24 messages found


Aug 12, 2019 13:11
@Magisch Eh, I wasn't necessarily arguing for reopening with that previous comment. Since George now seems to view this question as a hostile act not worth engaging with (despite having asked us to ask a new question about it after l4mpi raised this exact topic at chat.stackoverflow.com/…), I don't think it's ever going to be constructive. I just felt the need to defend my own honour, because I am frustrated that people - especially George - are accusing me of needlessly starting fights when I in fact posted this on his explicit orders. — Mark Amery 1 min ago
Aug 5, 2019 20:01
FWIW, you can also list all the comments on a post by searching for its post ID. For example, here are the comments on your post. — Andrew T. 18 secs ago
Aug 5, 2019 14:45
@GeorgeStocker So, to clarify, you flatly refuse to engage in a discussion about your seemingly sporadic deletion of comments unless posted as a new Meta question? — Ethan Field 1 min ago
Aug 5, 2019 14:45
@EthanField I've seen plenty of personal attacks leveled at George. Honestly if this discussion keeps being derailed to be about George I will be shutting it down. It has nothing to do with the question! — Yvette Colomb ♦ 1 min ago
Aug 5, 2019 14:43
@EthanField What better way to tie someone down to their position then ask a question on a topic where their answer appears on the front page of meta, in their profile, appears in Google in a search, and can be voted up and down by the community? If your goal is to 'tie someone down' to their position; answers win hands down on comments which are barely findable unless you'd love scrolling through (checks my user profile) 44 pages of my comments. — George Stocker ♦ 1 min ago
Aug 5, 2019 14:41
@GeorgeStocker For what it's worth, I have every intention of posting a Meta question - when I have the time to do so. I have a job, and cannot drop everything else I am doing at your every whim to immediately obey your arbitrary and unexplained instructions. Also, you have told me to do that exactly once here, not "repeatedly", unless you count the cryptic mockery of me in your first comment here. I resent the false claims and accusation of bad faith. — Mark Amery 1 min ago
Aug 5, 2019 14:41
@GeorgeStocker I've seen nothing but people trying to actually interact with you in a genuine and meaningful way and would challenge you to find a single comment from someone who is only arguing for argument's sake and isn't being constructive. The other thing I've seen is that you seem to be deleting your own comments and moving on instead of actually standing and conversing with someone. At this point, it feels like your total disregard for taking part in honest, open discussions with members of a community that elected you is something we should open a question about, simply to tie you down — Ethan Field 1 min ago
Aug 5, 2019 14:37
There are a few people who love to debate in the comments and after repeatedly trying to engage with them I've come to realize they love the fight more than the goal, and as such am stepping away from interacting with these individuals in comments. I've repeatedly said how to get the interaction they desire (by posting a meta question on the topic they wish to get viewpoints on), and they elect not to do it. 🤷‍♂️ — George Stocker ♦ 1 min ago
Aug 5, 2019 14:03
@GeorgeStocker Oh, and the comment I just replied to is already gone. Nice. How's that for a waste of everybodys time? — l4mpi 1 min ago
Aug 5, 2019 14:01
@GeorgeStocker I can't post a question about your comment because you deleted it. Regarding the "happy to answer" part, I asked you to write an answer a week ago, maybe start there. To the best of my knowledge I've also not quoted you out of context. And I'm not fond of starting a meta-discussion about the worth of your time (we covered that topic before) - you seem to have a lot of time for pushing your views but not for acknowledging valid arguments against your points. Feel free to point me to counterexamples. — l4mpi 29 secs ago
Aug 5, 2019 13:49
@GeorgeStocker Why not take your own advice? If you'd like to reply to this answer, please ask a new Meta question. — Houseman 2 mins ago
Aug 5, 2019 13:45
@l4mpi I've always said comments are ephemeral post-it notes. If you want to talk about a topic and make your viewpoint last, post a question about the view point, send me a link to it, and I'll be happy to answer. Responding to the same three or four people in comments is not a productive return on my time; especially when I've already been: 1) quoted without context, 2) been told by you that you don't believe the words coming out of my mouth. What is the benefit of responding when that's the tack the same three or four people are taking? — George Stocker ♦ 1 min ago
