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12:49 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Mark S
Have you thought about specific $H$ and $H’$ or $G_1$ or $G_2$, in the context of, say, Shor’s algorithm? — Mark S 17 mins ago
 
 
5 hours later…
5:49 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Aman
for the implementation of inverse quantum Fourier transform in qiskit watch youtube.com/watch?v=uuBgK44JrnA&t=2sAman 20 mins ago
 
 
3 hours later…
9:09 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by user2723984
Unfortunately the no cloning theorem is often stated informally and "in words", the precise statement in my opinion is much easier to understand: given a state $|\psi\rangle$ and a blank state $|0\rangle$ independent of $|\psi\rangle$, there exists no unitary $U$ such that $U|\psi\rangle|0\rangle=e^{i\alpha}|\psi\rangle|\psi\rangle$ for some phase $\alpha$. This is clearly not what the CNOT does, as Mariia Mykhailova explains in her answer. — user2723984 2 mins ago
 
9:34 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by user2723984
Thank you, I hadn't thought of the arbitrary phase gates in Shor's algorithm. What I gather is that most algorithm that are usually presented as quantum superpolynomial speed up all require $T$ and Toffoli gates in some form? Out of curiosity, is there some quantum algorithm that was considered a superpolynomial advantage before the Gottesman Knill theorem? — user2723984 10 secs ago
 
9:59 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by DaftWullie
Yes, given that by adding either Toffoli or T to the gate set creates a universal gate set, any algorithm can be expressed in terms of any such universal gate set. And if it has a superpolynomial speedup, it must contain many of those extra elements. As for your second question - I'm not aware of any. — DaftWullie 10 secs ago
 
 
3 hours later…
12:47 PM
@Gemmy quota
 
@g00glen00b Remaining quota is: 9772
 
 
5 hours later…
6:12 PM
@Boson alive
 
Yes, I'm alive
 
@Boson track meta.stackoverflow comments 600
 
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[ Boson ] New comment posted on meta.stackoverflow by Andrew Morton
[ Boson ] New comment posted on meta.stackoverflow by Kevin
[ Boson ] New comment posted on meta.stackoverflow by Samuel Liew
[ Boson ] New comment posted on meta.stackoverflow by Cullub
[ Boson ] New comment posted on meta.stackoverflow by Robert Harvey
[ Boson ] New comment posted on meta.stackoverflow by Robert Harvey
 
