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5:00 PM
@webarto That's pretty crazy. We had a guy setting random cars/houses on fire for a little while, close to 50 fires in a few days
 
damn... where the hell do you live? i now know Belgrade is off my list of places to visit....
oh LA.... yeah that sounds about right for LA
 
yeah, there's been worse :]
 
umm... the beer store served warm beer.... Canadians rioted.
 
Belgrade, guy got blown up (he probably asked for it)... other than that, safer than rest of Balkans...
 
@rlemon Flipping cars is the most rational response to warm beer
 
5:03 PM
@rdlowrey I'm confused why the controller can't have the request passed in the constructor?
 
I can see it now.... Walking up to some dude "Just wondering if you'd kindly attach this bomb to that car while i'm inside that there building"
 
posted on June 22, 2012 by Nelmio

Last week we had to write what a small specialized HTTP client that connects to a server and issues GET requests to fetch data. Simple enough. The only issue is that the data provider required us to use maximum one connection at any time, using HTTP pipelining to issue all the GET requests in the same connection and then block until they respond with new data. In practice this is not very com

 
user895378
@LeviMorrison I was talking about if you had two separate Request implementations. For example, Request ---> StdRequest and FormEncodedRequest ---> ParameterizedBodyRequest ... then you might have controller methods that looked like this:
 
user895378
class MyController {
    public function get(Request $request) {}
    public function post(FormEncodedRequest $request) {}
}
 
The comments on reddit.com/r/programming/comments/velko/… are really funny to me. Honestly I don't see why people hate PHP so much. I hate it. But I'm not going to deny that it is an incredibly useful language for the current times.
And, I actually try to do something about the parts I don't like.
 
5:08 PM
@LeviMorrison ruby ruby ruby ruby ruby ruby ruby ruby ruby ruby ruby ruby ruby ruby ruby ruby?
that's all I usually find in the "php sucks" threads :]
 
@orourkek I don't know Ruby. It's not even on my list of languages to learn. I'd rather learn haskell (which is #1 on that list, btw)
 
I think the analogy of PHP being like a set of weird tools is fairly accurate, but if you know how to use weird tools they can be just as useful as regular tools
 
My favorite part of the comments: reddit.com/r/programming/comments/velko/…
> Float loads
 
lol
 
@rdlowrey That was actually a rather interesting talk
 
5:13 PM
this one and the top reply are how I feel on the matter
 
user895378
@NikiC Yeah, he makes a lot of points that many of us basically "know," but that are easy to forget or violate.
 
But still I feel like the whole thing is a lot more complicated practically
 
@rdlowrey How different is it compared to the confreaks RoR talk?
 
user895378
@LeviMorrison It's basically the same talk
 
user895378
mostly the same slides
 
5:16 PM
@rdlowrey I might watch it anyway. If he explains things even a bit differently, it might click different things in my head.
 
user895378
@LeviMorrison Yeah, I felt like I got something out of it even though I had seen the previous talk.
 
user895378
 
@rdlowrey That's what I posted above, lol
 
Just curious to what others think... should websites adopt a directory or file style URL scheme? example.com/hello vs example.com/hello.html
 
My main gripe on his talks are I'd prefer to see a simplified code example, regardless of chosen language, as the diagrams are understandable but seeing a sample code snipplet would make it easier to understand.
 
user895378
5:18 PM
@LeviMorrison oh haha nice, I didn't even see that
 
user895378
It's funny because it's true.
 
@Greg What you refer to 'directory style' is the way to go.
 
user895378
Writing tax software would be terrible. Nevermind that the business rules change CONSTANTLY and arbitrarily, the subject matter would be so uninteresting
 
@LeviMorrison I think so too... But why?
 
@Greg Because they are properly abstracted from the file system.
 
