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12:10 AM
hi everybody
any one here?
 
 
2 hours later…
2:33 AM
@Raynos a
 
3:27 AM
0
Q: jQuery autocomplete plugin

BetamosOver the last months I have been writing a jQuery plugin called Better Autocomplete. It originated from another project, a Drupal module called Linkit, but I decided it should be a standalone plugin. I have spent a lot of time refactoring the code, mainly to make it more generic and flexible for ...

 
 
3 hours later…
6:40 AM
3 years ago Ben Meyer created Arora, the 1st WebKit browser for Linux. He's retiring from it now but deserves big thanks http://goo.gl/ewvao
 
 
2 hours later…
8:40 AM
hi everybody
i just wanna know what good blogs or sites for javascript news and special articles???
hi everybody
 
9:22 AM
I'd love to get some feedback on bitbucket.org/balpha/lyfe, if anyone feels like having a look
2
 
@balpha I'll have a detailed look later on. What are the generators based on? I don't really use python / ruby or generators in other languages.
 
they idea is pretty equivalent in Python, C#, and probably more. JavaScript 1.7 also has them, but it's going to be a while until we can use that in all browsers.
looks like this in python:
and like this with my project:
 
honestly, don't you almost get an orgasm looking at Python code? :D
 
and C#, while we're at it: pastebin.com/SKU5Hzv2
 
10:04 AM
@balpha Also mozilla javascript versions are propietory
JavaScript versions are hard coupled to Mozilla js engine just like JScript versions are.
There is only ES3 and ES5
 
true, but chances are that sooner or later, other browsers (and eventually ECMA) adopt some of their stuff
 
But JavaScript 1.7 and 1.8 have added a lot pythonizations in.
I doubt there coming into ES.
 
well, more reasons for my project to exist ;)
 
:)
Never mind.
 
Anyone know of a Q&A widget using JSON / JQuery or anything related that can be used during Live web broadcasts for people watching online to post commments, these comments can then be read by a moderator and pushed to the presenter live?
 
10:12 AM
google has something like that
I don't know if it's public
 
@balpha you may want to look into levering underscore or ES5 shim into the code.
 
I can't find anything on google
 
"Google moderator" or something like that?
 
hmm
ok ill have a look
not quite what I'm after
it needs to be live and update as comments come in with the ability to push comments to a user
 
@Raynos the only thing I'd really need that for is the Array.indexOf stuff, right?
 
10:16 AM
@balpha the lack of second key parameter is going to get annoying. Even if it's not needed, just matching up the API Array.prototype.map and Array.prototype.forEach
 
hmm, valid point. Not that I'm a big fan of that parameter...
 
Yeah, it's not needed but I really appreciated API similarity.
 
I take it no-one can help me then?
 
I dont know an out of the box tool to do it.
I can hack something together to solve that specific problem in a couple of days
 
i take it that would cost me?
 
@balpha and reduce, filter, etc
 
yep
 
I really don't like the Exception handling to break the generator
 
there's no other way
we're trying to emulate coroutines
(well, sort of)
 
Can't you just return an object to break on?
 
10:31 AM
and write if (this.yield(13) == "stop") return; everytime? That defeats the whole purpose of seamlessly using yield
 
Yes, you need something clever
Might want to look at using array methods directly for the Array and Object parameters rather then tunneling through the function
 
0
Q: JAVA Criteria for language evaluation

ian drizwhy java is good in terms of 1.expressibilit 2. well-definedness 3. data types and sturcture 4. modularity 5. input-output facilities 6. portability 7. effciency 8.pedagogy 9. generality

 
Also it might be worthwhile to feature detect for webworkers and lever those for potential infinite generators and then theres asynchronous support
 
Not sure I want to go there; I'd like to stay close to the semantics in other languages. May be worth a thought, but I'm not excited...
re proxying the Array methods directly: yeah, that can be looked at. That's optimization though; I'm not at that point yet :)
 
@balpha Other browsers have stopped implementing stuff straight from Mozilla now that ES4 is dead. Mozilla has stopped making new stuff up, too.
@Raynos generators are in Harmony
 
10:44 AM
Specifically harmony generators
It's defiantly worthwhile to try and match your API with that proposal which is likely to be in ES:next. Also sandboxing in web workers is worth doing since you can just leave an infinite generator running in the background and consuming results asynchronously.
 
