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5:00 PM
@ScarletAmaranth I have that one? That's not that weird of a construct.
 
@SamDeHaan Wow, I must suffer from dislexia. I totally didn't see the "that" part.
@SamDeHaan Sry ^^
 
nbd
 
@MooingDuck I know that i am new it this but i need answer. Could you help me?
 
@Sasha It's not about your being new, but as it has been explained million times already, people are not obliged to and usually not in a mood to answer questions since this is Lounge, not "Q'n'A SO".
 
5:05 PM
@Sasha Also, the answer is no, I can't help you, I don't know the answer.
 
I think it's a fair assumption that anyone willing and able to help will do so without being prompted.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes That's hilarious.
 
HKL stands for Handle Keyboard Layout, no?
In this case don't expect creating one or even accessing the underlying object
If it means HiveKeyLocal then idk
 
@Cicada I dunno, I've never seen it before, and MSDN doesn't talk about it that I can find, just refers to it
 
The proverb says "if MSDN does not talk about it, don't use it"
 
5:09 PM
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms646296(v=vs.85).aspx Return value
Type: HKL
The return value is the input locale identifier for the thread. The low word contains a Language Identifier for the input language and the high word contains a device handle to the physical layout of the keyboard.
(there's no links)
I assume it's a typedef to some integral type?
 
An uint, probably
Or ulong
Depends on the platform, msdn says
 
Does HTML have an element that should contain the source of a quote?
 
Your constant should be an int, not a char[]
 
@Cicada where does it say that?
 
@RadekSlupik <blockquote cite="http://..."></blockquote> ?
 
5:15 PM
@Cicada The source isn't necessarily a URL.
 
@Cicada he says operand types are incompatible ("HKL" and "unsigned int") (for operator!=)
 
Can be just the name of a person, for example.
Oh I got it. <cite>…</cite>
 
> Attribute Value Description DTD
cite URL Specifies the source of a quotation STF
 
> A URL that designates a source document or message for the information quoted. This attribute is intended to point to information explaining the context or the reference for the quote.
 
@MooingDuck > Just cast it. HKL is actually (void*), so reinterpret_cast<int> will do the trick.
 
5:17 PM
Any reason why std::string does not contain a toUpper function?
 
@Drise std::transform(str.begin(), str.end(), toupper)
 
@MooingDuck C++11?
 
@Drise beacuse toUpper is not an integeral part of what a string is.
 
@MooingDuck One could argue that find isn't either, yet it's a member of string
 
@Cicada It is a well-known fact that the interface of std::string has too much.
 
5:20 PM
@Drise no, that's C++03
 
@MooingDuck Ok, noted.
 
Btw, uppercasing both sides and comparing is not a proper way to do case-insensitive comparisons in general.
 
generally you would toLower
 
Same difference.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes How do you normally do it?
 
5:23 PM
I ask for a case insensitive comparison. FTR, I never did this in C++, only in C#.
 
@Collin As a note, unicode has 5-7 cases, not just upper, lower, and none. But string is useless for comparing unicode strings anyway
 
@RMartinhoFernandes There is not other way (that I know of) to do case insensitive compares.
 
That's just in Turkey. There's worse.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I guess I'm only thinking of ASCII, which is pretty narrow minded
 
5:25 PM
@Collin in ASCII you can toupper/tolower for comparisons
@RMartinhoFernandes it just dawned on me the unicode string library I'm writing has no way to perform case insensitive comparisons. Curses.
 
Do y'all just code up libraries for shits and possibly giggles?
 
Uh no
Because it's fun and/or useful
 
@Drise I DO
 
@Cicada Exactly, shits and giggles.
 
5:29 PM
May 29 at 8:31, by Cat Plus Plus
And in part to replace crappy software with my own, brilliant one.
 
@Cicada oh, no, I'm not stupid enough to use the libraries I make. I use standard ones.
 
lol
 
@Drise: It's the same reason some of us play Dwarf Fortress. We try something new or interesting and laugh when our dwarfs/libs start to do something terribly wrong.
 
When I explained part of how my iterators work, DeadMG and RMartinho both lectured me for about an hour.
 
@Zeta I think I need to start playing Dwarf Fortress then.
 
5:30 PM
@Drise you should, but be warned, the games is very intimidating to learn.
 