5:22 PM
Hello, someone can help telling me how to put php code in markdown like in github ```php
echo 'hello';
````
 
like this?
 
@LeviMorrison my current website system is PHP-based, but uses html file extensions using rewrite rules (or xml or json or whatever). So there is not actually a .html file present. What are your views on that?
 
@Greg It's the wrong place for it. HTTP defines content-type as well as which content types it accepts through accept
 
@Event_Horizon Yes!!
 
user895378
@sanrodari Use backticks ` or click on this formatting help link
 
5:25 PM
@LeviMorrison I see. On that note though, would it make sense to drop all file extensions whatsoever... including example.com/image.jpg and example.com/atom.rss ?
 
user895378
@LeviMorrison +1
 
@rdlowrey Thanks thanks
 
(.htaccess) When i use the rule "RewriteRule ^([a-z-]+)..." What does the
'+' in the pattern?
 
@Greg Some places do drop those extensions. If you have the same image in png and jpg, you can drop the extension and use content negotiation to decide which to use.
 
Does anyone here use MVVM?
 
5:26 PM
@Ibra038 one or more occurences
@LeviMorrison righto thanks for your views
@Ibra038 so the string "" does not get caught, but the string "a" does
 
@Greg oke thank you!
(:
 
I try not to @EventHorizon since it originated from Microsoft and I try to stay away from anything Microsoft had anything to do with... But that's just me because I hate Microsoft ;)
 
@EventHorizon no, but I've been meaning to use knockout.js for some time now
 
@Greg I need an pattern that allows 0-9 (but also '34') and it need to allow '', how its gona look like?
 
@orourkek Have you used MVP? Do you have any opinions on what system you prefer?
 
5:30 PM
34 is caught in 0-9?
 
@Greg ([0-9]) ?
@Greg I dunno
 
user895378
@Ibra038 At some point are you going to make an effort to learn regex syntax or are you going to keep running here for free code? These are very basic regex patterns :)
 
@EventHorizon haven't used MVP, I'm sticking with "MVC" style things now
 
user895378
I'd encourage you to upgrade yourself and try to learn some basic regular expressions
 
@orourkek The reason I ask is because the most popular system may not always be the best, so I like to dig around a little before committing to something.
 
5:32 PM
@Event_Horizon , have you ever used MVP ?
 
0-9 is not even regex, come on! it's common sense
 
with a real passive views , not just flat templates
 
@rdlowrey i'm sorry, but i looked all over the internet, but I couldn't find anything about it..
 
No, which Is why I asked for opinions @tereško
 
user895378
@Ibra038 I think your google must be broken.
 
user895378
5:34 PM
Try searching for "regular expression tutorial" or something like that.
 
@rdlowrey I tried google on: htaccess patterns rewite url, but no good results..
oke thx!
 
@EventHorizon Im finding "MVC" with templates is my current preference
 
that is not mvc then
 
5:35 PM
@EventHorizon Thanks ! (:
 
@orourkek I think that you, like most web developers, don't understand what MVC is.
 
@orourkek that's like referring to cheetos as "meal"
 
([0-9]*) worked for me :D Thanks all.
 
@tereško notice the quotes? Colloquial "MVC", not actual MVC
You made a giant leap there...
It's closer to MVA than MVC
 
5:37 PM
> can you bring me some "water"
.. how would you understand this ..
 
Apparently typing m-v-c in quotes is not enough of an explanation for you, I'll remember that for the future
 
since your "mvc" does not have neither V nor C (and i will don't make hasty claims about existence of M) , then yes , you should not use that to describe your design pattern
 
@orourkek The problem is that in web development, the term MVC has been thoroughly adapted to every whim someone has, and they still call it MVC.
 
Instead of assuming I don't know what traditional MVC is, you could assume that i do, in which case surrounding m-v-c in quotes makes perfect sense. The [now] colloquial term "MVC" that has been applied to MVA and other patterns, is so commonly used that it's stupid to type out a full explanation every time
 
MVC does not stand for "My Very Code" !
 
5:41 PM
If you have a more concise way to reference the current, widespread framework term for what they consider m-v-c, please share and I'll gladly use that instead
but apparently the fact that i distinguished between the two in the first place isn't enough
 
