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9:00 PM
@user633658 Hey, Fuck you too
asshole
 
@DeadMG Ha, downvoted that once.
 
@TonyTheLion Hahaha
 
@user633658 Dafuq?
 
Xeo
Can you just get the fuck out now, please?
 
Were you dropped too many times on your head when you were a child?
 
Xeo
9:01 PM
Guys, smile and flag, smile and flag...
 
done that
 
I hate flagging, but yeah. This is getting out of hand.
Where's @Boltclock when you need him, hmm?
 
Xeo
Yeah, where are our smurf pets. :<
 
Flexo should save us.
HE HAS THE POWER NOW.
 
Xeo
@Flexo's even in this room!
 
9:02 PM
@Shog9 where are you?
 
CALL THE ARMY
 
@TonyTheLion huh?
 
CALL THE NAVY
 
Xeo
A CALL TO THE SMURFS!
 
Roll in the tanks
 
9:02 PM
Guys, you sound like children.
 
@Shog9 trolls
 
@Shog9 Please ban that fuckface user633658 for a nice long time.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes But smurfs!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It was fun. :c
 
Xeo
9:03 PM
@Shog9 Summoning successful.
 
"Mommy, that kid hurt me!"
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Definitely.
But that @user633658 doesn't answer quickly enough to be easily trollable.
> This user has been automatically suspended for posting inappropriate content and cannot chat for 58 minutes.
Oh.
 
Xeo
2 flags got confirmed
 
> This user has been automatically suspended for posting inappropriate content and cannot chat for 1 hour 28 minutes.
tis done
 
Xeo
make that three
 
9:04 PM
o_O
Wow.
It worked.
 
yup
 
Shog9 will now be a summon in Alf Pilgrim vs. The Mods.
 
Xeo
lol
 
Y'all don't really need mods when you have this many active, high-rep users in the room
 
9:05 PM
seems so
 
Xeo
@Shog9 That was just for the added benefit of drama.
 
DON'T PANIC.
That kind of thing.
 
@Shog9 Are you saying rep is useful?
 
9:05 PM
lol
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Bitches love rep.
2
 
Xeo
Just look at the puppy and all his rep.
 
<---- repwhore
 
repwhore
|
|
v
 
9:06 PM
@Xeo You also have 50k :)
 
Rep's like those little tickets you get for spending real money at the arcade - it's way too expensive if you look at it rationally, but as long as you're in the arcade anyway...
7
 
have a star :)
smurf made it to the starboard :)
 
@Shog9 I don't know what you're talking about, but yeah, that's exactly it.
 
repwhore: every fuckin' direction
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Repwhores abound. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [no-helpdesk]
 
9:08 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Only thing that I remember being for sale was tokens. So I guess rational people go spend time at the arcane without playing?
 
The Repwhore Exclusion Principle states that no two repwhores can occupy the same rep simultaneously.
10
 
user142019
@DeadMG oh my I want.
 
@DeadMG Repwhores are provably bosons. No stars for you.
 
9:09 PM
stop ... and star me, bitches
 
...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Wanker.
 
user142019
 
@Mysticial Just on time!
 
also
proof or no dice.
 
9:09 PM
@DeadMG, happy?
 
user142019
Proper ellipsis I win.
 
Rep masturbation
 
What does this make me?
 
@LucDanton Did I miss something?
 
Xeo
@Zoidberg Meaning I can pass you any argument there and you will silently accept it? :)
 
9:10 PM
@Pawnguy7, a nice little newb :P
 
Not at all.
 
user142019
@Xeo no no it's in different font!
 
Sounds good ;)
 
@Pawnguy7, the sad thing is that you probably know more things than me
 
@Jueecy what is that assumption based on?
 
user142019
9:11 PM
I'm a repper.
 
@Pawnguy7, I earned all that rep by keep answering a very common question on the PHP tag for over an year.
 
@Xeo sorry only just noticed
 
Xeo
@Flexo Don't start slacking off right in your first week, now.
:)
 
@Jueecy a very common "question"? As in, only one question?
 
9:12 PM
hey
 
haven't actually used my new powers in chat yet, other than viewing deleted stuff
 
does that mean we have another pet moderator? we'll need to get a fucking kennel at this rate
 
@Pawnguy7, yeah kinda. PDO related question (databases in PHP).
 
BoltCock, Shog9 and Flexo fetching when we throw.
 
user142019
9:13 PM
Speaking of throwing…
 
@Pawnguy7, or just easy "How can I fix this error" questions.
 
user142019
I should check out Boost.Exception.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You're over 50k.
 
@Jueecy ah. Then again, somebody needs to have practical knowledge of PHP's 450 some functions. Nice that their is documentation, though.
 
