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8:00 PM
This marks the end of the Town Hall Chat. I would like to thank all of the candidates for participating here, and for running in this election, as well as everyone who came to ask questions.
Candidates, if you don't have to speed off, feel free to continue posting answers.
 
Thank you!
 
I wish everyone good luck in the elections!
 
Remember, you can still complete your answer; the digest should include a few minutes after the Town Hall. Just remember to link to the original question.
 
@Shog9 Some (recent) questions surprise me in the number of votes they get even though in my view they're pretty poor questions. Some of them can be improved with edits. Some get comments (and presumably flags too) that validates this. In the remaining questions there's a judgement call to be made, but closed questions can be reopened and the new wording on the close messages makes this quite a bit clearer which I think goes some way towards helping make closure a less bitter pill to swallow.
 
Lix
@RobertHarvey If you put all of the candidates in a line in random order then the 5th one from the right. Its simple math :)
 
8:01 PM
@TimStone Feedback is important to improve yourself so if something on meta was related to me or a decision I made I would of course check if they have a point - and possibly learn from it.
 
@KendallFrey I'd leave it as it is.
 
dangit. I had questions, but got dragged off to an hour long set of meetings
 
@KendallFrey If such an answer were made today, I don't expect it would last long at all. I understand the general idea of wanting "Epic Historical" posts around, but I don't know how useful that answer is - especially when just linked to in a comment on more recent questions.
 
@Lix You've never edited? I don't believe you.
 
@casperOne I don't agree with editing spam out of deleted spam answers. It makes it harder to spot if the next possibly spammy answer on that question is a re-post of previously deleted stuff or not. I've seen a few moderators do that, I disagree but it's hardly something I'd rollback and it's been discussed on meta a few times.
 
8:03 PM
@Lix As I said in a comment on his nomination, I regularly run across George Stocker while performing cleanup tasks, and his posts on Meta have contained some of the most well-thought-out arguments about site policy that I've read. He gets little recognition for this, though. Similarly, @awoodland has shown dedication to keeping things clean and has supported people well on Meta, which are great traits for a moderator.
 
Second the "you never see George until he's RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF YOU AAAAAH!" comment.
 
right, I'm off to sleep. Thanks @GraceNote for the THC & @TimStone.. you're gonna have a hard time in collating the replies ;P
 
@ErnestFriedmanHill I'd like to see more first time users familiar with how the site works, what's on topic etc. so they don't walk into the usual traps. I think that would benefit everyone - they would perceive people as more friendly and regular users would get less frustrated and abrasive.
 
@ErnestFriedmanHill Bring back the old "no answers" style!
 
@Sathya I'll work some magic, no worries. ;)
 
8:05 PM
@TimStone ;)
 
@Aarthi reply once and reply well. If that doesn't cut it a full blown argument helps nobody so the only constructive thing to do is take a step back and avoid making things worse.
 
@ThiefMaster +1
 
@Aarthi Case-by-case. For things like this there is no general solution so you have to consider each case on its own.
 
Lix
@Shog9 I love editing things on the site - I find myself missing markdown wherever I go... Its the best isn't it? :P. Voting to close questions is a regular occurance for me - possibly becuase of my sometimes heavy hand but mostly because of the reason these moderator elections are being held - there is a lot of content in need of cleaning up; And there is more and more every day.
 
@waxeagle Post it on meta, see what the community thinks about it and if there is enough positive feedback ping the devs or someone from the SE community team about it in case they didn't notice it.
 
8:08 PM
Glad to be here. I have to run off to my next session at the conference, but thanks for the opportunity to participate and the kind words. Hope the election goes well for everyone.
 
@waxeagle if it's something that can be done in a user script that's a pretty good way of making showing things work and showing people like it. There have been a few things that have come through that way. Bounties on feature requests tend to work quite well sometimes for showing support and attracting developer attention. I'd rather avoid bugging developers in chat though.
 
@RobertHarvey Nope. Especially spam and non-answers are incredibly quick anyway. And since I booted a few hundred spam drones from IRC a few hours ago those numbers don't really intimidate me. Even though you probably can't really compare a single command to get rid of easy-to-spot infected clients and checking 30 answers if they are really non-answers.
 
oh man what did I miss?
 