Canadians + Camping + Hockey === creative workarounds.
 
@orourkek frameworks use term "MVC" because of twats , which do not know what it is, but think that it will magically improve the code
 
@tereško your vendetta is with those people, I just used m-v-c in quotes to illustrate the point
 
... at which you failed
> (..) "MVC" with templates
^ this means nothing
 
because you looked past the quotes and assumed I'm an idiot?
 
5:46 PM
yes , i read the full sentence
 
just because you didn't get the message doesn't mean that I failed at delivering it
 
.. actually that's usually what it means
 
I don't recall preceeding that with "@tereško"
 
oh .. forgive me .. i assumed that your intention was not to spread misinformation to newbies
 
saying " "MVC" with templates " was a shortcut to: "frameworks that claim to use MVC that treat views like templates". It's not an inference about actual MVC, or an assertion of my opinions, or a reflection of my knowledge on the matter - you assumed all of that
 
5:50 PM
u r funny
 
and now you made me wonder , what level of expertise you assumed your "target" has ..
 
both of you :)
 
/me is hungry
 
if you don't understand the use of quotes in language, that's another issue entirely
 
@orourkek In this room, we assume anyone mentioning MVC doesn't know what they are talking about until proven otherwise.
That's simply because of the amount of people who say they are using MVC frankly aren't.
Just because @tereško is rude doesn't mean he isn't right.
8
 
5:53 PM
reference my last message
 
^ I just noticed this
been using old spice for years.
 
@orourkek I'm just trying to give you some context for the MVC subject in this chat room.
@rlemon That's a recent change.
 
lol it made me laugh
 
@LeviMorrison I'm aware of all that, which is why I purposely used quotes...
is there a better/shorter way to say "what is commonly [erroneously] referred to as MVC"
or do i have to type that out for everyone, every time?
 
@rlemon lmao
 
5:57 PM
@orourkek To be safe, you should probably just type it out.
 
@LeviMorrison I've now typed nearly the equivalent of a book explaining just that, so maybe nothing will work
 
@orourkek . . . or maybe you are just being a little bit testy. Calm down, tereško is rude to everyone.
 
I MVC'd the JSON out of my Responsive HTML5 AJAX Bootstrap. My client was all like "Holy DJANGO that thing is fast! But can we MongoDB the View Controller so it is more jQuery? NodeJS all of the CodeIgniter Boilerplates!"
did I miss anything?
 
@LeviMorrison Actually, no, he isn't
@tereško has been really nice recently
At least what I saw from him
 
just don't try to talk about frameworks, apparently
 
6:03 PM
@orourkek yep.
@NikiC He has been nicer lately, hasn't he?
@orourkek I think if you examine good programming practices and then examine many frameworks, you will find that the frameworks generally don't do a good job of implementing good practices. I stay out of every framework-specific conversation except Atreyu, which is one in development.
 
he got a girlfriend?
sex: turning angry men nice since 60000BC
 
@LeviMorrison I'd prefer to try everything at least once, rather than avoid them
 
@orourkek That's perfectly fine. I wish I knew of a mature framework that I liked. I would use it in a heartbeat.
 
There's some that I like, but only if you ignore their confusing design pattern assertions. (and only until you look under the hood)
 
Although most of my work doesn't deal with something a framework can help with.
(Or at least a web framework can help with)
 
6:13 PM
@LeviMorrison What language do you usually work in?
 
@Event_Horizon PHP. I spend most of my time refactoring code and creating business rules.
 
ah I see, I thought you had meant you were doing desktop scripting/programming
 
While at work I deal with code that's actually closer to MVC than most frameworks, but it wasn't designed that way :P
 
I assumed you were doing something like using Perl
 
6:16 PM
hello
i am looking for space on the web server so please tell me any good compny
 
@Mayankswami google will tell you: encrypted.google.com/search?q=free+web+hosting
 
www.site5.com
 
@Gordon The asker and answerer are forming a good team, see this nearly identical question: stackoverflow.com/questions/11160481/…
 
@hakre only on these two though, so i'd say its coincidence
 
Well I haven't said it's a team by design.
 
6:25 PM
