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12:00 AM
The best way to think of the ideology is a cancer that has metastasized.
Yes you can cut out the main tumor. But it's everywhere in lower quantities. And it will keep coming back.
 
actually the only way is to educate all the humans so that they'd become atheists
 
It may not kill you if you keep suppressing it, but wiping it out is virtually impossible unless you kill the entire person.
 
but it's not possible with current Earth population
 
@Abyx With enough nukes, you can probably do it.
 
and you just cannot catch shepherds and educate them
@Mysticial you cannot nuke uneducated radical believers in major countries
 
12:04 AM
@Abyx Those would be cancer cells. Sure, you can nuke them, but you'll kill everything else around it too.
 
welp. nazism. the final solution.
you don't need the nukes for that
 
@Mysticial I dunno. There's a theory that societies mature. The "Christian countries" (Europe, NA, etc.) spent time killing not only others but in lots of internal fighting centuries ago. That's slowly reached a state of semi-calm. The Islamic countries are (arguably) following a similar pattern, but about six centuries behind.
 
and btw the first step would be banning all religions.
@JerryCoffin Islam is totally different from Christianity. The only common thing is that both are "religions"
 
@JerryCoffin That's (probably) because they have a common enemy - the radical Islam ideology. Once there's no common enemy, there's no reason to unite anymore. And everybody goes back to war.
 
@Abyx Haven't really read the Bible much, have you? The main difference is that (most) Christians ignore the more barbaric parts of the Bible and its laws about how people should live, concentrating instead on the parts they find palatable. I have, on several occasions, had quite a bit of fun pulling Christian's chains by telling them I was following the requirements of the Bible (without pointing out that the things I said I was doing actually came from the Bible).
 
12:10 AM
Christianity is about "love" and "good" deed which lead to good afterlife. Like burning witches or crusades. Islam is about dominance. Jihad (war) ends only when all infidels are subjugated. During the war all means are fine.
@JerryCoffin You probably mean the pre-J.Christ parts of the Bible, which are kinda deprecated.
 
@Abyx In both cases, the holy books contain enough vague, ambiguous, self-contradictory, etc., requirements that just about anybody can pick out what they want it to be about, and find justification for the position they've decided to take.
 
@JerryCoffin yes, they're vague, ambiguous, and self-contradictory, but the end goals are clear and they're different.
Christianity doesn't imply war on infidels. It doesn't really care about foreign infidels.
 
@Abyx Kinda deprecated meaning (just as I already said) that people ignore it because they think it's barbaric. As far as what's in the Bible itself, there's a handful of passages where Jesus contradicts fairly specific bits of "the old law"--but only a few bits and pieces. The rest is ignored because people want to.
@Abyx You surely haven't read much of the Bible. Large parts of the old testament are devoted to stories of God killing infidels on behalf of his chosen people, helping them to fulfill his command to "fill the earth and dominate it."
 
@JerryCoffin ok. but it took many centuries to deprecate all those things. And islam is more resistant to changes.
anyways, we don't have much time. world is getting smaller, powers weapons are getting more accessible
 
12:38 AM
0
Q: What is an example of implicit declaration in terms of static type binding?

pleeI am currently studying the programming topic of type binding. I understand that type binding is the association between a variable and a type and that there are 2 types of type binding. Static type binding (type binding that occurs during compile time) and Dynamic type binding (type binding that...

what o.O
 
Same answer is given in stackoverflow.com/questions/13361519/… within the "Simplify and profit". How did I miss those?! — Adam Badura 3 hours ago
Thanks for self answering w/credit. I didn't have the time (and frankly, I don't like Lex that much...) — sehe 18 secs ago
 
@sehe That reminds me, are you aware of any plans of "upgrading" karma (i.e. karma-x3)
 
Yes, I'm aware of the absense of such plans
 
Aug 24 at 20:38, by TemplateRex
@sehe is there any generator equivalent to Karma in Spirit-X3?
Check around there
 
12:47 AM
Thx
 
1:27 AM
Sarcasm is just another free service...
"The only thing you should be looking at when performing big-O analysis is loops." Really? So in your world recursion doesn't affect complexity? Traveling salesman and towers of Hanoi are now O(1). Back up this assertion, and you've just proven that P = NP. Congratulations. You're assured a prominent place in the history of computer science. — Jerry Coffin 43 secs ago
 
@JerryCoffin It's also turing complete. So you can do everything in O(1) - no exceptions.
 
