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5:00 PM
@RobertGrant Trump has a real agenda?
 
@RobertGrant python 2.8 is real?
 
user559633
@RobertGrant After 9AM EDT (1300 UTC) typically until 8PM 000UTC.
 
That perpetual motion machine really did work?
 
A 5 ounce bird really could carry a 1lb coconut?
 
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
 
5:06 PM
Only the blue ones. No, yelloowwwwwww!
 
@tristan so did you play No Man's Sky last night?
I was really enjoying it.
It was already starting to feel a little repetitious though, but that might just be because I'm taking forever to get out of the tutorial.
 
user559633
@davidism I didn't -- I'm waiting it out.
 
user559633
Actually, exactly for the reasons of your last statement.
 
@PM2Ring Sadly, that looks like it only works for single files. Most of my grep usage is grep -Inr <common term> .
 
You made a pretty good comparison with the Mass Effect planet exploration.
 
user559633
5:15 PM
Broken watch, etc.
 
I couldn't figure out how to start a Twitch stream from the PS4, but I'll look again. I kind of want to get out of the tutorial and figure out more of the mechanics first though.
 
user559633
I had an "uh oh" moment when the game devs talked about how their next steps will probably be building out a "base creation" system.
 
cbg
I need some help with a database sqlite3 'database is locked' error...
 
user559633
"We listened to feedback from the community, and in FIFA 2017, there will be an accounting management subsystem"
 
Anyone here specialist for sqlite3?
 
user559633
5:18 PM
@Alex The answer to that is in the room rules.
 
I doubt that
 
user559633
@Alex No, really, it is.
 
I do not understand
 
user559633
Just ask your question.
 
which you would know if you read the room rules ;)
 
5:21 PM
I am getting an error 'database is locked' in a 7000 line code. I tried to create a piece of code to reproduce an example without success. Shall I post the 7000 lines of code? I gues not, nobody wants to look at this code. What else can I do? How to I get specific database-related help to be able to debug this problem on my own?
 
does it only show up in the 7000 loc?
 
user559633
@Alex Post the relevant code and context.
 
My suspiction was that I have two processes which acces the same database. But with some example code this just works fine
self.conn.commit()
thats it
 
user559633
The relevant code is one statement? Give me a break
 
Called by two different processes. self.conn are two different objects
sel.conn = sqlite3.connect(db_name, timeout=10)
 
user559633
5:22 PM
Good luck
 
Hey, I remember this conversation from last week. I'm still sticking with my bet of "race condition" and if this turns out to be the case you have my sincerest condolences.
 
How to check this race condition?
 
By debugging and reasoning about how your code executes. See stackoverflow.com/help/mcve.
 
That's why you have my condolences. There's no easy solution.
 
user559633
You cut the problem into chunks you can test in isolation and debug.
 
5:24 PM
This will me take weeks
 
DSM
That seems unlikely.
 
user559633
And you want someone in here to just make a guess?
 
There must be a reason for this error. Someone might know
 
If you cut the size of the code in half with each debug cycle, you can do it in 13 iterations.
 
What is the reason for this error
 
5:24 PM
@Alex Understand what the reasons for race conditions are
 
user559633
Garlic.
 
:O ^ very bad sign
 
user559633
cbg
 
cbg
 
5:26 PM
cbg
 
@Alex The database is locked. That's what it told you. If you want someone to actually walk you through fixing it, I'll be happy to charge you a consulting fee :)
cabbage again(?)
 
I want to try No Man's Sky but with everything I have due at end of month (and one final, final exam) but think I can afford to get it time wise...yet
 
I am cheaper than Wayne, special discount today, 75 € / h + local VAT if applicable.
 
Step 2 for Terry's bunny posts is to reply to people who reply to the kicked user with more bunnies.
 
user559633
I kicked Alex. The question he has open points him/her to the FAQ and he/she has not made an attempt to MVCE. My magic crystal ball of experience has told me that the asker will want more psychic debugging without putting in effort.
 
5:27 PM
The posts will multiply like rabbits.
 
@AnttiHaapala hah, that's funny, because I was going to offer $100 USD/h ;)
 
that's why I said I am cheaper than you
 
user559633
I so deeply want the wood sawing noise to stop that I'm considering going to my neighbors house and offering to help them finish the work for free.
 
user559633
You get what you pay for :P
 
yes, me.
 
