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user4639281
9:00 PM
You're comparing it to another tag saying that tag exists, and taking its existence to mean that it is a good tag.
 
Thanks @PetterFriberg, @Tunaki. That was my thinking. Anybody wants to spend a reject vote?
 
is eye opening
 
@honk Trust us we already did : )
 
btw, it has examples
 
I'm assuming that the other tags are okay, yes. If that assumption is mistaken, fair enough, maybe it's mistaken. But what I don't understand is the "no, don't think about other tags" part.
 
user4639281
9:01 PM
I could compare it to code-quality, which is now gone.
 
@Braiam "Try not to create new tags." --> I've been for a while all for having 10k rep limit for new tags.....
 
@PetterFriberg: Thanks! Was some kind of cross-post-reject ;)
 
@Rizier123 I'm inviting you to the SOCVR github organization, that way you can make edits directly against the master branch
 
@Braiam What this says is: burn all tags except language tags
 
@AndrasDeak I remember having to create at least 5 tags...
 
9:02 PM
practically
 
I think finance / financial aint that important. I think 1 guy ought to go clean it up
 
user4639281
You can't compare a tag to another tag without determining first whether the other tag is on-topic. If comparison of tags is required to validate burnination, we would have to compare every tag to every other tag on the site, which would be a huge process, and far too broad.
 
@Tunaki nah, I reckon that some tags with a proper control and a whip you can use them... the thing is that nobody is willing to be the whip
 
@Braiam on the rare occasion that it's merited, I'm sure it could be somehow solved...
 
9:03 PM
@Rizier123 mod-flag
 
But that said, what I just said, why consume ourselves with it, as Shog said, what does it hurt
 
@gunr2171 Okay, do I have to accept the invite somehow or...?
 
but with all the crap being burninated all the time...
 
Can someone write a single on-topic question tagged finance?
 
9:04 PM
@Tunaki I have a mod flag pending since 5 days for a similar reason.
 
@Drew when you solve the little annoying problem, you feel good... you can use that feeling to solve bigger problems
 
Maybe. Maybe you can use the process to establish some okay tags as a baseline, and some clearly not okay ones ("internet"). Ideally you'd find a few around the threshold between okay and not as a training set.
 
So whoever had the brainchild of finance or financial go fix it yourself. BTW I will join you
 
I can't see a question tagged finance only that isn't worth closing.
 
@Braiam these aren't problems
 
user4639281
9:05 PM
@RexKerr The point is that when comparing a tag to another tag, you expand the discussion exponentially, because then I have to compare algorithm to another tag, and that tag to another tag, and that tag to another tag, until all tags have been compared to all other tags.
 
this is silly busy work
 
a matter of perception @Drew
 
@TinyGiant: GZ to 10k!
 
finance of financial for that matter.
 
user4639281
Unless we go ahead and compile a list of all good tags, and all bad tags, which would again require comparing every tag to every other tag.
 
9:06 PM
what is so pressing about corners squares and corner detections. I am waiting
 
Well, what is the point of a tag? I use tags to follow topics I care about. So if a tag is useful for collating related things that I might care about, in reasonable volume, then I don't think it much matters if it never occurs alone, does it?
 
Would you follow finance?
 
no
 
Would someone in their right mind follow finance?
 
user4639281
There is a definition of that somewhere, hold on.
 
9:06 PM
just because the poor child of africa having no food doesn't affects me, doesn't mean that isn't a problem for african children, or the world in general
 
@TinyGiant - Bleh, why would you use such an inefficient sort algorithm?!
 
I have a score of 27/40 as well, but I have all the badges minus Sportsmanship
 
no one here is following finance. If it blows so much go fix it yourself. We earned that right
 
@Tunaki - If I was working in the financial industry, I don't know. I might.
 
currently only around 1/4th of the way there for Sportsmanship
 
9:07 PM
This is the kind of thing that you can determine empirically if you know how many followers a tag has.
 
@RexKerr What kind of question would you be interested in following that tag?
 
Well, for instance, I follow the Scala tag.
 
Does anyone know how long a temporary edit ban, created by a mod, holds?
 
I don't know everything about Scala, nor do I care about every question that has anything to do with Scala.
 
@RexKerr you probably would be all over the formulas anyway
 
9:08 PM
ok, lets put this on the pin board: calling all close votes: lets close the market, and clean our
 
But it contains a lot of stuff that I do care about. It massively enriches for things in related areas that I care about.
 
user4639281
Language / framework / library tags are inherently on-topic
 
But following Scala means you'll see questions tagged scala only.
if you follow finance, it means you're prepared to see questions tagged finance only.
 
But rex maybe Finance is a little too broad
 
And it is not clear to me that financial is not, in the context of programming, as well-defined a subarea of knowledge as Scala.
 
