« first day (28 days earlier)      last day (4906 days later) » 

12:00 AM
Nah C# is nice. Less bad than Java as a language. Less verbose. More things to play with. But nothing as stimulating as C++.
I proly shouldn't spit into the well of my next job. Proly. :-S
 
I miss C++. I miss its deterministic object lifetimes and its const correctness, its function pointer syntax and its truly generic generics...
 
it had Java to use to know what mistakes to avoid
 
Ok, just kidding about the function pointer syntax.
 
I just enjoy these days reading the news, observing the fall of the giant who claimed to come and kill C++.
@JamesMcNellis C++ solved C's function-pointer syntax: it has templates. It's just that it moved the awful syntax into the compiler-errors domain.
 
As far as number of programmer jobs, it succeeded in beating C++, but it was never a battle in the first place
C++ still has awful syntax, most of it inherited, or a consequence of inherited features, from C
 
12:06 AM
Speaking of templates. This question sparks my curiosity. My gut feeling says there is a way.
@RogerPate yeah, I agree. It's a hot debate of whether these C chains do more good than bad to C++.
 
@wilhelmtell Would using a pointer be cheating?
 
They mentioned it with void*
But that gives up static information.
But I have a gut feeling it's possible to do with template meta-programming, because that allows for static recursion.
It's just that I don't know even what to aim for, because from the question I'm not sure what the op even wants. Like, the typedefs don't say what he wants. They express an infinite recursion, surely not what he wants.
So it's hard to know what to aim for.
 
You don't need a void*; you just need a forward declared struct that wraps the iterator type. You don't have to define the struct until after you've defined the two map types.
 
And how would you forward-declare the struct?
The struct has an iterator of which type?
 
What's wrong with
template <typename K, typename V>
class C
{
  struct timestamp_to_key_iterator_type;
  struct key_to_value_iterator_type;
  typedef std::map<
            long long,
            key_to_value_iterator_type*
          > timestamp_to_key_type;
  typedef std::map<
            K,
            std::pair<V, timestamp_to_key_iterator_type*>
          > key_to_value_type;
  struct timestamp_to_key_iterator_type
  {
    timestamp_to_key_type::iterator value;
  };
  struct key_to_value_iterator_type
  {
    key_to_value_type::iterator value;
(Sorry, maybe that's a little big for the chat...)
 
12:40 AM
how will tags play out once 0x is ratified?
> I'd compare this to [c++] vs [c++0x]: we use the latter for the upcoming standard (tagging both), but we'll soon start using [c++11] or 12, and eventually use just [c++] for the new standard (using [c++03] at that point as necessary). meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/70086/…
 
What does arity mean in this context? stackoverflow.com/questions/4170201/…
 
f(a) has arity 1, f(a, b) has arity 2
 
Ah, thanks Roger.
 
1:00 AM
@JamesMcNellis sorry for the delay. It's hard to active on the board at the same time as being active on chat. So hard, so hard.
But your solution bears a runtime cost now.
And typedefs usually hint they have no runtime cost.
 
am I missing something in my answer to that circular typedef question? it seemed straight-forward
 
I honestly can't tell because I don't know what the types are supposed to mean.
But it just seemed to me that if there's a circular typedef then there's something wrong with the intent, in general. And that it can be resolved by straightening the logic of the intent.
But the op has to say what he wants, really.
 
are you familiar with boost::bimap?
 
I am.
 
It's like defining a Schtroumpf as a kind friend of another schtroumpf, and then asking to fix the definition. You first have to know what you're aiming at!
I am. A little.
 
1:12 AM
he wants two keys to map to the same value, but avoid duplicate lookup overhead as much as possible
 
"he"?
 
That's not what boost::bimap does; boost::bimap is a bidirectional mapping (key => value and value => key), isn't it?
 
@JamesMcNellis yes.
 
@wilhelmtell: either timday is a he or she's a bearded woman :)
 
mmk
 
1:14 AM
@James: but it sidesteps the problem by mapping K <=> TS alongside a regular map of K => V
 
Oh, right.
 
which is essentially what I do in my answer: K => V (or K => (V, TS)) plus TS => iterator
 
I think OP starts with a map K -> V, presumably meaning Key -> Value. And wants a one to one relation to a timestamp so that the timestamp can be used to look up the K -> V map.
 