@LucDanton ?
 
9:14 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes You're admitting to being a repwhore.
 
user142019
@Pawnguy7 PHP documentation is bad.
 
user142019
It mixes a lot of terminology making it very confusing.
 
@Pawnguy7 Their doc sucks.
 
user142019
And many useful details are missing.
 
9:15 PM
@Zoidberg It was probably written by different people, at different times.
Lots of different people.
 
@Zoidberg, really? never felt this confused in 5 years of learning PHP
I shouldn't have said that here...
 
PHP - 'nuff said
 
There we go
 
user142019
For example: php.net/var_dump.
 
user142019
> Dumps information about a variable
 
user142019
9:15 PM
> This function displays structured information about one or more expressions that includes its type and value.
 
user142019
Yeah so what the fuck do you want. A variable or any expression. You never know, since say, empty() only works on variables.
 
Oh. I have only seen a bit. I was a bit confused by the brackets in paremeters... hm. I heard, don't know this, that their is a good community. Still, then your knowledge is even moreso needed.
 
:8271717, dat explanation
 
user142019
> Parameters: expression: The variable you want to dump.
 
user142019
LOLOLOLOLOL
 
9:18 PM
lolololol
> We can all agree that var_dump(); output is very spartan looking.
lol
 
Why is it said that you should use four spaces, but if you use a tab, have it 8?
 
come on @isocpp, make more with the new paper announcements.
 
@Pawnguy7 It's not.
 
9:20 PM

The Great Indentation War

Fight to the death here.
 
@ScottW the comments are in Russian?
 
Gotta love @Feeds for keeping the room alive.
 
#define sei ( )
 
user142019
> //MSTR - в режим Master
 
user142019
lolwat
 
9:20 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I was just gonna say, Feeds has been having a ball in there
@ScottW code
 
1 message moved to PHP
3
I'm so evil.
 
unlike, say, myself, who is God because by definition.
 
@Jueecy are you implying self-learned is bad? I got everything I have from that thus far.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes, yes. you. are.
 
My point is, there are black sheep in every family.
 
9:22 PM
@Pawnguy7, that's pretty bad. I tell you from my experience.
 
lol
 
I think the PHP chat room is pretty nice as a community.
 
@Jueecy what else do you learn from?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oooooh shiiit.
 
in PHP, 35 secs ago, by NikiC
@R.MartinhoFernandes Not sure why you moved this here...
lol
 
9:24 PM
@Pawnguy7, good books I guess. I'm learning C++ at university right now and I love how they explain it. I tried to self teach me C++ back three years ago and it was just like "Yeah I got it. Let's try this script. * 36 compiler errors in 5 lines *. Ok fuck this shit."
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I laughed so hard, now people think im going crazy
 
@Jueecy It just means that you are bad, not that self-learning is bad ;)
 
@TonyTheLion It's a standard technique to keep low-traffic rooms alive (rooms freeze after 14 days of inactivity): get Feeds to post questions from some tag, and it will keep it going on.
 
@Jueecy I hardly think C++ counts as script, but I get what you mean. I have also read several books: I think that is still self-learning. Similarly, good articles online, tutorial series, etc. Trying things by myself. One programming course I took was in VB.net: the instructor knew less than I did, I am still convinced.
@Jueecy if books are not self-learning, what IS?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think it's mostly going to be ignored, but I'm patiently waiting for good results.
Should I star it?
 
9:27 PM
@Jueecy C++ at university is pathetic and worthless.
 
@NikiC, yeah well I was coming from PHP and the first thing I've tried was something along the lines of int a[5] = {0, 1, 2, 3, 4 }; int b[5] = a;.
 
they don't teach any real C++.
 
Sep 1 '12 at 16:27, by R. Martinho Fernandes
I think I had my dosage of fun while I was chewing down on those 18k errors the other day.
Amateur.
 
@Pawnguy7 Yeah you are right, but I mean that self learning on the internet is bad. I miswrote it there.
@DeadMG Don't you think it depends?
 
9:28 PM
Who cares? My head still hurts.
 
@Jueecy I have seen many C++ course materials from a few universities, and they all sucked horrifically.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Go to sleep/drink something/take painkiller.
 
@DeadMG, because of...?
 
@DeadMG I had some tea.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Va te coucher!
 
Having learned mostly from the internet but having also attended several years of university training, I think that both can be great and both can be terrible.
 
user142019
9:29 PM
@Jueecy not modern C++.
 
Painkillers are for pussies.
 
@Jueecy I would agree, quality books are often better sources: however, I don't think it is all that bad: in fact, I would argue that the self-learner is better than the university learner. Shows dedication,among other things. I feel like starting at university, you would be swamped.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I spent the afternoon sleeping (called in sick today; I got a cold, hence my complaining about the yo-yo weather earlier).
 
