Conversation started Apr 25, 2019 at 20:44.
Apr 25, 2019 20:44
> Whether at least two non-requesting*, non-RO SOCVR members, providing clear and objective reasoning that a -pls request uses incorrect/inaccurate reasons--barring a logical/reasoned explanation for the choice by the requestor*--qualifies said request for being manually binned by an RO (who should obviously agree with said consensus).
> This means a total of three users (two normal and one RO) should agree explicitly (the two normal users by saying something, and the RO by binning) that the request is wrong/incorrect.
Sorry in advance for the length of this one... when I drew it up I didn't realize there was a prior FAQ. This would essentially allow non-ROs to play a part in a wrong request
I'm not fan of hyperactive binning, but three yay-votes seems pretty damning.
I think the current faq approach is the right one. These are edge cases anyway, and it will boil down to the RO agreeing with the current situation and the proposed situation anyway
I'd distinguish between "please explain yourself" from "definitely invalid request", too.
I'm no the fence about whether this would mean Ros would no longer have carte blanche on the final verdict
Apr 25, 2019 20:47
I'm for reducing the binnings below the current rates (one RO's opinion makes it go bye-bye = bad).
Too many words
ROs will always have a final verdict. That's a major reason we're here. Eventually you need someone to make the final call either way
FWIW I want to say I have noticed that ROs typically tend to hold off on when room members point out a wrong request
rather than weighing in and binning a request
which seems problematic, to me.
There's not that much harm in keeping invalid requests slightly too long
The idea here would be that the room could influence a RO to bin something
Apr 25, 2019 20:48
@JohnDvorak Requests get binned very rarely, other than those where the requestor asks for it to be binned. It's probably well below 1%.
@TylerH We don't always weigh in publically. Sometimes having a RO jump in adds too much (for lack of a better term) gravity
@JohnDvorak I have seen at least two cases (one yesterday and one that prompted this proposal) where a blatantly wrong cv-pls request caused a question to be wrongly closed, so I would say there is indeed some harm
I think RO's are held accountable when things go wrong in the current situation as well, and it doesn't go wrong. We shouldn't really go fixing imaginary problems imo
@TylerH It is a bit like an NAA flag you raise for a mod. I'm not an SME on all the cv-pls I see
Speaking of which, I really appreciate the "as requested by original requester" note in binnings, BTW
Apr 25, 2019 20:49
@Machavity Sure, I acknowledge that, of course, and like rene said, not every subject is one ROs are knowledgeable in
IIRC, though, these were subject-agnostic cases
I tend to prefer convincing the OP that they should request the bin themselves
^ that's my preference too.
@Machavity you think that has a high response rate?
@TylerH At least give OP the chance to reply before you trash their request
@TylerH at least for me it has.
Apr 25, 2019 20:50
@TylerH High? Maybe not. But I have seen it at work. We regularly discuss CVs and we ping the OP as needed
oh I'm misunderstanding what OP means here
I read OP to mean "the person who asked the question on Main"
not the person who made the request
Oh, sorry. I mean the OP of the CV
ah
Well the issue there is, on both cases I mentioned previously, the requestor refused to acknowledge any error/mishandling
I'd be surprised if anyone protested against trashing a request to close their question
@TylerH then I'd rather it not be trashed
But then again, three votes is three votes
Apr 25, 2019 20:52
@JohnDvorak even if it's definitively and demonstrably wrong?
I'm fine with a three-vote system.
I'm not opposed to appealing to an RO when something is seriously deficient. We do have rules and you can already ping us when they're violated
5 minute warning
@Machavity to be fair, I don't think a RO was pinged directly in either of the cases I referenced (though at least one was active in the room at the times...)
Three votes, and even then only start voting after it's clear you can't convince the OR?
Apr 25, 2019 20:53
@JohnDvorak I'd agree w/ that
To be clear: 3 room voters agree with a bin request, then ping a RO to request a bin?
Note: we only have 3 minutes left for this topic. Please make any final arguments. We need to get some resolution soon to keep on track.
Two regulars + RO
But if you want to go stricter... be my guest :P
the RO has to agree, right?
@rene Well, yes, obviously
if they don't agree why would they bin the request
Apr 25, 2019 20:55
just checking
@TylerH finger guns
Alright, final wording them
FWIW the topic on GitHub specifies 3 total (2 regulars + RO)
What happens if 2 people agree it should stay (disregarding the requester) and 2 people vote against?
My earlier comment was not meant to be flippant. We don't want the FAQ/rules to become biblical in length. If there is to be a new policy it needs to be concise.
Apr 25, 2019 20:56
@NathanOliver tie goes to the RO?
@NathanOliver Good point
Ah, I vote for a difference of two votes
hopefully we wont have two people defending a blatantly wrong CV-pls reason...
Or do votes subtract so it's now at 0?
@Makyen suddenly we need more than 3 minutes...
Apr 25, 2019 20:56
I'd like a difference of votes to be 2, if it arises.
OK we need to wrap this up. Do we have a consensus?
Difference of 2 + RO
works for me
If two people agree with a bin request, they ping an RO and leave it up to that RO's discretion. RO is free to disagree
same
Apr 25, 2019 20:57
Any you must have pinged the original requestor asking for their input.
@Machavity yep
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Votes are stars next to message, right? Does that mean the RO will need to total the stars for binning, and total the stars for the original request, and net them out?
 
Conversation ended Apr 25, 2019 at 20:58.