@webarto there are many compny who are providing the unlimited space does they really provide the unlimited space ?
like godaddy
 
@hakre im flagging the asker for advisory from mods. all his Qs have dv's.
 
I did some of those dv's. Many of his questions had already + cv's.
 
@Gordon hello its first time i am buying the web space so wold you suggest any name if you know ?
 
supercoolwebsite2000.com
it has super, cool, and 2000 in it
 
6:30 PM
@Mayankswami what are you looking for?
 
all it's missing is an X and Pro to make it UBER
looky there and it's available
 
Hi all
@rlemon how supercollwebsite2000.com is still avaible bugs me
 
So what do you guys think personally the best use for PHP programming is (in summary)? Where does it shine vs where it fails?
 
I know eh?
sorry for the profanity
but fuck.me is also not auctioned off yet
I couldn't believe it!
wonders how expensive that domain will be
 
@rlemon fuck me, i will buy it, in 10 years you will hear how rich i am
oh ,auctioned i thought it was just avaiable
 
6:33 PM
yea .me is all auction based iirc
 
@rdlowrey , lately I like UnkleBob's lectures less and less
 
@Event_Horizon It's pretty good at DOM manipulation, actually. Building a scraper in PHP is MUCH easier than doing it in C/C++.
 
@tereško What I didn't like about that lecture is that it was a bit long-winded. I know, humans need lots and lots of repeating. But after all, programmars aint humans, right?
I'd prefer something more succinct
 
@LeviMorrison I've never done scraping so I wouldn't know.
 
6:36 PM
Anyone has used that Synchronized Multimedia Integration Language (SMIL), just browsing abou and it seems like it was a nice thing but discontinued
 
@Event_Horizon Uhm, web? (or what kind of answer do you expect?)
 
@NikiC , my issue is the abuse of straw-man arguments based on very narrow cases
 
@NikiC I saw this question: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/240465/what-are-the-best-uses-for-each-programming-language

I figured it would be good discussion to talk about the advantages PHP might have over other languages, and what disadvantages it has etc. since the person making the question already handles PHP most don't answer about it.
 
@Mayankswami dunno, I have started working for this company recently and all I can say so far is that they are different (better)...
 
6:40 PM
@Event_Horizon , what a horrible topic you managed to dig up
 
blah
 
@tereško its not the question I'm interested in its the answers, and what the opinions are of people in this room on PHP.
 
user895378
> Haskell is useful to impress your friends.
 
user895378
lol ^
 
@rdlowrey I agree :)
 
6:42 PM
@hakre , the duplicate is bad , there was one with tokenizer mentioned in answers
@NikiC , actually it is good for things that you use node.js for
 
@tereško That's his own duplicate.
I normally cv as duplicate if OP does re-postings.
 
oh .. hell
 
40
A: Why is PHP apt for high-traffic websites?

ircmaxellWhat you'll usually find is that it's not as slow as you think. The reason a lot of sites are slow is because the hosts are overloaded. But one primary benefit of PHP over a compiled language is ease of maintenance. Because PHP is designed from the ground up for HTTP traffic, there's less to b...

 
@ircmaxell What is your opinion on C#?
 
6:54 PM
lol
 
@Event_Horizon It's interesting. That's about all I'll say
 
From a quick glance it looks similar to Java
 
it kinda is (ok .. at least that was my impression in university )
 
not at all
It's similar to java in that everything's an object
but would you say that Python is similar to java?
 
no, probably not
Alright guys, I'll see you all later, heading home for the day.
 
7:01 PM
@EventHorizon bye
 
now that's bad ass
 
yeah
 
7:17 PM
Add someone with way too much time and a lot of Rubik's Cubes together -- and they'll figure something out...
 
user895378
@rlemon lol it's funny that you say that. I had the same reaction about seven months ago
 
ugh
edit Ding edit Ding edit Ding
O_o
 
user895378
sorry ... I try not to multi-ping, but it's friday
 
> This content is currently unavailable
:P
no worries
 
user895378
doh. Oh well. Suffice it to say that it's the exact same Old Spice picture with the exact same message about how I've been using it for years and never noticed the sweet marketing.
 
7:27 PM
hi everyone, i'm having trouble with a php exec() command running a .jar