It's impossible to match the API. You can either have Generators (i.e. yield) or Iterators (i.e. next); both at the same time isn't possible without coroutines, and those, first and foremost, require syntax change.
 
RT @maboa: RT @ssethi Google Docs Tests Offline Support, Powered by HTML5 http://j.mp/mIJPCw
RT @maboa: A great way to find out what your browser is capable of : http://modernizr.github.com/Modernizr/test/index.html (via @paul_irish)
 
11:02 AM
@balpha match was the wrong word. Emulate in the ES:next style rather then emulate the python style
 
http://caniuse.com/#search=notifications ain't pretty :( lobby yer favorite browser vendor to add support for the Web Notifications feature!
 
 
2 hours later…
1:07 PM
JIT inlining of a function is faster then .bind
 
... except for IE
 
Yes
except IE9
but then again IE6-8 are slower with bind because it's emulated
Havnt tested saf or opera
0
A: Resources that turns a javascript developer into a great javascript developer ?

RaynosThe JavaScript Garden is a brief introduction to most of the quirks of JavaScript. It's a warm-up for the task ahead. Read the EcmaScript 5 Specification. All of it. Now develop a polished web application or website build entirely on node.js HTML5 CSS3 DOM3 ES5. Don't use any libraries. ...

Is it actually productive / unproductive to recommend people read the ES5 spec
 
RT @annevk: Since I am back the WHATWG Weekly is too: http://t.co/ct1ioF6 #feedbackappreciated
 
@Raynos bind is slow. It's surprisingly hard to make fast.
 
@gsnedders it's not that bind is slow I think
Its more that simple function like that get inlined by the JIT.
in IE9 the JIT doesn't inline functions so native bind is fast
 
1:21 PM
@Raynos Look up Ollie's comments on bind in JSC.
 
I keep forgetting I should take your word for things.
You dont need to be told obvouis things like JIT inlining functions is fast
 
@Raynos I may not often make performance claims myself, but I can point you at others. :P
 
But as a serious question should we recommend reading the ES5 people to non-js nerds
Is it productive for js developers
I feel the kinds of people who would read it are already reading it so it's kind of redundant.
 
@Raynos I'm not sure it's worthwhile. The notation will probably confuse quite a few people.
 
 
1 hour later…
2:35 PM
hi all
 
Hi @Neal
 
hows it goin?
 
Not bad, not bad
 
good good
 
Disadvantages to freelancing: resizing and reformatting 2 gazillion images so they don't hog bandwidth; because I don't have someone who can do it for me. </timeconsuming>
 
2:49 PM
@ThomasShields ...
you know there are tools for that right?
Write a cron, run a cron. Problem solved.
 
@Raynos I don't know how.
Plus, i have to save it to PNG, and they're originally JPG. I know how PNG works, but i'm not skilled enough to write a program working with it.
 
@Raynos I've found bound functions to be significantly slower than non-bound functions across all major browsers.
 
@AndyE apart from IE9
@ThomasShields there are tools like Graphicmagick
 
@Raynos free?
nvmind, found it.
That looks interesting. Won't need it now (almost done) but i'll check it out. thanks!
 
@Raynos: I don't quite remember my IE9 test results (and can't find the jsperf test now), but I believe bound functions still weren't as fast as using a closure.
Actually I may be wrong on that. IE9's JS engine continues to impress.
 
3:07 PM
Why does debugging JS in IE suck so hard?
 
