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12:51 AM
@GrahamChiu Isn't that xenograte similar to what Maxim wrote? Isn't liquid.r dataflow programming of that sort
Ran rebol on my phone! Exciting times
@GrahamChiu I would argue it is, but having tried to learn it about 5 years ago, it is still over my head
 
1:13 AM
Max's liquid uses a single process from memory
 
1:54 AM
noted!
 
2:51 AM
@onetom did you show something that you did for iOS in rebol?
 
3:09 AM
@BrianH how was the conference? Do we get the governance issues sorted?
 
3:32 AM
Now we need a press conference
 
@kealist Perhaps everyone is under NDA?
 
Open source NDA!
 
@kealist Yep
BTW, we still need clarification as to why get-facet area-face 'text-edit doesn't work!
 
You mean why it doesn't change based on text input?
 
@kealist Yes
so get-face area-face should be a short cut for get-facet area-face 'text-edit
 
3:47 AM
I was trying to think of a reason why initialized text should be stored
I think it's just not clear when you are getting data from TEXT-TABLE whether you want a cell, a row, a column or the whole data block
 
@kealist currently you get the x y coordinates if using a mouse click
if the table data is treated as a 1 -based array
 
@GrahamChiu, according to Cyphre, it's best for app devs to avoid get-facet, but getting the data from that particular cell required filter-value: first pick get-facet face 'table-data arg/y
 
@kealist I don't think he was saying that. He said you need to avoid learning the guts as was required in VID and use accessors like get-facet
 
let me re-read his comments
 
@kealist Or did I misread his comments :)
 
3:55 AM
"sure, the get-facet is not a 'public api'..it shouldn't be used by application code
get-facet function is for style programmer
Why it shouldn't be used by app programmer? Because it is used to access internal values (facets) of the style (ie. direct access)" --Cyphre
 
I'm not sure he's right. I'll have to read Carl's docs again.
the problem is that they have not followed a style guide consistently so that get-face on a text-table is inconsistent.
get-face .. which face? a text-table is a compound style of many faces
 
in my mind, it would be nice if if you could call get-face/field face 'row OR get-face/field face 'cell OR get-face/field face 'table
I get a little mixed up about what docs to read
 
Unfortunately the docs are everywhere now
I could give you the long story or the short story :)
 
He did say that was his POV of how things should work
I think it's best to see what these governance talks turned up
don't need any stories
:)
 
Until the R3gui code is in a public repo we're stuck with these inconsistencies
 
4:04 AM
Change of topic. So is encapping on R3 public knowledge?
I was trying to search, but couldn't find much info about that
 
@kealist trade secret it seems
 
I was hoping to get to play with some encapped R3 on android
 
Best to ask Andreas ... he probably has a good idea.
 
I am liking stackoverflow because I can document my questions publicly on record and they show up at the top of google searches
@GrahamChiu Thanks for the suggestion
Going to analyze the text-table style a bit more in detail, 1000 lines of code
 
4:25 AM
Hmmm, I feel like I'm going crazy, All the testing I was doing with text-table before is giving me different results now. Was the update to R3-GUI.R also R3-GUI.R3? If not, I was just making typos before :)
Night all
 
4:42 AM
@kealist load-gui should get you the latest version
@rgchris this question has been re-opened so would you put your answer there. Thanks
 
4:53 AM
Conference officially over, some good signs, hoping to push through the agenda points...
 
5:36 AM
posted on July 15, 2013 by WayneTsui

[Comment] I have put the code in this place: https://gist.github.com/WayneTsui/5997656

 
 
2 hours later…
7:11 AM
@earl hope Wayne's code helps sort out this #9910 issue
 
@GrahamChiu Not so sure, on first glance. "Open 20 terminals and let them run for an hour or more" doesn't seem like a very easy reproduction ...
 