9:09 PM
maybe not. But someone can just go clean it
 
user4639281
102
A: When to burninate

Shog9Before you start doing anything, put a little bit of thought into the request: Does this tag even need to be burninated? There are a lot of burninate-requests posted to various meta sites that are... To put it gently... A complete and utter waste of everyone's time. Some folks will seemingly p...

 
yeah well how about Makoto for that matter. He went and purged all the jacobian on his own on a whim
 
Maybe it is! But I don't think the case was made very well. The suggestion that you can get by with financial sub-tags doesn't seem practical because only the top couple of sub-tags have enough posts for it to even matter that it exists.
 
Some guy spent 2 hours maybe 5 putting that matrix together. There was ZERO thought into what he did as a group
And we all just say. Ok. No big deal
 
For me, it goes like this: "Can I picture a single question on-topic tagged only with it?" No -> burn, Yes -> don't burn.
 
9:11 PM
And I don't know much about financial software, but I do know enough to know that reading through the last couple dozen financial tagged questions has a lot of the same kind of concepts referenced that I don't know anything about.
 
user4639281
> Does it describe the contents of the questions to which it is applied? and is it unambiguous?
> Is the concept described even on-topic for the site?
> Does the tag add any meaningful information to the post?
> Does it mean the same thing in all common contexts?
 
@Drew actually, he was acting on what seems to be consensus
and jacobian matrices isn't a hot topic in today's programming...
 
@Drew was that the same guy who mass-tagged with [hessian] or something?
 
he acted alone at the moment it would have been fine 1 hour later
It was a rush. And it disregarded the work of a gent in a field he does not sit in
 
sigh Tag discussion are always a pain. No-one agrees. :D
 
9:13 PM
@Tunaki I disagree
 
@AndrasDeak yeah, they are a PITA, not just a pain...
 
I disagree with you disagreeing because the tag disagree doesn't exist.
 
@Tunaki [citation-needed]
 
@Tunaki it's right next to
 
That guy spent a good deal of time putting that together. And people on Meta get themselves so kicked in a corner by their own words .... they can't back down
 
9:14 PM
Blargh, what was even the point of the discussion?
 
@Drew that might also be a bike-shedding issue. Maybe the majority doesn't know jack poop about jacobians
 
the point is about tags and who cares about what
 
That is for sure.
 
ok, lets see, I will spend 15 minutes casting close votes on finance/financial and then everyone just jumps to the queue, deal?
 
We have going on, filter on that instead.
 
9:15 PM
@Tunaki wut? that was so meta...
 
Evening all. After months (okay, a couple weeks) of excruciating(ly easy) work, I've finished my userscript for Smokey. Essentially, adds recent SD reports to your sidebar under HNQ and allows you to review them.
To fill your sidebar with spam, here's the userscript. Gives you reports and feedback buttons on them in your sidebar under HNQ. Direct install here.
9
 
man, I hate these comments stackoverflow.com/questions/24636592/…
 
Well, I don't know what those four things mean, @TinyGiant. I'm not sure how to learn except by pushing tags at them and seeing what the answers are for those.
 
and the question could have been deleted years ago... :/
 
I mean, if I wanted to calculate compound interest using the same rounding algorithms as banks use, I wouldn't know what to tag my question with other than financial. So it seems to pass @Tunaki's "can I picture a question" test.
 
user4639281
9:17 PM
@RexKerr If you write a question about scala code, does the scala tag accurately describe the contents of the question in an unambiguous manner?
 
Sure, but that's an easy case. The language is Scala; you want an answer for Scala. I want to know where it falls apart.
 
@ArtOfCode right there's a very good reason for me to finally install greasemonkey:)
sounds awesome!
 
user4639281
If you write a question about an ecommerce wordpress plugin, does the financial tag tag accurately describe the contents of the question in an unambiguous manner?
 
I also follow the "algorithm" tag, and some questions tagged with something like that are clear, and some are not. So I'm not sure it's an okay tag, but at least it's a point of reference.
 
@RexKerr Interesting. But tricky, you'd write that in some language appropriate for financial algo.
 
9:19 PM
@RexKerr let X be a non-programming topic, does that mean that we need all iterations of X tags? For every topic?
 
And that language better have a tag
 
THAT.
IS.
MADNESS!
/me kicks @RexKerr into a bottomless pit
 
@TinyGiant - Dunno. That's a separate decision of whether to break up commerce separately from financial. Not having a clear tag description doesn't mean you should delete the tag. Just fix the description.
 
@RexKerr ok, what would be the description?
 
Waits for Smokey
 
9:20 PM
@Braiam - If you need to program to do X correctly, and a non-negligible number of people do it, yes, that's what a tag is for, isn't it? To identify topics?
 
user4639281
OK, so what can financial apply to unambiguously in all contexts?
 