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6:16 PM
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[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andrew Morton
Please expand the question to explain why users would gang up on "bearers of bad news". Is it because of the "bearers" or the "bad news"? — Andrew Morton 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kevin
Unfortunately, this likely would not work network-wide. For example, Math.SE has a problem where a user posts an obvious homework question, a well-meaning person answers it, and then the user deletes it before it can be upvoted. — Kevin 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Samuel Liew
My userscript saves your preferred sort option before you hit the search button or press enter stackapps.com/questions/7971/…Samuel Liew ♦ 5 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cullub
Welcome! Thanks for the perspective! — Cullub 8 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Travis J
@RobertHarvey - Fractured meta strikes again. — Travis J just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Sam Hanley
Hi @ChrisM. I recently opened an issue on the BotFramework-Services GitHub, which was swiftly closed with no discussion because of the fact that I have a Stack Overflow question about the same issue. Is it Microsoft's policy that I'm ineligible to report a product bug through official channels if I've also asked the Stack Overflow community for help? I'd appreciate any help in getting this issue in front of the right team. — Sam Hanley 29 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
Already answered here (a very good summary). — Robert Harvey ♦ 53 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@AndrewMorton that's a good feature request to make. Accessibility is important. — George Stocker ♦ 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by David C. Rankin
Well, SO needs to invent such a tool that would be trivial to construct that would identify users who downvote the question and then downvote every single answer below the question. It is a ridiculous situation where someone essentially throws a temper-tantrum because they don't like the question and then summarily downvotes technically correct answers below it. That user has a close vote to use if he doesn't like the question, the fact that they then get to stamp their feet and downvote every answer without penalty just invites more bad behavior. (wait till you are a parent...) — David C. Rankin 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cullub
Mmm good point @Craig. My intent behind that was just to provide a record, but it seems neither an image nor a copy-paste is a great solution for that. — Cullub 3 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andrew Morton
@GeorgeStocker Ta, I'll go and have a look at that chat, but the low contrast does make it difficult for me to read sometimes. — Andrew Morton 4 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Jarrod Dixon
@AAA I'll forward your request to the appropriate team! Also, my comment all those years about "on all pages" was probably in reference to just the pages the tags currently appear on - sorry for any confusion. — Jarrod Dixon ♦ 5 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Craig Meier
After fighting so hard to get newcomers to stop posting images of code, do we really want to come over to meta and suggest the best practice is to post images of comment threads? All the same readability/searchability/accessibility concerns apply. — Craig Meier 7 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@AndrewMorton opinions on that abound; there's an entire chat room devoted to it. chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/196949/… For the purposes of this question we're remarking that it happens, and remarking that we've been told it happens due to non-constructive, unkind, pile-on comments at least in part. We've also empirically seen the same effects. — George Stocker ♦ 10 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by rene
and isn't most of that info already here? — rene just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Travis J
I am finding a hard time sourcing your claim on comment design. That would have been when Atwood was creating this. His design goal was "ensure that chronological ordering is the default, if not the only, sort order, both for replies and comments". In other words, I strongly disagree that they were expected to resemble threads, or the forum format which was often criticized up and down. Moreover, I do not believe that threading is the issue here. — Travis J 39 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by rene
Most of that can be answered with SEDE: data.stackexchange.comrene 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andrew Morton
@GeorgeStocker That chat did not address my concern (the comment for which I deleted in anticipation of useful information), but had a major component regarding "asshole filter". — Andrew Morton 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Tiny Giant
I have yet to see any reasoning for this other than "it doesn't work". It clearly does work and has worked for 10 years. If any other member of the community suggested changing something that has worked for 10 years they would be expected to provide a good argument for the change. Could you please clarify how it "doesn't work" and provide some reasoning to that effect? — Tiny Giant 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@AndrewMorton What is giving you the impression that I'm calling you anything? — George Stocker ♦ 5 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by David C. Rankin
We are not talking about taking downvotes personal. We are talking about the downvotes being abused where someone takes it upon them self, because they don't like the question, or think it should be on another site, to downvote not only the question, but every answer to the question regardless of technical correctness. Akin to a child throwing a temper-tantrum. There is no excuse for such behavior. They are granted a close vote, if 4-others agree, the question will be closed. It damages the community to have users abuse the process to the point it becomes a verb (being "@jww'ed"..) — David C. Rankin 8 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andrew Morton
@GeorgeStocker I read that chat. Are you really calling me an asshole for my previous request for clarification? — Andrew Morton 9 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@TravisJ I did float an idea that meta participation should be limited much like voting is limited in any given day. It's too easy for meta to become the goal. — George Stocker ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by mason
@Ernestas You seem to misunderstand why your post was removed. We've got nothing against helpful content, but we have strict rules regarding exactly what helpful content we want posted here. Asking how to do something very broad or asking for a software recommendation just isn't what we want. That's been decided, and there are very few people in the community that want to open our site up to those questions. I will you well in solving your problems, wherever you choose to get help from. But if you choose to participate here, it needs to be within our rules and guidelines. — mason 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Bergi
@Cullub tldr. Comments should be crisp and short. — Bergi 6 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Travis J
I do agree with the overall tone of your answer though. It will help to drive a more diverse discourse if everyone would start off by posting their own answer instead of comments or commentary. That said, meta itself is a often one massive waste of time, and perhaps we should just endeavor to limit its use. — Travis J 7 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cesar M
@TravisJ there might be some confusion there because I used two different meanings for threads. Thread for the comment is as in a forum thread (not a threaded discussion, it's exactly showing posts in chronological order). Then later on I also mention threaded discussions like Slack has, but Discord doesn't (for example) - I am not claiming that the lack of threading is the issue, but rather a concern that arises when people talk comments vs answers. — Cesar M ♦ 7 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Brock Adams
@Kevin, I've seen that on SO too. Still, I'm conflicted because the site was better off with the questions deleted anyway. (Otherwise, I would've lobbied for undeletion, etc.) — Brock Adams 8 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Travis J
The reason that migrating comments to chat generally disrupts the current discussion in comments is that it can only be done once. So instead of sending future comments to chat, it just sends a snapshot there and then the discussion continues. A simple fix would be to lock comments once the migration occurred (only on meta). As far as current efficiency, it is there, it just requires a decent amount of reading, and most users on meta at this point are rather quick readers. — Travis J 9 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@AndrewMorton I'm geniunely confused. I've searched that room for occurrences of that word and they appear to be a particular user's opinion related to a theory that user has (that user isn't me and I see no need to bring their name up in the context of this comment). How from all that are you concluding that I am calling you that name? — George Stocker ♦ 10 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by wim
@SamuelLiew Thanks, I like your scripts and have several of them installed already. If stackoverflow (the company) had any sense, they should just employ you (or contract) to improve the basic usability of the UI directly. — wim 10 mins ago
 