It also takes forever to compile, at least with Visual C++ 2008 on my older machine it did. It took something like 45 seconds to compile a single TU that used a few boost::bimap s (not that that's a reason not to use it...).
 
that is a reason not to use it :(
 
1:17 AM
Maybe he is looking for something closer to boost::multimap then...
 
I'm scared to admit it, because you guys'll star it like crazy, but I rarely use most parts of boost.
 
@Roger no one does
 
I imagine a multimap is restricted just like bimap, as far as his requirements go
 
I've only used a few pieces of Boost. I don't think anyone uses most of it.
 
@Roger more scary, in a meeting of about 30 C++ programmers in Oslo I asked who had heard of MPL. One person had (in addition to me).
 
1:19 AM
There are pieces I am aware of and have always wanted to try (e.g., the pointer containers) but that I've just never had the opportunity to use.
 
the pointer containers are especially nice :)
it seems many don't understand them, however
I've had a couple of nice comment threads explaining them
2
A: Design of pointer container template

Drew HallHow about: typedef std::vector<boost::shared_ptr<T> > List; That is, I think it's better to use a resource managing pointer within regular container classes than to reinvent each of the container classes to add resource management capability.

I know there was at least one more longer one, but I lost it
-1 for not being able to search comments
 
Boost is like a candy store. There's so much in there, and sometimes it's fun just to peek around and see what's in store. But it's huge, huge. And some parts are more useful than others, while other parts are way more useful than others.
2
 
@AlfPSteinbach Eh. At my last place of work, there was only one person (plus me) on a team of ~20 C++ developers that understood templates at all. I was told in several peer reviews not to use macros. I think they meant templates. :-|
 
I've heard of MPL but this thing always looked overwhelmingly complex for me. I always had the feeling it's more like a meta-library: a library for other libraries.
I know boost uses it extensively all over the place.
@JamesMcNellis fellow C++ developers confusing templates with macros in year 2010 is downright embarrassing.
 
:-)
I'm going to tell you all what I miss in Boost. Namely immutable strings. They're fast, they're what Java and C# got Right.
Now don't tell me Boost has got them (somewhere in last few years)...
 
1:27 AM
@AlfPSteinbach You make it sound like that's the one and only thing Java and C# got right :-P
 
@James: yes, isn't it?
 
hey
 
@AlfPSteinbach No, they also have garbage collection, which means you don't have to worry about nasty memory leaks like you do in C++!
LOL... I can't say that without laughing...
 
Ah, you're joking.
 
Friends, I would like to record my conversations, both the microphone and the audio output. you know tell me how?
 
1:29 AM
@AlfPSteinbach const std::string yo_im_immutable_sup("kthx");
@PhE offtopic
 
Oh, gotta go. But re immutable strings: I wish someone one do them, and submit to Boost. I started on something like that many years ago, like "Alfs stringvalue" or something on SourceForge. But other things caught my interest, so it's just there, like a sketch.
 
Goodnight.
 
@wilhelmtell Sorry. Who? My english is bad, sorry
 
@wilhemltell yes that's poor man's version nice for some things
 
@AlfPSteinbach typedef const std::string immutable_string;
 
1:31 AM
afk
 
@AlfPSteinbach ciao
 
going through bookmarks and just wanted to point out this comment :) stackoverflow.com/questions/4104989/…
bottom of the SS
tried to figure out what other funny words fit the pattern, but gave up since I knew it'd be deleted quickly
 
LOL
Maybe he didn't get it because he is a C++BITCH. :-O
 
@Alf: I had a post where I talked about an immutable C++ string class with lots of whistles (i.e. kitchen sink like std::string), is what I was looking for, but don't see it
haha
8
A: correct idiom for std::string constants?

Roger PateThe copying and lack of "string literal optimization" is just how std::strings work, and you cannot get exactly what you're asking for. Partially this is because virtual methods and dtor were explicitly avoided. The std::string interface is plenty complicated without those, anyway. The standar...

 
1:53 AM
@JamesMcNellis when you said earlier you miss C++, is it because it's not what you do at your day job?
 
@wilhelmtell I started a new job in September. I now have the joy of programming in C#.
 
Ah. Last time I programming in C# was about two months ago.
 
