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10:00 PM
evening all
 
Look at the Overloading section
 
Evening Tony
 
@TonyTheLion hiya
 
@LewsTherin - it needs both to undo the changes it made
 
hi
what's new here?
 
10:01 PM
Message IDs.
 
lua sucks, lua is awesome, python sucks, python is awesome, camel case sucks, camel case is awesome, and NAT
 
@awoodland there is nothing in the diagram that says that....
I have to go, I'll be back in a few. Ugh, I wish I was living alone
 
@TonyTheLion Mac OSX Lion
 
It's actually really nice
 
@JohannesSchaublitb NXT robots =)
We have played with those in school
 
@ManofOneWay man I wish we got to mess with those in school
 
@LewsTherin that diagram assumes the router has multiple IPs. which is not always the case, particularly on a home network.
 
see the section "here's how overloading works"
that's the case for most home and small business nats
 
10:09 PM
^ A bunch of cars pass right in front of a train. My heart skipped a beat.
 
the "dynamic nat" they talk about only works if you have at least one global ip for every internet-capable computer on the lan. but if you could afford that, there'd be no good reason not to just give those computers the global addresses and skip nat entirely
 
Well, not a problem with v6.
 
yeah, but v6 ain't gonna be the norm for another 10 years, i'll bet.
as long as v4+nat gets by, people aren't going to bother upgrading
 
@CatPlusPlus yup v6 is the way to go
@cHao what do you mean? v6 is here TODAY
 
it's a pain even trying to find an isp with ipv6 connectivity yet
 
10:14 PM
@cHao oh that. Right...
 
I got /64 with my dedicated server.
 
@CatPlusPlus when you can get a /64 (or even a /96) with your dsl, cable, or fios line...then i'll call v6 ready for real use. til then it's useless.
 
You can tunnel.
But yeah, it'll take a while.
 
not unless you want to hook a computer directly to the internet and let it translate, or have a router that knows how to tunnel v6 over v4
neither of which is anywhere close to mainstream yet
i actually have a /64 tunnel...but every time my router's ip changes, or i go to another network, i lose connectivity
 
You can always replace the firmware on the router.
 
10:18 PM
i have to go to the tunnel broker and tell them "hey, this is my ip now"
@CatPlusPlus not unless i have firmware that does the job, or like bricking routers while trying to get it right myself
 
@cHao I will read it thanks
@cHao ok I think I get is what is happening here. In simple terms, NAT doesn't give a shit about uniqueness and all that jazz. All it cares about is translating the ip/port chosen by the tcp to the one the router uses and that servers can use to talk to us. This saves having external ip addresses for each computer
If the external ip addresses for each computer were different, then it wouldn't need to translate the port number and ip
 
@Maxpm The train looks like it's either stopped or gone incredibly slowly. I could walk/run faster than that.
 
11:06 PM
by the way, your momma's so fat, I can't come up with a joke that adequately describes how fat she is
 
your momma's so fat I used her as a bouncy castle.
Oh yes I forgot, you were ignoring me :)
 
technically, I haven't actually ignored you
you don't appear to be an asshole, just an idiot
so I might refrain from ignoring you for a little extra non-technical company
 
@LewsTherin semi. if there were an external ip for each computer, natted or not, the router wouldn't even have to care about the port. (i've actually set up networks that had a whole /24 externally, and some servers sat behind the nat and had all traffic to a given ip forwarded to them. iirc cisco calls it "static nat", not dynamic.) but since multiple computers typically have to share one ip (or very few), yeah...in that case nat has to translate ports as well as ip's
 
An idiot? Interesting... Well, I didn't claim to be smart anyways ;)
@cHao Apparently it isn't every case. When does it decide to use overloading? Or is it by default
 
Xeo
Opinions on a nonowning_ptr class that holds a raw pointer but essentially does nothing but giving it a nice name? :)
 
11:18 PM
@LewsTherin depends on the router's configuration. if it's an ip<->ip translation, that's static nat. otherwise it's overloading
you can tell a router to do one or the other or both
but if you were to do static nat at home, you'd only be able to have one machine on the network
 
@cHao Oh right, I get you. Because I'm using NAT the router decides to act as the client. And the NAT translates the Client/Port back to what it was before sending. That's all it does. I think I have seen this NAT stuff
@cHao How do you mean? What if I gave them each external address?
 
if you have a home account with multiple ip's, i'd be a bit impressed.
most home plans only give you one. a dynamic one, at that
 
@cHao so a static nat is an ip address assigned by a router to a single machine and only that machine
It won't accept other machines
 
@LewsTherin semi. nat is actually the process of translating between the external and internal ip's. but other than that, sounds about right
 
@Xeo Solid idea.
 
11:25 PM
@cHao mmn ok thanks. It looks like I'll take a bit of getting used to it. Networking is so, blimey fecking difficult.
 
nah...it's not even near as difficult as it first looks
 
I wish I can make my client act as a server, but I guess I need multithreading for that.
@cHao yeah it does :)
 
once certain stuff clicks, it'll all look so much simpler
 
I hope so.. maybe if I was using Java I wouldn't be so confused...
 
no, you'd be more confused :) java hides too much, imo
 
11:30 PM
Yes you would be right, obviously I care about the details, so probably not a good idea.
It took me 3wks to understand Swing
 
i still don't entirely understand it, really...lol...just enough to do simple stuff with it. never really got into using java for gui stuff
 
Well I understand it better way than before. How panes and layout works. I know because I can predict what's going to happen as I write it.
What I am afraid of is the MVC
 
mvc in general is a simple concept. in practice, though, everybody does it a bit different
 
It sounds like it might be useful. I haven't studied it yet.. so I'm not sure. Usually when people say simple, I come up with 1000 ridiculous questions :(
 
heh
 
11:38 PM
yeah that's me lol
I'm trying to change
 
Xeo
11:49 PM
I don't like MVC. It sounds like.. totally the opposite of OOP to me. Maybe I just had it explained badly to me
 
Xeo
11:59 PM
@DeadMG There. Anything I'm missing?
 

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