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes Either take painkiller or don't whine about pain.
 
@Jueecy Typically, they teach either C-style shit (global variables up the wazoo for example) or Java-style inheritance and dynamic allocation whoring.
 
9:29 PM
@Zoidberg Whining about pain is for pussies.
Wait.
 
@Zoidberg, the last chapter of our course was about C++11 and the upcoming features.
 
Xeo
Btw puppy, which proposals did you submit in the end? All of them?
 
four
Unicode, Thunk, Hash, and Allocator.
although I cocked up the Allocator and left off an important part.
 
@DeadMG, yeah we have had that type of course. We have the OOProgramming with C++ course now and it's really not that bad. Where did you learned anyway?
 
9:31 PM
@Jueecy, do you have an example of what learning online was bad quality for you? I have been pretty fortunate thus far.
 
@Jueecy Here, give or take.
 
New paper: N3547, Three -related Proposals&#8212;Walter Brown http://bit.ly/Xb2lVf
hahaha
 
Xeo
Fail
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes entity fail
 
Great, chat oneboxing HTML-entitises it.
@NikiC And the original was "Three <random>-related Proposals—Walter Brown".
Whole meal of fail right there.
 
9:32 PM
@Pawnguy7, I can't without having another compromising message being moved to PHP again.
 
Shows that C++ folk has no idea what they're doing when it comes to the web :)
 
user142019
@CatPlusPlus C#
 
I started "programming" with HTML actually.
 
user142019
@NikiC s/C\+\+/C#/
 
@NikiC Well, the entity fail is by Stack Overflow.
 
user142019
9:33 PM
Chat's written in C#.
 
user1182183
@Pawnguy7 me with PAWN
 
I think some HTML tuturials have problems, but it is difficult due to differing browser support.
 
user142019
No.
 
yeah, the browser compatibility problem is really bad for web applications
 
user142019
@Pawnguy7 There is one and only one HTML standard.
 
user1182183
9:34 PM
@DeadMG so true, so sad ;/
 
@DeadMG hihi
 
user142019
And that describes the only correct way to interpret HTML.
 
@GamErix Erm, so sarcastic...
You fail.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes What?
 
@Zoidberg correct: but it does not exist unless a browser impliments it.
 
user142019
9:35 PM
Of course it does.
 
Several tuturials teach, say, by way of IE hacks or other... unsettling things.
 
user142019
Even if there are no browsers, there is still an HTML specification.
 
holy shit, Walter Brown published a fuckload of papers.
 
Or, for example, the presentation first, structure later style.
 
@DeadMG Oh, I thought you were making a joke. (the original could not have been serious)
 
user142019
9:35 PM
And tutorials should conform to that specification, and optionally add side notes about browser support.
 
@Zoidberg And still nobody follows it!
 
IE just sucked a lot in web standard. That's what I remember from writing CSS.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Huh, why? The entity's there in the tweet already
 
Should unfortunately has not applied to some I have seen.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes No, just a very brief brainfart.
 
user142019
9:36 PM
@Pawnguy7 IE hacks are not standard and therefore irrelevant.
 
@DeadMG, seriously? just here? no university? no nothing?
 
@Zoidberg that was an example. But some, say, STILL teach to use <center>
 
Education sucks at teaching
 
@Jueecy I went to university, but I didn't learn anything I hadn't already picked up myself here.
 
user142019
@Pawnguy7 Depends on the HTML version.
 
user142019
9:37 PM
If they teach HTML 4 then it's fine. :P
 
@NikiC AFAICS the tweet contains &#8212;, which renders as an em dash. The Stack Overflow onebox turns that into &amp;#8212;, which ends badly.
 
user142019
Nah, nevermind.
 
user142019
They should't except for completeness.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I have &#8212; on the Twitter page.
 
user142019
(Morons are going to use it anyway even though it's been told a thousand times they must use CSS.)
 
9:37 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I see &#8212; in the tweet (i.e. plainly visible)
 
Anyone's got a cool text-based sad face?
 
@NikiC Timeline renders it correctly.
@EtiennedeMartel :(
 
user142019
@EtiennedeMartel :c
 
@isocpp
ISO C++ standards committee - ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG21
194 tweets, 3k followers, following 0 users
 
9:38 PM
:sadface:
 
check the last few tweets
 
@NikiC But yeah, the individual tweet page is broken.
Weird.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's too generic.
@Zoidberg Got anything?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes So then it's a Twitter fail then ^^
 
user142019
9:39 PM
@EtiennedeMartel T_T
 
user142019
;_; <(;;,)>
 
Well, it DOES work in html4, but I don't think it should be taught, along with font, for example.
 
user142019
Whatever, HTML is bad anyway.
 