 
4 hours later…
5:12 AM
@sehe Thanks. How have I missed it? Which library is it in? (cc @milleniumbug)
 
5:32 AM
Was the design decision to only accept const char* and its equivalents to avoid the potential for code that tries to modify a string literal?
Half of my use cases involve mutating the viewed string.
 
This is kind of cool:
 
6:07 AM
@PatrickM'Bongo in the trailer for next week’s update (won’t link, too spoilery) we’ve certainly seen some skritt
 
6:28 AM
> his damage is so high you could calculate it in [final boss] per minute
 
Pedantic moment: you always can, irrespective of damage output. Reals exist for a reason.
Also lol that Spanish subtitle
 
it naturally heightens drama
 
Gives it a conquistador feel
 
sure hope we get pirate-themed loot booty though, my guild needs it
 
Ven
6:49 AM
helo
 
7:04 AM
How does the following code work?
#include <iostream>
using namespace std;

int diff(int x, int y)
{
    int result;
    result = x - y;
}

int main()
{
    int num1 = 50;
    int num2 = 3;
    int result = 0;
    result = diff( num1, num2);
    cout << result;
    return 0;
}
Does C++ by default return the last calculation or something?
 
Ven
@sehe @Xeo :(
 
Xeo
By default that gives you UB. IOW, it doesn't work.
 
Ven
I was asking for a bin, tbqh. But that works too.
 
7:27 AM
morning together
 
Ven
o/
 
user1804599
8:03 AM
You should move return 0; out of main and into diff.
 
user1804599
Then it works without increasing the file size.
 
@rightfold XD
 
@caps #include <boost/utility/string_ref.hpp>
 
8:29 AM
@cst1992: No, C is small and beautiful. C++ on the other hand... — Thomas Padron-McCarthy 8 hours ago
what a bait
 
nwp
8:45 AM
today I wondered why there is no general rule to implicitly add std::move on last use of a variable like there is with NRVO
it would remove almost all explicit uses of std::move
one could even go further and implicitly move before assignments
 
Ven
@nwp there's something in He-man's book about that.
 
Because C++ is bad at move semantics and doesn't have destructive moves (those two statements are equivalent).
 
Ven
fuck destructive moves, enough UB already.
.oO( but then it's easier to debug with a crash )
 
adding destructive moves to the current system would spell disaster
 
Ell
@Griwes there could be a rule to implicitly add std move without needing destructive moves
 
8:50 AM
unless someone can argue that sometimes you actually want that last use to be a copy-from...
 
@nwp because of a misguided ~~generality~~
 
nwp
sometimes the receiver takes a non-const lvalue reference and then stuff doesn't compile, in that case one would have to not implicitly move
 
broken code
 
nwp
a warning that warns on "implicitly added move would be invalid" could catch quite a few bugs that now are not caught
 
Anybody up for a beer or two at Meeting C++ in November, like last year? @Xeo @AndyProwl @sbi are you going again?
 
Xeo
8:53 AM
I'll be there
 
Unlikely for me this year
:(
 
nwp
699€? really?
 
@Xeo :-)
@AndyProwl :-(
 
Xeo
@nwp You're not supposed to pay for it yourself. :P
 
@nwp early bird was less
 
Xeo
8:56 AM
Also, it's cheaper if you booked Early Bird
499 IIRC
 
price will go up even more start of October
@Xeo yeah
 
Xeo
Fun fact: I got the very last available ticket last year.
 
heh gz
not sure if it's booked out this year
otoh it's still two months to go
 
@Ell maybe. dunno
 
only two months :S gotta start preparing...
 
Ell
9:02 AM
@Griwes I think there are use cases for non destructive move
I'm probably wrong though
 
Anybody up for a beer or two at CppCon? :P Or is the Lounge representation at the conference going to be just one person this time around? :P
@Ell do throw them at me
 
nwp
@GiorgioGambino wrong room go here
 
ok
thaks!
 