@earl the code looks straight forward which is a problem :(
We know it's not in prot-http since I see this error in my own http code
 
@GrahamChiu Maybe you can succeed in building a somewhat simple reproduction with your own HTTP code?
 
my code can run for several hours before it crashes
@Rebolek says he could do it in seconds but he hasn't given us that code
 
Then we must make it crash faster :)
 
7:28 AM
so I need to upgrade my internet to faster speed
 
Well, I asked Bolek on AltME for the reproduction as well.
From what I can see, the cause would be an invalid port object.
 
can we put some debugging code in the C source?
the issue is in the tcp stack
 
Yes. Question is if it's user code which corrupts the port object, or system code.
I'll see if I can add some helpful debugging code.
 
maybe something to inspect the corrupted event instead of just throwing this #9910 error
 
What kind of build would you need?
Linux+HTTPS?
Plain mainline Windows is fine?
 
7:37 AM
windows
yes
 
Ok
 
since when could you provide https?
 
@earl Heya...things seemed to go pretty well for the ForkAgenda here... we may be seeing some changes soon. :-)
 
@HostileFork Good to hear :)
@GrahamChiu Just asking.
 
@HostileFork All the worst scenarios came to pass!
@earl Ok. It's in my rebol stack overflow chat client I see this
I split it into core and view code, and the bug is in the core code
 
7:39 AM
Ok
 
ie. I run 2 processes
@HostileFork We had the Trello recode stuff .. and it looks like all the preparation didn't happen or something?
It would be good to have a post mortem, document it for the next conference
The issue is that we are making repeated tcp requests (high frequency ) which is why rebolbot doesn't see this issue
 
@GrahamChiu Some A/V chaos, and I think the post-mortem is "next time, listen to those who suggest keeping it simple."
Good thing I brought all my stuff.
 
@GrahamChiu Not sure I understand this. RebolBot doesn't see this issue because she makes too little or too many requests?
 
@HostileFork Difficult for us on the other side of the world to see what the problem was ..
@earl Because she doesn't make repeated requests at high frequency. Just every 5 seconds or whatever
Just a guess
 
Good guess, imo.
 
7:44 AM
I'm guessing the redis test code was also at high frequency
 
So maybe it's easy to reproduce if I just make a million HTTP requests against some fast, local server ...
 
@earl could try :)
@HostileFork We've never had a conference with good streaming
 
Ok, a few ten-thousand requests with small replies don't cause the error quickly.
@GrahamChiu Happen to know if anyone has seen this issue on any other platform except Windows?
 
@earl I don't know what the others are using
 
@GrahamChiu Did you ever see this happening in combination with other errors, or was it always #9910 alone?
 
7:52 AM
@earl I think I've seen other errors too but 99% of them are #9910
I normally post them here as screenshots :)
 
Ok, got to run for now. First thing we need is a better/quicker reproduction.
 
@GrahamChiu The real-time streaming I thought of as an interesting experiment, and a bonus, but I do feel that if we had more focus on getting good solid recordings of the talks for editing afterward it would have been a better way to invest in time. But Bo wanted to experiment with a real-world scenario of his cameras so its not exactly cut and dry there.
While it would be nice to have some good video edits of the talks available, the real outcomes here are to set precedent and empower the community more to help solve some of the "single point of failure" issues...
 
@GrahamChiu If you see someone reporting this crash on Linux/OSX, be sure to take note :)
 
@GrahamChiu I'm running a quick test on windows against a local cheyenne. Seems to be effective at filling up the access log :-)
 
oh well, this is not going to be easy
 
8:00 AM
posted on July 15, 2013 by abolka

[Comment] For reference: - 1401 is "not enough memory" - 1405 is "problem with IO" - 1412 is "event queue overflow" - 9910 is caused by an invalid port! object

 
No luck reproducing the issue with the simple read case running for 5 minutes with a 0.001 sec wait in the loop. TTYL
 
I've started another run to see how long it takes to see this error in windows and then I'll run it on a linux vm
time for start is 20:08
 
8:24 AM
@HostileFork what's your plan on editing the videos? Do you have them? Or does Bo have them?
 
8:39 AM
No error code on this one.
Took about 20 mins
restarted at 20:40
Ok, another 9910 error at 20:45 .. so now to try on linux
started 20:50 on linux
 
9:09 AM
after 18 mins on Linux I got this error
** Access error: cannot open: tcp://chat.stackoverflow.com:80 reason: -12
** Where: open mini-http forever catch either either -apply- do
** Near: open port
some odd stuff ...
>> pwd
== %/home/ec2-user/

>> ls
Not found:
>>
>> print rebol/version
2.101.0.4.4
>> list-dir
Not found:
very odd
started another run on linux at 9:14 pm
drat ..lost connection so restarted at 9:22 pm
@earl how would this error be reported in linux?
 