Lix
@BoltClock Looking at the time when the bounty was placed and the time the refund was requested an honest mistake would be viable for a refund. If answers have already popped up then things are a bit more tricky - I don't think that bounties should be refunded at all if (valid !NAA) answers are already posted.
 
@RobertHarvey not particularly intimidating. I'm more limited by my 15 delete votes (and lack of other options in some cases) in terms of the number of flags I look at in the flag queue than anything else.
 
8:13 PM
@TimStone I'd check flags and handle anything which I'd notice as a regular user, too. I'd keep "using" SO after all and when noticing something that should be dealt with there'd be no reason to wait for someone to flag it. Before becoming moderator I'd have flagged it anyway and from a look on my "helpful/declined flag" count my flags usually fit with what the mods think is correct.
 
Lix
@casperOne Hard to state a finite amount of time for this... I'd say once I make it into the The Wheel of Blame! things should start going into auto pilot :)
 
@Hans You are not going to miss me singing "Oh Lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz."
 
@TimStone largely dealing with things people bring to moderators attention. Letting users guide the site involves allowing close/reopen/delete/undelete to occur "organically" in borderline cases to my mind. Unilateral action on unflagged content has to be reserved for only rare, completely unambiguous cases.
 
@Gilles If the answers were posted almost at the same time and are possibly rather simple chances are good it was just coincidence. I'd mention this to both users and hope that the issue is resolved with that. If not it depends on factors like the behaviour of the users what to do.
 
@Gilles if the edits come in the grace period it's hard to prove anything as a moderator. I think developers have access to more detailed information (like POST requests from clients) which would reveal that information. It's not really something worth pursuing to that level though unless the users have a history of doing things like this. There might be other side evidence tough, e.g. unedited comments which reveal something. Annotations on the accounts might be worth looking at.
 
8:18 PM
@jmort253 I did 5 hours of IRC support in a gaming network (i.e. lots of "time-consuming" users) for about three years and never experienced any issues like this. Probably burnout is unlikely to happen at my age anyway. But I don't have any specific strategies - never needed them. If I did get some issues at some point I'd probably ask for a short break.
 
Lix
@TimStone With regard to the action that was taken I don't think that someone posting on meta about it will give me a change of heart. That is of course unless a piece of crucial information comes to light in the meta post. Every action you take and its ramifications should affect your decision making process in the future.
 
@jmort253 the good stuff about the site is the most important thing at the end of the day. Sometimes I go and look for good content specifically instead of looking for the bad stuff. That's interesting, distracting and puts the bad things in perspective. I hope that would continue to work as a moderator too.
 
@ThiefMaster It sounds like everyone who answered this question so far has really good experience and strategies for avoiding burnout. This will make the decision tough, as we have a great pool of candidates.
 
@KendallFrey It is a fun way to convey useful information which makes it a great answer - it contains good information and is still amusing to read while not. And I think it's one of the most awesome questions on SO which would deserve overflowing the score data type. :p
 
@KendallFrey Locked seems like a sensible status. It reflects a frustration that some users felt at the time I think. It conveys the message reasonably well although I would rather write something more neutral personally it's not offensive.
 
8:22 PM
@jmort253 Not sure if it counts as a strategy, but since I a) use SO between other things (i.e. not like a hard 10-hour job) and b) it's a hobby I don't think there is a big risk of burning out.
 
@ThiefMaster: It's a meme though, seldomly used in a polite way, and it incurs a lot of bickering and extra moderation effort. Is it worth to keep for "historic significance"? (euphemism for google juice). Would you have the moderation guts to delete a similar popular joke post, one which you're less attached to e.g.?
 
@ThiefMaster Oh, you're in for a surprise ;P
 
@YannisRizos As somebody who is an IRC operator for 6 years (and a few months) now I think I'm pretty ready to moderate a chat, too. Especially since the users in the SO chat seem to be much more mature than most users on gaming IRC networks.
 
@YannisRizos chat flags are tricky. They depend an awful lot on context - one user calling another names could be friendly and intimate or rude and insulting. Making that judgement call quickly is hard sometimes. In some rooms the regulars seem very good at making that call quite quickly, I wouldn't want to interfere with that, but I've seen a fair few flags on chat so I don't think it'd be a huge problem stepping up a bit. Being active on chat is a plus here I think.
 
