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@Aaron as has been mentioned, pinning the rules has been tried before, and didn't help. We've also discussed ways to maintain decent etiquette at length at our regular room meetings. Campaigning for stars is definitely outside the spirit, if not the letter, of the room's etiquette, though.
 
What's going on here?
 
@AlexanderHuszagh don't want to steal your thunder, but that's not a MultiIndex only thing
I think it's design behaviour
 
@JonClements trello pls
 
9:06 PM
Ah fair, seems like it.
I'll edit it then that it's by design.
 
@AlexanderHuszagh I guess you can construct the example for yourself to show that it does the same with a simple index?
 
Yeah I'll do that now
 
Well - don't go on my say so that's it's by desing
 
I'll test it and get back to you. Thanks for the heads up.
 
but I'm guessing that's why the two reference different values
here's the test case:
 
9:08 PM
@Aaron stop, take a deep breath, and consider what it means that two long-standing room owners have effectively shown you a "yellow card".
 
df = pd.DataFrame([1,2,3],index=['bar','baz','foo'])
df.drop('bar')
df.index
 
Yep. You're right. I just used the same example and it's identical.
s = p.Series(np.random.randn(6))
s.drop(0)
s.index
 
cbg all
 
Cabbage
 
@AlexanderHuszagh I think you can edit your answer to suit that. Give the simpler example. I can't see anything in the docs that says it's definitely by design, but I can think of instances where you might want to keep a reference to a temporarily empty label. Not trying to get in with a different answer
 
9:12 PM
Actually nevermind @JRichardSnape.

For series, it should drop it.

I forgot my inplace=True.

s.index
Int64Index([0,1, 2, 3, 4, 5], dtype='int64')
s.drop(0, inplace=True)
s.index
Int64Index([1, 2, 3, 4, 5], dtype='int64')

So I'm actually unsure if this is by design or a bug. Since dataframe objects and series are different, but this seems to be different for a series and a dataframe.
 
@AaronHall I am really surprised by how your behavior in the room has changed over the past few weeks. Please recognize that the same rules apply to all users, whether they are high rep, gold badge holders or not. I was going to try to be more polite about this, but I think this xkcd post sums it up better: xkcd.com/1357
 
Kicked. That was getting silly.
 
Yep, I was just giving him a minute to read the message first.
 
@JRichardSnape, I tested it with a standard index. It seems to be the exact same. I suggested that Joaquin file a bug report. Any issues? If the standard Index class for pandas does drop the index from both levels and labels, I'm correct the behavior in MultiIindex is not by design?
 
okay - got 3 kick notices in 4 hours... what's really going here?
 
9:24 PM
davidism and zero are on a power trip
Apparently can't handle a little bit of disagreement without kicking people and deleting their posts.
 
ISTM the deleted messages and RO Trello explain the situation reasonably well; anything you're unclear about @Jon ?
 
I think we're entitled to due process.
 
@AlexanderHuszagh yes - you are right. I forgot inplace=True for the drop too. My mistake. It probably is a bug then, because the multiindex behaviour conflicts with that for a standard index
 
We all followed the rules.
 
@ZeroPiraeus nope
 
9:28 PM
Awesome thanks. Yeah, I updated it to recommend a bug report and indicate standard behavior.
 
I tell people at my Python meetups to join StackOverflow and contribute.
 
@AaronHall you've got an indication that you've been asked to the leave the room... come back later, oka?
 
They complain of being treated shabbily.
I'm off to an evening meetup. I'm not happy with how I've been treated.
 
enjoy your meet up
 
I'm running Anaconda with Python 3 on Windows 7, and I wanted to install twisted (using "conda install twisted") so I could run a simple FTP server using this command: "twisted -n ftp" that I found in this question: stackoverflow.com/a/4994862
but after I installed it, running "twisted" from the command line just says it's not recognized.
I assume I have to add something to the path, but I can't find what to add. Am I missing something?
 
9:35 PM
@AlexanderHuszagh This feature request may be relevant too github.com/pydata/pandas/issues/1569, although not directly the same.
 
@MichaelA It's twistd not twisted :-)
 
@ZeroPiraeus I still get the same message, though. I think something is missing from the path.
 
In that case, no idea. Windows isn't my thing I'm afraid.
 
@ZeroPiraeus Ok, thanks. It's not my thing either but I'm doing this on my office computer.
@ZeroPiraeus Is this an acceptable question to ask on SO, even though it's not directly about code?
 
It's almost certainly been asked before.
 
9:37 PM
You guys keep making me want to go Linux.. But what about all my precious pc games
 
I would say yes, if you can't find a dupe.
 