Btw, for any VB.NET fans who want to mess with someone
 
@Drise and if you don't have a numpad (like me), you have to remap keys to play
 
DF isn't as hard to learn as everybody says
 
I has numpad. Y U ASSUME I NOOBLIKE?
 
5:31 PM
@Pubby hard no, just intimidating
 
@MooingDuck I use mine. I just don't remake standard ones for no reason.
 
s/reciever/receiver
 
Thanks @Cicada
 
@Cicada There's no correct spellings in english. Just least incorrect.
 
i no rite
 
5:33 PM
remember when youtube did the ASCII video thing a few years back? Watching DF videos with that was giggles
 
@Cicada I can't change the project name... fml
 
lul
enjoy your refactoring
 
@Pubby you gotta admit opening a new game and seeing this is intimidating until you learn it.
 
user image
3
 
@MooingDuck And that's after you sat through genning a world
 
@MooingDuck Ok, now I don't want to play DF.
 
Perfect! A question for which I know the standard has a perfect example, just as I finish up the day. Repcap ensues.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes that takes forever nowdays :/
@Drise oh come on... it's fun.
 
@MooingDuck: !FUN! as in !!SIENCE!!. Fun as in "oh Armok, he created what?"
 
Yeah, it really is Fun.
 
5:39 PM
That cliff on that chart was originally EVE, not DF.
 
@Zeta I completely agree that we should start spelling science sience.
Yay! Moar points!
2
Q: Uninitialized values behave as expected on Linux but not Windows

DriseWhy do uninitialized "max" and "min" values work on Linux but not Windows? For example: double max, min, test; while (1) { std::cin >> test; if (test > max) max = test; if (test < min) min = test; } This works on Linux. I know for a fact because I've been using this ...

 
:4048803 no what? I could believe it.
 
@MooingDuck No! was because it came up with the comment, not my question. I was yelling at onebox for doing what I told it to do.
 
Btw, @MooingDuck, I finished my awesome_tuple last night.
Well, more like this morning.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Thanks for that. you're way to nice :)
 
5:45 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes why?
 
@rubenvb I should be meaner?
@MooingDuck Because I got everything working?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes No, by all means, stay nice :P
 
I wish we had better ways of minor punishments for drive-by-linking and animated gifs and C questions and such.
@RMartinhoFernandes why effort?
 
Ok, you're not making sense.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I nev<ERR EOF>
@RMartinhoFernandes why would you put forth the effort into finishing the awesome_tuple? That's just crazy.
 
5:47 PM
Mean robots make me want to call the Governator.
@MooingDuck AFAIU, he didn't put forth into anything.
 
@MooingDuck Because it's awesome (it has optimal layout)?
 
This makes me cry:

FILE* pFile = fopen(strFileName.c_str(), "r");

char line[256] = "";

for (int iHeader = 0; iHeader < 9; iHeader++)
fgets(line, sizeof line, pFile);
 
@rubenvb did you see if clang can compile it's type_traits header that you distribute with it?
 
Clang 3.1 is borken. Barfs on perfectly fine SFINAE.
 
@MooingDuck no. But I rebuilt a fresh one yesterday with Clang 3.2svn and GCC 4.7.0. Lets see.
 
5:49 PM
@rubenvb My clang build failed last night :(
 
@Collin how come? Maybe I can help.
 
@Drise really? Makes most people in the room angry
 
@rubenvb Some not enough argument error.. I probably just have to clean or build it with GCC instead
 
@MooingDuck It makes me cry because its part of a (C++) program ive been working on for ages now.
 
@Collin build it with clang. clang is better.
 
5:50 PM
It's on my laptop at home, I'll probably mess with it more tonight
 
@Drise so fix it
 
@MooingDuck I am building it with clang
 
@Collin I never got it to build with Clang itself either, at least on Linux. On Windows I think it worked last time I tried IIANM.
 
@rubenvb where can I download a prebuilt 3.1 clang from you again?
 
@MooingDuck I'm fixin to.
 
5:51 PM
@rubenvb I had built previous svn checkouts with clang, but this one died last night.. I also upgraded to fedora 17, so there might be some issues there
 
Wait... I just realized what I said... shit.
 
They did the whole usr merge thing in this version
 
@Zeta Wait a minute, the author of this image thinkgs WoW has a learning curve?
 
Guys, I just said 3.1 is borken!
 