C# is a good language; it has its flaws just like every other language does. I'm just having a hard time with the paradigm shift.
 
My biggest issue with C# is its vendor locking.
But also its platform-dependence.
Which is a showstopper for me, in terms of choice of language for pet-projects.
 
most popular languages are good; it's easy to overlook that when enumerating flaws
@wilhelmtell: same here, on both counts
 
1:56 AM
The thing I love most about C++ is its obsession with correctness, even at the price of complexity. Sometimes being correct means being complex. We haven't found a universal truth yet, what can we do.
 
you would love haskell :)
 
@wilhelmtell I even find some of its complexity to be fun. I really enjoy trying to figure out how the more complex parts of C++ work.
 
@JamesMcNellis Amen.
Most people find it's complex for the sake of being complex.
This is so wrong.
It's complex because writing correct software is fucking complex, that's why.
 
@tina: I might've mentioned this before, but it seems you'd get better assistance with UML in a different place — we just aren't that familiar or appreciative of it
@wilhelmtell echos of dijkstra
The competent programmer is fully aware of the strictly limited size of his own skull; therefore he approaches the programming task in full humility, and among other things he avoids clever tricks like the plague. — Edsger W. Dijkstra, EWD340
Programming is one of the most difficult branches of applied mathematics; the poorer mathematicians had better remain pure mathematicians. — Edsger W. Dijkstra, EWD498
 
@RogerPate and Stroustrup. It's his mantra, and I really believe in it. Also, the mantra of Java where "hardware gets faster faster than software does, so lets enjoy ourselves" friggin kills me.
 
1:59 AM
the latter is what I was originally looking for
From a bit to a few hundred megabytes, from a microsecond to a half an hour of computing confronts us with completely baffling ratio of 10**9! The programmer is in the unique position that his is the only discipline and profession in which such a gigantic ratio, which totally baffles our imagination, has to be bridged by a single technology. He has to be able to think in terms of conceptual hierarchies that are much deeper than a single mind ever needed to face before. — E. W. Dijkstra
 
Sutter wrote about it about a decade ago, that concurrency is the next Big Thing because physics is not going to let this Moore Law thingy give us free lunch forever.
 
You probably know that arrogance, in computer science, is measured in nanodijkstras. — Alan Kay, keynote speech at OOPSLA 1997
okay, I'll stop now
 
@tina no
@tina offtopic. Go to a UML chatroom or post a question with UML tag.
 
@tina: you're welcome to ask a programming question, I just don't think (based on past UML questions you've asked) that we can be helpful
 
I think people were helpful for you on this chatroom before in this topic. But come on, it's really disturbing the flow of ontopic conversation, and that's not fun.
 
2:02 AM
@wilhelmtell: want to avoid "on-topic" vs "off-topic" in this room — we're users of c++, and almost anything barely programming or c++ related should be fine, as long as not abusive, plays by common sense rules, etc.
 
@RogerPate for lack of a better name. Sorry. It's annoying to be distracting by people bursting in with UML talks and Schtroumpf talks and whatnot.
 
@wilhelmtell Are you saying @RogerPate's name is lacking and he needs a better one? ;-)
 
I probably do, bug report filed with my parents
 
@JamesMcNellis lol no. Oh man I dug myself into a hole here.
 
I really dislike that you can't click reply to a specific message and easily include @user: (i.e. colon); this ain't twitter
@tina: uml should be on-topic on SO, why not ask a question?
 
2:07 AM
I've never used Twitter; I have a hard time writing sentences short enough to fit into a tweet.
 
same
it's in my SO profile though, because I have found it useful for quick messages to specific people
and if you follow the right people, entertaining too
@tina: I think it really would help you to write this as an SO question (even if you don't end up posting it)
but if you do post it, make sure to provide the link here so anyone interested can read it
yes, when you post a question on SO, there is a link to the question
 
@RogerPate If you follow the right people you can get some insight into what goes down at WG21 meetings.
 
hah, that's so disappointing, scrolled past it earlier (I already follow him)
 
2:22 AM
One of my favorites was from earlier this year during the Pittsburgh meeting: Daveed Vandevoorde posted this followed the next day by this.
 