5:29 PM
:D
 
Not nice to have kicked me
 
perhaps I should be doing codementor again
 
lulz
 
I have made an effort to create a MVCE
 
user559633
@Alex Ask a better question and don't expect to put in more effort into solving your problem than you are currently putting in, and you'll be fine.
 
5:30 PM
Why do people who get kicked think the first thing we want to here when they rejoin is a vague complaint about being kicked rather than either moving on or acknowledging that they weren't doing very well?
 
@Alex you've got 2 choices: either there is a lock file left around, or then you've opened the db twice
lsof or fuser might be of help on Unixen
 
Question: How can I check if I have opened a DB twice...
 
user559633
@Alex No, you opened a question without specifics on stackoverflow and did not create an MCVE that others could test. You're not entitled to any free help.
 
user559633
@Alex By looking at your own code.
 
(hopefully I will not kicked again...)
 
5:31 PM
"I have made an effort to create an MCVE which this message is too small to contain."
 
They said they've opened the db in 2 different processes, so it's the latter. Since the relevant error is on the commit, then it's a race condition
I'd recommend reading up on sqlite a bit more before thinking of your primary question
 
But I always read that the sqlite3 database is quite safe against such things.
 
@davidism It's kind of like getting downvotes with comments explaining why you're wrong, and arguing you're right because you feel you are
 
Well yes, it is safe. That's why it gave you an error instead of corrupting your data
 
@Alex it is safe
because of the lock.
 
5:33 PM
What is a lock? What do I need this for?
 
SQLite is explicitly stated to not be good (at least by default) at concurrent writes. But it is safe about them.
 
user559633
@Alex Read the FAQ linked on your question. Put in some effort.
 
@Alex if you need 2 processes writing to the same DB, then SQLite is not the database you need.
 
Oh I did. Should I decribe what I have tried?
Not useful I would say
 
Yeah, I agree, this conversation isn't useful. Bye.
 
user559633
5:35 PM
@Alex You'd prefer for others to waste their time so you don't need to put in effort on solving your own problem? I think we're done.
 
user559633
Crystal ball += 1
 
Well, it's not useful in that it doesn't answer the question of "how do I redesign my program so I don't need concurrent writes", it just tells you how it does locking
 
user559633
It's done :)
 
that was unfortunate. I wonder how much of Alex's 7k rep came from SOD ;)
 
user559633
Garlic * 1000. Moving on
 
5:36 PM
Dang it, now I want some garlic flavored.... food
lol
 
Garlic gum
 
My brother got some prank garlic candy from the back of some magazine
probably Boy's Life
anyway, it was delicious
 
hmm...garlic fries might be a good idea for dinner (sweet potato)
 
@WayneWerner I dunno about SOD, but on SO: 415 questions, 62 answers.
 
So see you next week, or next month
 
5:40 PM
Oh wow.
 
I will do that MCVE, and come back
 
I have 537 answers and 215 questions. I actually thought that I kind of ask a lot.
 
user559633
@Alex The responses, increasing less patient, are because you have feedback and suggestions that will greatly help you.
 
Yes I have
Maybe I will try something else.
But to kick someone because he has no MCVE, well...
 
user559633
If you are trying to write from multiple processes, start there with your MCVE and you'll probably get a good idea of what's happening.
 
5:41 PM
I did, tristan
 
user559633
@Alex No, it was your attitude.
 
cbg
 
I have created two processes which write to the same database...
 
@Alex It's because you're constantly asking, rather than doing some of your own research
Google is your friend
 
user559633
And that you didn't want to put in the effort to make it easier for others to help you. I have a feeling that's what's making this seem like a kicked bee's nest.
 
5:42 PM
I think I have exlpained this. But I was not able to reproduce my problem
what to google?
 
Whatever you are planning to type in here
 
user559633
@Alex Then you did not write an accurate MCVE.
 
I tried, do you think I just sit here and wait for someone to get me the solution?
Yes, I did not write an accurate MCVE
 
if you don't find an answer to your question, then ask
 
This will take me a week or a month, I do not know
Maybe I never will have an accurate MCVE!
 