6:55 PM
@Boson track meta.stackoverflow comments 200 -r 197298
 
Unknown chat host. Use one of STACK_OVERFLOW or STACK_EXCHANGE
 
@Boson track meta.stackoverflow comments 200 -r 197298 --HOST STACK_OVERFLOW
 
usage: track [-d [{HIGGS}]]
             [-f [{REPUTATION,LENGTH,USER_ID,POST_ID,CONTAINS,TAG,BURNED_TAG,HEAT_DETECTOR} [{REPUTATION,LENGTH,USER_ID,POST_ID,CONTAINS,TAG,BURNED_TAG,HEAT_DETECTOR} ...]]]
             [-h] [-n [NAME]] [-p [{ONE_BOX,LIST_TAGS,HEAT_DETECTOR}]]
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track: error: unrecognized arguments: '--HOST'
[ Boson ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@mason the entire proposal came about due to uncivil comments. That's literally why we posted it. And as I've said elsewhere: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/387883/…George Stocker ♦ 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
Text borrowed from Academia. Hopefully, this provides a good starting point. — Robert Harvey ♦ 4 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by mason
@GeorgeStocker That's an unfair characterization of the argument. No one is arguing for less civility or to drop those standards. But we are worried about simply negative opinions being removed (even if they aren't ad hominem). Which seems to be happening, even in this very Meta question. Of course, I think you know that, and your next move will be to ask me to provide a link to said comments, even though you know I can't provide them because they're gone. Then I'll respond that I can't and we need more oversight of mods, to which you won't reply. — mason 4 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by George Stocker
That's a bit of a leap @AndrewMorton. Do you normally wonder if people you just met call you a non-repeatable name? Regardless, the people in that chat room debated a few things: 1) whether it was the 'bearer' or the 'bad news' that was the issue; and they came to their own opinions on the matter. The chatroom spans several days so I'm impressed you were able to read it as quickly as you were. I don't agree with their conclusions; but that's a story for another day. — George Stocker ♦ 5 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andrew Morton
@GeorgeStocker I asked about the two components of "bearers of bad news". Nothing I can see in that chat is related to that, so I can only assume you were directing me to something there. I don't know you, so I would look for anything other than name-calling before thinking that, especially of a moderator. Am I missing some context around that chat? — Andrew Morton 8 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Brock Adams
Yes, the API is not well suited for this, making the current version of the question a bit of an "XY problem". — Brock Adams 9 mins ago
 
@Boson track meta.stackoverflow comments 200 -r 197298 --host STACK_OVERFLOW
 
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[ Boson ] New comment posted by GrumpyCrouton
@RobertHarvey as a 3rd party who simply read the conversation, you posted "you first" as a response to Servy asking for your reasoning why you believe chat to be a better fit for these comments, Servy responded to your message in a productive way (listing several reasons he believes the opposite). You started this comment chain with Servy, telling him to explain himself before you do, then you never fulfill your side of the communication once he does what you asked. Then somehow it's Servy who isn't being productive? Deleting your comment doesn't change how unproductive it was when posted. — GrumpyCrouton 4 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Erin B
I actually looked to do that first, but users with my reputation can't do that. — Erin B 4 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Machavity
There's a deeper issue here. There was this tweet about this edit, which is apparently no longer OK to decline. I would have picked "No Improvement" myself, but still declined it. Is this now SO policy that gendered code is not welcoming? Is declining edits that "fixes" genders also unwelcoming? — Machavity 8 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andrew Morton
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cullub
This is really good information, but I'm not sure it answers the question as asked: What's the standard on which comments are moved to chat?Cullub 9 mins ago
 
