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DSM
2:00 PM
Morning cabbage, BTW.
 
I got the improvement by using an ensemble of classifiers - if one classifier isn't enough, use two and average them.
 
While composing my question "why is dashoffset broken?" I've discovered that the dash keyword argument is also broken. When I do dash=(20,), which should specify dashes of length 20 followed by gaps of length 20, I get dashes of length 18 followed by gaps of length 7. When I use the alternative syntax, dash=(20,20), I get dashes of length 3 followed by gaps of length 3.
And either my google-fu is on the fritz today, or I'm the first person that has ever noticed this.
 
2:22 PM
@Kevin Do you want to post a MCVE and I'll test it on Linux. There might be a difference. I'm pretty sure X windows uses the same convention as PostScript for specifying line dash patterns. And GTK inherits that convention: pygtk.org/pygtk2reference/…
 
from tkinter import *
root = Tk()
canvas = Canvas(root, width=100, height=30, bg="black")
canvas.pack()
canvas.create_line((0,10,100,10), dash=(20,), fill="red")
canvas.create_line((0,20,100,20), dash=(20,20), fill="green")
root.mainloop()
Although if I run it in 3.x, the green line takes on the same proportions as the red line.
So, joy. Version incompatibility.
(both versions are still wrong though)
 
DSM
For me both lines are the same in both 2 and 3. Although how does it even run in both? Didn't they change the capitalization of tkinter or something?
 
Yeah they did. The lowercase version I just posted is when I was testing it in 3.x.
 
DSM
So why didn't it fail when I ran it in 2.7? (puzzled)
 
(sorry, learning chat...didn't think that would send yet...)
are you sure you ran in 2.7? i had to change from tkinter import * to from Tkinter import *
 
2:30 PM
@DSM Weird unofficial backporting, maybe?
 
DSM
Yeah, I did. It looks like I have a separate module tkinter in site-packages which something must have installed. Hmm.
 
@Kevin I get correct identical output in both 2.6.6 and 3.6
 
Ok, you guys are pretty consistently getting lines of identical shape, so I'm guessing that the 3-and-3 shape I'm seeing on my own green line is due to me using a relatively older version of 2.7. What versions of 2.7 have you guys got? I'm still on 2.7.2
 
DSM
^^ I get what PM2R shows, in both 2.7.10 (with my weird tkinter) and 3.5.
 
2:31 PM
Maybe the code works for us because we're better programmers.
When we run code, we run it with conviction.
 
Interesting. Without measuring the pixels exactly, that strongly resembles the output I want.
 
Maybe you ran out of green pixels so it has to add more spaces.
 
I wonder how hard it is to upgrade from 2.7.2 to 2.7.11. Would I have to reinstall all my third party modules?
 
No*
 
@Kevin I measured it in a paint program. The lengths are correct... Assuming the leftmost pixel is hiding under the 1 pixel wide grey border.
 
DSM
2:33 PM
Ah. tkinter is a shim installed by (it looks like) python-future.
 
[* = you shouldn't have to, but uninstalling Python from Windows might remove the directory, so make a backup first]
 
Ok, so my next step is to upgrade and re-run my MCVE. I'll do that.
@PM2Ring don't get me started on off-by-one problems when you're near the border. Whole other can of worms.
 
@PM2Ring yeah ... I gave up trying to explain that my answer still has a_Class.property ... and doesnt shadow the builtin... its like people just read my comment at the bottom about @property being useless (imho) and think that i broke the guys properties
 
cbg
 
cbg
 
2:37 PM
@Kevin FWIW, in Py2 my Tkinter version is Tkinter.__version__ == '$Revision: 73770 $'. I'm still looking for where it's hidden in Py3. :)
 
My theory "the dashes are broken in versions of Python prior to about 2.7.10" falls apart because PM is on 2.6 and his output is fine.
Unless it's actually "the dashes are broken in Windows versions of Python prior to 2.7.10"
 
DSM
What version of Tk are we all using?
 