For further info about the review buttons on that script: ✓ is tp, ❌ is fp, and N is NAA. You will need an (activated) account on metasmoke, and to be logged into it.
 
!!/alive
 
@BhargavRao plz send teh coffee
 
9:21 PM
Smokey will kick in
takes a little time
 
I trust in Smokey.
 
@TinyGiant - Anything about keeping track of or manipulating money, I imagine, unless there are other tags that cover some of the ground.
 
> There are no items for you to review, matching the filter "off-topic, too broad, primarily opinion-based; [apt] [dpkg] [debian]"
 
9:22 PM
As I said, I'm not sure about financial. I'm really just not sure how I'd learn without case studies of other tags.
 
crosses languages
 
user4639281
@pp_ nice turd polishing there.
 
we don't get worked up about it.
 
@TinyGiant I read that as "nice turd polishing there" and was about to click the link S:
 
blame Jon, he deleted before Smokey kicked in.
 
user4639281
9:23 PM
@RexKerr That seems pretty ambiguous.
 
Pretty sure all-caps title is deactivated now
 
@RexKerr how about manipulating planes? Or pigs? Or, well, users? Do we need a tag for those too?
 
that little turd polisher is almost at 2k time to bounty him
 
@Tunaki What've I done now? :(
 
@Braiam - I think an "aviation" or "aerospace" tag would make sense if the concerns are sufficiently in common, yes.
 
9:24 PM
@JonClements In fact, it wasn't even true. Pass the tea please?
 
... that is a slippery slope, and I see some sharp rocks at the bottom
 
Okay, maybe I need to approach this from another angle. Is there any tag that is okay that isn't a particular framework or language?
 
@Tunaki See the tag there, The most "clean" tag on SO ;)
 
If "no", that would make this really easy.
 
@Tunaki I just closed it - the community deleted it... :) And no! Tea is my preciouusssssss - you shall not have the tea!
 
9:25 PM
Tempted to say no.
 
@RexKerr on a site for and by programmers? I doubt it
 
 
Well, why not use that then? That makes things waaaay easier than these four difficult-to-judge criteria, and will probably catch everything those four would.
 
@Drew That's too broad of a tag
 
it is too painful for you Tuna
 
9:26 PM
@RexKerr well, what are you doing at Stack Overflow?
 
A question tagged with functional-programming is either POB or tagged with the functional language
 
@Braiam - Trying to keep my knowledge of programming tuned up, and maybe help some people along the way.
 
@RexKerr then why the heck you want non-programming tags?
 
Tuna it was a scala joke
 
@Tunaki What if there is a functional Programming language w/o a name o_O
 
9:27 PM
I can't follow the logic on that
 
@Drew Jokes are off-topic.
Remember the rules :D
 
Because they are about programming, just not about a framework or language
 
There are only 2 rules. Keep Tuna and Cody happy
 
For example, I have three big books on my bookshelf with titles that include "algorithm"
 
What about the big huge tag ?
 
user4639281
9:28 PM
Every programming question has to be about, at the very least, a language, otherwise it has to have the language-agnostic tag.
 
user4639281
That is for things like for loops, which are very similar in most c-based languages.
 
ewww. I won't go to your house @Rex, you will invite me for dinner, but for your dinner, I'm not eating anything
 
Aren't pure algorithm question better suited at CS.SE anyway?
 
@Tunaki depends, are we talking about the implementation or the logic behind it?
 
by "pure algorithm" I meant the logic.
 
9:30 PM
Pure algorithm questions might be. But if someone has an algorithmic question and is using Python, are you saying that it is not helpful to have the algorithm tag?
 
If we're taling implementation, then there's a language tag with it
 
if they don't want help with the algorithm logic, why would the python guy bother with that? It could be a calculator for all we care
 
let's say the avg age of us is 30. Why split hairs over this trivia
 
Actually, now that it comes to it, I'm not really sure what tags are supposed to be for. I use them to find content that I care about.
 
does this depend on our average age? :D
 
9:32 PM
yes. The younger, the more it seems to matter
 
They're pretty useless for e.g. indexing on Google, which is how I find 90% of the answers to questions.
 
They're useful for SO search
 
ok Tuna is 22
 
Yeah, but why use SO search when Google is so much better at finding the answer?
 
Nope
 
9:33 PM
Or maybe I just don't know how to use SO search effectively.
 
supposedly they are for allowing you to find questions you are able to answer... if it doesn't fulfill at least that, then the tag itself is worthless in my book
 
@RexKerr Sometimes, if I'm looking for Java 8 specific questions, I search [tag:java-8]
It's a lot more effective than Google which shows up lots of non-Java 8 answers
 
Ah, well, I can answer all sorts of algorithm questions.
 
yeah you and no one Tuna. Because the dupes keep flooding in
 
Ok, I'm out, bye! o/
 
9:34 PM
You are the master of search. No one else does that
 
So...we're not really making any headway here on why tags have to be language or framework (if that's what the simplest criteria really are).
 