7:08 PM
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track meta.stackoverflow comments 200 -r 197298 --host STACK_OVERFLOW -p ONE_BOX
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I may have broke boson
@Boson -h
@Boson track meta.stackoverflow comments --room 197298 --host STACK_OVERFLOW --name SOCOMMENTS --printer ONE_BOX
 
usage: track [-d [{HIGGS}]]
             [-f [{REPUTATION,LENGTH,USER_ID,POST_ID,CONTAINS,TAG,BURNED_TAG,HEAT_DETECTOR} [{REPUTATION,LENGTH,USER_ID,POST_ID,CONTAINS,TAG,BURNED_TAG,HEAT_DETECTOR} ...]]]
             [-h] [-n [NAME]] [-p [{ONE_BOX,LIST_TAGS,HEAT_DETECTOR}]]
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7:18 PM
@Boson track meta.stackoverflow comments 300 -r 197298 -h STACK_OVERFLOW -n SOCOMMENTS -p ONE_BOX
 
usage: track [-d [{HIGGS}]]
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             [-h] [-n [NAME]] [-p [{ONE_BOX,LIST_TAGS,HEAT_DETECTOR}]]
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Argument Parser for the bot.

positional arguments:
  sitename               Site where the bot has to be run
 
@Boson track meta.stackoverflow comments -r 197298 --host STACK_OVERFLOW -n SOCOMMENTS -p ONE_BOX
 
usage: track [-d [{HIGGS}]]
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             [-h] [-n [NAME]] [-p [{ONE_BOX,LIST_TAGS,HEAT_DETECTOR}]]
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track: error: too few arguments
 
@Boson track meta.stackoverflow comments 300 -r 197298 --host STACK_OVERFLOW -n SOCOMMENTS -p ONE_BOX
Magisch
@Boson track meta.stackoverflow comments 600 -r 197298 --host STACK_OVERFLOW -n SOCOMMENTS -p ONE_BOX
@Boson track meta.stackoverflow comments 600 -r 197298 --host STACK_OVERFLOW -n SOCOMMENTS -p ONE_BOX
@BhargavRao seems like the boson cmd isn't working
did I crash it or does it have to do with gallery room? I gave write access
 
7:34 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by IntegrateThis
Ah I see now I was confusing dimension with number of qubits required to represent something. As a side question, is there a discussion anywhere of how to implement this transformation alongside the fliter functions since it is now different than a strict controlled rotation. I.e. How is $g(\tilde{\lambda_j})|ill \rangle$ achieved (gates and such)? — IntegrateThis 4 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by satya
Is it safe to say the following? Every CPTP operator on $n$ qubits is equivalent to applying a unitary operation on $n+k$ qubits (for some $k \geq 0$ ancilla bits) and then tracing out the $k$ ancilla bits? — satya 4 mins ago
 
7:59 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by satya
I am asking this because, I know every unitary operator can be realized in a quantum system. I wanted to know if every CPTP operator can actually be realized on a quantum system. — satya 21 mins ago
 
8:14 PM
@Boson alive
 
Yes, I'm alive
 
@Boson track meta.stackoverflow comments 600 -r 197298 -t STACK_OVERFLOW -n SOCOMMENTS -p ONE_BOX
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[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
Now, if hitting the rep cap got turned into bounties however.... — Martijn Pieters ♦ 7 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
George also said that, "as long as your comment is constructive, on topic, not an extended discussion, and civil, it's going to stay around (with very few exceptions)." I read "extended discussions" as lengthy discourse that doesn't really add anything substantial or relevant to the topic of the post. — Robert Harvey ♦ 49 secs ago
 