Or possibly "the dashes are broken in Windows" if DSM is on something else
 
@Kevin He's now on 3.6
 
DSM
@Kevin: I'm an ubuntu guy.
 
2:41 PM
Oh no wait scratch that.
I see he tested it on his 2.6 install also
 
Uh oh. 'python' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.
Upgrading 2.7 is not as seamless as I wanted it to be.
 
looks like you just got windowned
 
It probably just blanked the PATH environment variable. Probably.
 
@DSM My .TkVersion is 8.5, both in Py2 and Py3
 
DSM
@PM2Ring: okay, that probably rules out tk-based issues because I'm on 8.6. Which OS are you on?
 
2:44 PM
If I want to put my pytest tests into another folder (obviously called "tests") but still import stuff from the root directory, I have to use a setup.py right?
 
Whoops, I installed to C:\Python27 instead of C:\programming\Python27. I think I have to uninstall now.
Odds of deleting all of my third party modules is climbing.
 
DSM
Do you have a list of them, just in case the worst happens?
 
@DSM An old Debian Squeeze-based distro, Mepis 11.
 
No but they're all pip-installable so it's a minor annoyance to get them back as I encounter them
 
$ cat /proc/version
Linux version 2.6.36-1-mepis-smp (MEPIS 2.6.36-4mepis2) (max@stro.at) (gcc version 4.4.5 (Debian 4.4.5-8) ) #1 SMP Thu Mar 31 17:07:18 CDT 2011
 
2:47 PM
The only hard part will be remembering beautifulsoup's correct name.
 
Use pip freeze to save all of your current stuff to a file
so it's easy to reinstall later
 
Moot point, I've installed and it looks like they're still there.
 
DSM
@PM2Ring: okay, so you and I are on linux. @ochawkeye, what OS are you on?
 
@Kevin Phew!
 
ah, that works too (:
 
2:49 PM
Ok, still wrong, but now it's consistent across versions.
>>> Tkinter.__version__
'$Revision: 81008 $'
 
DSM
That's the same revision as me, where it works. So it can't be (independently) Tk version, or Python version, or Tkinter revision.
 
That's what I get when I run your code. (3.5)
 
DSM
@Programmer: OS?
 
At this point I feel like I should be making a bug report rather than a SO post.
 
Windows 10
 
DSM
2:52 PM
Kevin, Programmer: Windows, failure. PM2R, DSM: linux, success. Hi, @davidism!
 
Yeah this seems like a pattern.
 
It is known.
 
@DSM Windows 8 here
 
My builtin need to do proper science and not lie is competing with my need to troll and say "Works fine for me on Windows."
 
@DSM I had a feeling that might happen. FWIW, I encountered a Tkinter bug the other day that affects OSX and Linux but not Windows, which I thought was really weird.
 
DSM
2:55 PM
@ochawkeye: thanks, that's another data point in the "something's wonky on windows here" side.
@ochawkeye: welcome to the room, by the way -- not sure I've seen you before.
 
Tkinter $Revision: 81008 $
thanks @DSM, brand spanking new here
 
May 15 at 9:47, by PM 2Ring
TIL there's an annoying Tkinter bug: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5886280/python-tkinter-overrideredirect-canno‌​t-receive-keystrokes-linux . The bug doesn't affect Windows systems, only *nix systems, which is a bit weird considering it's a Tcl/Tk thing.
 
DSM
@ochawkeye: don't forget to read the room rules linked on the top right for an explanation of some of our strange customs, which you might have picked up already if you've been lurking. :-) And you can always ping those of us whose names are in italics for help -- we're room owners, and that's technically our job..
@PM2Ring: feels weirder to me that all of a sudden tkinter bugs are a thing we do this week..
 
Another data point, I don't even know if that's right or wrong.
 
Wrong, by my reckoning. What's your OS?
 
2:59 PM
Windows 7 Python 3.5
Running in Git Bash (not that I expect that to make a difference)
 
@DSM Blame me if you like, I told Kevin to post a MCVE. :)
 
Ok, I'm gonna compose a bug report in a bit.
 