Lix
@casperOne This incident occurred while going through the lists of posts from the 2012 cleanup effort. I would raise all my flags at my disposal (40+) and get them all "resolved" by one moderator closing the post with the appropriate NARQ or NC notice. Once day and on one batch of flags, all the questions were deleted instantly.
 
8:26 PM
@mario Yes, historic significance - and things being grandfathered - are valid reasons to keep something in my opinion. Besides that, I'm strongly against "depublishing" well-known things.
@mario However, with questions like "what's your favourite programming meme" etc. which got deleted some time ago I'd rather (i.e. if possible) go a way that profits everyone: not keeping them as questions directly on SO but redirecting to some kind of "SO graveyard" containing "memorials" of nice/amusing/funny things that were on SO but don't fit here anymore
 
Lix
@casperOne I think that when the instruction went out to flag old posts becuase they wouldn't receive enough attention (not necessarily because of the content) that the team should have had a singular action. Only one batch of 40+ flags resulted in immediate post deletions.
 
So, who is going to offer salami?
I came mainly for that reason.
 
/me prefers a salami pizza.
 
@GraceNote I'm probably shooting myself in the foot here, but I don't think the outcome of the elections will be a huge change of behaviour or time for me, whichever way it goes. After the last election I probably spent more time flagging and got more involved on meta. I don't see my involvement dropping either way. I'd be happy if the community decided they trusted me enough to give me access to more tools, but not taking offence if there's other better qualified candidates you'd rather vote for.
 
@ThiefMaster I thought that was called pepperoni pizza. That is fine for me too.
 
Lix
8:28 PM
@ErnestFriedmanHill Live refresh on the election page :) meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/134973/…
 
It's funny that in Italian "pepperoni" means peppers, as in belly peppers.
Now that I chat mainly in English, I doubt of how I write Italian words. :)
 
But actually, I'd rather take some pepperoni chips. ;p
 
Lix
@Aarthi Take it out of the public eye - possibly into mod messages (not sure of the protocol here)
 
@GeorgeStocker: Did you just remove the salami from this room?! :p
 
Lix
@waxeagle Possible duplicate of "How does the bounty system work?" ;)
@RobertHarvey Not in the slightest. If anything we'll be able to take that with a pinch of salt becuase 3 more users are on their way up to help :)
@TimStone If I see a post in need of moderation there is no need to wait - I'll take action right then and there - I'm already looking at the post. I think the bulk of the work will be dealing with issues brought to the moderators.
@Gilles clean up the comments, tell the offending users not to use the comment threads as a platform for arguments and depending on the escalation of the incident suspensions might be in order.
 
8:45 PM
Sorry about that guys, my team is releasing a product this week, and we have been in impromptu meetings all day.
If there is another one of these, I'd be glad to take part.
 
@GeorgeStocker you can just add your responses now, they'll make it into the digest posted on meta
 
Oooh.
Sounds good.
Hopefully all the questions were starred (they were, right?)
 
@GeorgeStocker a couple of non-questions got starred, but yes.
 
@GeorgeStocker I ran out of stars near the end, but someone was still starting I think
 
@GeorgeStocker that's the idea
 
Lix
8:51 PM
@KendallFrey Touchy subject there... Locking the post is definitely the right choice but it's historical significance (as the notice states), IMO, earn it the right to stay put.
@jad... this is EXHAUSTING! :P heheh
 
@TimStone Two users are cursing at each other? Seems like they've both lost their cool. First things first is to ping them both and let them know to not do this in public. Then, remove the rubber necking effect by removing the comments that do not add value to the question. Lock the question [if necessary]. Then reach out to them, figure out what has got them upset. Listen; respond, and reiterate that that sort of behavior isn't welcome, but their contributions are.
@casperOne I feel like I already do this. At least for my day-to-day activity, the Diamond would just make it so that I didn't have to burden anyone else with obviously actionable stuff. Right now it feels like there's not enough people out there actually cleaning up the content, and that's what I spend the majority of my time doing on the site.
@casperOne I've been around Stack Overflow for a long time, so I've grown accustomed to the ebb and flow of the community sentiment around what belongs on the site and what does not. To me, that's a positive trait to have in being a moderator: Understanding the community. On the negative side, I tend to think I'm right, even when I'm not. That's where asking other moderators for help will come in. If it's a borderline problem, I'll elicit help.
@MichaelMrozek New Users are both the ones that need the most patience and the most moderation. When I can, I try to salvage borderline questions with good edits. When the question is too bad to be salvaged, I'll leave a comment and vote to close. That won't change as moderator: I'll still take the time to edit those questions that have good potential.
 
