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7:00 PM
ok, so first and next and
 
> I've been taught at school that no question is a bad one
 
out of close votes. I sprinkled some into close as well.
 
Uhm, broad or ?
 
STAR THE ONE-BOX GOD
 
7:01 PM
@kayess unclear would do also
 
@kayess No MCVE?
 
JAL
ONE-BOX, ONE-BOX
 
@JonClements now Jon, that's not a responsible mindset. You've got to "leave open" what needs to be!
 
Both fits:)
 
pp_
@kayess looks unclear to me
 
JAL
7:02 PM
Jon is the one true box
 
stackoverflow.com/questions/35803968/… how does such A gets +4 in ~10s ?:)
 
@gunr2171 That's true - however putting all the caveats into the meme doesn't really work :(
 
Then again "Close or appropriately review" doesn't really fit on the page
 
@kayess, good question.
 
7:03 PM
@Sam What was that link again? The tumblr link... I am at home now. @Tunaki
 
@kayess, why are you not flagging at least for the event?;)
 
@Magisch pittypat!
 
> There are no items for you to review, matching the filter "[close]"
Going to wait for the next batch
 
@PraveenKumar Hmm which one?
 
This is close Cat
close cat wants you to spend all your CV
 
7:04 PM
The link which @Sam shared few hours ago...
 
@kayess is a heavy traffic tag - and short understandable answers generally get upvoted over long and complicated ones (sadly)
 
and close cat wants @JonClements to close at least 100 questions tonight
 
@JonClements I see...
 
@Magisch looks like a babby maine coon or something to me...
 
7:05 PM
@AndrasDeak No its close cat I told you
 
oh, yeah, sorry:P
 
Hi o/
 
@Magisch image not found
 
@BhargavRao Hiya
 
7:07 PM
now has 27 23 questions.
 
Hey
Says 23 for me
 
Plop Bhargav!
 
I like turtles.
 
@Magisch BOOM, maine coon it is!
 
@AndrasDeak no its close cat dont you listen
the link is a ruse
close cat is disappointed at you
 
7:08 PM
sd remove on it
 
All the ones left in are offtopic/tb etc. If [close] is over, please take a look at it
 
@Tunaki Done.
Sorry about that.
 
So I overwrote Nathan and you. You guys make too tiny edits ;)
 
@Kyll, you are lucky. sifting through just brought my headaches right back on track. I'll go sleep again and you can schedule the serial upvoting for another day:)
 
@JanGreve Very well then, sleep well. Hope your headaches will go away quickly
 
7:11 PM
> There are no items for you to review, matching the filter "[close]"
 
@Tunaki We just want to share the edit stats
 
@Kyll, yeah, fighting to not actually get a cold for 3 days. thanks :)
 
@Tunaki LoL.
 
ya'll have phun.
 
@JanGreve Cya, get better quickly:)
 
7:14 PM
(removed)
 
JAL
rekt
 
ikr
 
@Kyll indentation is important
 
@NathanOliver but the whole post has to be edited in shape
@Kyll Now that's a better edit.
 
7:18 PM
@Kyll @Tunaki ^ "Why did my script stopped working"
 
@Tunaki Question still makes no sense so =p
 
@AndrasDeak what are you talking about :p
 
@Tunaki no thinng:P
 
passed audit
 
@Tunaki I was mostly joking
 
7:21 PM
sigh No jokes allowed, remember?
:D
 
which rule is that?
 
Rule #1234
 
Wanted to remove from a question; was an audit
and I even passed before realizing it
 
lol
 
I was like "wtf is [close] doing in there??"
5 minutes earlier I was like "heh, [close] is a specific tag, no chance for an audit"
clearly I don't review much
 
7:25 PM
@AndrasDeak I didn't even know editing when it was an audit made you pass it.
 
JAL
Didn't clicking edit used to fail the audit?
 
I thought hitting edit in the CV queue was always a "pass"
 
But then robo-reviewers can click edit, add 6 random space and save. And pass always.
 
@Tunaki That kind of edit is easily seen by other users who can then flag
 
It kinda defeats the purpose of audits though.
 
7:30 PM
Nice to see how reactive the SO staff can be.
 
From 2009 though.
 
G'night! \o
 
Bonne nuit!
 