Holy pimples of Batman, I've been living in a cave. Added to my Twitter roster kthx
 
s/e//
surely someone already has a C++ list on twitter that would be worth following
 
2:43 AM
@RogerPate Ha ha, I just got that.
That actually describes Batman rather well. He is known externally only as Batman, but internally, he's actually Bruce Wayne. Very opaque of him.
 
at least someone gets my jokes :)
so, there's lots of c++ lists, but apparently both twitter list-creation is broken for me and chrome crashes with 30 SO, 20 twitter, and 20 other tabs open
you watch what you say so much less when there's easy editing — I don't know if this is a good thing
 
I would hold my tongue a lot more in comments if I couldn't come back and delete them any time later.
 
3:20 AM
Twitter lists are fundamentally broken.
A Twitter account is rarely about C++. It's a tweet that is about C++.
 
A twitter list of C++ committee members would be useful and fun though.
Well, useful to someone; I don't even have a Twitter account.
 
Twitter is fundamentally broken
but we still try to use it ><
 
In another story: I rarely buy the argument of compile-time for pimpls. In C++ I usually buy compile-time information for compile-time speed; it would take a LOT of compile-time performance for VERY LITTLE compile-time information to trade the other way around.
 
am I wrong here? stackoverflow.com/q/4170238/54262 he's been doing this several times
 
Really, POPFile should be used in so many places on the web. It's a pity it's effectively dead.
 
3:25 AM
@wilhelmtell: I see it used more often for hiding code in a compiled (and then distributed) library
also don't buy the long compile-time argument
 
@RogerPate Same here.
 
@RogerPate it's good for hiding when the header changes often. But as soon as it stabilizes I think the pimpl should be eliminated, to gain back the runtime performance.
Well, at least if the runtime performance difference makes a difference.
Yes, that POPFile. It was email, but the idea of learning algorithms is very useful in all sorts of places. It could be useful on Stackoverflow too. If I mark a bunch of question as interesting the website should start to predict what I might like. It's not uncommon for POPFile to have 95% success rate with like 8 buckets. In StackOverflow you can have three buckes: interesting, boring, and "mmm...". You can get a lot more than 95% with three buckets.
 
@wilhelmtell I've never even bought that argument... if the header is that frequently edited, chances are it's a pretty new header file and not a lot depends on it yet (unless you're doing a big refactoring)
 
if it's edited often, surely the pimpl facade has to be synchronized often
@wilhelmtell at one point msft had bayesian filtering for help files patented :P
 
3:35 AM
I think I read somewhere, maybe from Sutter, that it's a question of ratio between the header changing and objects thereof used. If the ratio is high then use a pimple; if it's low don't. And naturally, one would expect in most cases the ratio to be very low.
 
4:09 AM
It's a shame he couldn't summarize the restrictions in 140 characters...
 
yeah, 140 is just ridididiculous
but as a mass-blog, it has been easier for me to post all sorts of random crap on twitter without thinking I'm wasting someone's time or worrying too much about editing
 
I usually just shoehorn my rants into Stack Overflow comments.
But maybe I'll try tweeting.
 
haha, I've been doing that too — love the expanded 600 char comments
 
But, where's the link?
 
What link?
 
4:16 AM
For the implicit move ctor
I read about the debate, never about any decision.
 
there is no link, he couldn't fit it in! probably there's nothing public, just a discussion in the committee meeting
 
The post-meeting mailing won't come out for another two or three weeks.
He's the WG21 secretary, so he's in the know.
 
I'm familiar with the pros and cons. I just know they debate it still.
 
Either that or he's making shit up to screw with people like us :-P
 
I mean I'm not familiar with the pros and cons.
Gah.
I really should be more up to date with the next standard. I feel clueless, absolutely and utterly clueless. :-S
 
4:19 AM
@wilhelmtell: There are two papers on the WG21 papers page from the latest mailing: one by Abrahams ("Implicit Move Must Go") and Stroustrup ("To Move or Not To Move").
 
@wilhelmtell lol. I feel the same.
 
I have an intermediate knowledge of C++ but still I don't have a good command over templates. Why the hell are C++ templates so complex?
 
(The starred post blocks are too short)
@ShekharGupta Because they are extraordinarily powerful and useful, far more so than generics in other common languages (like C# or Java).
 
ah #wg21 looks to be a good tag to keep on the radar
 
4:23 AM
Basic template usage is pretty straightforward (generalizing a function or classes on a type, for example), but you can do far more than just that.
 
looks like sdt dominates it though...
 