9:52 AM
Got this -12 error on linux again
LS stops working again
 
 
1 hour later…
11:07 AM
@GrahamChiu With an error message on the console.
 
 
1 hour later…
12:35 PM
@GrahamChiu I only have some screen captures and some audio, Max has to do some kind of download out of the video camera. I'll try and get the files and do what I can when I can, but I am traveling with a reduced setup. I should still be able to do some editing on the go but not going to make promises. (I wasn't supposed to have to do anything, remember? :P)
 
1:34 PM
Back from music festival. Although I tried, it was really difficult to watch the chat on a cell phone. Mostly an info about technical problems instead the discussed topics covered :-(
Will look forward for the videos ... as for small routers problems - those should be avoided. I really wonder, why ppl don't use cheap but fantastci Mikrotik platform, where everything is configurable, has a shaping, etc. What I am even more surprised about, that in such a big town, there is some hotel/venue, with rather weak internet connection?
 
Hello
 
2:26 PM
@jozefg Hello jozefg
 
Hello @jozefg. Many of us are at a conference in Montreal right now without data connections...because roaming is X-pensive!
 
@HostileFork Don't leave Montréal without the videos.
 
@rebolbot
Code: ["hello @jozefg, do you know any Rebol"]
Append code [print]
Reverse code
Do code
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> Code: ["hello @jozefg, do you know any Rebol"] Append code [print] Reverse code Do code
hello @jozefg, do you know any Rebol
 
@peterwawood I will do the best I can.
 
2:31 PM
@HostileFork Sadly no, I'm poking at the docs now though
 
@HostileFork I was only able to catch a little of the streamed video and can't wait to be able to view all the sessions. Just worried there could be a delay if you have to wait for the videos to be mailed to you.
 
@jozefg one outcome of the conference is that the community will be taking over the documentation soon...so the sites should get much better rapidly!
 
Yay :D
What's this conference?
 
I'm typing on a cellphone at the moment so perhaps @peterwawood can pitch you with parse or the built in data types or some other cool thing our RebolBot can demo
 
Fair enough :)
 
2:41 PM
It's the first conference since Rebol became open source...after 18 years...so there's a lot to work out. It has been rather busy and involves lots of shuffling as most of us know little about Montreal and have been trying to spend our time here on the cheap :)
 
@GrahamChiu for the most part, it seems so. We need to see how the follow-through goes, but the plan is good.
 
 
1 hour later…
4:00 PM
@HostileFork who's still staying in Montreal to continue working?
I told eFishAntSea about some of the goings on of REBOL recently, so I think he may be making a comeback to the community somewhat
 
4:19 PM
Was anyone here present during the Doc's presentation? I am curious, what are Carl's thoughts towards Red?
 
@pekr Carl expressed some skepticism about Red's approach and how Red/system was designed, and seemed to think that the semantics of Rebol 3 were preferable and he'd done things that way for a reason in his redesign for Rebol 3. His answer for how he would do Rebol again if he could start again was that he already had done it over and that was Rebol 3.
 
OK, thanks. For average user, R/S is easier to use than R3 C level extensions, so unless kind of improved R2/DLL interface appears as an extension for R3, it might be a no-go for some users ...
 
However, his feelings on how to achieve the necessary step of evolving Rebol into a compiled system and getting performance and parallelism was that his point of view on it wasn't that relevant because it would really come down to whoever sat down and actually wrote it, and in this case that's @dockimbel, so he said that was great
 
That does not make sense to me ....
Red paralelism and compilation etc. are surely different, than introducing any such features to the R3 architecture, no?
So, as Carl does not favor Red, you might stop to referring to it as a Rebol 4 :-)
 
He also saw it to be important that Rebol and Red be LOAD compatible, and that working toward that goal was worthwhile. We discussed for instance a hex literal notation for integers. @DocKimbel seemed a bit warmer to working it out after the progress that appears to be about to happen.
 
4:36 PM
I will follow any project, that is vital. Even after os-ing R3, it was still not progressing well, last few weeks my feeling is, that it finally started to take off in a better manner ...
 