G'night! o/
 
7:33 PM
Sleep well
 
@Tunaki does it?
I opened in a new tab for future editing
and voted to close in review
 
dunno, that's what you said, didn't you?
 
nope:P
 
@Rizier123 69,215,433 upvotes. 8,219,161 downvotes. data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/revision/445645/566918
 
hmm what did you say then?
 
JAL
7:35 PM
@Rizier123 wow dat low question number
 
12 mins ago, by Andras Deak
Wanted to remove from a question; was an audit
 
> There are no items for you to review, matching the filter "[close]"
 
rene has added an event to this room's schedule.
 
@gunr2171 should remove the pity-upvotes for new crap
 
rene has added an event to this room's schedule.
rene has added an event to this room's schedule.
rene has added an event to this room's schedule.
 
7:38 PM
@BhargavRao poof
 
Once [turtle] is gone, I need to copy it's tag wiki to [turtle-rdf]
 
JAL
^ dupe hammered and then reopened... stackoverflow.com/posts/35803955/timeline
 
are we removing the close tag? cant see it room info
 
rene has added an event to this room's schedule.
 
@PetterFriberg Click refresh.
 
7:41 PM
rene has added an event to this room's schedule.
 
@Tunaki Urgh. Press F5 instead. Or "r" if you use Vim shortcuts
 
rene has added an event to this room's schedule.
rene has added an event to this room's schedule.
 
@Kyll chatting on SO with vim sounds awesome... or not
 
@Tunaki :%s/./Kyll/g
 
rene has added an event to this room's schedule.
rene has added an event to this room's schedule.
 
7:44 PM
@Tunaki I actually use a plugin which adds a bunch of shortcuts. It's tremendously useful
 
rene has added an event to this room's schedule.
 
Are there any close questions still in the queue? It sounds like we butchered it already. If you've got votes left, you can seed other questions for tomorrow.
 
rene has added an event to this room's schedule.
 
Yes, I'm reviewing some..
I just vote close (if close worthy) or do you like me to remove close tag?
 
rene has added an event to this room's schedule.
 
7:46 PM
Don't remove the tag, we use the burnination process to clean the site as well by closing off-topic questions.
^ no need to make cv-pls though, we'll filter the CV queue by the tag anyway
 
ok sorry... was missing a vote and clear typo...
 
rene has added an event to this room's schedule.
 
There's Quake killstreak sounds in my head when rene adds so many events
"MONSTER ADD"
 
I'm done for the month
 
gz
 
7:48 PM
But I had been slacking a bit so I almost lost my starting point
 
There are no items for you to review, matching the filter "[close]"
 
> "I just need a skeletal system of the graph im going to create. But it seems like you people are much more interested and killing innovations."
 
> added warning to excerpt not to use it for turtle graphics (which happens all the time)
From excerpt history. So I was not alone in noticing that :D
 
@AndrasDeak not sure
 
7:53 PM
OK, thanks, I'll leave it then
 
This is weird. I flagged that answer as NAA 6 days ago, but the timeline doesn't show it entering the queue.
 
Is this room fixing to start attacking the LQ queue? Seeing an awful lot of... discussion... emanating from folks here lately.
 
Hi @Shog9 o/
 
@Tunaki there's a bit of a bug with that. It's already been completed
Hoping to get that fixed next week.
 
Ah thanks!
Hiya @Shog!
 
8:05 PM
Damn, editing an NAA. Still an NAA. (imo)
 
'evening
 
@Shog9 What do you mean by "fixing to start attacking the LQ queue"?
 
Howz the company going on @Shog?
 
@Tunaki the other piece of the puzzle here is that nothing enters the LQ review queue twice (under normal circumstances). IOW, if it gets through once and gets flagged again, it requires a moderator to handle.
@Tunaki preparing
"fixing" is... a colloquialism I guess?
so, "preparing to begin a concerted effort to process items in the Low Quality review queue"
 
don't know anything about that. What we've started doing is organizing a concerned effort to flag answers in the late-answers mod-tool.
 
8:10 PM
I do all the review I can every day in LQ que.... but it has nothing to do with this room...
 
@Tunaki oh good, it needs it.
 
Earlier @Tunaki, me and a few others were attacking this page stackoverflow.com/tools/new-answers-old-questions .. Now many others have joined us.
 