@bamboon right here
 
5:52 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah, my compiled version is a 3.1 based SVN
 
I have a fix if there's an error on _S_destroy somewhere in an /ext/*.h file.
 
@Collin you upgraded to fed 17, too? did you buy chance try some qt gui stuff?
 
I might upload a new version soon though.
 
@bamboon You mean just running QT based programs or running the development tools?
 
@Collin no, developing some
 
5:53 PM
@bamboon Nah, don't have any of that installed. I can give it a shot tonight though
 
@RMartinhoFernandes all versions are broken in one way or another, and my current version chokes on include <type_traits>. I'll take the borken SFINAE.
 
But... but... borken SFINAE is bad!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes It's called SFIAE :)
 
@SamDeHaan: Cat Plus Plus already stated that this is in fact an older image, and the curve was originally for EVE instead DF.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes (the broken version) ^^
 
5:54 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes sure, but it's better than no type traits
 
@ScarletAmaranth FIFA Soccer!?
 
Can I ask why substitution failure is not an error?
 
@Drise It would lead to annoying problems with overloading.
 
@Zeta But I was pretending to do work then. I want my chance to pick at the graph.
 
@Drise that's how it works, look it up. If substitution failure was an error, a lot of neat code would be impossible.
 
5:56 PM
Better, I think I should ask what is sub failure?
 
The existence of 1 overload could break all others.
 
template<class T>
void func(T::type a) {}
void func(int b) {}
int main() {func(3);}
 
@StackedCrooked Im not following :) ?
 
@SamDeHaan: Oh, I'm sorry. But I don't remember a learning curve in WoW either ;).
 
@ScarletAmaranth when It sees if it can use func(T::type) with substituting an int for T, it fails, but that's not an error, because there's other functions to try.
 
5:57 PM
@ScarletAmaranth Taking @MooingDuck's example. The existance of void func(T::type a) {} would result in all other versions of func to become uncallable.
 
so: substitution failure is not an error.
 
@Zeta My point exactly. People either got it from day 1, or never got their gorram ass out of the gorram fire.
 
Oh, SFIAE -> Sub. failiure is an error. New broken version :)
 
@ScarletAmaranth clang 3.1 :D
 
5:59 PM
@StackedCrooked In fact, no, because that one can only be called with explicit template arguments.
Y U BAD EXAMPLES?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Right.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes the file is called "almost_static_if", but the word "static" is not on the page?
 
Make it template<typename T> void func(T a, typename T::type b = 0);
 
@RMartinhoFernandes picky picky, point stands
 
@MooingDuck Because that's just a not very hidden easter egg.
 
6:00 PM
I always bad examples.
 
@StackedCrooked Shall I pick on this one too?
You can't = int a parameter.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Yes, I'm always willing to learn.
 
Explaining SFINAE with enable_if is better, because you can clearly demonstrate the substitution failure — namely, the lack of enable_if<false>::type.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Lol. It's Friday.
 
6:01 PM
You can't = 0 if it's not convertible from int! (I think I'm getting cranky; the ape would be proud)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes pretty neat stuff there.
 
The Wikipedia article on SFINAE illustrates how it can be used to detect the existence of an inner type. Can std::enable_if be used for this as well?
 
No need for enable_if then.
 
enable_if is checking the existence of an inner type.
 
@StackedCrooked enable_if uses that same concept... an inner type.
 
6:03 PM
It either has ::type or not.
 
As soon as you detect the inner type, enable_if does what exactly for you then ?
 
Is there something like enable_if<std::has_subtype<T, U>::value>
 
@ScarletAmaranth cancels or allows the compiler to try to use that function overload.
 
@StackedCrooked No, that's misleading, and not very useful.
 
I need a toy C-like language to write a compiler/interpreter for to practice compiler design.
Any ideas?
 
6:04 PM
Make one.
 
@Maxpm How about C?
 
@MooingDuck Yeah but what's the point of using it if you can detect it prior to calling enable if ?
 
@SamDeHaan no
 
C is crappy.
 
@SamDeHaan I am not writing a C compiler. :|
 
6:04 PM
@Maxpm Pythonz.
 
@Maxpm forget C-like and go for Lua?
 
@Maxpm C89?
 
My compiler design class was in Python :/
 
@Maxpm C++?
 
Just make up a language. Nobody will use it anyway.
 
6:04 PM
@Maxpm Wide?
:P
 
@CatPlusPlus Yeah, and let's call it Wide.
 