Well, I guess Ive given in to saying no one should really consider it yet at a time to say anything all that definitive about Red...maybe practice will change minds...
@kealist @DocKimbel and Carl went to do tourism, but @onetom, @rgchris, @moliad and I are at coginnov today to try looking at some stuff...
 
I hopy you guys really had a good time! Meeting one in person always changes the way we perceive ppl ...
 
@pekr Yes, it will help with achieving understandings for sure...
 
4:55 PM
0
A: Rebol3 - How do you extract all the GUI styles with descriptions in Rebol3 after load-gui is evaluated?

kealistfrom @rgchris, an initial idea: REBOL [] load-gui do http://reb4.me/r3/rsp style-info: collect [ foreach [name style] body-of guie/styles [ keep form name keep style/about ] ] styles-list: render-each [name about] style-info {<h1><%== name %></h1>^/<p><%== about %></p>^/} w...

 
5:42 PM
:) well...
1, how did you know about that?
2, not really. it was just a deceptive magic trick.
we did a mind experiment w one of my hungarian [Andras](https://github.com/sullerandras) friend
How would the iOS home screen (dashboard app) would look like if iOS could run Rebol?
how complicated and big (or rather small would it be) to implement a such an app?
many people who saw that demonstration thought i wrote an ARM simulator in Rebol to run iOS...
but if Rebol could run on iOS, then the phone simulator for development could just be the desktop version of Rebol with some peripherals mocked, like the motion sensor, location, screen, sound, net...
im planning to publish the source again, but while we are still in Montreal w chris, fork, doc and max, we want to do things 1st which are better to do together.
 
5:58 PM
@kealist Have him come in here too!
 
room topic changed to [Rebol and Red]: Rebol 3 *is Rebol rebooted! rebolsource.net/go/chat-faq [dialect] [interpreter] [json] [lisp] [rebol] [rebol3]*
 
@rgchris I'll try, but he's not much of a forum person. May be too set on Altme
 
@kealist Has he tried StackOverflow?
 
@rgchris No, but I'll give him a rundown tonight if I have a chance
 
@kealist Cool, and say Hi!
Oh, and hi!
 
6:09 PM
@rgchris Will do, and Hi!
 
@kealist Did you take a break from Rebol or have you just been quiet?
(or on AltMe too :)
 
@rgchris I took a break for a few years. I did some R (stats) programming in the last year, but I teach ESL at a university here (Kansas), so not too much time to code these days. Getting a little restless though and wanting to get back into programming
 
@kealist Good stuff. Good timing too...
 
@rgchris if there hadn't been a conference this weekend, I probably would have taken a brief look at rebol status last week and moved on
 
@kealist Btw, there's a few green t-shirts around here this weekend—wearing mine today...
(under my soccer shirt)
 
6:18 PM
@hostilefork see if you can get the video before you leave!
 
@rgchris I'm afraid I'm a little confused by the tshirt reference
was that something to do w/ '04?
 
Ah yes! I never got one :(
 
@GrahamChiu He seems a little resigned at the moment. Will try to cheer him on a little...
@kealist That's tragic.
 
Cheer = beer
 
6:22 PM
@rgchris agreed. Need some new ones. You gonna do it?
 
@GrahamChiu That's a prerequisite...
@kealist Hmm, I could do...
 
@rgchris guess the new logo needs to be implemented full-scale
 
@kealist Could be. I have something that might work...
 
@rgchris sweet. What have you been up to these past years? Are you in PA or something like that? Been to Arran recently?
 
@kealist I am (usually) in Philadelphia playing or refereeing soccer (amongst other things). Was on Arran in March under unusual circumstances.
 
7:19 PM
@SoleSoul Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 61 so chat away!
 
Hi. I'm new to the world of Rebol, and I want to see some of it. Would it be a right decision to start with Rebol 2? Would you suggest otherwise?
 