5:43 PM
@Alex It looks like your question just isn't a good fit for the room. Please take it elsewhere. You're welcome to ask about other Python-related questions, but this is going nowhere. Please drop it.
 
Then what? Abandon the project?
 
user559633
@Alex If others can't get an accurate view of where you're stuck, don't know what you tried, and what you're changing, what are you expecting of others?
 
user559633
Thundering herd problem right now I think. If I was Alex, I'd feel pretty stressed by the number of instructions I'm getting.
 
Maybe someone experienced a similar problem so I can try something specific. I do not expect people to spend a lot of time, since there is no accurate MCVE. So I do not understand the general problem here
 
5:45 PM
Many questions can be asked of Google. "What is a database lock in sqlite?"
 
I just wanted some idea
 
@WayneWerner let the ROs handle it.
 
haha Wayne, funny!
 
@Alex the fact that we're still at this point of the discussion means that there's a problem
 
@AndrasDeak let the ROs handle it.
 
user559633
5:45 PM
@Alex The FAQ linked on your question is a good starting point as it explicitly calls out what would lead to this. Understand concurrency in databases, locks, and where multi-process might cause issues.
 
@davidism Yeeeeaaah, I think I'm gonna back off of this one. Too much garlic even for me :P
 
@davidism I saw the first one, only within reaction time. Don't worry, I'm done.
 
Strange, I can't load any new pages in my browser but my connection to chat is fine. I wonder how this can be.
 
@Kevin Don't try to reload chat ;)
 
user559633
@Kevin Sounds like DNS
 
5:47 PM
also, because websockets are persistent
 
@Kevin websockets are obviously magic tunnels that don't require the normal tubes.
 
so as long as your connection doesn't get severed...
 
user559633
It's not DNS

There's no way it's DNS

It was DNS

- sysadmin haiku
5
 
If only we could harness them to send more than bits.
@Alex wow, you really can't drop it like I politely asked, can you? Bye.
 
DSM
So I'm cythonizing a version of an existing tool. How ugly would you find it if I did something like new_function.__doc__ = oldfunction.__doc__ + "\n\nNOTE: This is the cythonized version" or something?
 
5:48 PM
Fuego!
 
user559633
Ha, that's what I get for trying to be nice :)
 
@DSM why not use functools.wraps then new_function.__doc__ +=
 
@DSM seems fine. Why does it need to be called out?
 
Maybe I'm misunderstanding wraps but it doesn't look helpful in this case
 
DSM
@AnttiHaapala: I actually don't know how well wraps plays with cythonized functions, to be honest. @davidism: if by "called out" you mean "distinguished from the original", they're going to be living side-by-side for a while, and if you have two functions with the same signature I like the idea that the docs explain the difference.
 
user559633
5:52 PM
 
user559633
I name this image "web programming 2016"
 
@tristan is that illustration from the "Sloth" book?
 
^ any programming 2016
 
The best resource for web programming is the X that's hidden on that bar. Just close it all, give up, walk away...
 
5:53 PM
@DSM that makes sense.
 
@tristan You can still see the text and the favicons. You're not deep enough.
just discovered psql's \watch command
delightful!
 
user559633
 
So apparently images from i.stack.imgur.com will load for me, but not ones from i.imgur.com.
 
Neat!
 
Unless the picture tristan just posted is just a gif of the loading spinner
 
5:56 PM
that does sound DNS-y to me
I can totally spell, I swear it
TFW your query has been running for 40 minutes thus far
it's so weird. I can run a query for each day and it's fairly constant
even just adding one more day doesn't really make that big of a difference
but the entire month just chuuuurns
 
maybe it's a leap year February, that's always tricky
 
user559633
 
when does a collection of days become a month? philosophical face
 
4 weeks ;)
 
6:00 PM
@tristan he's missing the "google" and "top stack overflow answer" steps
 
user559633
@corvid by "he" you mean, me? i just generated that with some meme thing
 
@corvid "top stack overflow answer example docs" FTFY
I love how the easiest way for me to post an image in here is:

- take screenshot
- open new tab
- paste dropbox url in browser
- change the `dl=0` to `dl=1`
- close tab
- click upload button
- drag image from download bar to file input
- click upload/share/whatever that button is
 
user559633
:| why not just use the upload button that's right there --------------v
 
@kevin you on Win 8? I get very similar symptoms on my work box when Ii leave it on for ages. Haven't been able to diagnose.
 