@Ffisegydd The lines and gaps should both be 20 pixels long
 
I'm thinking for the title: PROBLEM WITH TKINTER DASHED LINE IN PYTHON (URGENT!!!)
 
DSM
-1 for no plz.
 
3:01 PM
needs more !'s
 
I got Kevin'd by the other Kevin. I guess it's a Kevin thing
 
I'll wait to cast my vote to see whether you're going to include an MCVE or not.
"The gaps in my lines aren't right. Please fix and email me the working version." should be the entirety of your bug report.
 
well well...here is my Win10
very different from my win8
 
Oooo, the plot thickens
 
3:04 PM
The plot thickens while the gap un...thickens...
 
That's the same behavior I had on 2.7.2, but the green line changed to match the red when I upgraded to 2.7.11.
 
@JRichardSnape I see what you did there. ;)
 
DSM
We might want to look at the history of the tkinter module in 2.7 and see what changes have been made.
 
Maybe it's Win10, but Py 2.7.2 Such things are possible.
 
3:05 PM
and Win10, Python 64-bit:
 
My chat has suddenly stopped auto-scrolling to keep the newest messages visible. This just isn't cricket.
 
Win10, 32-bit python version 2.7.6, Tkinter $Revision: 81008 $ = different red/blue lines
Win10, 64-bit python version 2.7.9, Tkinter $Revision: 81008 $ = same red/blue lines
 
DSM
Have I officially thrown up my hands yet? No? Consider it done.
 
Well - we could source dive for the change between 2.7.6 and 2.7.9... I imagine that's what Kevin's doing as we type.
 
At what point do we all admit this was a ruse?
 
3:12 PM
Not funny, Fizzy. Not clever.
:giggles:
 
-1. Far too much information and far too helpful.
 
Currently backing my database up betwixt servers.
35Gb. Bets on how long this'll take? :( Much slower than I was expecting
 
Over a network?
 
yeah, digitalocean droplets.
same datacentre, in theory
 
3:15 PM
Whoops, I forgot the second clause of my very first sentence in that bug report. Sigh.
"When creating a dashed line using Canvas.create_line"... Yes? Don't leave us hanging.
 
A second clause? My childhood was such a lie!
 
Probably going to be IO bottleneck as opposed to network, if it's the same datacentre.
I'd go for...3 hours.
 
Let's see, is there an edit button...
 
Looks to be transferring about 2Mb a second, so...
rough maths
5?
 
But then I'm horribly pessimistic.
 
3:17 PM
Hah ^
 
You'd imagine that internally it'll be something like a 10Gbit network connection.
You'd hope so anyway.
 
Now to make a half-hearted attempt to patch the problem myself.
I predict I'll get frustrated and give up around the time I find where Python talks to Tcl.
 
Wow. One of my recent SO Meta comment's hit 90 upvotes. :)
ObTwitter: twitter.com/jakevdp/status/625349748292071424 "StackOverflow devs have the hardest job on the internet… when the site goes down, they have to fix it without StackOverflow" #PyData. :) Seriously though, in that situation, they can access the database directly. — PM 2Ring May 16 at 13:00
 
I know some of the guys that run the SO infrastructure. I wouldn't be so sure of that last bit. ;)
 
@Withnail Yeah. As Lightness Races in Orbit points out, they can't do that when the database itself goes down.
 
3:23 PM
They just go on expertsexchange.
 
blinks
 
Morale failing. I expect the bug report to get closed with the reply "Not our fault. Try reporting this to the Tcl team"
 
Problem with Jupyter notebooks: Doing anything memory intensive on them as the garbage collection take care of things.
 