@SoleSoul Interested in Haskell, eh? Well, Rebol is another language for those off the beaten path. :-)
@SoleSoul My opinion is to pretend Rebol 2 doesn't exist, as it is not now (nor will it be) open sourced. Hence it is dead to me. :-)
 
@HostileFork Did you look up my activity on stackoverflow? :)
(single one)
 
@SoleSoul RebolBot did, above.
@RebolBot
print {"I'm written in Rebol 3," said {RebolBot}, "and it's the way to go... :-)"}
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> print {"I'm written in Rebol 3," said {RebolBot}, "and it's the way to go... :-)"}
"I'm written in Rebol 3," said {RebolBot}, "and it's the way to go... :-)"
 
7:27 PM
@HostileFork I've looked up some information about the languages and the only one which looks complete enough is REBOL 2. Am I wrong? What is the real state of Rebol 3? Does it have a future as a complete tool?
 
@SoleSoul Usually we're pretty good about just chatting about it here in the room, but right now we're in Montreal hacking on the community websites. :-)
 
I'm currently interested in the ideas, not the practical part.
 
@SoleSoul it's being used in commercial projects
@SoleSoul rebolbot does our stalking for us!
 
@GrahamChiu what drew me to Rebol was the simplicity of GUI programming in REBOL 2. Does Rebol 3 have it already or not yet?
 
@HostileFork Interesting. I already grabbed the rebol.net wiki and put it on githuh
@SoleSoul Yes, there's a gui in Rebol3 ( currently on windows, android and amiga ). The linux port is in progress
as is Osx where graphic primitives are now working.
 
7:30 PM
Rebol 3's GUI facilities are not complete and it's not entirely certain when it will be. If you are interested in more the language and philosophy, Rebol 3 is relatively complete. We have a few things that are taking some time to get into the mainline (such as TLS sockets for https, which is annoying not to have). It's written but just hasn't been open sourced by the company that made it.
 
Amiga before Linux? That's special :)
 
@SoleSoul Just the way open source works
 
It shows that there is passion here.
 
@SoleSoul If you want to start having some fun with Rebol, I think PARSE is a fun place to start learning a different way of applying the language value types.
 
@HostileFork He's familiar with Rebol2
 
7:31 PM
me? I'm not
I've only started. Currently reading REBOL 2's manual
 
@SoleSoul see, you know more about Rebol2 than 3 :)
 
I had a dream about a language where you could write logic in functional style, GUI in declarative style and tie it all up with classes. Then I found Rebol and it looks like my dream.
 
At present the GUI versions of Rebol3 are closed source :(
 
I want to be sure that I'm not going into a partial language. I don't currently care about speed, I prefer an established environment.
 
Closed in so much as the company that does them hasn't provided the source though expresses the intent to do so.
 
7:34 PM
The company? THE company?
 
@SoleSoul What's a partial language? One you're partial to ?
@SoleSoul No, not RT but Saphirion
 
@GrahamChiu one that I'll try to do something and then find out that it's being worked on and not possible yet.
 
Well, that depends on what you want to do does it not? Anyway, official status of Rebol3 is alpha.
 
@GrahamChiu I want to do: functional programming, web development and GUI. Nothing production. All for fun.
 
Then you can do that now.
 
7:37 PM
With 3?
 
@SoleSoul It does a lot of neat things; it's rather Lisp-y but because it has more types, including more than one block type, you can do some fun stuff.
 
@SoleSoul Yes, Rebol 3
 
Is the 'closed source' GUI free as in beer?
 
GUI is open source
 
@RebolBot
parse "cccababaa" [3 "c" (print "found three Cs!") some ["a" (print "found an A!") | "b" (print "found a B!")]]
 
7:38 PM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse "cccababaa" [3 "c" (print "found three Cs!") some ["a" (print "found an A!") | "b" (print "found a B!")]]
found three Cs!
found an A!
found a B!
found an A!
found a B!
found an A!
found an A!
== true
 
So, rebolbot here is written in Rebol 3
All the cgi on Rebol.com uses rebol3
 
@RebolBot
print length? quote (a + b)
 
I have a GUI stack overflow chat client written in Rebol3
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> print length? quote (a + b)
3
 
@RebolBot
probe second quote (a + b)
 
7:39 PM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> probe second quote (a + b)
+
== +
 
@RebolBot
copy/part to string! read hostilefork.com 80
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> copy/part to string! read hostilefork.com 80
== {<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.or}
 
Hmm. What happened?
 