9:30 PM
@JeremyHolovacs Moderators disagree? Never. (Kidding). It's just as important for moderators to be on the same page as it is for the question to be handled correctly. Between the two, I'd rather the question be handled correctly than the moderators be on the same page -- but that's why Moderators should work together and borderline questions should be looked at by more than one moderator before action.
@TimStone Always Editing. Edit the question if you think it can be salvaged. If it can't be salvaged (and if you edit a lot of questions, you get a feel for what can be salvaged), then it should be closed and potentially deleted. People imitate the actions they see those that have 'power' take. If as a Mod you edit a lot of questions, people will hopefully see that as positive reinforcement to edit questions when they can.
@funkymushroom When you edit a question, you shouldn't change the intent of the question -- but there's a lot of leeway to make that question better for someone else that has that problem.
@waxeagle There have been very few flags that I've ever been borderline on. Most of the problems are visibly apparent. In situations where they haven't been, I've taken the following tack when flagging: "This question seems to have these problems. I feel like I need another person to validate the problems I see. Flagging this question for [closure, deletion] based on these reasons. "
@MichaelMrozek It makes me want to make doubly sure the actions I'm taking are correct. This feeds into taking borderline questions to the group [of moderators].
@JeremyHolovacs I've taken a different tack than others here. I've spent a lot of time editing questions, and only flagging when I was either out of close votes for the day, or when I wasn't sure I was making the right call (or I thought the question was egregious enough that it needed moderator attention). Most people flag and move on (I explain the reasons why I think that happens here: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/135774/…
@Shog9 I use them all the time; I use the /review dashboard the least (because with the number of flags we have, it takes some time to go through all of them during a workday). I'm very comfortable with them.
@YannisRizos For most sites it's pretty clear what belongs where -- we're at the point now where the migration paths are much clearer than they used to be, so it's not often that you'll see a question migrated to programmers. If there are borderline questions, either leave it in place or take it to the group.
@Kalamane define 'isn't exactly on topic'. If it's a "What's your favorite programmable [thing]", then that's a question that is really off topic. (Both as a list of X question, as a not constructive question, and as a question that's better posed on Reddit).
@BoltClock When the bounty was put on the question because the question was off topic and the OP put the bounty on the question so it couldn't be closed. That's when I'd do that. If we had more users that could handle the amount of traffic we need to handle for closing questions, then I may not -- but right now we have a lot of traffic, and not very many people [ratio wise] that vote to close questions that are demonstrably off-topic. Questions get through the cracks.
@TimStone I have a history of being on meta, participating, and seeing what the community sentiment is. I even try to post what I believe the direction should be. If I ever take an action that rubs the community (as a whole, instead of one user negatively affected), then I suspect there will be a very visible outcry on meta (as there would be if any mod did something like that). It's healthy, and I'll listen where needed.
@Aarthi I may be in the minority here, but I like to be open about the actions I take. There shouldn't be a question as to why I did something (If the reason is not evident, then I've failed). I am happy to make my case on meta, but as I've seen in the past, if you do something correct, and someone complains about it, the community will post their opinions. If you're in the 'right' then you'll be vindicated by the community.
@waxeagle They're allowed to ignore feature requests. If it's something that blocks me from doing my job as a moderator, I'll keep an active line of communication about it; but I don't expect the Dev team to implement anything just because someone says they need it. Since I'm a developer myself, I'd do my best to try to implement it, show them the value, and go from there.
@RobertHarvey No.
@TimStone The role of a moderator is to make decisions in cases where the community can't (or doesn't have a consensus) and to remove actively harmful content from the site. As part of that, it's my 'job' to go through the flag queue, but I'm also there to see things as they occur. As a moderator, I'll follow the same process I do now: Try to salvage bad [but potentially good] questions, close blatantly bad questions, and ask other moderators about the borderline issues.
@Gilles Happens all the time (two answers with similar content). Let the community sort it out through votes. If the answerers are smart, they'll do things to differentiate their answers from one another (solving the problem themselves). There's really no way to say what is plagiarized unless it's a word for word replica. If it is, I'll talk to the user involved, but otherwise -- let the community handle it.
@jmort253 I normally come to SO during breaks in work (or during builds, or lunch) for the last (almost) four years. I haven't gotten burned out yet. I don't see that changing.
@KendallFrey It's been handled appropriately. It's locked because the answer is contentious. It's staying on the site because it's helpful and it's funny. It's so helpful because it is so funny. I don't see any reason to change that.
@YannisRizos Yes. Moderator chat; I haven't seen chat outside of that work too well (unless there's a specific question), but I would be in chat where needed.
@GraceNote Moderation is about taking the actions needed to keep the community clean. It's not unlike that of a janitor or gardener. It is not glorious work. It's not all about laying down the law, either. It's about doing the work necessary to keep the community going and thriving. Some days that means editing questions; others that means tracking down troublesome users; sometimes it means closing questions. Use the right tool for the job. I've done that since day one, and that won't change.
@Lix @BradLarson is a great example of someone who understands what it takes to be a moderator. He doesn't just flag potentially great (but problematic) questions, he works to fix them. We need more people like that on Stack Overflow. Don't ask others to do that which you're not doing yourself.
Whew. Done.
 