i have exec('java -jar testJava.jar', $output); , but it does nothing ($output has already been initialized using array() ). Can anyone tell me why that would be?
 
what is the output when you run it in command line, maybe exec() is disabled?
 
when I run it in commandline, it gives me the expected output (it's just a test .jar, so it just prints out the current time to console, and produces a text file containing 'Hello, world')
exec isn't disable because i can do echo exec('whoami'); and it works just fine
however, if i do echo exec('java -version'); I get nothing
which leads me to believe php is unable to run java for some reason
but i'm rather inexperienced with php and working with servers (it's an apache serve), and I really have no idea how to diagnose this issue
 
i've read all that, grasshopp - i'm not interested in installing the PHP/Java bridge because I've read in numerous places it's actually relatively unstable
but aside from that, i've also seen in numerous places that this exec('java ...') syntax should work
 
If they're wrong about exec(), maybe they're wrong about the java bridge...
 
7:35 PM
except exec() WAS working for them :P
 
the point was more about not accepting what other people say on the internet as being factual
 
i trust the people on stackoverflow ;)
ok, so i don't think it's just java anymore
 
read this answer, maybe try absolute paths? stackoverflow.com/questions/5707905/…
 
i tried a few other exec commands, and it hasn't been working
so as i said, exec('whoami') worked, so i figured i might try 'man java' to see what came up when apache called it
and I got not output
so i tried just 'man', which should give the error asking for which man page to bring up, and i got nothing
 
7:40 PM
wanting to try something else, just to be sure, i tried 'ls', and got no output
so really, the only exec() command I've had work properly is 'whoami'
 
user895378
Anybody know the Chrome keyboard shortcut to focus the address bar?
 
ctrl + e seems to do it -- but it adds a ? in there
 
user895378
F6 or Ctrl+L or Alt+D
 
ahh yep ctrl + l does it ;)
 
user895378
7:47 PM
Thanks for subsidizing my lazyness :)
 
@rdlowrey Saw your comment on that blog about DI and waded in with my 4 cents worth.
 
user895378
@GordonM hehe, yeah as soon as I saw the first example I just stopped and commented. Didn't read any further. I'll go back and check it out.
 
Getting told how I should be doing it by a programmer that knows a lot less about good architecture than I do is turning into a pretty familiar feeling at the moment :(
4 cents? I guess inflation hits everything sooner or later
 
why would echo exec('ls'); produce no output?
 
@MattS do var_dump(exec('ls')); see what happens
 
7:59 PM
@rdlowrey What's your agenda for the day?
 
user895378
@LeviMorrison I'm going to take a break in about half an hour and go to the gym but I plan on being at the computer most of the night
 
user895378
Just going to resume working on Atreyu stuff
 
user895378
@GordonM I don't have the motivation to disagree with him at the moment. You shouldn't create a class named Serializer that implements Serializable just to serialize other objects. Those objects should themselves implement Serializable. His example makes no sense, and I just don't care.
 
user895378
Unteachable person isn't teachable.
 
@Greg I get " string(0) "" " as output
 
user895378
8:04 PM
@GordonM I don't know ... I think chat conditions us not to assume that someone questioning our logic is attacking us personally. It's clear from his comments that he assumes any disagreement can't possibly be valid and that people are out to get him.
 
@rdlowrey Yeah, it just kinda sucks that he's trying to teach others. And if not for that it wouldn't be a terrible demo
 
user895378
If you don't pretend you know everything it's not painful when it's publicly proved that you don't know everything. That's my philosophy, anyway :)
 
user895378
If someone points out a discrepancy or problem in your code or your reasoning, it's okay to evaluate their statement and correct yourself if they make sense.
2
 
yeah
 
Hey all
 
8:17 PM
hey @Truth
 
@rdlowrey "well that's just your opinion" :]
 
user895378
Sounds like the Big Lebowski ... "well that's just ... like ... your opinion ... man."
 
user895378
That Serializer rug really tied the room together.
 
lol
reading all of his comments in the Dude's voice does add a lot to that blog post
 
can anyone tell me why exec() is not working properly?