So you two suggest Rebol 3 as an introduction to the world of Rebol. Is that correct?
 
@fergus Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Sadly you won't be able to talk to us at present. You need a few more reputation points on Stackoverflow to join these chat rooms. If you answer some questions, or ask some, we might be able to help by upvoting you. In the meantime, have a look at a Rebol introduction.
 
7:41 PM
@SoleSoul Yes, but you might need some help here in this channel
 
@SoleSoul Yes.
 
because the docs are in disarray
 
Yeah, that's why I started with 2. It has a wonderful "book" on the site.
 
@SoleSoul If you want a presentation I just gave this weekend with my opinion, here's one: E Rebolus Unum (PDF)
 
@SoleSoul it's a dead end though
 
7:42 PM
It teaches the concepts, not only the language itself.
 
Not being developed anymore
 
Closed source.
 
and the GUI .. well, we are rapidly forgetting it ! lol
So, here's my Rebol3 chat client that I started a couple of weeks ago https://github.com/gchiu/RSOChat
 
So no good manual for Rebol 3. How would I learn the concepts then?
 
@SoleSoul The concepts haven't really changed, there are just a few operational differences.
 
7:44 PM
the concepts are the same as rebol 2
 
Well, I don't know them
The all look familiar from other places but I need to get them all in the right place in my head.
 
Read the Rebol2 core docs but use rebol 3
 
This sounds like a good plan.
 
if something doesn't work as promised check with us
Don't look at the Rebol2 gui though
 
@GrahamChiu I can't run this chat client on Linux yet, right?
 
7:46 PM
it's totally different from the current Rebol 3 gui
 
(I'm on Archlinux)
 
@SoleSoul no, can't
but sounds like the gui should be here soon for linux
 
@GrahamChiu I can reboot to windows later.
About the GUI, the r2 GUI programming looked very interesting.
I hope 3 would be at least as interesting as the one in 2.
 
@SoleSoul the R3gui is more capable but just not finished yet
 
(I'm reading your GUI code)
@GrahamChiu The structure looks similar. Good.
 
7:50 PM
@SoleSoul evolution :)
 
@GrahamChiu do you have a screenshot of a r3 GUI application on Windows?
In 2 it looked... how can I phrase it? ... Unique.
 
@SoleSoul Got a video ...
 
I'd like to see it.
 
let me search this chat to find it
Haven't done much on it since then though
Trying to nail a tcp bug that was uncovered
 
watching
 
7:59 PM
@HostileFork we could have used Jing for the conference :(
@SoleSoul just grab a screenshot from there!
 
@GrahamChiu It looks nice. It's not native, but it's not pink and green either. I also like the fact that the code of creating the GUI is so short.
Someone on IRC pointed me towards AltMe world Rebol4
 
@SoleSoul "Talk to your kids about AltME. Before someone else does."
Don't use it!
 
@SoleSoul Who is this 'someone'???
 
Just say no. Trust me.
 
egp_ from #rebol@freenode.net
Why? What's that?
Is it archaic?
 
8:14 PM
@SoleSoul we are migrating from altme to here
keep everything open and not in a darknet
 
@GrahamChiu ah, ok.
 
Even Carl Sassenrath, Rebol's author uses this forum and not Altme now
even though he wrote Altme
 
I see that there is more than one r3 code repository. Why is that? Which one should I get the sources from?
 
the problem is that Carl has been somewhat occupied so mainline is not regularly maintained.
 
@SoleSoul We are attempting to get a few things done with that, like renaming rebol/r3 to rebol/rebol ... and making the default branch a development branch that moves more rapidly than the master. Then downloads.rebol.org will have the master branch builds by default, but offer a link to go to a page and get the development build.
 
8:17 PM
I haven't logged into AltME in around 3 months. Not deliberately ignoring it, it just was seriously inconvenient, for structural reasons that are inherent in how the client is implemented.
 
@BrianH Do you miss it?
 
For the moment, rebolsource/r3 is what you might think of as the development branch, and rebol/r3 is the slow-moving master. If you're just getting started, you likely won't notice any difference between them. The bugs and issues addressed are mostly esoteric.
 
@rgchris Are you at Coginov with Tamas?
 