Ell
@Griwes how about a thread handle for a thread pool
Actually no that's terrible
Errr
 
9:04 AM
:D
 
> with Functor = std::integer_sequence<int, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9>;
I think something went wrong
 
Ell
There must be one use case :V
I'll think about it
 
:D
I think you were supposed to give me a use case for something else, too, and didn't, but I can't remember what that was.
@Ell I think you were supposed to find an example where typeof(type) = type doesn't work. :P
 
Ell
9:29 AM
@Griwes I dont remember either
@Griwes ohh
It is broken without universe polymorphism
I'm playing COD but I'll try that again later
 
@Ell ventures to read upon this
> However, the type (n : Level) → Set n, which is a valid Agda expression, does not belong to any universe. Indeed, the expression denotes a function mapping levels to universes, so if it had a type, it should be something like Level → Universe, where Universe is the collection of all universes.
> But since the elements of Universe are types, Universe is itself a universe, so we have Universe : Universe. This leads to circularity and inconsistency. In other words, just as we cannot have a set of all sets, we also can’t have a universe of all universes.
I like that circularity!
> As a consequence, although the expression (n : Level) → Set n is a type, it does not have a type.
This is inconsistent.
Frankly I can't really imagine an actual problem caused by Russell's paradox in a typeof(type) = type typesystem.
The way I see it, if you don't ignore the Russell's paradox, you'll always end up at a point where there's some inconsistency that makes my life miserable, like types in C++ not having a type, or the aforementioned (n : Level) -> Set n not having a type.
The latter is probably not going to bite me as soon as the former, but still. :P
 
9:54 AM
workaround isn’t even applicable in my case because I go up two bases ugh
I need more class cope
 
or rethink your type structure
 
@ratchetfreak what is there to rethink?
 
to reduce the need for such juggling of decltypes
 
it’s a reduced example
why do I have to point that out?
 
10:09 AM
@Xeo Regex is exactly that O_O. Just different language.
@Mysticial I like this one.
 
Ell
10:39 AM
@Griwes can I see some vapor syntax?
 
@Ell That does what? :P
 
Ell
something for concepts
but just generally :p
I want to see what it looks like
 
Design question(s). Should I make "UTF-16 w/ BOM" a separate encoding from "UTF-16", or should I have encode_with_bom/decode_with_bom functions instead? If "UTF-16 w/BOM" is a distinct encoding, should it have max width 2 or 3 (2 implies that the BOM is emitted on its own, which requires a flush_encoding_state function to emit the last code unit; 3 implies that the BOM is emitted together with the first code point instead)?
 
I always thought that it’s more confusing as a separate encoding than it should be. and it also leads to an unnecessary combinatorial explosion.
 
@Ell function nth(n : int, v : vector(auto)) => v.at(n); <- here's a random artificial example.
 
10:42 AM
@LucDanton I could make a bom_encoding<Base> template to avoid the explosion. Not a biggie.
 
Could also be something like function nth(n : int, v : vector(auto)) { return v.at(n); }.
 
(Actually my ulterior plan, if I went with the distinct encoding approach)
 
and the 'okay so it has a BOM, but when is it emitted' thing you mention is exactly the kind of confusion I dislike. I prefer the separate functions
 
(Also, the max widths are 4 and 6; my bad)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I meant conceptually
 
Ell
10:43 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think you should have UTF-16-BE, UTF-16-LE and UTF-16-BOM
and it should have max width 4
 
@Ell So with flush?
 
or, say, something weird like function log_and_return_nth(n : int, v: vector(auto)) { let nth = v.at(n); logger.log(logger.debug, nth); return nth; } if you're into that. :D
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah with flush
 
Dunno what exactly you're looking for @Ell :P
 
I really don't like the idea of flush because it makes it incompatible with iterators.
 
Ell
10:44 AM
@Griwes how do you declare a concept?
or do you just have typeclasses?
@R.MartinhoFernandes hmm that's a point
 
is that the flattening of compressed arrays thing?
 