@Raynos IE9 certainly does do inlining
 
@ThomasShields if you use Adoboe photoshop you can mass process whole directories of images to do things like you said. they even have a built in feature that creates a "website" out of your images and creates a very lame image gallery. however i'm pretty sure it creates nice thumbs for all of the images
 
@ChrisMarisic cool! unfortunately, all I have is some crappy 10 year old "Photoshop Elements 4" that barely runs. Good to know, though.
 
this might not be the best place to ask since this isn't exactly a design room but i guess it's one of closest here on SO
 
@gsnedders @AndyE closure wins
@RyanKinal you mean debugging in IE<9
 
3:13 PM
so what do you do when you interview a web designer?
 
@ChrisMarisic i didn't actually ask; i was just complaining. :)
 
@Raynos Yeah, that
 
I don't interview web designers, I design for myself. :)
 
when I hire C# developers its easy, i make them do fizzbuzz to prove they understand wtf code is, and then i have them all talk about design of systems to prove they can solve software problems
 
@ChrisMarisic what do you want? A web designer, a web designer/developer hybrid, a web developer?
Do you want someone that can design or someone that can code
 
3:14 PM
not to mention i have a long list of discussion points to figure out a persons strength or weaknesses
 
do they need to know html/css/js
 
not code, i have plenty of code
 
do they need to know cms / blogging engines like joomla/wordpress
do they need to know templating engines of choice.
Do they need to graphic design, logos, photos, art work etc
 
I'm a strange hybrid of stupid kid/designer/developer/guy-who-thinks-he-knows-something ... :)
 
html/css absolutely, leet js skills would be a giant plus
but alot of that falls into programming also
this position is all about front end user interface design (using html/css)
for js skills I'd expect more in lines of knowledge of dom manipulation, how to do lightboxing, write your own lightbox etc
 
3:18 PM
take one particular website and ask the applicant to point good and bad
 
@ChrisMarisic are you actually looking for somebody or just hypothetical
@DmitriyNaumov that's a great idea.
 
gotta have a teste on design and usibility
 
truly hiring, however i've never actually interviewed a designer before
 
@Thomas: thanks
 
@ChrisMarisic i think there's a question about this on UX.SE ...half a sec
2
Q: hiring a web designer: design task

I need to hire a web designer. How do I test his creativity and skills before I hire him. Ideally I'd like to give him a fairly open-ended task i.e. I give him a problem statement and ask him to design a PSD file. Any suggestions on the problem statement I might give him? Also, is there a bette...

 
3:20 PM
and @DmitriyNaumov I agree that is a great idea, since that will really help convey their real understandings and feelings of design
 
@ChrisMarisic well knowledge of HTML/CSS is easy to question.
UI design and graphic design of a site is a different ball game.
portfolio should help a lot.
 
great point @Raynos
 
One thing I would recommend is to get him to tell you the good and bad parts of one of his portfolio sites in terms of how the design was done well/badly.
If he can talk you through what he's done on his work and why then you'll have some confedence.
 
my other thoughts would be how to gauge a person's personal ability
vs their ability to buy something from themeforest
 
@ChrisMarisic depends what you value.
Do you want someone that makes it with html/css from scratch
or do you expect them to use a CMS thingie (joomla/wordpress)
 
3:23 PM
definitely not using wordpress etc
 
Give them a task and a whiteboard.
 
ask to give you a visual explanation
and then get them to walk you through how everything is done using html & css
bonus points for him levering html5 & css3
in a progressive enhancement kind of way.
triple points for him enhancing html with css, and enhancing html/css with javascript.
What a good task to gauge skill in an interview is, is beyond my judgement.
 
i really understand where you're going with that @Raynos
haha
i was just about to say I'm not really sure what I'd ask to be able to convey that
 
@Raynos lemme guess: quadruple bonus points for using Node.JS? :P
 
3:25 PM
Oh and points * 10 for having an accessibility plan for the blind
 
lmao that would almost @ThomasShields that would almost be a negative to me
 
@ChrisMarisic hehe
 
@ChrisMarisic node.js is the best >_>
 
a person that uses node.js is much more of a software developer
 
But that's completely unrelated
 
3:27 PM
also points if he'll explain how to use firebug or chrome-developer-tools
 
@ChrisMarisic a front end developer using node.js is more likely to set up a simple back end and focus on front end heavy stuff.
 