@Shog9 I don't think the room as a whole has any plans outside of the CV queue (besides the [close] tag)
 
Tiny Giant actually wrote a user-script to enhance that tool and making it go through it a bit easier.
 
and NATO, forgot that
 
8:12 PM
@gunr2171 hmm. Ok. Heard essentially nothing about it for ages, then suddenly the last few days folks have been going nuts about it on meta.
 
sounds like typical meta
 
So, trying to decide if this is a sign of collective opinion reaching a critical point, or if someone's instigating somewhere ;-)
 
It is about flagging on NATO... not the que...
 
NATO strikes have started to take place a lot these days. So naturally flags and meta complaints have increased.
 
No instigation here whistles
 
8:13 PM
Like I said, I don't know of any organized LQQ discussion happening in this room.
 
and no doubt there is some confusion between moderators.. but in the end everythings seem to be solved in a correct way....
 
@PetterFriberg moderators are never wrong
:)
 
I did not say "wrong" some confusion, spam or abusive etc. but nothing important... as long as everybody get a clap on the shoulder...
 
@Shog9 Where did you see that? Maybe seeing an example will trigger a memory, but like gunr, I don't remember any organization with the LQP here
 
Shog9, do you know anything about whether the <10k late-answers queue is supposed to be empty almsot all the time?
 
pp_
8:17 PM
@AndrasDeak I have seen many meta posts about it.
 
We've also discussed that on occasion. I couldn't find any info about the difference between NATO and late-answers-queue
@pp_ answers as well?
I'll keep searching, if yes:)
 
@AndrasDeak @pp_ this one? meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/252255/… (this one might be better)
 
@AndrasDeak yes
It only takes one review to kick an item out of that queue, so there's very little resistance to keep stuff there
 
@Shog9 I have a question about this flagging issues and since you are here, I will post it to you... Understanding all the flagging in NATO, I can not understand why the LATE ANSWER que is not picking up these... or is it?
 
"NATO"?
 
8:19 PM
Ah, thanks:)
 
Feb 23 at 18:47, by Bhargav Rao
Oh And NATO means New Answers To Old questions which is this page http://stackoverflow.com/tools/new-answers-old-questions
 
@Shog9 new answers to old questions
 
@Shog9 New jargon around here. Keep your dictionary updated, will ya? ;)
 
Here I thought y'all were fomenting resistance to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization for a moment.
 
@Shog9 still whistling
 
8:20 PM
It was a code word between me and @Tunaki only, till others caught it :D
 
@PetterFriberg you're asking why the Late Answers review queue is missing all the crap you guys find in the 10K tools?
 
that was also kinda my point
 
I don't @Tunaki and boys do... but exactly that is my question....
 
but "it's a review queue, stuff get removed from it" didn't occur to me
 
Because there are a lot of shitty reviewers, and with no chance to establish consensus most stuff just gets waved on through by folks clicking "No Action Needed"
 
8:22 PM
:S
 
pp_
There are much more First Posts than Late Answers to review, am I right?
 
Its always empty, raise the rep needed?
 
the bane of SO (well, one of the banes)
 
Sadly, that was my theory. I remember a post about increasing the number of reviews needed to kick it out.
 
eh
The flip side is that before that queue existed, only a handful of people used the 10K tools and a lot of stuff got overlooked.
So... Kinda doomed both ways
 
I would rather like to get rid of that queue entirely and replace it with something like Triage, where a minimum number of reviews is required to pass an answer.
 
> There is one way we could expand these review queues, now that they're consistently sitting empty, and that's to increase the number of reviews required for a post to be removed from these two queues.
 
The big sticking point with both First Posts and Late Answers is that they allow voting, which means if you enforce multiple reviews per post there's a chance you get multiple votes per post, which - when we briefly allowed that - had very, very bad results
 
@Shog9 Can I ask what you do in your spare time? I know you're busy, no hard feelings in telling me to shut it =p
 
that's a weird question
 
8:25 PM
what spare time?:D
 
Shog, Now that you mentioned about NATO, can you help us by giving an update to this? meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/312246/…
 
Yes, that --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------^
 
I garden, cook, brew beer, eat and drink, occasionally sleep.
 
I happen to specialize in weird questions
 
pp_
I probably should avoid Late Answers anyway, it's the only queue where I fail audits.
 