@Boson stop DDXENM9ZR7
 
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
Fun story: the largest sock network I ever detected and cleaned up consisted of 165 socks. The network had grown so large because their master had been ever so careful at trying to avoid detection. By the time I cleaned everything up they had been working on the sock network for 3 months. They managed to gain 4000 points from their activities, including a few bounties (all gone when we were done, and the user suspended). 4K is a pittance, put the same work into answering and you can make 30k legitimately in the same time. — Martijn Pieters ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by zero298
Comments being moved to chat: "It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard`". — zero298 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jpp
@DenysSéguret, Bounty rings already happen. People in the same tag giving 500-rep bounties to each other in turn. If it's noticed, but the posts are of high quality and the bounty-givers/takers are otherwise reputable (not necessarily equals high reputation), then the community usually turns a blind eye. Net the ring benefits from increased visibility, which usually means upvotes. — jpp 3 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
@mason: The "reason to purge all comments," in its entirety, unedited and unredacted: "Comments should be purged when they have degraded into pointless bickering and / or noise, and the entire set is unsalvageable. Otherwise, selectively delete comments."Robert Harvey ♦ 4 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yvette Colomb
@avivgood3 it's common for people to cross paths in tags they frequent, it doesn't mean the person is being targeted. rene has a good reputation on the site for doing the right thing — Yvette Colomb ♦ 4 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
This is not that unlikely actually. As moderators we deal with sockpuppets all the time and the damage they do if undetected for a while is at least fairly limited. With the rep cap turned into bounties however.... — Martijn Pieters ♦ 7 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
@TravisJ: Yes, and a known one at that. Suggestion box here. — Robert Harvey ♦ 7 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by mason
@RobertHarvey I fail to see how that's a straw man. This "extended discussion" clause in George's first comment says that if a conversation grows too large, it will get removed. And conversations grow large when people have something to stay and start engaging. — mason 8 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Travis J
"new comments that would deserve being moved to chat will instead be deleted without warning" is a rather significant design flaw. — Travis J 10 mins ago
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8:18 PM
@Boson track meta.stackoverflow comments 600 -p ONE_BOX -r 197298 -t STACK_OVERFLOW
@Boson list
 
QuantumComputing_Comments
 
@Magisch, not sure what's wrong ... I don't have access to the machine now, as it is in office ... I'll check it tomorrow and let you know. Anyway, it must be tracking in this room.
@Boson track meta.stackoverflow comments 600 -n SOCOMMENTS -p ONE_BOX
 
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[ Boson ] New comment posted by mason
...and therefore a candidate for deletion. And that's what I take issue with, because that's expanding that definition too much, and I don't want moderators removing those useful conversations. Like was done in the comments on this question. — mason 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
@Shepmaster that’s exactly what that sock ring did. They did so to gain enough rep to vote for the master account content and to keep from being question banned. But if they votes just a little more then they hit free bounty land! — Martijn Pieters ♦ 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Shepmaster
@MartijnPieters is the implication that a large sock puppet ring would all upvote each other, exceeding each member's rep cap, then use the "bonus bounties" to funnel all the rep to one user? — Shepmaster 3 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by mason
You're saying that "extended discussions" that don't add anything to the topic of the post. I think you and I have very different ideas of what that means. For example, if someone posts a joke in a single comment that's only very tangentially related to the post, then we tend to leave it. But if dozens of comments start feeding off that one, then I would consider that an extended discussion. And I have seen you remove that in the past. What is being proposed in Madara's thread, and I believe George is echoing, is that anything past a few comments that goes back in forth is "extended". — mason 3 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
Now, if hitting the rep cap got turned into bounties however.... — Martijn Pieters ♦ 6 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
George also said that, "as long as your comment is constructive, on topic, not an extended discussion, and civil, it's going to stay around (with very few exceptions)." I read "extended discussions" as lengthy discourse that doesn't really add anything substantial or relevant to the topic of the post.Robert Harvey ♦ 7 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
Fun story: the largest sock network I ever detected and cleaned up consisted of 165 socks. The network had grown so large because their master had been ever so careful at trying to avoid detection. By the time I cleaned everything up they had been working on the sock network for 3 months. They managed to gain 4000 points from their activities, including a few bounties (all gone when we were done, and the user suspended). 4K is a pittance, put the same work into answering and you can make 30k legitimately in the same time. — Martijn Pieters ♦ 8 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by zero298
Comments being moved to chat: "It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard`". — zero298 9 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jpp
@DenysSéguret, Bounty rings already happen. People in the same tag giving 500-rep bounties to each other in turn. If it's noticed, but the posts are of high quality and the bounty-givers/takers are otherwise reputable (not necessarily equals high reputation), then the community usually turns a blind eye. Net the ring benefits from increased visibility, which usually means upvotes. — jpp 10 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
@mason: The "reason to purge all comments," in its entirety, unedited and unredacted: "Comments should be purged when they have degraded into pointless bickering and / or noise, and the entire set is unsalvageable. Otherwise, selectively delete comments."Robert Harvey ♦ 11 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yvette Colomb
[ Boson ] New comment posted by user2723984
@satya yes, what you're describing is called Stinespring dilation, and it's always possible with a CPTP map — user2723984 20 mins ago
 