@JamesMcNellis yes but nobody likes making his code more complex
 
@ShekharGupta Large software projects are complex. Well-written generic components can help move the complexity out of application code and into libraries.
 
One thing I haven't explore yet is meta-templates
as in, templates of templates.
 
learning c++ templates is really difficult but I have seen a few guys at SO who are really good at it. One of them is @JamesMcNellis
 
4:27 AM
I don't know what it's useful for other than tripling your salary and declaring you a master enlightened programmer. But I suppose that makes it worth studying.
@ShekharGupta to reiterate, the basics of generic programming is extremely simple, imho.
 
@ShekharGupta I was going to say "people like Johannes 'The Walking C++ Standard' Schaub," but...
 
Ooh. So much love here. I'm touched.
LOL yeah litb is arguably the tag's king.
 
@JamesMcNellis yes he too. It seems he has memorized the C++ standard.
 
@wilhelmtell I think that's a fair statement. (ooh, I'm glad I looked just now... 19 more +1s and I'll have another tag badge!)
 
@JamesMcNellis OMG he is far ahead with a total score of 1201. you are at second with 381. huge difference :O
 
4:33 AM
@ShekharGupta Yeah, well, I don't have clause 14 completely memorized. I'm pretty sure he does.
 
you guys completely missed out on all the fun litb, I, and others used to have quoting the standard on IRC :)
litb only got SO rep because he abandoned us
 
why does quoting the Standard generate so much rep?
 
it's the combination of that and being right
 
2
A: Don't forget to mention.... SQL injection!

James McNellisIf you are answering [c++] questions, referencing the "c++ standard" is worth a lot: MentionsStandard RepGainPerPost 0 109 1 222

 
standardese is hard to understand, many people appreciate breaking it down for them
 
4:36 AM
I think litb's comment to that is pretty true too, though: "People guess all day long about some behavior, and just include a couple of random C++ quotations to look serious."
 
however — I've started (over the past year) to dislike quoting it more and more, exactly because people find it hard and it is taken as gospel even when confusing or contradictory
I won't hesitate to quote it to James, for example, but on the average SO question I'll avoid it
 
@JamesMcNellis yes his comment is very true.
 
Recently I've only been citing it if the questioner cites it or asks for a citation or if there's a really clear quote that explains something.
 
@RogerPate I don't know about that. I personally respect quoting the standard and being clear about it. So, if there's a contradiction or ambiguity just say it, and that's fine.
 
@RogerPate Like this question where there were three close but not quite correct answers, two of which cited the standard but missed a very important sentence.
 
4:38 AM
@JamesMcNellis yeah, that's a good indication
@wilhelmtell: it's often not clear from a single passage there is one (i.e. it's elsewhere), but I forgot to list that the standard leaves many things unspecified, underspecified, and implementation specified — many things which are important or required
 
I dont like when people quote from the C++0x draft (calling it the latest C++ Standard). :S
 
e.g. does <algorithm> use std::swap through a using declaration, qualified call, or neither?
heh, I used swap before reading the link, I swear :)
 
In C++0x it's allowed to use ADL to find a swap. I think we had this discussion in comments somewhere on SO.
 
it's been covered lots of places, but I was speaking about 03; haven't even looked at 0x for that yet
well, and it's rather obviated by move semantics
 
Shouldn't the next standard be out this year? i mean they dropped concepts, surely this makes things easier?
 
4:45 AM
@RogerPate True.
 
The section on Algorithms only specifies complexity in terms of swap operations, not how swap is called (I just searched the C++98 PDF).
 
@wilhelmtell: even if it was ready today, the voting process pushes it to next year
 
@wilhelmtell Last I heard, the plan was to produce the FDIS (Final Draft International Standard) early in 2011. I don't know how long it takes to vote on it, but my guess is about a year.
 
right now, I expect it to be ratified late next year or early after that
yup, at least you got FDIS right
 
also, the committee saying 'it will be ready when it will be ready' makes me feel so much better. i myself at work have hard times estimating time sometimes, and managers look at me as if something's wrong with me. take a look at the giants in the ansi comittee. think something's wrong with them too?
 