It boils down to finding the twistd executable and making sure it's directory is on the path.
 
@Dracunos, dual boot/wine/virtual machine.
 
What is wine?
 
9:39 PM
@davidism Possibly a kink in Anaconda though, no? I'd expect something like that to manage the path as part of installation (but that may be naïvety on my part).
 
Yeah, I'm surprised it's not doing it.
 
@davidism @ZeroPiraeus this question (stackoverflow.com/questions/9440303/…) looks like what I want, so I'm trying to get that to work now.
Usually anaconda is good about handling the paths automatically.
 
Any suggestions on places to learn Python? I've already been using CodeA.
 
@WUDA inventwithpython.com, diveintopython3.net, and docs.python.org/3/tutorial are our standard recommendations
 
@davidism, any particular reason why? Python2/Python3 reasons?
 
9:42 PM
It's definitely a bit outdated
 
We don't recommend it because it's structured in such a way that you get new users asking questions rather than just continuing to read.
 
@david
 
Ah fair. Thanks.
 
@davidism the learning python the hard way?
 
yes
 
9:45 PM
@AlexanderHuszagh We see a lot of questions from people that are struggling with LPTHW, which collectively give a sense (from the kind of problems people are repeatedly having) that it's not much cop. Also, Zed has seriously outdated views about 2.x vs 3.x and is not shy about claiming those views are facts.
 
Second, what program do you guys like using for Python? I used to do a lot of HTML/CSS, but that was years ago.
 
Fair enough. I learned a bit of C and Python the hard way in the last year, so I guess I'll have to look at those other books to ensure my views aren't incorrect.
 
I'm really trying to get back into it all. Plus GIS work...
 
Do something you like, or are interested in. The possibilities are pretty wide open with Python.
 
@davidism, I mean what program do you like using to write it.
 
Does anyone know if scraping is illegal? or if its only if they state in their TnCs not to
 
Most places don't appreciate it, if nothing else. We are not the place for legal advice though.
 
Just wrote a thing that extracts tables from GP Earnings and Expenses Time Series 2002-3 to 2012-13.xls. Should be up on Github in a couple of days ...
 
If there is an api, it is always recommended to use that over scraping.
 
The Health and Social Care Information Centre proudly boasts of its "open data" policy then publishes data in an outdated Excel format.
 
9:53 PM
What is the API is for personal use only?
 
Then use it for personal use only.
 
@davidism That's an Excel spreadsheet file, no scraping involved - done with openpyxl with a view to opening the data up
 
So publicly available data like what time a sports game is on is not allowed to be scrapped
 
@StephenWolfe again, we are not the place for legal advice
if you are really concerned, ask the site in question
 
The program is still only a prototype, but it extracted 104 tables from 29 sheets in the workbook - as Pandas DataFrames
 
9:55 PM
@davidism its more of a discussion thought
 
It's not like the police are going to come for you if you do, your ip will just eventually get banned if you abuse it.
 
@holdenweb Oh, I dream of extractin' from Excel! Would ha' been a palace to me. I get woke up every morning by having a load of rotting PDFs dumped all over me! Excel? Huh.
 
@StephenWolfe What's to discuss? Web sites have terms and conditions. Use the site, follow the Ts and Cs
 
@holdenweb how does google bots know what they say?
 
what does google have to do with this?
 
9:56 PM
@ZeroPiraeus you can forget extracting from PDFs as far as I'm concerned. That's even more horrible than web scraping
 
Zed is pretty opinionated. Hard to talk bad about the tutorial that got me into the wonderful world of programming though
 
they scrape sites
 
@StephenWolfe it's called robots.txt
standard location for site rules regarding scraping
 
@StephenWolfe the bots announce themselves (i.e. they identify themselves in their user agent) and they respoect robots.txt
 
9:57 PM
@StephenWolfe Is this the £5 argument or the £10 argument? Bots read robots.txt if they are well-behaved. That's what the file was designed for
 
And there is nothing stoping a bot from getting blocked just like any other ip visiting a site
 
@tzaman so by doing so your following the rules
 
@StephenWolfe please clarify exactly what you're asking. As it is, the discussion seems to be going nowhere.
 
@davidism I think i have enough info now.
 
@Dracunos Zed is a pretty marginal character all round in my opinion, but then he's on record as saying that I shouldn't run conferences because I am a serial code-of-conduct violator. Yam him.
 
9:59 PM
Laurel
 
This room seems to have a weird vibe tonight. Think I'll rhubarb for the night. Hasta la cabbage, all
 
Rhubarb @holdenweb
 
See you
 
We had a somewhat odd incident earlier, that may be it. Anyway, rbrb :-)
 
It was really weird. I guess everyone has their moments
 
10:02 PM
oh, hang on — is my Excel/PDF thing part of the weird vibe maybe?
Because that was a cheap "Four Yorkshiremen" reference that it seems nobody got.
 