@Ffisegydd Yeah, right.
in SO Close Vote Reviewers, May 4 at 15:32, by PM 2Ring
Probably the best thing about expertsexchange is that its horribleness was one of the motivations behind the creation of Stack Overflow. From http://blog.codinghorror.com/introducing-stackoverflow-com/ "Stackoverflow is sort of like the anti-experts-exchange (minus the nausea-inducing sleaze and quasi-legal search engine gaming) meets wikipedia meets programming reddit".
in SO Close Vote Reviewers, May 4 at 15:34, by PM 2Ring
Also see http://blog.codinghorror.com/whos-your-arch-enemy/ "I never appreciated how easy Experts-Exchange makes it for us. They are almost universally loathed. We don't just have a rival, we have a larger than life moustache-twirling, cape-wearing villain to contrast ourselves with. "
 
Bah, Octave GUI bug. Python is so nice and predictable. Scrolls up ah, well, maybe not.
 
user559633
3:41 PM
@Withnail need more data to make a good bet. are you doing a binary log export/import or are you streaming?
 
pg_dump -C db | bzip2 | ssh stuff@myserver "bunzip2 | psql newdb"
rhubarb for now. have to go convince a client she needs moar wurk dun
 
user559633
enjoy (i bet it's CPU bound)
 
Are you guys still wrestling with that weird Tcl/Tk bug?
 
DSM
Wrestling with? No. Letting it consume my every thought as I pore over the source code to debug a problem I can't locally reproduce? .. of course not. That would be silly.
 
user559633
people use Tk?
 
3:53 PM
Not seen Jerry in ages.
 
DSM
Kevin does, and he's our friend, is I think how the logic goes.
 
He's there, lurking.
 
user559633
looks down at notes yes, friend
 
sopython resident id: 24601
name: Kevin Kevinson
relationship: friend
spirit animal: sloth
Checks out.
 
user559633
oh, i had "spirit animal: starfish"
 
3:55 PM
ruh roh.
 
I expect if the problem varies between OSs, it's very unlikely to be on the Python side of the fence...
 
DSM
I hate it when people break kayfabe. (shakes head)
 
I'd've thunk that the OS differences were handled in some bundled C library or other.
TIL kayfabe
 
TIL also.
 
I wish my spirit animal was as helpful.
 
DSM
4:00 PM
A friend claims David Bowie as a spirit animal. Not sure that's how it works.
 
Humans are animals. Also, David Bowie is a shapeshifter, so most rules don't apply to him.
 
DSM
All I know is that he has no power over me.
 
That's probably for the best.
Ok so Canvas.create_line calls self._create('line', args, kw), which calls self.tk.getint(self.tk.call(self._w, 'create', itemType,*(args + self._options(cnf, kw)))), which calls, uh I dunno because I can't figure out where the tkapp class is defined
Pretty sure it's implemented in C, so I'm rapidly going out of my depth
@JRichardSnape Yeah that seems very likely at this point. The Cpython github repository has 0 search results for "dashoffset", which is one of the configuration options for Tkinter Canvas lines, so I think it's safe to assume all logic related to dashed lines is happening elsewhere.
If not all logic related to lines, period.
0 search hits in the tcl repository, too. Uh...
 
4:16 PM
Here, mayhap. Caveat I have absolutely no idea how CPython wraps Tcl/Tk
 
Ah, I should have looked in tk rather than tcl.
Too many TLAs.
 
Ooh, a reply to my bug report.
> Could you please test pure Tcl/Tk example?
 
90 minutes of transfer and counting...
 
Ok. Time to figure out how to use pure Tk without Tkinter.
I wonder if it's possible without having to download anything new. It wouldn't do me much good if I installed the latest Tcl and couldn't reproduce.
 
4:31 PM
hi, all. how did i do answering this question? there was no MCVE. but i tried anyways. it doesn't seem like the type of question were an MCVE could be provided. so it might not even fit the SO format.
 
@JRichardSnape I can see and not see the issue on same system with different version of Python...
 
Ok, I managed to fulfill the commenter's request for more information. Uh, I think.
This seems to imply that the problem is with tcl/tk and not any Python-specific part.
Initially this seems to conflict with ochawkeye's observation that it works in one Python and not in another, but it's possible that his two versions of Python have different versions of tcl, used locally.
Which might imply that the bug has already been identified and fixed in Tcl, but some versions of Python don't have an up-to-date version of Tcl.
 