But now we're entering the "Should we have a tag for each language version" discussion
 
Bye, @honk
 
@Tunaki is so sad, that all answers for all versions of java aren't in a single question, no?
 
It is but what can you do
 
9:35 PM
duplicate and merge more!
 
@RexKerr It's just a nitpick, but e.g. means "for example". "For e.g." means "for for example".
 
Yes, I'm well aware. Did I typo that somewhere?
 
user4639281
@Tunaki Any reason why an application written in java would require something from eclipse?
 
Oh, yeah. I did. Oops!
 
@TinyGiant Hm?
 
9:36 PM
ok, I need a sanity check, why are we closing this one? stackoverflow.com/q/35232141/792066
 
not unless it relies on a bloaty IDE
 
Eclipse is a huge pack of everything.
 
user4639281
We have this program at work that has to update every time it starts, and it always fails trying to get something from eclipse.
 
What makes you say that?
Because there could be dependencies on something hosted by Eclipse
sub-projects. But not the IDE itself.
 
meh, emacs rlz! Why are you using something so fancy?
 
9:37 PM
Eclipse has a zillion of those
 
user4639281
Error: something.something.something.something.eclipse.something.something.something failed.
 
Yup, probably an Eclipse subproject
 
Hey, it could be worse! It could be xcode....
 
If you're seing Mylyn in there, it would be more worrying
 
Okay, well, thanks for the discussion. I'm not sure I agree with the reasoning any more than before, but I might at least understand it more.
 
user4639281
9:39 PM
If I give you the link, can you look at the code, or is Java compiled?
 
Java is compiled, but you can give it anwyay
 
Java is PHP
 
@RexKerr Feel free to stay :) we have waffles and decent coffee
@Braiam Impossible. PHP is the empty set.
 
user4639281
@Tunaki let me know if you can download this: brp.my.salesforce.com/sfc/p/30000001Fh2R/a/a0000000HYur/…
 
user4639281
I may have to download it, then host it elsewhere.
 
9:41 PM
I can
horribly slow but it works
 
@Tunaki Your base are belong to PHP
 
user4639281
K, let me know what you can see about it.
 
Thanks @Tunaki but I think I'd better watch my carb and caffeine intake :P
 
It's an EXE
 
user4639281
Yeah?
 
9:42 PM
Can't decompile that
 
user4639281
Darn
 
If you have a [E|J|W]AR instead
 
user4639281
Nope
 
user4639281
It has to "set repositories" and download jars each time it starts up
 
9:43 PM
aaaaaaaaaaah it must download them from some Eclipse repository
 
user4639281
Really annoying.
 
user4639281
Any way you could put it in some sandbox mode and find out things from what it downloads?
 
just behind a proxy should work.. it allows you to set proxies, right?
 
@TinyGiant Not sure I know how to do that.
Why is your Java app packaged as an EXE to begin with?
 
user4639281
No clue, I'm a JavaScript guy
 
9:46 PM
Tuna try to launch it I do like that with NSIS it extracts a jar and then launch the jar...
 
@TinyGiant is the link still up?
 
user4639281
Couldn't you put it behind a firewall or something and just look at the files it tries to download?
 
user4639281
@Braiam Yeah, up there ^^^
 
ugh... I can't help you...
> 206 MB
 
I'll take a look. It's still downloading.
 
9:47 PM
that will take forever
 
user4639281
K
 
@Tunaki But if it is like that Tiny should also see the jar...
 
That's weird that there's no JAR yeah
 
btw, a 206MB program can't just bundle all the stuff?
or it's bundled but needs to download it...
 
user4639281
Must just be updates?
 
user4639281
9:51 PM
It's weird that it has to download updates every time it runs, even though it was updated a couple seconds ago.
 
lol
 
package management fail
 
user4639281
The writers are french.
 
user4639281
If that says anything
 
I like to say I know sane French coders
 
9:54 PM
@TinyGiant The maintainers are French, but who wrote it initially :)
 
user4639281
same frenchies
 
user4639281
I know their JavaScript is horrible though.
 
Now I want some French fries.
 
user4639281
lulz
 
dat typo
 
9:55 PM
I know Roman fires...
 
we saw it @BhargavRao no need to hide it
The history will remember it
 
Lol, the other day I mistyped, superping as superpig :D
 
I don't see the difference
something comes flying to you either way
 
user4639281
@BhargavRao I've heard of spiderpig, but never superpig
 
9:57 PM
I remember a cartoon with a superpig... and then an annoying french movie about a pig...
.... ok
 
@Tiny
It's fetching things from Eclipse because it's based on the IDE
Eclipse provides a toolkit that you can use to build Eclipse-like app
Like Lotus Notes
 
user4639281
Ok
 

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