Nah, Windows 10.
 
user559633
6:04 PM
feels like DNS
 
@tristan then I have to find the stupid file.
 
It happened simultaneously to my coworkers and boss, who are all also on Windows 10. This doesn't disqualify our individual machines from being at fault, but makes an upstream problem more probable
 
@Kevin I wonder if turning on the bash console would help diagnose things. Not sure if those syscalls are supported, though.
 
Hmm. I don't think it is in my case, ping still resolves. Do you Wireshark?
 
user559633
@Kevin IIRC, you all have the same corporate software
 
6:05 PM
 
OTOH my issue could be entirely unrelated, of course.
 
@AndrasDeak I pretty much feel like both of those characters when it comes to screenshots on the mac
I wish the imgur upload would just let me paste the file from my clipboard...
 
user559633
i find it incredibly easy
 
I don't think that even works on Linux, though.
 
My own ping results are here. I don't know what "destination host unreachable" means but it sounds bad.
 
user559633
6:08 PM
command + shift + 4; click upload; click desktop; highlight most recent; upload
 
@Kevin It can't find it. Or more accurately, the packets die somewhere in between you and them
where you means your keyboard. Presumably it makes it out of your NIC fine, but I don't know if that's a given.
 
It says "reply from 192.168.1.4". Does that mean the packet failed to exit my own machine? That's what 192.168.1 means, right?
 
@Kevin it means either a remote router is out or the local system - i'd guess local based on 192... return
 
@WayneWerner I've been using a firefox add-on called "awesome screenshot plus". It lets you take a screenshot, crop it, annotate it, then upload it temporarily or download to file. Surprisingly, it's indeed awesome. Of course this only helps for in-browser screenshots
 
@tristan Dropbox moves it from the desktop, which is nice, because otherwise I'd have a bunch of garbage.
 
6:11 PM
It means your packets never left
 
@AndrasDeak boo, no imgur link
 
greenshot was a fun app that I used on Windows
 
you can upload from url, puts it on stack imgur
 
gotta upload to their service though first, right? :P
 
6:13 PM
Who here has done OAuth? I am a bit confused about one small thing. Do I request my server to redirect the user on the front end to go to the provider's authentication url with the key attached?
 
Yes? One click. It's not exactly thought-controlled, but it still seems less hassle than your list up there
 
oops, nope got it backwards - it is remote
 
user6568562
@Andras I didn't know such add on existed, that's actually pretty useful. I'll try it out, thank you. [ :
 
> If the message is "Reply From < IP address >: Destination Host Unreachable," then the routing problem occurred at a remote router, whose address is indicated by the "< IP address >" field. Use the appropriate utility or facility to check the IP routing table of the router assigned the IP address of < IP address >.
 
Ugh. OAuth confuses the heck out of me :P
 
6:13 PM
@randomhopeful I hadn't known either
 
@WayneWerner it's pretty hard if you're not willing to download a file nor upload to a service:P
 
Theory: I'm terrible at hardware-level network tech because every time necessity requires me to learn about it, Google doesn't work and so I just twiddle my thumbs until someone more well-informed fixes the thing on my behalf.
It's like if you signed up for a driving course but the campus is only accessible by freeway.
 
I hate networking but had to do a bit when working on IoT projects
also had to deal with Windows - hint: Windows sucks for IoT
 
@Kevin kind of ironic that driving tests require being at the DMV, I suppose, too.
 
6:16 PM
"Use the appropriate utility or facility to check the IP routing table of the router". That sounds like a good idea. Now to figure out what that appropriate utility is.
 
user6568562
@Kevin When you ping your router, all packets are ok. When you ping an outer domain name, you get losses ?
 
tracert, ip route get, or route get
 
I get pretty inconsistent results. I only got that "Reply from < IP address>" thing once. Now I'm getting:
Request timed out.
Reply from 74.125.21.103: bytes=32 time=262ms TTL=48
Request timed out.
Reply from 74.125.21.103: bytes=32 time=259ms TTL=48
 
ip route get 192.168.1.4 might work
 
It's like Kevin is stuck on Mars and we have to save him through communication. Probably not the best association, but I haven't seen The Martian yet.
 