4:47 AM
people will be using that as the standard once it goes to voting; I think it's a foregone conclusion it will be ratified
 
@RogerPate Yeah, that's what I said! (I totally didn't just edit my post to correct it...)
 
@wilhelmtell are you a huge committee with competing interests that meets a handful of times a year, while carrying on a completely separate full-time job? :P
2
 
correct me if i'm wrong, apart from lambda and move sematics everything else is reasonably emulated with boost.
well maybe atomic too.
 
you are wrong :)
 
@wilhelmtell No. The concurrency memory model is hugely important (I'd argue it's the most important change coming in C++0x).
 
4:49 AM
yeah, atomic.
 
Hm, I think simple things like being able to write u"An UTF-16 encoded string" are important. Unfortunately not supported by Visual C++ 10.0
 
I can't wait for variadic templates.
 
Or should that be uppercase U? Whatever.
 
HOLY MOTHER OF JACK 2001 I'm among the top template answerers?! that's a first! </proud>
 
Reminds me, Boost does a nice job of emulating variadic macros in C++98. E.g. used in Parameters lib. And that's another thing I miss in Boost: that the things used internally, evidently necessary for creating Boost libs, don't seem to be documented and exposed for Boost users.
 
4:54 AM
@wilhelmtell i dont quite understand what you mean by "HOLY MOTHER OF JACK 2001".
 
they're multiplying
and some poor sap upvoted that
 
I investigated the tina mystery, and I think this is part of the code she/he is asking about all the time. it's really really ugly!
 
I really wanted to be kind and helpful, but her (his) responses to people's suggestion to go read a book really knocked me off. Total turnoff.
 
@wilhelmtell I just kind of tune out as soon as UML gets mentioned.
 
@JamesMcNellis truth. i don't like handwaving. not in airplanes and no elsewhere.
 
5:04 AM
@JamesMcNellis (I tried saying that earlier...)
 
@wilhelmtell You don't need an airplane if you wave your hands (and arms) fast enough!
 
ahaha :-P
 
imagine a link to the spinning-to-slow-down-time xkcd comic here
 
Ah. The delight of deletion. I wish I could do that in real life too. :(
2
 
@wilhelmtell good one.
 
5:08 AM
I post tons of witty comments on Stack Overflow then go back a few minutes later because they were really not witty at all.
 
@JamesMcNellis stackoverflow needs a buffer-zone of a minute or so before stuff is published. just so deletion truly is deletion if it's early enough.
alas answers within seconds is part of the site's pride.
 
hey who is anon? His rep is 2612 only but he is at the top of the all time list. How?
 
Neil Butterworth.
 
that is Neil Butterworth, search for his name on SO.meta; his reputation was reset when he left, due to database errors deleting a user with as many contributions as he has; he left Stack Overflow a few months ago, but was one of the top contributors in C++
 
well i slowed down on answering. because everytime i start answering some q and try to dot the i's and cross the t's, up pops messages that new answers have been posted. then i think maybe i'm just repeating stuff already said
 
5:12 AM
ohkk.
 
@JamesMcNellis: see, I'd get you back for FDIS
 
@AlfPSteinbach faster gun in the west syndrome. Joel rightly said before you need to choose you tactic: speed or quality. Choose one.
 
@RogerPate :-D Yeah, you did, lol
 
get both speed and quality: sacrifice correctness
 
@wilhelmtell I don't see why it can't be both... sometimes I'll post a brief, to the point answer then edit it to completion within the five minute edit window.
 
5:13 AM
:)
 
(then edit within 5 minutes)
honestly, posting the first answer only matters for Enlightened (and it's a mistake for that tag, IMNSHO)
 
@JamesMcNellis usually it can't be both. Brief doesn't mean fast. For a quality answer you usually need to think, and that takes time.
 
beyond that single silver badge, posting quickly (so your answer gets seen by people seeing the question) is all that matters
@wilhelmtell: oh, you want to think? that's not how you get rep!
 
Quality often wins out in the end anyway [good example].
 
@RogerPate true. You get rep by joining the C# bandwagon or by being funny. Both of which are oxymorons if you're a C++ developer.
 