@ChrisMarisic most importantly, a good principle of design is better than rad HTML/CSS/JS skills. Just because you can doesn't mean you should ...gamequarium.com
 
Extra points for mentioning how he doesn't use dreamweaver as his IDE.
 
@Raynos: :))
 
3:28 PM
You need to tailor the task to what you want him to do for your company
 
i was at MIX 2011 and in one of the UX sessions they had a great website
that looked completely off the wall
 
It varies widely if it's a online bank, an intranet site, a gaming site, a public portfolio, an artist site.
 
i remembered it lemme google it
 
Your more likely to be able to assess if his UX and design is good when you have him talk about a website style your familiar with.
It's hard to judge good/bad websites outside your sector
 
3:31 PM
@ChrisMarisic if you've got time, watch Robbie Ingebretsen's "Design Fundamentals for Developers" and see how many of Robbie's key points your applicant hits upon.
@ChrisMarisic my eyes!
 
haha i know
look past the design scheme and look at the site itself, it has like all of the things a good website should have
 
that's gotta be one of the worst designs i've ever seen
yes, that's true.
 
My eyes.
@ChrisMarisic I am sueing you for two new eyes.
 
hello guys
I need help
 
3:41 PM
Agh!
 
on syntax
 
Fire away. If I can't figure it out (which will probably be the case), someone else will.
 
@Raynos hello
 
@Oddantfr it better be something good ¬_¬
 
what does that mean str ^= 215
.
?
 
3:45 PM
@Oddantfr: How could we possibly know without knowing what str is?
 
is that the bitwise or?
 
str is just a common string
put everything you want Tomalak :)
 
@Oddantfr: Then it means "not very much"
 
well my question is what ^= mean
 
is that XOR?
it could be really shitty encryption?
XOR rotation like ROT13?
 
3:47 PM
bitwise XOR
 
@Oddantfr: It's a bitwise XOR operation. See it working here.
 
its str = str (BITWISE XOR) 215
 
I can be more specific
 
and it's bloody black magic
 
@Oddantfr: Note that it actually works on numbers; your str must happen to be numeric. Poor name.
 
3:47 PM
stupid magic numbers
 
@Oddantfr: A quick look at your Javascript reference would have explained this in a heartbeat; where is it?
 
@Oddantfr: That is not a Javascript reference.
 
what do you mean ?
 
3:49 PM
Go buy yourself this Javascript reference book‌​, and don't write any more Javascript until you have it in your hands.
 
user1385191
v5, not v6 if you can
 
so i think i'm right
really shitty encryption
 
user1385191
oh, that's a different book
 
@MattMcDonald is v6 bad?
 
please I don't want to buy a book right now
 
3:50 PM
((value XOR Y) XOR Y) = value
 
just achieving the mission
 
user1385191
I was referring to js: the definitive guide
 
@Oddantfr: Why not? Are you not sufficiently committed to learning Javascript?
@Oddantfr: If that is your attitude, then you will fail.
 
thanks for your cheer up
 
@Oddantfr: No problem!
 
3:51 PM
truth is truth
 
Buying a book is crucial. It also stops you from pissing people off by asking lots of really basic questions :)
 
so your answer is "buy a book and shut the fuck up" ?
 
user1385191
having read js: the definitive guide (v5), I can tell you that all the information is available via MDC
 
@DmitriyNaumov @ThomasShields @Raynos thank you all for your input on hiring a designer you guys definitely put me much more in the right direction
 
user1385191
it will inform you about legacy code that should be interesting if you care about browser scripting
 
3:55 PM
@Oddantfr If your question is "what is this Javascript operator?", yes.
You must have a Javascript reference book. Simple as.
@MattMcDonald what was wrong with v6?
 
