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12:28 AM
@GrahamChiu I notice that the bot is not cleaning up the errors returned, or at least not enough. Either Where or Near is wrong.
Didn't we adjust that, back in the day? Does it need readjusting?
 
@BrianH I thought Graham had done something - maybe the changes were lost
 
@BrianH which errors? Got a link?
 
@RebolBot
probe money
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/script-no-value.html
>> probe money
*** ERROR
** Script error: money has no value
** Where:
** Near: try load/all join %/users/try-REBOL/data/ system/script/args...
 
In R3:
>> probe money
** Script error: money has no value
OK, let me try to generate a where
@RebolBot do do [probe money]
 
12:38 AM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/script-no-value.html
>> do [probe money]
*** ERROR
** Script error: money has no value
** Where: do
** Near: do [probe money]
 
See, that is what R3 returns. So it's only top-level errors that don't match.
Should be some simple conditional code.
Except for the *** ERROR line - that's not in the R3 output.
 
1:14 AM
Error handling for the do command is here github.com/gchiu/rebolbot/blob/master/commands/…
 
 
2 hours later…
3:11 AM
@onetom did you get my last post here?
 
4:00 AM
rgchris has made a change to the feeds posted into this room
 
4:18 AM
rgchris has stopped a feed from being posted into this room
 
4:33 AM
Hello again @liumengjiang ... have you had a chance to speak yet? :-)
@RebolBot who is liumengjiang
 
@HostileFork Sorry, I don't know anything about liumengjiang yet. But ...
 
But ... what? (Hm, I thought there was a last seen / last spoken in there. Maybe I'm thinking something else.)
 
if the bot can parse out the userid consistently, the next step is to ...
grab some details from the user profile and post it here.
I guess we have to accept that in any chat room, up to 90% of the people present will just stay in lurk mode
If they all participated, @moliad, @pierre and others will voice their concerns about not being able to keep up!
 
5:30 AM
rgchris has made a change to the feeds posted into this room
 
6:02 AM
@johnk have you updated the test bot to @Adrian's latest changes?
 
6:19 AM
@kaᵠ Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 3836 so chat away!
 
thanx botrebol
 
@RebolBot present
 
@rgchris rgchris GrahamChiu HostileFork Adrian Respectech earl johnk pekr ingo onetom
 
6:33 AM
@kaᵠ come back!
 
@GrahamChiu, @johnk - pushed some changes again. The order cache is working for me now.
 
@GrahamChiu Breaks the bot, then runs away!
 
@rgchris yeah ... :(
@Adrian ok, what was wrong?
@RebolBot present
 
@GrahamChiu GrahamChiu rgchris Adrian kaᵠ HostileFork Respectech earl johnk pekr ingo rebolek onetom
 
Hmm. Works now
 
6:34 AM
just some prefixing of message-no with `lib
 
Ah. I wondered about that.
The code looked good otherwise.
 
yeah
 
back
:)
 
@kaᵠ your unicode name broke our link
still need to fix it!
 
whych one
this one now
?
 
6:36 AM
the one that announces who comes into the room
 
@GrahamChiu I'll pull the changes on to the ec2 instance in the next few minutes (unless someone else has done that already?)
 
16 mins ago, by RebolBot
http://stackoverflow.com/users/731947/ka\u1D60
 
lol
wow
 
I know you like to decorate your nick with fancy glyphs!
 
actually ilike phi
but yes, tried to decorate more, then... wet back to the basics
:P
 
6:38 AM
oh well, it's a good test for our code
@rebolbot source who-is-online
 
who-is-online: make function! [[message-id
    /silent
    /local out page username userid len newbies addressees reputation rpage hi-rep-message err json-name
][
    addressees: copy ""
    len: length? visitors
    out: copy []
    newbies: copy []
    page: to string! read html-url
    parse page [
        some [
            thru "chat.sidebar.loadUser(" copy userid some id-rule thru "(" copy username [{"} thru {"}] ")"
            (trim/all username
                json-name: copy username
                username: load-json username
 
now the url should not use the json encoded version, but the JS escaped version??
Ok, I can see it's using the wrong form now
 
This part here:
speak ajoin [profile-url person/3 "/" replace/all person/1 "." "-"]
Should be person/2, not person/1.
Same on the next line.
 
so it should use the name that results from load-json ?
 