Aug 5, 2019 13:37
@MarkAmery If you'd like to have this discussion, feel free to post a meta question about the issue and I'd be happy to explain it. Doing so in a comment where it's only locally significant and only findable by people who happen to stumble across this answer and read all of its associated comments is not a productive return on the time spent explaining it. — George Stocker ♦ 2 mins ago
Aug 5, 2019 13:31
@GeorgeStocker Am I to infer from that edit that you think this entire point is so unimportant as to not be worth discussing? — Mark Amery 58 secs ago
Aug 5, 2019 13:25
@GeorgeStocker you deleted one of your comments here again, after your argument in it was deconstructed by Mark. I think that's an extremely dishonest way of participating in a discussion, especially because throughout this whole debate I did not ever see you acknowledge that anybody made a valid point against your views. You simply retreat from that specific discussion by deleting your posts and then start again somewhere else with the same old arguments. At this point I'm pretty much convinced that it doesn't even matter what we say. — l4mpi 1 min ago
Aug 5, 2019 13:19
@MarkAmery I updated the post to include the full quote of what I said. That last sentence is especially relevant to your action to post it as an answer. — George Stocker ♦ 19 secs ago
Aug 5, 2019 13:15
@l4mpi the typical interpretation is not "remove hot meta -> reduce stress", it's "remove hot meta -> atrophy meta -> reduce stress". And the comment purge is another step of an abstraction away, "they want to atrophy meta -> we want to keep meta relevant -> I'm George" — Andras Deak 1 min ago
Aug 5, 2019 12:39
@AndrasDeak ok, panic attacks then. Doesn't change that it was a bad reason for removing HMQ and is a worse reason for starting a comment purge. — l4mpi 1 min ago
Aug 5, 2019 12:29
@l4mpi I don't remember anybody saying anything about PTSD. With all the baggage sorrounding the mental state of SO employees I'd rather we didn't propagate further fodder for rumour and arguments by paraphrasing. The exact wording was "panic attacks". — Andras Deak 2 mins ago
Aug 5, 2019 12:13
@MarkAmery if you remember how all this change came about (SE employees having PTSD about meta critique), reducing visibility seems to be the goal here. And where have we heard that "optimize for the many" crap before? Not that I buy the argument for a second that any of Georges proposed changes are an optimization for anything or anyone... — l4mpi 1 min ago
Aug 5, 2019 10:53
@GeorgeStocker I think the exact opposite of what you've just asserted is true. A critique is more visible to "the many" if it appears directly underneath the thing being critiqued, rather than the critiques being on entirely different pages that you just have to hope you'll miraculously stumble across. (And ordinary readers will be poorly served if they stumble across the critique, too, since it's only interesting in the context of the original debate.) You shouldn't have to hope to luckily stumble across posts in the right order in order to see a coherent discussion. — Mark Amery 1 min ago
Aug 5, 2019 10:45
instead of a locally useful comment that will undoubtedly be resasked in a comment by others, why not a question where we can give reasons one time and link back to it other times. It also has the benefit of being really public so people outside of that direct conversation may give input, links to where this has been discussed, vote up and vote down and it can be found for all time. Comments optimize for the few over the many. We want to optimize for the many. — George Stocker ♦ 13 secs ago
Aug 5, 2019 10:39
@GeorgeStocker To the extent that I'm asking questions here, they are all rhetorical. As for the idea of posting this as a question, do you really mean to suggest that the proper way to discuss whether there's value in allowing users to appeal comment deletion or whether comment authors should instead just repost their deleted comments as answers (which is the context of this post; other readers, could you tell?) is to post an entirely new Meta question countering your viewpoint on that one issue instead of keeping the discussion in a single place? — Mark Amery 55 secs ago
Aug 5, 2019 10:27
this looks like you’re asking a question about why Stack overflow prefers answers over comments. Did you mean to ask a new meta question instead? 😁 — George Stocker ♦ 13 secs ago

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