@Kevin Is there a way to check tcl version?
(google here I come...)
 
You could browse to C:\[directory where your python is installed]\tcl and look at the version numbers on the folders.
I don't know if that gives you precise version information, but you'll at least get major/minor version.
 
Tkinter.TclVersion and Tkinter.TkVersion
 
4:45 PM
For instance, I have tk 8.5.
>>> Tkinter.TkVersion
8.5
>>> Tkinter.TclVersion
8.5
 
8.5 for both here as well
 
DSM
Earlier we established that PM has 8.5 and I have 8.6 and they both work. So I think "windows bug" and "windows bug in 8.5" are both still on the table.
 
I wish they had more precise info. What if I have 8.5.7 and ochawkeye has 8.5.8?
 
hey guys. morning
 
Yo
 
4:48 PM
that anyone know why I cant connect to my postgresql database in docker.
I'm running this code in host
import psycopg2

conn = psycopg2.connect(host='192.168.99.100', port='5432', database='test1', user='postgres')
cur = conn.cursor()
cur.execute("CREATE TABLE holiday(ID INT PRIMARY KEY NOT NULL, NAME TEXT NOT NULL, AGE INT NOT NULL, ADDRESS CHAR(50));")

cur.execute("INSERT INTO holiday (ID,NAME,AGE,ADDRESS) VALUES (2, 'Paul', 32, 'California');")
cur.fetchone()

conn.commit()
cur.close()
conn.close()
it does not execute the code in my database.
 
Does your user have permissions to create/insert?
 
the thing is , my code knows if I have a database called 'test1'. So im guessing it's somehow connecting
hmm. i'm actually in the postgres terminal
I'm manually running the commands
to debug as well.
how to check if user has permissions. sry new to postgres.
 
Hmm, not sure.
 
I checked. in postgres console, postgres is default. and yes. got permission
because i can run it in console.
 
Just repeating something I've already posted, but more of a one-shot
 
4:52 PM
Yeah that jives with my own output. short dashes in 2.7.2, long dashes in 2.7.10.
Interesting, Tk already has a bug report for the semi-related strange dashoffset behavior that led me into this whole mess.
> On Windows, only certain dash patterns and no dash offsets are supported.
Oh, this might be connected.
Hmm, even reading the suggested man page, it's not clear to me why Windows is constrained in this way.
Is Tcl invoking a window-painting method belonging to the Windows API, which isn't as full-featured as other OSes'?
(Ugh, plural possessive acronym)
 
I got your meaning, Gollum. And good question.
 
5:09 PM
I think TCL is just acting as a wrapper to Windows GDI functions. Windows is less fully featured here, but you're using the API that's only fully featured enough to make MS Paint.
 
Yeah, I just came to that exact conclusion.
Tk is invoking CreatePen to draw lines, which only has appx five variations of dashed lines.
 
#CrossPlatformWoes
 
I'm making a post-mortem comment for my issue now.
 
I don't know what the best approach to getting actual cross-platform fast graphics is. Could always make the jump to OpenGL.
 
In the left window in the screenshot above, TCL_PATCH_LEVEL = 8.5.15
In the right window in the screenshot above, TCL_PATCH_LEVEL = 8.5.2
(from \<pythonpath>\tcl\tclConfig.sh)
 
5:16 PM
I was thinking of going to OpenGL anyway. I want a "crawling ants" type dotted box, and if I want proper contrast, I ought to be inverting the pixels underneath it rather than just drawing white and black stripes. And I suspect that's well beyond Tk's abilities.
Hmm, how to close. "not a bug"? "wont fix"?
 
PS_SOLID | The pen is solid.
PS_DASH | The pen is dashed.
PS_LIARLIAR | The pen is RRRRRRRRRRRRRRoyal Blue. NOOO!
 
I get that reference.
RIP little bug report. No parent ought to bury their own child ;_;
 
Unless the children were about to be zombies... :P
 
At least I get the catharsis of closing 20 web browser tabs that I had open during my research.
 
I'm still unclear on the behavior difference between dash=(20,) and dash=(20,20) in older versions, though...
 