@Ell I... don't have a concrete syntax I'm fixed on yet. ;p
 
Ell
okay :V
 
@LucDanton No, just that say, a range-based for loop would never flush.
Or any stdlib algorithm for that matter.
 
@Ell this has been a random bikeshed I did a while back
 
Ell
10:47 AM
that's... interesting :P
 
Ven
syntax ugly as fuck
 
but I'm no longer sure of most of that. :P
@Ven I thought you like lots of ()s. :D
 
Ven
nice one. :P
"pick one"
 
@LucDanton This is an issue even for a hypothetical 1-to-1 w/ BOM encoding.
Oh, i guess it can work if the iterators track whether they are end iterators or not.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah I have no idea/opinion on what copy(in0, out); copy(in1, out); should do
 
10:49 AM
Primarily I'm no longer sure that with is how I want to declare typeclass arguments.
 
So there's a right-before-the-end iterator that emits the last code point.
 
I'll probably invent some "primary" syntax for that for sanity.
 
Yet more horrendous state machine transitions, but that's something I've just given up on trying to make non-horrendous. I have learned to love the bomb.
 
Also, despite me sometimes voicing concern over the need to see whether a thing in C++ is a template or not, I don't really have that kind of problems for Vapor, and function foo(bar : SomeTypeclass); will declare a thing that can be both runtime- and compile-time-polymorphic on the type of bar.
(Assuming there's no operations that require more knowledge about its type.)
But I really haven't gotten down to how exactly the syntax will work out.
I want to first get some basic working thing that I can experiment with.
Then you can all be expected to get pinged to look at bikeshed branches. :P
 
Ell
hurry up and write this language griwes
before I do for uni xD
 
10:52 AM
lol
 
Ell
mine would be much prettier ofc
 
I'm thinking how exactly should my analysis->codegen IR structures look like.
While also configuring a new system that I need to work when I hop on a plane from Frankfurt on Saturday.
 
@fredoverflow This article forgot to mention that for_each(..., toupper) is prone to undefined behaviour.
 
While also being preoccupied with... err... things of... err... social nature. :P
 
Even the transform that is insinuated as the fix suffers from the same issue.
 
11:05 AM
somewhat long; do I have to read?
 
No.
> One main difference is that subjects were trained mainly in the underscore style and were all programmers.
The conclusion is that people familiar with underscores read underscores better.
vOv
 
gaze plots are always fun though
which I suppose means that male programmers should probably use an editor that displays a crotch behind each word
can’t find better than this as a source, if we want to call it that
this one should be filed already
 
Ven
11:20 AM
n3v3rm1nd
> lucdanton 2015-12-09 10:25:21 UTC
 
> User account creation filtered due to spam.
lol
 
mmh I don’t have a workaround though
7GB of RAM and 5 minutes of compilation to report a typo, cool
10
 
11:41 AM
Working with Eigen is weeeird.
 
11:53 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes toupper doesn't work with utf-8 anyways
 
> If you just damage the electrical system you could go down for battery.
 
12:25 PM
> Made a 80% loss on purpose.
3
> on purpose.
 
purposely mistaken
 
12:39 PM
forgot that you could only log on to windows dev portal using IE on windows system ...
and I was using chrome on mac
 
@Telkitty wow vendor lock-in much?
 
only for windows, apple doesn't care as much, android is even less regulated ...
 
@PatrickM'Bongo it’s a trick to make the price of gems go down
 
funny thing is that android overtook ios to become #1 in regards to the market share
 
@Abyx It doesn't work with Latin-1 either.
It pretty much only works with ASCII and EBCDIC.
 
12:46 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes isn't it locale-aware?
 