@JonClements when you get a chance, would you mind cleaning up the bookmarked conversations?
 
which ones?
 
uh, probably the latest 6, they don't really fit with the other bookmarks
It's really weird that we can curate the star list but not the bookmark list.
 
never understood that myself
just send me the links
cbg @Martijn
 
10:08 PM
And let me say, since I first joined the room not too long ago I've been made to feel very welcome here
 
user559633
any cabbagers out in silicon valley?
 
No, but I watched Silicon Valley.
 
user559633
:[
 
user559633
i'm job hunting and wanted to know if it sucked out there
 
The cost of living is ridiculously out of proportion to the amount of useful work getting done.
 
10:10 PM
@davidism certainly not going to get into a tizz about it, but wondered on why you thought the one I bookmarked needed deleting. I don't really mind, but thought it was potentially some thoughts I might want to refer to at other times
 
@Dracunos we do our best :)
 
user559633
someone sent me this bullshit passive aggressive email after he spent the last week being in the way and i responded in the MTFL fashion, so i'm lining up offers :)
 
@JRichardSnape sorry, just being consistent with curating the starred list. If you want to bookmark things for personal reference, you can always just bookmark in the browser. Here's the transcript link: chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/6?m=22989753#22989753
@tristan didn't you move to Russia though?
 
user559633
nah, not move. my company is having a really hard time hiring and i wanted out of new york, so i got a "don't ask don't tell" sort of arrangement of where i'm working out of
 
user559633
this is besides the fact that they haven't updated the state of my residence, which is a different hilarious set of things that go into action if the corporate drones ruin my tomorrow
 
10:15 PM
@davidism thanks - I hadn't thought of that really (personally bookmarking).
 
Oh sorry, @davidism, that's why I was randomly starring things. I was storing them mainly for personal reference. That helps a lot. Sorry about that.
 
@tristan thought you were in Berlin??
 
yeah - I've been a bit fuzzy about the purpose of starring. Are there guidelines? I'm happy if not, TBH - I'd rather leave it purposely fuzzy myself, but just wondering.
 
user559633
@JonClements i'm all around you. i'm in the laughs of children, in the tears of grandmothers, in that disgusting city-juice that gets splashed by a passing bus
 
Our room guideline is basically: don't star helpful things (unless they're truly remarkable), star fun things. We also remove things that don't gather 3 stars in 3 days.
 
user559633
10:19 PM
[but really, no, i'm in russia. we're heading to germany after, then ny if i still have a job by then]
 
cool - that's kind of what I'd gleaned about stars. Glad to know I hadn't completely mis-judged :)
 
Thanks for that. Any chance you can add them here?
http://sopython.com/chatroom

Maybe add a new section called guidelines?
 
@tristan I don't think I'll ever be certain of the truth
It is there, near the bottom
 
user559633
@davidism no, really, i'm in moscow
 
0
Q: Is one statement in python turing complete?

Christopher ShrobaIs a single line of python code without semicolons turing complete? In other words, can any computable problem be solved in one line of python code? Edit to be completely clear: Consider a python statement (by my own definition) to be one line of python code not containing any semicolons. Are a...

 
10:21 PM
I see "Don't star posts to reward users for answering your questions", but nothing about starring for bookmarks, etc.
 
@tristan you could be shaking my hand, and I wouldn't be sure it wasn't a body double
 
is that even a valid question for SO ... im so torn .... but Im also right (imho at least:P)
 
user559633
@davidism well, i'm a twin, so it might be? (not really)
 
I'm out, rhubarb all.
 
user559633
take care @davidism
 
10:26 PM
Really? Star only fun things?
That's interesting :)
 
@Dracunos read over the star list to get a general idea of what sticks: chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/info/6/python/?tab=stars
 
Yeah, I always figured you guys were just really lax on the rules, not that it actually was the rule
 
user559633
only star things that are dense nebulous gases that experience extremely cold pockets
 
So tonight, at midnight pst.. I become 29.my last year before I can never be in my 20s again :( oh yam
 
I like to star fish
 
10:29 PM
It's actually sea star
 
that is STARtling
ok coffee is clearly in my future
 
user559633
haha i suck at reading
 
Rhubarb everyone
 
@tristan what is your avatar of? It reminds me of worms Armageddon :p
 
its Commander Keen
he was a computer game character in the early 90's (I think thats when I had my keen hayday)
 
10:54 PM
 
Wow that's even older than worms
 
user559633
@davidism files bug report because he cannot open
 
it's a feature ;-)
 
user559633
you're right afk going to sob into my white wine
 
Remember that time I said I was leaving? Well now I'm actually leaving. Rhubarb.
 
user559633
10:56 PM
@davidism "now" is fuzzy
 
White wine? I had you down as more of a bathtub gin guy ...
 
user559633
hah! that's actually pretty accurate -- beer/whisky/samogon/poitin in order of preference
 
user559633
i was making a joke about being over dramatic
 
user559633
anyway, bedtime. rbrb
 
'barb
 
11:00 PM
rbrb
 
cbg all
I'm just trying to figure out pyparsing, is there some convenient way to match single characters?
 