DSM
5:27 PM
You've saved future victims a fair bit of headache. So that's good.
 
Did they "fix" something to make both of them break consistently?
 
tkWinDraw.c hasn't been updated since 2012, so I don't know if that could be the cause.
Maybe Tk_GetDash changed.
But then I'd expect it to be consistent across OSes.
Weird tiny dashes prior to some point in time, then broken long dashes for Windows and 20-and-20 dashes for everybody else after that point in time.
github.com/tcltk/tk/commit/… looks like it makes some substantial changes to GetDash, but that's from 2009
 
Maybe it's time to make a the Kevin Command Language. Kcl/Kk.
 
the date modified for tcl files in my 2.7.6 is 8/28/2010; in my 2.7.9 it is 11/5/2014
 
5:44 PM
There are other changes since then but nothing that mentions dashes in the commit descriptions
Whoops I spent five hours failing to draw a line instead of working on my project
4
 
Laurel - am I doing that right? - if so Rhubarb
if not, See You Later
 
@Kevin \o/ yay programming
 
Anonymous
guys quick question, is pyqt discontinued?
 
I've never used it, but I don't think so.
 
Anonymous
I found a tutorial from pluralsight, but pyqt seems abandoned.
 
5:48 PM
Considering they just released a new version of 5 less than 2 months ago, I'm going to go with no.
 
import MySQLdb

hostname = 'localhost'
username = 'root'
password = 'admin'
database = 'echobase'

sqldo = "CREATE TABLE super12345 (hello VARCHAR(50)); "


def run_query():

	def doQuery( conn ) :
	    cur = conn.cursor()
	    cur.execute( sqldo )

	myConnection = MySQLdb.connect( host=hostname, user=username, passwd=password, db=database )
	doQuery( myConnection )
	myConnection.close()

run_query()
Am I looping back on myself
 
Doesn't look like it.
 
ok then I have something else messed up
thanks
 
6:44 PM
@Scribbles ... start using sqlalchemy now to avoid later headaches
 
thats the next step I just needed to make sure I could get a proper connection
I got the connection down now
 
7:18 PM
evening cabbage
I've received yet another email from Google Incorporation, informing me that I've been selected as a winner. Oh, happy day.
 
DSM
What have you won? And is it denominated in bolívar?
 
I don't understand the second question
 
DSM
Random reference to Venezuelan inflation. Kind of a stretch, I admit, but I was just reading about it yesterday. :-)
 
950 000 GBP, one google nexus 10 tablet, and I'm one of the Google Ambassadors for 2016
@DSM oh OK, I see:)
 
^ Google Imbassadors
 
DSM
7:22 PM
I'm impressed! What did you do to earn this award?
 
the usual sweepstakes, y'know
 
DSM
Ahh. Do you remember entering, or do you enter so many this particular one might have slipped your mind?
 
it's so funny I'm almost inclined to upload the image (since the bulk of the message is a jpg email)
@DSM oh, it's automatic
I have been chosen by their automated system/Random Name and E-mail Generator (RNG)
 
DSM
How thoughtful of them! To save you the trouble, and all.
 
yup
 
7:24 PM
Guys I have too many web projects at the same time :| Can't remember which port is which
 
DSM
Use an easy project->port number mapping.
 
@AndrasDeak Are you serious? Dude nice Andras! :D
Did you watch google I/O yesterday?
It was so silicon-valley
 
I have one web project all the time and I explicitly stated in my interview, "I don't think I'd care for web design". :P
 
@OneRaynyDay There's an infinitesimal chance that it's a scam, but I'm sure it's legit </sarcasm>
It was also sent to my university e-mail address, rather than the private gmail one. Odd.
Probably a mistake on their side
 
DSM
They just wanted you to take it seriously, and what's more serious than education?
 