Yes, but probably need to url-encode it too...
 
6:45 AM
sigh ...
ok, let me try that.
 
Actually, no—ka's profile url doesn't have the last symbol!
So, hm.
 
class="signature user-292969"
there´s the usable url
 
Scrape it, don't try to make it :)
 
but it receives json not processed html right
 
in the icon bar it's json I think
@rebolbot who is kaᵠ?
 
6:50 AM
@GrahamChiu GrahamChiu kaᵠ rgchris johnk Adrian HostileFork Respectech earl pekr ingo rebolek onetom
@GrahamChiu I know this about kaᵠ and their local time is 7-Apr-2028/15:12:22
 
That goes to the right page!
 
wow .. living in the future!
 
Impressive. Any flying cars yet?
 
interesting...
where does it get local time again?
 
@kaᵠ when you saved your details, use a time offset
 
6:51 AM
ohh yea
 
save my details http://www.rebol.com +13:00
 
I seem to recall seeing ka using a slightly larger than usual offset :-)
 
like that ...
 
@johnk larger? :oO
 
guess rebolbot is going to have to check that time offsets are within 24 hours
 
6:54 AM
I pulled the changes, but something is still not right
 
@kaᵠ please leave this room, change your nick with more decorations, and come back again when you're prettier! lol
 
She's running in the test room, but is rather unresponsive
 
@johnk yeah .. I noticed
 
@GrahamChiu neah, gonna stick with just this phi one
@rgchris nope, but things went back in time and now engines run on steam again
 
@rebolbot boot @kaᵠ
 
6:56 AM
@GrahamChiu Can you elaborate on that?
 
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
i have already booted the latest and greatest operating system
 
have you considered kappa?
zeta?
delta?
 
yes, kappa but no..
 
Does SO Chat still poll feeds in the US wee hours?
 
SO uses UTC if that helps
 
6:59 AM
@rgchris international ...
 
Just asking, I added a feed 90mins ago...
Before it'd dump a whole bunch of posts within 20mins.
 
@rgchris what you trying to feed us?
 
Conference news feed.
 
@rgchris Is this to encourage late registrations?
 
Could be. All that and more...
 
7:19 AM
@johnk yeah, noticed that too - I thought the response time had been adjusted
I see that it hasn't though
 
so SO runs the feed scripts intermittently?
Of course rebolbot could do this faster :)
 
I'm sure—wonder if there's a way to do it in that onebox style?
 
have you tried posting a RSS feed here manually? Just one item?
 
Nope.
 
@RobertM.Münch any timetable to see the saphir changes on github?
 
7:55 AM
rebolbot has her altme account .. just need to setup the headless client so we can start importing the announce group into here
 
@GrahamChiu Speaking of RebolBot (which we do often) would you mind changing the stackapps icon to match the refined one in the profile?
 
@rebolbot "I'm famous"
 
ahh.. @Adrian set that up.
@HostileFork large icon location?
 
@GrahamChiu Oh. The profile is only 128x128. I forgot that thing I'd given you before was bigger. Want one the same size?
Oh, no wait, it's not. It just looked bigger. It's on RebolBot's profile
 
8:05 AM
@rgchris Thanks a lot for Apache-licensing!
 
@HostileFork Just trying the original icon ... or want me to use the bot specific icon?
 
@GrahamChiu 3-D looks cooler, go with it
 
Reminder to all .. who you have not voted on rebolbot .. please do so
@HostileFork yeah .. the bot specific icon is for an icon bar
 
8:24 AM
The text description is unsufficient and way too general!
 