8:26 PM
@Tunaki Oops, overshot the length.
 
@Tunaki Figure some % of posts always get handled wrong in these queues. Forget about why, just assume that there are common ways in which things can go wrong.
 
do python users usually close questions with completely jacked up indentation as a typographical error?
 
@Kyll "I do human things in my human spare time"
@cimmanon is it the only problem? Then sure:D
 
In LQ queue, for instance, some number of crap posts get waved through with "Looks OK" and some number of decent posts get deleted (or at least, recommended for deletion).
Those two outcomes are pretty easy to correct though.
 
@cimmanon sometimes, example would help.
 
8:27 PM
If something goes wrong in Late Answers, it might mean a non-answer gets an upvote.
That's harder to correct.
If we required multiple reviews, it might mean a non-answer gets 3 or more upvotes
That would be really hard to correct.
 
oh, interesting
 
@BhargavRao ive got a sass question thats basically boils down to the guy using the indented syntax with absolutely no indentation. or maybe he screwed up the markdown in the question, hard to tell: stackoverflow.com/questions/35805161/…
 
We just have to ensure that people don't upvote crap...should be easy
 
Another question for you, the close que is increasing... and once I saw you comment "You can only clean until you hit packed dirty" can you elaborate this or is it better not to...
 
@cimmanon is the problem "unexpected indentation" or something?
 
8:29 PM
And for the brief period of time when we allowed (not even enforced - just allowed) that to happen, it did, and there were piles of horrible answers with multiple upvotes floating around. It was really really bad.
Incidentally, that's why I'm dead-set against allowing voting in any other queue ever.
 
Sounds terrible indeed.
 
Even Triage, designed as sort of a spiritual successor to First Posts, only allows a single vote per task, and doesn't require it.
 
@AndrasDeak its a case of absolutely no indentation
 
@cimmanon That's hard of me as I have no knowledge of that. Simple rule - Will the question help the community sometime in the future? Then don't close. Python indent errors are "too localized", so we go for typo as the nearest close reason.
 
@PetterFriberg I forget where I said that, but the gist of it is that active bad stuff is inherently more problematic than inactive bad stuff. A lousy question that never attracts answers is much less of a problem than an equally lousy question that gets an answer every day.
 
pp_
8:33 PM
@Shog9 Getting your low quality answers into a review queue seems like an easy way to get lots of upvotes
 
Think of it like lead paint... Totally not a problem until it flakes off and you eat or inhale it, then a big problem. So you put all your effort into making sure that it's removed and disposed of without contaminating people or the surrounding environment, and comparatively little work into paint that is solid and untouched.
@pp_ uh, yeah, there are some potentially huge unintended consequences there.
Which is why there is no voting in LQ review
 
But this is a problem related to search engines.. or SO? I mean who cares about how many answers there are....
and there is no way to find a shovel..
 
@PetterFriberg well, someone who needs an answer might. But even that is beside the point; the problem is that the question is drawing activity, not so much the nature of that activity. Could be edits, flags, even votes.
 
A question no one looks at is by definition not a big problem because there's no one seeing it for it to trouble. One that is constantly demanding attention has potential to constantly cause trouble.
 
8:39 PM
@Drew cleaning old typo questions you answered :D
 
One part of the additional attention that some of us have been putting on NATO has been about making it more effective. @Tiny's put together a UserScript that gives us a more complete context around the answers (i.e. the question), and lets us flag, vote, comment and edit without leaving the page. I, for one, have been improving more of these posts thanks to that.
 
@Tunaki what non-sense to be remembered by
 
Yes. Are there any plans to improve that page @Shog?
 
not at present
 
Ok thanks I understand.... and the fact the close que is increasing any thoughts about this?.... I feel the bigger it gets, the less people review.. (its like 10K you like to spend 10 minutes to close 6 of them)
 
8:41 PM
but that explains what Tiny was getting at with his weird tag-editor "bug" the other night
 
@Shog9 Yep - that's it.
 
I haven't seen his script, but the UI you describe is roughly equivalent to that available to moderators in the flag queue
I hate it
I have my own userscript for flags that presents one flagged post at a time, with forward/back navigation through the list. So at any point in time, I'm looking at exactly one question + answers, with full context for just those posts.
I prefer this immensely. It's easy to overlook things when you're peering at a post out of context.
 