7:27 PM
@AndrasDeak What's the postfix of their email?
If it's google I feel like there's no way it's a scam :)
 
the what?
 
like andras@google.com
 
Google Inc <colpalmasforum@sefaz.to.gov.br>
 
the google.com part - unless they don't have that postfix(do they use gmail at work actually?)
 
oh that's the sender
reply-to <name>@googlemail.com, <name>@yandex.com
it has to be legit, it says googlemail right there
 
7:29 PM
sefaz.to.gov.br? That's a suspicious postfix but hey if you're not giving them your credit card information or w/e
you should be alright... right?
 
Unless you want more spam, no.
 
DSM
What's suspicious about Google sending email from Tocantins? It's the winter season, so it might be cool enough to be comfortable this time of year.
 
You're my hero, Andras
 
Call me uneducated but I forgot where brazil was, much less "Tocantins"
 
I'm OK with Brazil, never heard of Tocantins
 
DSM
7:45 PM
Do I pretend to have known it before I googled? .. no, I don't think I will.
 
7:56 PM
:D
 
ineedanewispnow
 
When I from eventlet.green import urllib2 PyCharm doesn't recognize urllib2.urlopen() but runs it fine without exception. Anyone know why PyCharm can't find the reference?
 
8:25 PM
gents, I'm trying to find details on understanding a difference between py3.4.2 and py3.4.4 (seems to be only happening in 3.4.2 from what I can tell)
my travis build spat this out at me:
raise TypeError("Cannot extend enumerations")
trying to investigate further. I know it's not much to go with...but does this ring a bell for anyone?
 
DSM
Are you subclassing an Enum at any point?
 
Thanks vaultah
@DSM I'm about to look through the code for SocketType
the exception seems to be happening from here: docs.python.org/3/library/socket.html#socket.SocketType
 
It seems like that's been in there since the original commit, so I'm confused how it's only breaking on one version.
 
yeah. I think I'm going to install 3.4.2 and investigate further
I have 3.4.4
this was discovered becasue specifying 3.4 on travis installs 3.4.2
 
DSM
8:32 PM
@MorganThrapp: it could be on the other side, though, if the implementation of socket changed.
 
True.
 
I wonder why Travis chooses 3.4.2...that also seems odd to me
well...to the investigation machine. Thanks for the input anyway guys.
 
Travis may be yum installing it or such. Might be that the supplied version of 3.4 is 3.4.2
 
DSM
Squirrel! I like looking out my window and seeing trees and squirrels.
 
8:47 PM
Crazy Scala Thing #N+1: To do operator overloading you literally do something like:
 
@DSM grey or red squirrels?
 
class Num (val i:Int) {
    def + (other:Num) = new Num (this.i + other.i)
}
 
Ah, Canada, that'll be grey squirrels. At least they are native there. ;-)
 
You define the + operator on the class.
 
DSM
@MartijnPieters: Eastern grey, as you guessed. :-)
@Ffisegydd: what's the crazy bit?
 
8:49 PM
That you do def + !
 
DSM
That seems more sensible than what we do in Python.
Having to remember that it's not __in__, it's __contains__, never made any sense to me.
 
I'm not saying it's not nice and readable, it just strikes me as crazy that you can use a plus sign as a method name, effectively.
It's because x <op> y is actually syntactic sugar for x.<op>(y). So s.strip(' ') can also be written as s strip ' '
But that sugar is only allowed if the function takes a single variable.
 
DSM
Didn't Guido once say he considered not requiring parentheses in Python? I think something like that is true.
 
hmm would you guys agree that if you don't specify a minor release, then assume latest stable of that release?
 
DSM
That's a perfectly reasonable convention. I don't know if I'd assume that, though.
 
8:53 PM
Agreed.
It's what I would want.
 
I'm debating if I should raise the issue to travis on what to do with py34 builds
if I say 34, my expectation is latest. Unless I explicitly do something like 3.4.2
it also seems like 3.4.2 is the default 34 install for travis. In my build run it does not specify it is downloading/installing said version of python
when I explicitly said 3.4.4 it actually said it was downloading that version
 
You can call without parens in IPython to some degree: %autocall
 
DSM
@idjaw: out of curiosity, did you track down what the change actually was?
 

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