Wide++.
 
Wide ? Puppy's language ? :D
 
@RMartinhoFernandes But isn't it the most basic feature of SFINAE?
 
@ScarletAmaranth Shhhhh.
 
6:05 PM
Well, I'm looking to do compiler design, not language design. At least not yet.
 
lol @DeadMG.
 
@StackedCrooked The point is exists<T::U> is never false.
Either it's true, or there's a substitution failure.
That's why it's misleading.
 
@Maxpm And what language are you going to be compiling ? COOL ?
 
@ScarletAmaranth "Cool Object Oriented Language"?
 
6:07 PM
That's what I'm trying to decide.
 
@Maxpm Language doesn't have to be good to work.
Just look at C++.
 
Ho ho ho.
 
See, that's a recursive acronym.
 
Classroom Object Oriented Language
 
@StackedCrooked I use something like that too. What kind of "cleaner" are you looking for? Getting rid of the macro? Or making the macro simpler?
 
6:08 PM
@Maxpm in my class all the language had was int (and it's operations), print and get. It was enough to learn RDPs.
 
I'd do LSL, but it doesn't really make sense as a standalone language.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Actually I need to take a few steps back in the discussion.
 
The first one is not feasible. The second is.
 
It's one big shit of a language that just happens to be easily compilable :)
 
This guy got really mad at me: stackoverflow.com/questions/10953254/…
 
6:09 PM
@MooingDuck I had something like that in a school project. It was called MSP (stood for "As Simple As Possible" in Portuguese).
 
@RMartinhoFernandes The original problem was the next step: creating a type selection mechanism. I have one that relies on std::enable_if. But std::enable_if also relies on SFINAE. However I wondered if that was normal.
 
@StackedCrooked Can you elaborate with code please (no need to be compilable, just get the idea across)?
 
@MooingDuck ow - that hurts
 
@StackedCrooked I was given an integer type selector on the type's size. If you think that could help you, I can post it.
@MooingDuck are there comments missing?
 
@rubenvb no, but see the question's history. He put comments to another answer in his answer
 
6:13 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes It's quite ugly though...
 
@MooingDuck oh, forum style. I would've flagged that as not an answer.
 
@StackedCrooked No, that's pretty much the best you can do. I'd take a boolean parameter instead, though.
 
So many people think SO is a forum...
 
@rubenvb I just rolled it back, and left a comment saying to put stuff like that in ideone :/
 
6:15 PM
I just got QtCreator to run CMake's ctest when I click the green arrow. How awesome is that?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Boolean parameter where?
 
@MooingDuck Something 10k+?
 
template<class Traits, bool Enable = HAS_TYPEDEF(Traits, NAME)> \
struct Select##NAME  { \
    typedef Default##NAME<Traits> NAME; \
}; \
template<class Traits> \
struct Select##NAME<Traits, true> { \
    typedef typename Traits::NAME NAME; \
};
@StackedCrooked On Select.
 
@SamDeHaan no, history and rollback is not 10k
 
Mmkay, I'll define a simple language and call it Pasta because it will be a bunch of spaghetti code.
 
6:16 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes I see. That's indeed a lot simpler! You eliminated the enabled_if :D
 
@rubenvb I know that. But I don't see any history on that question.
 
@rubenvb Checking the history of a deleted answer is, though.
 
@SamDeHaan on, the answer has been deleted. When/why did that happen?
 
@StackedCrooked Not a big improvement, but doesn't require enable_if.
 
@EtiennedeMartel aha. I feel powerful now.
 
6:17 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Great! It was exactly what I was looking for.
Silly that I couldn't think of it myself.
 
@Drise too much rep for you?
 
@StackedCrooked Well, glad to help :)
 
At some point I'll do another push to get to 10k rep. Rep farming is not that exciting.
 
He's got a grateful expertise: C# and .net questions are always highly voted on.
 
Now I'm leaving for dinner.
 
6:18 PM
@SamDeHaan I stopped farming once I could edit everything.
Not that I ever farmed at all.
 
In an executable with main() entry point, would i be wrong to assume that a single thread always enters the main() on execution?
 
I just had questions :P
 
@rubenvb Tag wikis?
 
@SamDeHaan no, "edit questions and answers".
 
@rubenvb Well, yes. But you said everything. I'm pointing out the thing that will inspire you to farm 20k
 
6:20 PM
@SamDeHaan lol tag wikis is 5k.
 