It has UB for negative values of char.
 
or was it std::toupper(char, std::locale)
right, there will be the char->int conversion
who would use it anyways. libraries like qt would have proper conversion tools.
 
nwp
opening 2 text files with the same content in VS2015 renders differently
there is an extra 1 pixel row between the first and second line in one of the files
it annoys me
 
call the typesetting police
 
or use a different editor
 
1:08 PM
Do you people have cameras in your office? As in, cameras the employer can use to see what people are doing.
 
nwp
no, that would be illegal
at least I'm pretty sure it would be
there are some corner cases like stores where you can "accidentally" watch your employees, but that's about it
 
could be legal if it's in the contract, but why work there
 
if it's in the contract then yeah that's completly legal
But like Aby said, why work there
 
@GillBates Not really.
Usually having a contract doesn't give you a pass on existing laws.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah, depends on the laws
 
1:22 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Unless you're... you guessed it, in the US!
@BenjaminGruenbaum Yes
But they are for security surveillance, not spying on employees
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum We have them only pointed at doors, i.e. security related cameras. There are no cameras to survey workers.
 
@PatrickM'Bongo that's what they all say
 
@PatrickM'Bongo are they pointed at your work area?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum In its general direction yes, plus at the entrace.
 
And you're fine with it?
 
1:28 PM
Yes, why would I care?
I don't think any can see my screen, and I'm pretty sure management has other ways of spying on me anyway.
As I said, I don't think it's for spying on employees. If that were the case, I wouldn't be fine with it. I just assume they don't spy on me.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Only at the entrances.
 
I am sure some of my former employers have read my emails
but consider that I say plenty of dumb things on public internet, it's not so much so of an issue
 
1:52 PM
Given coroutines, it becomes possible to make a wrapper that provides an input iterator interface over an output iterator, right? (and vice versa).
A "pipe", so to speak.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes generators, but yeah, why not
 
Impossible otherwise, though :/
 
yep
 
K, just sanity-checking.
 
output iterator is just a callback
no need to actually "iterate" it
 
1:56 PM
Better question: is there a reasonable scenario where one would want to view a stream of code units as an input range?
I was considering things like compression or encryption.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes to read code units, presumably
 
there are different names for such things, coroutines, fibers, ...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes sure there is. but what's that "stream" of yours? a non-standard one?
 
@LucDanton Good point. But I'm thinking exclusively of scenarios where you need to apply stream transforms on it, other than decoding.
@Abyx Oh yeah, not the standard meaning of "stream". The computer science meaning.
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes isn't this more likely to be done at the char level and not code units?
 
2:02 PM
a typical parser uses a stream of tokens
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes compression/encryption is about bytes, so you'd have to encode them first
 
@Abyx Code units are the output of encoding.
 
Ell
@Abyx code units are already the encoded form
but still semantically different than "bytes" I think
 
why stress that they're code units then?
 
@Ell True those are likely to make sense only for byte-sized code units, but larger ones can be trivially transformed.
 
Ell
2:05 PM
I think it's more likely that for compression or encryption, the use case will be compressing it a chunk at a time anyway
but idk
I would think that the user will read x bytes into a buffer
then encrypt/compress/etc. them
then read the next x bytes
 
@Abyx Because the semantics of being the output of text encoding are the only ones I care about. Scenarios where you use streams of bytes with different meanings I don't care.
 
user1804599
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes stream transforms as in?
 
Well, pipelining then
 
2:07 PM
If compression and encryption can be exposed as output iterators, I don't need an input range. It's trivial to write an output iterator that forwards the output.
 
I don't think I understand the problem anyway (:D)
 
@PatrickM'Bongo Basically I'm wondering whether I want Range<code_unit> encode(Range<code_point>) or whether void encode(Range<code_point>, OutputIterator<code_unit>) is enough.
(Note that the latter can be built on top of the former via std::copy, but not vice-versa without some kind of coroutine)
The latter is much harder to implement.
(Source: pain from implementing it)
 
Why is it harder?
 
Flatmap.
The iterators become messy as they need to cache the code units for each code point, and track when they have all been iterated over and when a new code point needs to be encoded into that cache, etc.
 
actually it's should be a straightforward refactor
extract all locals that you keep into a struct
 
2:15 PM
that sounds so trivially doesn't it
 
While writing two things into an output iterator is trivial.
Even writing a variable number of code units per code point into an output iterator is trivial.
 
then refactor the while so there is one write to the output per loop
keep refactoring until it is at the end of the loop
 
Are you done after that?
 