the only commands i've been able to get it to execute properly are 'whoami' and 'pwd'
 
user895378
8:22 PM
@MattS Have you tried posting a question on the main site with all the relevant details?
 
0
Q: PHP not calling .jar file with exec()

MattSI'm trying to execute a .jar file from a PHP exec() call. As far as I know I'm calling the java program properly, but I'm not getting any of the output. The .jar can be executed from the command line on the server. (For the record, it's an apache server). My php looks like this: $output = array...

it's actually slightly more specific to the issue i'm having - exec() not executing a .jar file
but i've since found that it's not executing most commands
i should update the question with that new info
 
user895378
Sorry, I can't help, but I gave you a sympathy upvote on the question for at least going through the right channels ...
 
ha, thanks
 
Was watching that clean architecture video that Ter linked to yesterday. Guy makes a lot of sense. However I'm not sure how much of that is applicable to PHP, given that if you're writing in PHP in the first place there's a high order of probability that you're writing a web app
 
user895378
@MattS Also, if you edit your question, it'll bump it up to the top of the "Active" list, which generally helps. Of course, Friday afternoon isn't always the ideal time to get answers :)
 
8:24 PM
@GordonM Ah, but you missed the point.
 
user895378
@GordonM Yeah, I'm with @LeviMorrison on that :)
 
I'm just saying!
 
Consider my case: I work for a supercomputing department for a university. We have a website that does various things. We also have a web API for users to automate certain things. I can use the same application core if the architecture allows it. If I'm tied to my delivery mechanism, I can't do that.
 
All implemented in PHP?
 
Supercomputing in PHP? What?
 
8:29 PM
Quick best practice question:
 
user895378
Okay, here's another example -- I do tons of financial data aggregation using PHP scripts. Some of it comes from APIs, some of it comes from scraping public securities information, some of it comes from parsing public financial filings, and some of it comes from FTP sites. I also have an intranet site where I manage all of this. Everything happens in PHP. How would I have all the automated work happen if my code were tied to a web delivery mechanism?
 
is it better to have:
if(notFailureCase)
//dostuff
else
return failure
or
if(failureCase)
return failure
//dostuff
 
user895378
@SomeKittens Doesn't matter.
 
user895378
except you should definitely use braces {}
 
@rdlowrey thanks
yeah, just pseudo code
 
8:32 PM
@Truth No, it's just an API for users to automatically submit jobs, check on job status, etc.
 
@someKittens one thing I would say about that, though, is depending on how much stuff you're doing in "//dostuff", it can be better to use the second case, because it's more readable. If you do if(notFailureCase){//do big long function}else{return failure}, people can sometimes forget what if statement that else is connected to
 
@GordonM The outward facing API's, yes.
 
user895378
@GordonM By keeping the core of your application decoupled from the delivery mechanism you ensure that the assets you've created (in the form of code-based services) can run in any context.
 
@MattS Good advice, that's what I'll go with
 
FFS, is it just me or is stack laggy as hell?
 
user895378
8:34 PM
haven't noticed.
 
user895378
Afternoon break time. Peace out to the homies.
 
@rdlowrey I'd be wondering if PHP would be the right choice of language for the bits of the system that aren't web facing :)
 
Finally. Only took 12 retries to send that :(
Hell with it. This is unusable. Bye
 
@GordonM bye
 
8:45 PM
PHP QUSETION!
 
@rdlowrey Where was it that you are working again?
 
i have a function testFunction( $group_name, $assets = array() ); i also have a conditional like so if( $assets['group'] === TRUE ): $assets['group_name']; endif;
how can i add the fcking comma between arguments if $group === TRUE
 
add a the comma?
 
testFunction( if( $assets['group'] === TRUE ): $assets['group_name']; endif; , $assets );
 
oh god, why would you write it like that?
 
8:48 PM
i only want the comma if group === TRUE :)
LOL
 
@NikiC I already wish I had my new exception architecture on the project I'm working on.
 
nevermind figured it out another way
idiot in me
 

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