Backus-Naur form! /o/
 
I wish I could ask the mod why he deleted that answer. It was a bad answer, the answerer was rude in the comments, but the answer wasn't delete-worthy. :/
 
@rubenvb 20k to do tag wikis without needing 2 votes.
 
@SamDeHaan Where'd you find that? It's not listed here AFAICS: stackoverflow.com/privileges/approve-tag-wiki-edits
oh wait nvm
 
6:22 PM
I'm awfully slowpoke today
 
Sokay, it's Friday
 
I've been home all week. It's been Friday all week for me.
 
@rubenvb Yes....
 
Does this kind of asm really speed things up? pastebin.com/KPcRTbYL
it's a crt asinf implementation.
 
When I open a new tab in Firefox, it displays 9 images of recently visited websites. That irritates the crap out of me. How do I deactivate that?
 
6:35 PM
Is there some kind of viable facebook support or is all the help section a jungle?
 
@FredOverflow set the start page to google
@Cicada jungle. Nobody answers facebook questions.
 
@MooingDuck doesn't seem to help
 
@FredOverflow Top right corner, there's a little icon, click it.
 
@Cicada Thela hun ginjeet.
 
6:39 PM
@MooingDuck I need a fucking extension to display the home page when I open a new tab? Fuck you, Firefox!
 
You need to switch to gagle krum
4
 
@Collin thanks a billion
@Cicada seriously considering it
 
@FredOverflow about:config change browser.newtab.url
Firefox never makes something impossible.
To the extent possible.
 
@Cicada Vat?
 
@FredOverflow Er, I don't have that.
 
6:41 PM
@rubenvb Firefox never makes something very impossible.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Google Chrome
 
about:config is awesome.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Let's think about competing browsers here, eh?
 
@Collin Oooh.
I was not following discussion.
I just saw "gagle krum".
 
@CatPlusPlus I updated today, seems to be a recent "feature".
 
6:42 PM
And then I saw Firefox.
 
@CatPlusPlus Have you upgraded to 13.0 yet? It was new for that
 
I don't know. If it didn't update itself, then no.
 
@EtiennedeMartel How could you be in chat and not follow all twelve discussions?
 
I'm on 16.0a1 currently
Only version with x64 Windows build.
 
@rubenvb I have to use the current release at work, the proxy blocks all the others
 
6:43 PM
You really need 64-bit browser?
 
@CatPlusPlus I want 64-bit browser.
It is faster.
there's some benchmarks on the net somewhere to prove that.
 
I think 64-bit Chrome would kill my OS with only one tab open.
Lol benchmarks.
 
great, new clang gives me a tad more debug info on the segfault. Nothing useful though unfortunately :(:(
 
Hey guys
 
6:45 PM
@ManofOneWay Hey
 
Does a reinterpret_cast of unsigned int * to unsigned long * invoke UB?
 
Onoes, Fx, y u smooth scrolling.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I don't think so
 
@EtiennedeMartel Violates strict aliasing.
 
6:46 PM
What you do with the pointer from that point on is another thing
 
@FredOverflow Do you have any cool projects atm ?
 
He's from the future.
 
@CatPlusPlus And if on the current implementation, sizeof(int) == sizeof(long)?
 
@CatPlusPlus Tools -> Options -> Advanced -> General Tab
 
6:47 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Then you're lucky.
@Collin No, really?
 
@EtiennedeMartel You shouldn't rely on that
 
@EtiennedeMartel you're evil.
 
@CatPlusPlus Just helpin'....
 
I had it disabled and it enabled it.
I don't like that.
 
@CatPlusPlus Oh that's right, I forgot it existed in earlier versions
 
6:49 PM
@FredOverflow There's a button in the right upper corner that hides it.
 
@CatPlusPlus Man, I don't know when I first entered this chat, I believe it was about a year ago, and I believe you had like 11k back then? You have really been getting rep =)
 
Good job =)
 
@Cicada It's for a Windows only thing.
@rubenvb Not me, it's one of my colleague's doing.
 
Why are you reinterpret_casting that anyway?
 
6:57 PM
It's still mighty evil.
 
@CatPlusPlus Conversion from uintptr_t to DWORD_PTR.
 
Yeah but WHY.
 
I DON'T KNOOOOOOOW.
 

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