No, you still need to return 42
 
and now your loop body is the bulk of the popfront function
 
2:17 PM
"straightforward" you said.
 
my god it’s genious
 
Output iterators => the worst case scenario is trivial.
Input iterators => CPS-ish horror.
 
Okay, does returning this Range thing require dynalloc? If yes, that's something you can avoid with the OutputIterator version (but I guess you knew that already, so I guess it does not)
 
Dynamic allocations can be avoided entirely unless you invent an exotic encoding of unbounded width.
 
So what is the backing storage of that Range<code_unit>? I don't follow
 
2:20 PM
Just reinvent vector with a fixed-size backing storage github.com/libogonek/ogonek/blob/devel/include/ogonek/detail/…
 
@PatrickM'Bongo a few fields and a reference to the input
 
@PatrickM'Bongo Each iterator holds one of those partial_arrays with all the code units for one code point and an index to track where in the array it is, along with an iterator to the underlying range. When the index overflows the array, it encodes the next code point into that partial_array and resets position to 0.
@ratchetfreak Now god forbid you drop the assumption that the input is well-formed.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes well straightforward if you are familiar with splitting up loops code to run in chunks across multiple invocations
 
It quickly ratchets up to Lovecraftian horror, while the version with an output iterator remains trivial.
 
that's the price for having to extract locals and the prog counter elsewhere
 
2:28 PM
No. Having to extract locals and the prog counter elsewhere is the price, not the goal.
@ratchetfreak Also, this is handwaving.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes that refactor is a doozy I'll admit
basically you want to have a loop that is while(hasMoreOutput){/**/; output.write(code_unit);}
 
And there are other problems this approach brings. I've ranted about them some years back when I was implementing them. No need to go over it again; while the transformation is something a computer can do (so yeah, straightforward in a sense), the effort is incomparable to the triviality of output iterators.
 
controlling your own loop makes everything much easier
 
I still have to investigate where the problem of exponential iterator size can be mitigated by sentinels, but it is my understanding that it is one of the problems they solve.
 
@Luc Richard est développeur GCC, et bine tranquillement son petit potager. Mais voilà qu'on dérange Richard, qui s'exclame alors : "J'aimerais qu'on me laisser Biener !".
 
2:41 PM
I want std::pair<InIt, InIt> std::cocopy(OutIt out).
2
(uncopy?)
35 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
If compression and encryption can be exposed as output iterators, I don't need an input range. It's trivial to write an output iterator that forwards the output.
I think I convinced myself with this.
Thanks for rubber-ducking.
 
@PatrickM'Bongo arrête tes combines stp
 
Though I'll run into this problem later on anyway :(
 
@LucDanton well okay
 
if you have native coroutine/fiber support then you can replace each output.write with a yield return
 
I'm trying to avoid that, though. Could use Boost.Coroutine, but the dependency on Boost.Context irks me.
It feels wrong to need to build stuff with inline assembly to support something that is entirely architecture independent.
Maybe I should just man up.
 
2:52 PM
coroutines aren't fully not architecture independent as you end up playing with the stack and context registers
 
No manual entry for up.
 
@ratchetfreak Nonsense.
s/coroutines/functions/?
They're not architecture-independent because they're not in the language. That's the only reason.
Abstracting the architecture is one of the benefits of using a high-level programming language.
 
user1804599
20
Q: Documentation edit is a question

Neil A.I was looking at this edit to the AngularJS documentation, and to me it looks like a question. I rejected the edit, saying it was a question. Should I take any other actions? When I looked at the user's profile who made this edit, I saw that this was his/her first action on SO, ever since the acc...

 
user1804599
lol
 
creating a coroutine will create a entirely new and separate stack for the coroutine to use
 
2:57 PM
s/coroutine/thread/
 
@milleniumbug stackful coroutine
 
@ratchetfreak ever heard the term "stackless coroutine"
 
user406009
@Griwes I think you mean "crippled coroutines" :P
 
@ratchetfreak What @milleniumbug said.
 
@Lalaland they still exist and they are coroutines, so "creating a coroutine will create a [...] stack" isn't necessarily true, which is what I said. :P
 

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