In pandas, I accidentally have two columns with the same value. How can I index on the second occurrence of the column name in order to rename it?
 
Never mind, figured it out, OneOrMore does what I need. pyparsing is particularly awesome!
 
11:16 PM
In pandas, I accidentally have two columns with the same value. How can I index on the second occurrence of the column name in order to rename it?
(Sorry to have sent it twice, I thought I disconnected)
 
11:32 PM
@JonClements I have a problem with the running of this room. What venue is appropriate for me to bring grievances?
 
@AaronHall running of rooms is left to the room and own policiies
 
I think that's problematic.
The room owners are not elected.
And they have no accountability.
At least that is transparent to the outside.
Further, they have no competition, as StackOverflow forbids redundant topics.
 
I am a major stakeholder in this room, and I have no voice.
 
Got a declined flag after 6 months
:'(
 
11:41 PM
@AaronHall you have a voice that you can make - if it disruptes the room or makes other members of the room unhappy, expect to be kicked
 
im pretty sure @JonClements is just one of the room moderators if you want to change chat overflow you should probably post on meta(or talk to a site moderator I guess) ... jon can take it to the next owners meeting i think but I doubt much will come of that ...
 
No one was unhappy until Zero and David started acting like bulls in a china shop.
 
I didnt really see much about it other than some goofy rules that you were telling people to star ... it seemed largely goofy and not really worth getting too bent out of shape about ... if it was me I would probably just let bygones be bygones, agree to disagree and move on ...
 
This is a thing that academics study: hum.sagepub.com/content/47/7/755.abstract
It's called Petty Tyranny.
There's a wikipedia article on it: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petty_tyranny
 
Im not defending it and understand where you are coming from ... it seemed heavy handed to me ... but all Im saying is I guess I am an enabler of petty tyranny and would just move on :/
Im also not siding with you necessarily (I didn't see enough to tell much about what was going on ...)
 
11:47 PM
From the paper abstract: "A petty tyrant is defined as one who lords his or her power over others. Preliminary empirical work suggests that tyrannical behaviors include arbitrariness and self-aggrandizement, belittling others, lack of consideration, a forcing style of conflict resolution, discouraging initiative, and noncontingent punishment."
I think you can check every box there.
The fact is, I shouldn't have to bring these grievances.
 
but I think that SO chatrooms are not democracies ... they are more like monarchy's
 
anyone here know Bash? I'm trying to declare a variable in AWS with a S3 file, so is this correct: actualsize=$(wc -c <"s3://filename")
Do I need the double quotes? Any quotes? no quotes?
 
you only need double quotes if there are spaces in the file path
 
@JoranBeasley that is problematic because there is no competition and no oversight. The Magna Carta exists for a reason.
 
11:52 PM
cool, thanks
 
Ok, I'll check every box: Aaron Hall, in defending his behavior, has: arbitrarily decided to enforce his perception of the rules, has self-aggrandized as a high rep gold badge holder, has called the room owners petty and assigned labels to them, does not consider that their position may be justified, has continued to bring up the issue to force resolution
 
@davidism the bully is the one punching down.
 
@davidism slack?
 
is there an aws chat room on s/o?
 
If you want to continue this discussion, please open a new room and invite the relevant parties to it, the Python room is not the appropriate place any longer.
@ZeroPiraeus let me see if it works on mobile
 
11:57 PM
@AaronHall There's been a little (not much yet) discussion among ROs of issues raised by what happened earlier, which look likely to end up being discussion points in the next General Meeting for the room.
 
Great. Will I be joining that meeting as an owner?
 
@jor
 
If you have grievances, that might be a reasonable place to discuss them. The last general meeting wasn't all that long ago, but personally I wouldn't object in principle to bringing the next one forward if there's a consensus to do so.
 
@JoranBeasley if I want to compare filesize to an integer, is it (wc -c <"s3://filename") > 0
 
General meetings are open to all; being an owner confers no particular privilege other than the implied respect that resulted in RO status in the first place.
 

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