user1385191
I don't like that a JS book covers jQuery
 
user1385191
I feel that's unnecessary
 
that is just a silly answer to an easy task
 
user1385191
sillier than all the table-related DOM questions that avoid table methods for HTML strings?
 
user1385191
because I see dozens of those a day
 
3:59 PM
also i realized that that answer had nothing to do with the OPs question at all lol
@MattMcDonald what do you mean?
 
user1385191
HTMLTableElement.insertRow(index); vs. table.innerHTML += "<tr></tr>";
 
@MattMcDonald ehhh ive never seen that 1st one before
 
user1385191
read up on table methods + properties + collections in the DOM
 
user1385191
they're very powerful and have lots of support
 
4:02 PM
that to me looks like an implementation detail of a library
@MattMcDonald and that code like that should be superseded by a unified DSL for working with elements and that it's up to the library to know when it should call that vs something else for doing the raw element apending
 
user1385191
what?
 
i shouldn't have to code something like HTMLTableElement.insertRow(index); vs. table.innerHTML += "<tr></tr>";
i should have like
$(#mylist).additem("...")
$(#mytable).additem("...")
that should be an implementation detail of AddItem how it physically mutates the html
 
@TomalakGeretkal tbh knowledge of binary XOR is not basic. It's an obscure thing which doesn't really have a place in js.
Why would you want to bit manipulate in js, it's just silly.
 
@Raynos Regardless, the meaning of operators is covered in a basic language reference.
 
@Raynos i'm telling you i bet that's being used for encryption
 
user1385191
4:06 PM
bitwise operators tend to be used for shorthand math
 
@TomalakGeretkal yes but learning from websites is a valid thing to do and it's easy to forget about bitwise operators
 
@Raynos I disagree. Learning from websites leads to fail.
 
Especially in cases like ~~x where it's a hackish shorthand for Math.floor
 
@MattMcDonald that's true it theoretically could be some kind of strange multiplication or rotation etc
 
huh ?
 
user1385191
4:06 PM
MDC + MSDN have been far more helpful to me than books
 
@Matt +1
and I bet I can beat you on javascript comprehension, except for that bitwise unknown operator
:p
 
user1385191
beat who?
 
@Tomalak
:P
 
@Oddantfr you don't know who you're messing with.
 
@TomalakGeretkal there is enough information in the MDC & MSDN to handle javascript and the DOM.
 
4:08 PM
haha
 
@Matt: OK, I would count MDC as a book. ;) I wouldn't trust MSDN as far as I can throw it. I guess I'm talking about the vast majority of reference websites (e.g. w3schools) and, as a general rule, a newbie isn't going to know whether a website is good or not. So, recommending "websites" as reference isn't wise. Instead, a specific book (or, yes, a specific site) can be recommended.
 
I don't disagree that anyone should have a langauge reference
it just doesnt need to be a physical book
 
user1385191
MSDN is far better than people give credit to
 
Certainly learning from crappy "tuts" and not bothering with a reference at all is failfailfail
 
JavaScript garden, MDC & MSDN are solid references
 
user1385191
4:09 PM
it documents a fair bit of IE bugs
 
I also tell people to read the ES5 spec
 
@Matt: I've seen it exhibit a few.
 
You want a reference. that's a reference.
 
@Raynos Aye ;)
 
@TomalakGeretkal for figuring out why IE6 does something stupid msdn is actually quite useful
Also reading about propietory extensions in IE6 you need to use to emulate HTML5 is useful (MSDN)
 
user1385191
4:11 PM
Nearly all of the books about JavaScript are quite awful. They contain errors, poor examples, and promote bad practices. Important features of the language are often explained poorly, or left out entirely. I have reviewed dozens of JavaScript books, and I can only recommend one: JavaScript: The Definitive Guide (5th Edition) by David Flanagan. (Attention authors: If you have written a good one, please send me a review copy.)
 
user1385191
(via Crockford)
 
I agree.
 
user1385191
I know the c.l.j. guys aren't big fans of it, but it's still a somewhat useful book
 
5th/6th edition and the good parts.
 