10:04 PM
Wow. I'm guessing you answered more questions than any other candidate.
 
If not, I at least made it appear that I did.
 
The digest should make this (moderately) easier to follow
 
Indeed. Ok, time to head home. See you guys later.
 
10:55 PM
@MichaelMyers Daily. Less on Mondays, but more on weekends, so it averages out.
 
I wanted to know if moderators are compensated in anyway for their efforts?
 
@waxeagle Bump it by editing. As a moderator, my feature requests would still be just as important as before...
@RobertHarvey Nope! (Although all of that in 15 minutes is a little... wow. Not in an intimidated way, though.)
@TimStone "Primarily" both :) I browse the questions regularly, and I wouldn't stop doing that. Obvious offenders are obvious.
@KendallFrey It's mildly helpful, mildly annoying, pretty famous, and I'm fine with it staying exactly the way it is.
 
user50049
@JoelRodgers We get some neat stuff like T-Shirts, stickers, business cards, etc. And at the end of year a contribution to a charity we select is made in our name.
 
@JoelRodgers If you count T-shirts and business cards, yes. Otherwise, no, the adulation of the crowds is the only reward.
 
user50049
11:11 PM
Moderation is more often than not a thankless task. Doing it is a hobby and a way to give back to something that helped you. Once in a while though you do get a nice comment from a user that had a better experience due to some action you took.
 
@BrunoPereira It's not entirely true that there's no backing up; plenty of moderator actions are reversible. I definitely won't make any irreversible decisions that I'm not 100% sure of, and as for the rest, my CRAT (calculated reversible action threshold) appears to be 98.5%. I'm willing to do it... well, for the entire forseeable future. I want to do it because I like helping people.
@Shog9 I'd say I'm comfortable with them all. They're not difficult to pick up.
 
user50049
@minitech There are occasions where you have to be extremely careful, some actions that we take are in fact extremely difficult for a developer to undo if needed. However for the most part, tools that we have access to feature plenty of guard rails and safety nets just in case.
 
@YannisRizos To be honest, I don't use chat much so no, I wouldn't feel comfortable taking action on anything but the most obvious cases and I'd leave it to other moderators for as long as necessary to learn what the right course of action is :)
@TimPost Yup - the moderator-only sort of things are part of the 100%. Locking less, deleting less, closing less, editing less.
 
11:41 PM
@minitech Oh, that's Calculated Reversible Action Point... ;P
 
@YannisRizos - Was that a reference to a simple seat without a back or arms?
 
@TravisJ I can neither confirm or deny this is true
 
@YannisRizos - I wouldn't expect it any other way. Clearly this does not have enough context and usually refers to an object instead of a boolean.
 
@minitech Chat is... interesting (from a moderator perspective). Won't spoil the surprise ;)
 
@YannisRizos This worries me.
 
11:56 PM
@minitech Nah, don't worry about it. Remember, if elected, you'd be part of a team. Not just your fellow SO mods, but 100+ SE mods are here to help.
 
@YannisRizos Right :) Thanks.
 

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