@rgchris Yes and no. I miss the people on it, and I have definitely had occasions to miss the stored messages as a reference source, but I never liked the client itself. And SO chat does a lot of stuff that I was missing in AltME. AltME is also missing some limitations that would force people to shift certain kinds of discussions to more appropriate forums, something I was fighting against for years.
Plus, I'm not a fan of blue as a main color in GUIs. It stresses me out, I always try to avoid it. AltME forced me to work in a blue interface, the only one I had to use regularly. It's a personal thing but it was an annoyance for years.
 
8:32 PM
Are red and Rebol competing?
 
@DocKimbel Yes—you coming by?
Or still out seeing the sights?
 
@rgchris, I'm coming to Coginov now.
 
@SoleSoul complementary
 
@DocKimbel Excellent—we'll be here for a while. Long engagement over some slight semantic issues.
 
Are you guys working on the websites etc at Coginov ?
 
8:39 PM
@GrahamChiu Sort of.
 
@rgchris heh .. I was wondering if they were going to hire everyone which was why everyone was there!!
 
@GrahamChiu And then we all disappear from chat, etc :)
 
@rgchris but then I knew you were all on visitors permits :)
 
@GrahamChiu So we'd lead you to believe...
Nice offices though...
 
9:07 PM
@HostileFork Thanks for the slides. Good read. Gave me some insights on what's going on.
 
@SoleSoul It looks like most of the requests are going to be happening soon-ish, fingers are crossed...
 
@HostileFork The most important thing for me is the fact that I know that stuff happens. This beauty in not forgotten after all.
(Rebol)
 
@SoleSoul There's a lot going on right now, and we are sitting here rather excited about the idea of actually being able to improve the websites...
 
@pekr An R2-style ("/Library") DLL interface will appear for R3, I'm positively convinced of that. Imo, it's no a question of "if", but of "when".
 
Ok, I'm leaving to sleep now (after midnight). See you around. I believe I'm going to pay a few more visits to this room.
 
9:18 PM
@SoleSoul Please do. Cya soon.
 
@earl hopefully improved though. The old struct and routine models were lacking in some areas.
 
@BrianH Hopefully not completely 1:1, with all the shortcomings. But most likely in the general vein.
 
@earl agreed. It will be interesting to see how this would integrate with the extension model. Extensions are arguably much better than /Library, but even so there will be some situations where something like /Library would be more appropriate. I'm hoping for a compiler for extensions based on ideas from Red that would generate both the native code and the Rebol wrapper module from one source base. JIT would be even better, of course :)
I like the idea of Red, but for my purposes it would be more useful embedded in Rebol than it would be as a standalone toolset. I'm really looking forward to that model, hopefully soon.
Of course I don't do much embedded systems work, so maybe I'm not the target audience. Later when Red itself exists this may change, of course, I just don't need Red/System, for now.
 
9:43 PM
@earl who's doing that?
 
@GrahamChiu I don't know of anyone working on that at the moment.
 
After spending all day in the conference room plotting web sites, we're proud to present the fruit of our whole day's endeavours:
You can thank us however you wish.
 
where's the tail??
amd the hind legs?
 
We're not going to rip off @DT2
This is original art.
 
hehe
 
9:51 PM
@GrahamChiu we tried the tail but it looked like a dick...
 
such is art
 
Just think what we'll achieve if we have another conference...
 
a 3D version?
 
We're not Hollywood.
 
Shouldn't that balloon be red??
You do know that @brianH does not like Blue
 
9:54 PM
@GrahamChiu I keep telling them!!
 
@GrahamChiu It has become apparent.
 
guys, concensus concensus!
well, at least it's not a pie ...
 
@GrahamChiu We can get rid of the blue when the ? is answered :)
 
So our vision here is that we have a subdomain help.rebol.org, which is specifically there as the complement to the rebol help function. We can have very brief URLs and even support URL strings like http://help.rebol.org/bind? or http://help.rebol.org/&& or even http://help.rebol.org///
 
Sounds good to me.
 
9:58 PM
http://help.rebol.org/?
 
Yep.
 
Then, the main page for help.rebol.org could introduce the help function, as well as the purpose of the subdomain, and things like a screencast showing you how you could add your own help to functions in the function specification dialect.
 
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