6:19 PM
I'm betting you have a remote router that is on the fritz
 
'ip' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file. So ip route get is out. I'm pretty sure I've got tracert though.
 
@AndrasDeak It's totally possible to have image clipboard data. I don't know if that's just not available in the browser? In any case, it looks like that extension requires more steps on my part
at least the chrome version did
 
ip is a linux command
 
try it without ip and from powershell - my bad
 
6:20 PM
heh
 
get route 192.168.1.4 from powershell
 
cbg
android usb debugging rules
 
sigh I switch too much sometimes
 
@AnttiHaapala it does!
 
so easy to install new stuff to phone and launch it
 
6:21 PM
I found it after waiting 40 minutes for an emulator to start up
 
rbrb, I think it is lunch time.
 
Ok, I'll try it in powershell.
 
@WayneWerner :(
 
Looks like it might take a while.
No luck. get : The term 'get' is not recognized as the name of a cmdlet, function, script file, or operable program. Check thespelling of the name, or if a path was included, verify that the path is correct and try again.
 
"check thespelling"? Really?:D
guess it's just end of line
 
6:23 PM
grr...I always do something network related and think "that worked well, I should write it down" then forget the command (and changes between versions of windows/powershell)
 
I also did tracert on google's ip and got this but I don't know if that tells me anything other than "it's probably verizon's fault" but that's not new information
 
@davidism @tristan and other room owners, FYI
 
@AndrasDeak Yeah, I mangled the message a little getting it on one line. A rare case where we can't blame Microsoft.
 
user6568562
@Kevin can you ping google.com (from your cmd) twice and see if the packet losses rate change ?
 
@Kevin that's a first;)
 
6:27 PM
Yes, I can do that. 75% loss the first time, 25% loss the second.
 
heisenshort in the cable
 
user6568562
Now, each time you ping your gateway (192.168.1.1) all packets are good ?
 
user6568562
@Andras He should witness the same irrational pattern of packet losses in lan, also
 
Let's see... Yep, 0% loss pinging 192.168.1.1.
 
@randomhopeful is that surely the gateway?
 
user6568562
6:28 PM
He mentioned 192.168.1.4 earlier
 
oh, the tracert
 
user6568562
@Kevin It can't be your wireless or your RG cable, since the packets are good. I sure do hope it isn't a problem with the line between your router and your first FAI collecting point
 
user6568562
FAI = ISP
 
I don't remember if I mentioned it, but I've now got some net access but every page 404s like half the time.
 
he also mentioned that his co-workers also are experiencing the problem
 
6:30 PM
maybe the NSA is facing budget cuts and are no longer using gold-plated connectors?
 
which makes me thing ISP or remote router problem
 
user6568562
@Kevin If a hard reset doesn't solve the problem (It's either router failure or ISP shenanigans)
 
user6568562
A hard reset to your router that is.
 
yes! the solution for all Windows problems - hard reset ;)....also pretty true
 
user6568562
I would've been surprised if it was some internal settings since he randomly get connection time outs
 
user6568562
6:43 PM
Can anyone hint me towards understanding the usage of * in BNF notation ?
i.e: decimalinteger ::= nonzerodigit digit*
 
BNF?
 
user559633
Backus-Naur form
 
oh, theoretical CS, I pass:P
 
user559633
@randomhopeful IIRC, an expression or token occurring zero or more times
 
user6568562
@tristan Thank you [ : ! I get it now. At least the context of its usage in the Python documentation.
 
user559633
6:45 PM
@randomhopeful Standard caution that I'm not very bright, so fact check everything I say
 
oh, I might have read it as regex and got away with it, then
 
To be fully pedantic, * means it's Extended BNF ;)
or some other variant
 
user559633
I wouldn't be surprised if regex special tokens come from BNF
 
or vice-versa, maybe? I'm not a doctor
 
user6568562
@tristan Your explanation was just spot on. I had my doubts when I saw it used to explain suites in functions, but yours made it clear. Since 0 or n number of suites can exist after a clause.
 
user6568562
6:49 PM
I messed up what I wanted to say.
if :
elif:*
 
user6568562
0 or n numbers of elif can exist after an if statement. That's what they were explaining with BNF notation.
 
hey, I got to upvote Shog9...its been a while since I got to do that
 

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