I have so little physical junk, but so much digital junk. It is not good to have lots of terabyte drives
 
@earl any particular things we need to do to run altme headless on linux?
 
Why there is not example of CureCode output, or if we have Github one?
The help screen is also a total formatting mess
 
How can I search the chats list? I would like to live-filter it. So start typing and all message without a hit are hidden.
 
8:26 AM
@GrahamChiu We are still organizing the code base. We want to move away from make-make.r to cmake. IMO an absolut necessary step to have one clear build-system.
 
@RobertM.Münch They don't have a live search as per Google to do that (yet). There are some other things like getting an RSS feed for a search though, so once you have a search you like you can subscribe to it
 
@pekr what are you referring to? Context?
 
Hmm... I must say that I'm not that impressed with SOC regarding keeping track, finding things etc.
 
@RobertM.Münch What are you looking for? Searches work reasonably well in my experience.
 
Especially if you were away for a couple of days... no chance to get an idea what happend.
 
8:28 AM
@RobertM.Münch Yet, the majority of chat has moved from altme to here.
 
Rebol bot description
 
@RobertM.Münch Look at the starred messages in the sidebox for getting an idea what happened.
 
@RobertM.Münch The goal of the StackOverflow chat is different and more specialized than the wide array of services that AltME attempted to do. It is a water cooler chat and does that well. You can edit your messages for 2 minutes to correct typos. It is a public venue and thus builds some exposure for Rebol.
 
@pekr so you can write a better description? welcome to provide some edit suggestions for us .. afterall, you're the journalist!
 
It's a chat, not a forum, though. Much more ephemeral; the virtual equivalent to real-world cafe chat (or watercooler talk).
@GrahamChiu Start it once with X redirection to set up the (automatic) login. Subsequently, run it under Xvfb.
 
8:32 AM
@earl Ok, I guess @johnk knows what that means
 
@RobertM.Münch I think that the insularity and clinging to AltME to do all things became very blind to the fact of how much was being missed. For instance, complaining that StackOverflow chat doesn't do private messaging is kind of bizarre because there are much better tools e.g. Skype that have group private chats, text and voice/video, screen sharing... there are lots of straw man arguments against StackOverflow chat because it's not AltME.
 
@GrahamChiu Disable server clock checking. Enable "Auto-download all files without asking" (or disable downloads completely).
 
@GrahamChiu Well, I still think that AltMe is of more values since it's more a forum with chat than a chat with some forum nuances. But anyway... if I'm available I will hopp in, if not than not. AltMe has higher priority for my usecase.
 
In the meantime, I can go find a permalink to any chat message like pasting http://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/9986756#9986756 on a line by itself to quote you:
6 mins ago, by Robert M. Münch
Hmm... I must say that I'm not that impressed with SOC regarding keeping track, finding things etc.
 
@GrahamChiu Yes. I know how to set that up (although I haven't done it for a while)
 
8:34 AM
@johnk ahh.. good to hear!
if it all works, we could have the RSS feed on your server?
 
@RobertM.Münch In short, the feature set here is different, and kind of cool once you get used to what it's for. But importantly it gets Rebol people to have StackOverflow accounts so that the Q&A can move off of old crufty dead mailing list thingies that can't be edited like a wiki after the fact... and provides exposure for the language.
2
 
@johnk For me, xvfb-run ./altme was/is basically sufficient.
(Ignoring the aspects of wrapping that into a service, and auto-restarting, and ...).
 
@GrahamChiu - I am kind of fed-up with all that SO nonsense. First you need some stupid 20 point to be able to even chat. Almost everyone here is cheating on it, using artificial votes, but the authors still don't get it, how dumb their system is. Now you sent me to vote on RebolBot, but it say, I need some reputation first. Do their sites use different logins, or what?
 