A Javascript reference book is not the same as a Javascript [tutorial] book.
 
4:12 PM
Those are the books you should read.
 
user1385191
yes, agreed
 
Also I don't recognise Crockford's automatic, complete authority (though I don't disagree with that quote)
 
user1385191
Crockford to me has no resonance with browser scripting and the DOM
 
user1385191
but in terms of the language itself, I listen to what he has to say
 
I'm simply not familiar with him [yet].
 
4:15 PM
javascript book reference or just chitchat. If you need to learn javascript just find yourself tutorials and try them all even if there are corrupted, making errors is part of training and understanding a language
 
user1385191
js tutorials suck
 
user1385191
dive into documentation instead and play on your own
 
that was the meaning anyway
 
see what I mean
 
what documentation do you recommand @Matt ?
 
4:17 PM
making errors is not the same as being taught errors
Javascript "tutorials" are to be avoided
Why not read everything said over the past fifteen minutes, @Oddantfr? You've been here.
 
yes but many references up there
if I gotta retain only one book
what would it be ?
 
user1385191
skip the book
 
user1385191
save a local copy of this: jibbering.com/faq
 
nice ;)
thanks
 
A FAQ is not a reference
 
4:22 PM
how's that ?
there are so many references in this faq
 
user1385191
that page is bar none, the best resource for JS on the net
 
I'm not sure you know what a reference is. That's sad.
 
user1385191
it's a portal, not a reference
 
user1385191
it links to references
 
Yes, exactly.
 
4:24 PM
;)
 
was able to order that JS book for $9 shipped, shipping cost almost as much as book
 
( I know this is has nothing to do with js but someone can tell me if he encounters troubles to access amazon.com, the contain of the page is retrieving but the style seems to be unloaded, i want to make sure this is not only my computer )
 
i had no issues and literally just bought the book
hold ctrl + refresh
or shift, or alt
one of them does a hard refresh purging your cache, most weirdness is from a css file not realizing it needs a new one
 
user1385191
ctrl + f5 is a hard refresh, as well as shift + refresh button (windows)
 
user1385191
shift + refresh works on osx as well
 
4:31 PM
it doesn't seem to work, at least thanks for your aknowledgment
 
@Oddantfr no. tutorials are bad. Only reputable tutorials are good.
 
user1385191
the shame is many very knowledgeable JS/DOM people refuse to write tutorials
 
user1385191
so you end up with schmucks writing them
 
RT @kangax: "Break on style change" finally makes it to webkit (so soon in Chrome) — http://goo.gl/Frv9U Very helpful. Can't wait.
RT @slightlylate: Introducing Non-Admin Chrome Frame: http://blog.chromium.org/2011/06/introducing-non-admin-chrome-frame.html
 
@MattMcDonald lol it's because we're probably too busy doing real work instead of having entire days of ass in seat time for no purpose
 
user1385191
4:40 PM
most of my time spent on SO is at work
 
why would you be on PC when not at work >.<
 
@TomalakGeretkal lol most of my day is front of a monitor or hdtv, everyday
occasionally i do stuff outside, but outside isn't climate controlled haha
 
@ChrisMarisic do you get pain in your back ?
 
no i take ergonomics very seriously
and make sure to move around and stretch etc semi-frequently
 
user1385191
4:54 PM
0
Q: Fairly easy JQuery Input Selection location problem

EricI am having a problem with getting my JQuery javascript code to apply to the select box elements that it is supposed to. What's happening is that the select boxes are not following the actions that are specified in the javascript code. They are simply staying disabled and checked (see code below)...

 
user1385191
boy, this looks like fun
 
user1385191
the html 4.01 spec says end tags on the input element are forbidden
 
as opposed to self closing?
 
user1385191
self-closing is xhtml
 
yes
 
user1385191
4:58 PM
regular HTML just omits an end tag
 
guess i'll need to remember that for some point, all of my doctypes are xhtml currently
 
and enclosed quotations for attributes' value can be ommited
 

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