The room thing doesn't seem to work then
 
[ Boson ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@mason Robert is correct on what it means. — George Stocker ♦ 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cypher
The trainwreck of comments on this post are exactly what the poster is complaining about. — Cypher 3 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jww
"... take a more active role in outright removing derailing, snarky, and non-constructive comments" - That could be a slippery slope. Most of the problems here are due to Stack Overflow management, and their inability to identify and fix problems. Deleting comments that call out management for the problems they cause is sticking your head in the sand. It is a top-down failure, and you need to fix management first. Case in point: "Staff, and sometimes moderators, are reluctant to go on meta...". — jww 4 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by zero298
But it's not as easy to find a purchase path on the questions page also "Products" doesn't get highlighted on the question page. — zero298 6 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by AAA
@JarrodDixon, thank you so much. I appreciate your attitude. God bless you. — AAA 7 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
What Kendra said. Not just because they're answers in the question, but because it's unclear to me how your suggestions would help. — Robert Harvey ♦ 8 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cypher
Staff members are afraid of coming here. Regular users are afraid of coming here. Dealing with the public is hard. Can't do it? Don't. — Cypher 9 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kendra
Perhaps move your suggested feature requests to their own answers? This way, the answers will all be proposals for fixes, and the question will just be... Well, "What do you propose for fixes?" I feel it might flow/feel a bit smoother myself. — Kendra 10 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
@mason: I chose the two comment examples I did for this post, because I consider them highly illustrative of the problem with meta in general, which is how to encourage people to stay focused on the problem and not get mired in tangentials. — Robert Harvey ♦ 11 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Erin B
@JonClements Ah, I must've missed that option. Good to know! Thanks! — Erin B 58 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kevin B
There are quite in-depth extensions for both firefox and chrome that implement a dark mode, with additional features, specifically for chat. — Kevin B 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Jon Clements
@ErinB you may not be able to close vote... but you can still flag the post and select "should be closed" and then the reason why which'll put the post in review for others to decide whether to cast their close votes on it — Jon Clements ♦ 3 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by mason
@GeorgeStocker Sure, but there's a lot of wiggle room in "doesn't really add anything substantial or relevant to the topic of the post". And judging by the way you gentleman have been deleting comments that I feel are substantial and relevant, I don't trust your judgement anymore. And the lack of oversight capabilities has me doubly worried. — mason 5 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
"Instead of saying "No, but", say "Yes, and"" That doesn't really fly if you fundamentally disagree, though. — Cerbrus 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Mari-Lou A
@DavyM that I can't expect that the official 0.015% statistic is excluding them. Is it official? Or is it a concerned/disgruntled employer's statistic that was hotpotched in order to argue in favour of banning for life certain users or closing down meta.SO temporarily, or was there a proposal to eliminate "Hot on Meta", a sort of ultimatum if you will and what you have is a compromise. Who knows what happens behind closed doors? I can but only speculate! — Mari-Lou A 3 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andrew Morton
@KevinB What would I have had to search for to discover that, please? — Andrew Morton 8 mins ago
 
hm
 
@Boson track meta.stackoverflow comments 600 -p ONE_BOX -r 54445 -t STACK_EXCHANGE
Welp. Guess it's hitting some issue
@Boson track workplace comments 600 -f HEAT_DETECTOR -v 5 -p HEAT_DETECTOR -n workplace_heat_detector -r 54445 -t STACK_EXCHANGE
Hmm, yeah.. there's some issue
I'll check tomorrow morning when I'm in office
Sorry bout that :(
 