Basically, it replaces the content of each answer with the whole answer (comments, you can flag, vote, etc...) and it adds the question as well
 
@Tunaki so, like review except you have... what, 20 tasks per page?
 
@Shog9 That's why we did this. Here's the script, if you want to test-drive.
 
8:44 PM
@shog9 to save the trouble of some other question elsewhere, is it inherently evil to cause to ROOMBA something that in ones decent judgment just is crap on this site. Like say 10 to 30 times a day
 
@Tunaki can't exactly be easy to see plagiarized answers that way
 
@Shog9 Pretty much. Make that 20 x 25 :D.
 
But making it realtime is the best that can ever happen to that. My [f5] key has almost crashed.
 
@Drew what?
 
@Shog9 No, those are still hard to catch.
 
8:45 PM
@shog9 is the strategy of leveraging ROOMBA evil
 
@Drew by...?
 
@Drew You mean downvote just to get the question roomba'd? Someone once used the word "dickish" to describe that.
 
I mean to clean this site
 
Wait... that was Shog!
 
@Drew We used that before in a tag clean-up and were asked to stop
 
8:47 PM
I stare at hundreds a day. With one little trigger friendly finger they go poof. And shog knows about it anyway. Why not get some commentary
I mean I have a query. There they are. Ripe
 
@Drew is this then related: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/307009/… ?
 
We call that... That Day.
 
@Drew stop being cagey. Are you saying you downvote perfectly good questions just to amuse yourself?
 
@shog9 I am asking is it decent to cleanse this site are horsecrap by leveraging roomba
I don't do cagey
 
Already said yesterday down votes != delete votes
 
8:50 PM
already said yesterday. We clean this site
 
@Drew You can use your votes how you like but I'm not supporting down voting organized in the context of this room.
 
Now look. I just wiped 6 rep off the table able for myself. For the record. We need to clean this site
@rene that is NOT what i am asking
 
@Drew but you get it back so it doesn't really cost you anything
 
@Drew Sure I just want to make sure casual readers of the transcript understand what my position is, please continue
 
@NathanOliver I am saying if a Q&A is crap (in our opinion as adults) lets kill it
I am not sure what you mean Nathan
 
8:53 PM
@Drew you can't "leverage" roomba. You can vote in various ways, and some of those affect how the auto-deletion scripts run - but the intent there is for the roomba to leverage voting in order to identify poor / abandoned posts. If you vote contrary to your conscience when it comes to post content in order to mislead the roomba, that is bad, yes.
 
@Drew If the Q is bad then fell free to down vote it. If the Q is good then you should not down vote it to get it deleted. we have delete votes for that.
 
If such behavior became common, we would have to disable or dramatically adjust the logic that controls automatic deletion.
 
seriously? jhipster?
 
One change I'm already considering is reseting the applicable "timer" when any action is taken on a post - editing, answering, commenting, even voting. The latter would make it extremely inconvenient to "manipulate" these scripts.
 
@Shog9 I think that was already suggested in the post rene linked to
as in "the script doesn't take into account when the votes were given"
 
8:56 PM
@Shog9 I appreciate a clean answer. I am not voting contrary to my conscience. I am voting explicitly to leverage the ROOMBA script and I make no bones about it. I can deliver a list. It is pretty simple. I can plop it in the beehive
 
@Drew You might be talking about different things. Aren't you?
 
@Shog9 So after a vote on a closed question it would take another 9 days to get a closed post roomba-ed?
 
archive files folder of course. No one will really care anyway
 
@Sam Yes, gotcha...
 
8:56 PM
do you really mean downvoting good answers to crap questions in order to delete the crap question pseudoautomatically?
 
@AndrasDeak no
 
Ok, explain again
 
OK then. That seems to be what the others are objecting to, for good reason
Let's short circuit the communicational problems if possible:)
 
Shog knows and I know that there is this little window when no one on earth can deal with the consequences of ROOMB right Shog, like around 3am UTC
all you have to do is touch it
 
That's still cryptic to me
 
8:58 PM
And nothing I would do would be slimy
it aint to him
 
OK...:)
I admit I'm a small fish, I'm just being curious
 
And like above I just wiped away 6 rep for myself (for the love of god). Why not clean this site of crap
 

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