Some teach things like <p>Paragraph, and don't close it...
I hate the javascript DOM more.
 
user142019
9:40 PM
@DeadMG hmm "<random>".
 
user142019
Tumblr also fails when using <…> anywhere.
 
user142019
It's terrible.
 
… is a really shitty character really
 
A coworker today mentioned that not being able to rely on the actual size in bytes of primitive types is a real missing feature in C++, what do you guys think?
 
user142019
I have to escape it as &lt;…> but then it renders as literally an ampersand and …> on other places.
 
9:41 PM
a newline character but displayed as an ellipsis...
 
user142019
@NikiC you are shitty.
 
user142019
@NikiC wat.
 
user142019
It's not a newline character.
 
user142019
It's an ellipsis.
 
user142019
This is a newline character:
.
 
9:42 PM
@TonyTheLion Irrelevant; just use uint8_t and friends. Fixed-size primitives directly would be nice, but the relevant types are provided as Standard.
 
@DeadMG hey I will mention that to him
 
@Zoidberg … is the NEL (NEXT LINE) character ;)
 
Oh god NEL
Please.
NEL is from EBCDIC. 'nuff said.
Don't use that crap.
 
just saying what unicode specs it to ;)
and why I don't like it
 
> Seriously, there are no heroes in IT.
 
9:45 PM
@NikiC What do you mean?
NEL is encoded separately from ellipsis.
 
seriously
HOLY COCKFUCKING SHIT
 
how many proposals by Walter Brown!
 
user142019
A billion.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes, that's exactly what I mean. The NEL character is displayed as an ellipsis ^^
And that was the character that zoid posted ^^
 
user142019
9:47 PM
Ellipsis: … What I posted: … NEL: …
 
user142019
I posted this, you fool: wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%E2%80%A6
 
@NikiC That meaning something's broken. The semantics of NEL are the same as LF, CR, or CR+LF.
 
user142019
Wait wat.
 
user142019
W|A interprets NEL as ellipsis.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes: if I'm making a series of classes that fullfill a concept X that I want to overload functions with, but there's no hierarchy, so I need to SFINAE, what's the easist sort of thing I can do in my classes to make SFINAE easy for others?
 
9:49 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes In theory maybe, but certainly not in practice
 
user142019
UNICODE Y U SO ANNOYING AND CONSUFING
 
Nearly nothing will interpret NEL as a newline character and nearly everything will show it as an ellipsis
 
@Zoidberg What is W|A?
 
WolframAlpha
 
user142019
Wolfram Alpha
 
Xeo
9:50 PM
@MooingDuck You don't need to do anything special in the classes themselves, normally.
 
@Xeo shouldn't there be like a tag thing like iterator_traits or somethign?
 
Xeo
Just make a confirms_to_X trait, that either checks if the concept is fulfilled, or that you just (partially) specialize.
 
@Xeo that's what I thought, just doublechecking
 
Xeo
@MooingDuck Just because something is missing the ::iterator_category nested type doesn't mean it doesn't confirm to the iterator concept. :) Exhibit A: raw pointers.
 
@NikiC Most software I tested right now on my machine just treat it as an unknown format character (i.e. ignore it).
 
9:52 PM
@Xeo yeah, that's where I assumed the answer would go, just wanted to be certain
 
@Xeo It does if you didn't instead specialize iterator_traits.
 
So, it doesn't then.
 
If I send a single NEL in a message, chat gives me an "unknown error", lol
Looks, there's a NEL after this:…asasfasf
 
If a dog drops a ball at your feet, you throw that shit.
If a child hands you a toy phone, you answer that shit.
If someone you love wants a hug, you hug that shit.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Could be. I'm seeing this from the web perspective, maybe desktop has different approaches to the NEL ;)
 
Xeo
9:54 PM
@DeadMG Only if you take iterator_traits as the authority on what is an iterator. :P
 
@Xeo Requirements explicitly state it.
 
Firefox renders it properly.
 
@MooingDuck Document the concept, provide a trait for it. (Latter can be hard sometimes.)
 
It just appears that some web thingies replace it with U+2026 in the way.
The message Zoidberg posted above has only U+2026 in it.
7 mins ago, by Zoidberg
Ellipsis: … What I posted: … NEL: …
Ellipsis: \u2026 What I posted: \u2026 NEL: \u2026
 
user142019
Epic fail.
 
9:57 PM
HAha! Figured it out.
As usual, Windows-1252 is the culprit.
0x85 is the ellipsis in Windows-1252. /cc @Niki
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes what about the image on this page you linked?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes hehe
 
@MooingDuck It's broken :P
@MooingDuck FWIW, compare with fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/0082
 

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