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cindy Meister
@Don'tPanic I think you're right... :-) — Cindy Meister 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Braiam
@opa its not more off topic that his off hand comment. I'm commenting on his comment, and if his stays, mine as a direct response to his remarks should also stay. — Braiam 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Troyen
Were the "You are posting along the lines..." and "Your comment on an answer or question would be a valid answer..." lines supposed to be part of the bullet list? The quote seems to have broken the list formatting. — Troyen 3 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andreas
@rtpHarry You all have so much time invested and rep that this is now a different experience for you. I had about the same rep points as you about a year ago and you have been a member about twice as long as I have. It's all about keep going. If you start getting frustrated at the little things then it will only hinder you. — Andreas 7 mins ago
 
aight, np
 
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
"We do not have so many <...> make sure they come back for future edits." One could argue that, if all they do is change gendered text in code, then there's nothing being improved. Edits that don't improve posts have historically been discouraged. This answer is based on the assertion that the edits improve the post. That's debatable. — Cerbrus 8 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kevin B
"SO Dark Chat +" is the name in chrome, i expect the firefox one to be the same (it's a port of the chrome one, with a few added features iirc) — Kevin B 9 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
No. It's not a forum, it's chat. — Cerbrus 3 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
@Troyen: Thanks. — Robert Harvey ♦ 7 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
We could just delete any answer with a cumulative score of -3 or less and nobody would realize it. Why concentrating on code only answers? — Trilarion 7 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by opa
@Braiam How were his initial comments offtopic? He was literally responding to George Stocker... — opa 9 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
So, someone makes an "inclusivity" edit, it gets rejected, then pings a Product Manager on twitter about it? I mean, I get that the edit may have value to some, but I also get why reviewers rejected it... But to take that to twitter, resulting in this meta question being revived again? Seems excessive. The editor should've just flagged the post the edit was submitted on. That's standard procedure for edits that were rejected while they (arguably) shouldn't have. — Cerbrus 10 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by bhapi
Thank you for succinctly answering all my questions :) — bhapi 21 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
"Moderators can move comments to chat only once. After this, they can only delete comments." This seems like a technical limitation, that maybe doesn't need to exist. Why not attaching posts to an existing chat. In any case, it might mean, one should not move comments to chat too early, otherwise the only option left is deletion. — Trilarion 4 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
"They have to draw a line somewhere. There is a huge grey area when it comes to moving to chat, in particular when a discussion slowly digresses." I guess that's what this question asks. As it is, this part is a bit unsatisfying. — Trilarion 7 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
Yes and no. I don't really see the need for threading, especially since you can reply to specific chat messages. That said, I'm strongly of the opinion that comments are deleted or moved way too easily. — Cerbrus 7 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andrew Morton
@Cerbrus In that case, is the traditional chat format unsuitable for the purpose that the entity named chat here is used for? It has been found that comments are not suitable, and their format is linear like chat. — Andrew Morton 9 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andrew Morton
@KevinB Thanks. The name is SO Dark Chat Plus for Firefox users. Strangely, there is still something that makes it uncomfortable for me to read, even magnified, perhaps it's Verdana. — Andrew Morton 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Modus Tollens
So now I even have to read comments in chat and here for this question in particular? And keep up with the sequence? This is already annoying. — Modus Tollens 3 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makoto
@Cerbrus: Yes, that workflow is horribly broken. Someone should start a conversation about it. — Makoto 6 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe
Related, if not a duplicate: meta.stackoverflow.com/q/386505/6296561Zoe 7 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
I guess what is underlying all these specific points is simply "why moving comments to chat?". If you know the why, the how to do that exactly should kind of follow from it. — Trilarion 9 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by cnada
@Fernando Well if you are really concerned with off-elements, you can add a penalty term on them, trying to drive them towards 0. — cnada 3 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kevin B
I've been using chat for... a long time. I can't see how making it threaded would make anything more clear, because if it were, and you replied to something from an hour ago... that... "thread" wouldn't be in the active portion of the room, it'd be in the past assuming the room was decently active. It's not reddit, you aren't presented with the entire transcript at once for you to scroll through/expand. — Kevin B just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
It seems there is not much change here anymore. Should we maybe proceed and somehow make a system go up and running? Or should implementation / details be clarified first? — Trilarion 52 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe
Why not something similar to Slack? — Zoe 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@mason if there wasn’t any ambiguity we could outsource it to an algorithm. — George Stocker ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
If there's a page wort of other messages, is there really a point in replying to that earlier chat message? If so, wouldn't it be better to create a room for that specific discussion? — Cerbrus 7 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
@ErnodeWeerd "you know what the problem is and you no longer need to post a question" That's not true. The question is of course how to solve the problem. Knowing the problem doesn't imply knowing the solution. Knowing the problem is necessary but not sufficient for debugging. — Trilarion 7 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andrew Morton
@Cerbrus Yes, you can reply to a specific message, but that reply becomes intertwined with all the other messages. Give it a gap of a page's worth of other messages, and how easy is it to follow the thread of that conversation? Unless there's some setting in chat that I haven't found that separates it out (like threading would). — Andrew Morton 8 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andrew Morton
@KevinB I had the impression that comments on meta can be a problem because there are a lot of them on some posts, with some leading down unproductive avenues complaining about new SO implementation details. If those paths could be isolated in their own threads, then people who don't want to go there could easily not expand that thread, or have it deleted. Most meta posts don't have that problem, but some problems must be dealt with. — Andrew Morton just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Jon Clements
If it's the post I think it is then the entire content of the post was I want to start learn c++, now I saw a lot of suggestions for books about learning c++ but I am not fan of books and I prefer to learn it throw a online course with videos and lectures. anyone can help me in what order and names of courses can I take to master c++?... and it was closed for 5/6 days with a reason saying why: ""Questions asking us to recommend or find a book, tool, software library, tutorial or other off-site resource are off-topic" and how to make it on topic... that never happened - it got deleted. — Jon Clements ♦ 23 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by StoryTeller
We can only speculate. But from the title alone, it already sounds primarily opinion-based, and so off-topic according to the help center. — StoryTeller 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Mari-Lou A
Converted my comment into an answer! :) In these times of oppression we must stand up for our values! And so I shal delete it. You are free to leave a comment beneath the answer :) — Mari-Lou A 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@mari-LouA does it matter? The two choices are: accept the edit and life goes on as normal for everyone involved, or reject the edit, and alienate a new contributor, cause an uproar, and have nothing to show for it but that we are insular and unwelcoming to new contributors. If your goal is a thriving and healthy community, you accept the edit, say thank you, and continue on about your day. If your goal is to be “right” and not care how that affects the larger community, then reject it. — George Stocker ♦ 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Davy M
@Trilaion A proposal was given a while ago to add a roomba rule for less than -6 scored answers, and their arguments are the same I would give as to why that's not a good idea. — Davy M 4 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
A question can't just be deleted, it has to be closed first. Unless a moderator deleted it, but that doesn't seem very likely. Do you have a link to the question, or the friend's account? It may have been better for him to post this question... Any way, we can't tell you what happened, if we can't see what it happened to. — Cerbrus 4 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kevin B
iunno. i think i'd find that annoying, having a conversation happening half a page up from where the active chat is happening — Kevin B 6 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
But look at us having a constructive discussion here, and it's not even in chat! — Cerbrus 8 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe
@KevinB the topic is threading. Slack has a single-level nesting feature. I don't see much of a use for multi-level threading, but I see some cases where single-level threading can be useful, especially for separating topics in a busy chatroom — Zoe 8 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
@AndrewMorton nobody finds chatrooms about questions or answers from the chat interface, any way. — Cerbrus 9 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kevin B
If it's too distracting for multiple conversations to be happening at once, it's trivial to make a new room. — Kevin B 10 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andrew Morton
@Cerbrus If there are points A, B, and C to be addressed from a post, and each of those posts generates ideas 1, 2, and 3, the explosion in chat rooms would do a good job of hiding the whole lot. (I think the comments being deleted too easily discussion has been quashed already, by SO policy.) — Andrew Morton 11 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kevin B
like, slack's rooms? we have that, rooms. — Kevin B 12 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
@GrumpyCrouton Is the script from balpha, a former SO employee? At least someone in the company realized that comments can be improved. — Trilarion 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Marco13
@Makoto Does "broken" refer to the intended workflow, or the one that can be observed in this example? Whether the edit was "appropriate" in any way ... that's beyond the scope of these comments. Regardless of that: Twitter is used as nothing more and nothing less than a political (and I'd even say ideological) weapon here. The rules for editing are stated at stackoverflow.com/help/privileges/edit . There is no need to respond to such a tweet in such an apologetic tone. — Marco13 2 mins ago
 
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