ptr!=0) (*_ptr)(_cargs); }
        void operator () (_args& v) { if (_ptr!=0) (*_ptr)(v); }
Can anyone tell me why in the world this code isn't working???
I can't seem to find anything wrong with it.
???
 
hard to say... what error are you getting?
 
none. just some weird runtime behavious
 

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