5:16 AM
@James: just forget links and brackets; Chat/Comment-Letdown syntax has problems with them (the posts version works)
 
letdown lol
 
@RogerPate I gave up.
 
posts meaning Qs/As
@Alf: look for necromancer candidates; answering those can actually be rewarding, plus there's the new revival badge: stackoverflow.com/…
good ones are hard to find, however
related:
7
Q: Necrophiliacs: bring dead, unanswered questions back to life

GnomeI think many don't even know Necromancer exists. Could an easily accessible UI tab be provided to highlight two month old questions with no answers and a score >= 0? This would both enable people to find them and encourage answering to get a shiny silver badge. Currently you have to craft a sp...

 
@Roger: I wonder, if I answered all those with RTFM... ;-)
 
oh no
 
5:25 AM
@AlfPSteinbach I think you have a friend here.
 
lol :-P
 
ok, shoot
 
hey why don't I see good C++ programmers from India at SO?
almost everyone is either from Europe or US.
 
@Shekhar how would you tell the good ones apart from the others? (hint: many of the good ones blend in because they're good, and you don't even think to check their profile)
 
5:28 AM
@tina it's ok, just continue
 
is it because in India people start programming very late as compared to you guys?

I often see decent Indian programmers at local communities but on SO I dont see anyone. :(
 
@ShekharGupta: no, I'm saying this is a fallacy; like "the phone always rings when you're in the shower" — it doesn't always ring then, but you don't notice that, instead you notice every single damn time it rings when you're in the shower
 
@roger streetlights only go on or off when you're watching, it's opposite of kettle phenomenon. i think.
 
yeah.
 
@tina i don't know, really.
 
5:34 AM
@ShekharGupta: imagine an Indian programmer who has spoken english for 10 years and programmed for 10, and lets call this guy (hey, look at that, another fallacy: must be a guy) good; would you think to check his profile? or would you assume he's USian or British?
@ShekharGupta: english is generally the language of programmers, like german is a major language for particular sciences, and so on
 
@tina general principle is that uml and other kinds of modeling helps you (or the reader) to understand thing. so that's the criterion i'd use. do what makes sense.
 
@RogerPate I would think of checking his profile. :P
@tina why don't you post it as a question at SO?
 
guys, don't get me started on TI 57 calculator programming, with all of 50 steps. or the Tandberg EC10 computer (8080 based, with only uppercase keyboard)
 
:-)
 
@AlfPSteinbach My first programming was on a TI calculator! :-D (but mine was a TI-82)
@tina No, it's really better for you to ask a question on Stack Overflow. That way you can formulate your question and explain exactly what you are trying to solve. There are a lot more people on Stack Overflow itself that can answer your question than there are in this chat room.
 
5:38 AM
@tina this is a chat room and it is not at all meant for solving problems. try SO or solve it on your own.
@RogerPate yes right. But as compared to you guys Indians generally start programming very late(average age 16-17). You guys start it pretty early(average age 10) :P.
 
@Shekhar Unless you count playing with Legos as programming, I did not start programming at age 10.
Though I do think I learned practically all of my engineering skills from Legos.
 
I saw a guy who was just 14 years old but was a decent programmer. How I envy him! :(
 
i didn't have access to computing equipment (said calculator and 8080 computer) until 17 or 18 or something. there was not much of it northern norway. mostly just fishing boats
 
age 10... 4th grade? yeah, I was programming
 
@JamesMcNellis that is why I said average age.
 
5:43 AM
Oh so now I'm below average. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
 
there's a nice emacs anecdote about a programmer submitting bug reports at age 13 (and this was back in the 80s), doing a superb job, and blowing away the (professional) programmers working on it
@James: half the people you know are below average!
 
@JamesMcNellis No! :P
 
@Shekhar I've not heard anything about india in that regard
 
Indians usually start serious programming when they enter some technical institutes (average age 16-17). I am an Indian btw. :P
 
Well, speaking of below average, I have below average compiler-writing skills so I'm going to go spend some time reading my newly obtained copy of Parsing Techniques.
 
5:47 AM
i wonder how many here have done the cannibals and nuns puzzle when they (you) were learning to program
 
I would prefer chess. :-)
@tina : Why? We are not your slaves. :-P
 
@JamesMcNellis is that the dragon book? it's been so long...
 
@RogerPate I think he was talking about this book.
 
ah, 1st ed. of that is available online, iirc
 

« first day (28 days earlier)      last day (4906 days later) »