@pekr oh yeah .. bunch of connected but different sites
I'd forgotten about that
 
I can see here I have 31 reputation points ... now how comes I need to logi-in once again on the link you pointed me to? I login, and see zero reputation points. I really have no time to study all their systems, rules, and other nonsense
 
8:37 AM
@pekr The sites do use different logins. But once you reach some number of points on any site (I forget what that number is) then the network trusts you and gives you 100 points on each new site membership to get you past the basics.
 
So my reputation points from here, don't apply there?
 
@earl Thanks :-)
 
well, the longterm aim is to shift to rebol.net .. but we need a suitable program
a BBS or chat .. not in php!
 
@pekr I think if you login with your SO account on Stackapps, you should get +100 rep automatically. Was the case for me, at least.
 
At least here we collect new users .. elsewhere we don't have that visibility
 
8:39 AM
I really don't understand, how anyone sane can tolerate this crap authors of those sites are putting on its users. This is overcomplicated. I aproached it as a normal user, logged in with my accounts, saw zere points. I am done with it ...
 
@pekr StackExchange is a network of sites and the goal is not to let a cabal from any network go around wedging into a community whose Q&A is unrelated with their moderation rep. I may be at 11K points here on StackOverflow, but that shouldn't mean I can go in and do unchecked wiki edits or vote for deletion on posts in cooking.
 
Well, this whole system of connected sites does self select the users ... those who can't be bothered do go away. Such is life.
Altme has the same issues ...we have people who absolutely refuse to use altme .. I can think of Carl Read as an example
 
@HostileFork - you might defend it as much as you want, still it does not make it any less of a nonsense. It is almost unusable for casual user. This stupid jumping between the modules, separate points, etc. OK, so RebolBot can't receive my vote-up, as my points from here don't apply over-there ...
 
As for sanity .. most of us using this site are happy and generally sane
 
@pekr I might similarly say I don't want to go to a club with a cover charge or a dress code, on matters of principle. And I may wind up in a place with a lot of people in sandals and Hawaiian shirts and sitting next to a homeless man who kind of smells.
 
8:42 AM
You can't even barely compare to Altme. Those who refuse it, do so by mostly a political reasons = non running in a browser = does not exist. Altme is simply integrated. SO is crap ...
 
Or, using a BBS where the admin spends all their time removing spam
 
Ah, the +100 site association bonus is only when you already have an account with 200+ rep somewhere. So Pekr's 31 rep won't get him the +100 bonus.
 
@earl well, fake reputation only takes you so far!
 
@GrahamChiu - your arguments can't keep up with me for a single second, sorry. Those guys at least should know, how to share sessions. How comes, that any site, which allows to be logged-in using FB, makes it seamless? Why does Apps site does not recognise my session from here?
 
@pekr "AltME is simply integrated" makes my day. A good laugh always helps!
 
8:44 AM
@earl - I don't react to stupid arguments, sorry ...
 
@pekr Well, like I say. I don't know. You may think all this newfangled stuff like video and voice chat and screen sharing are crap, and be in love with AltME instead of Skype. And you may not care AltME doesn't not just run in a browser...it won't run on a tablet or a phone either like Skype can. And you may not care that your conversation reading status is not updated across machines and your unread state is reset every time like on AltME
 
show me private chat here, show me separate rooms here, show me private rooms for selected users, show me check-list, show me file sharing, show me calendar. Ah, you can't ... all right ...
 
And you can huff and puff and tell me Skype is crap because you're too lazy to learn something new, or get in touch with your contact list you already have
 
I think at one point we are going to make a really cool collaboration app, that mixes forum, persistent chat, 1:1 chat, topic tracking and ideas from a mailing list into a simple, fast and easy to use solution.
 
Show me AltME notifications properly showing up on my desktop, and we can continue talking.
 
8:45 AM
Seems to be a market opportunity.
 
AltME does lots of things poorly. It's a dated piece of junk that is easily replaced by a set of other services.
 
@RobertM.Münch LOL, you're talking of qtask!
 
The five people who love AltME saying they love it because they've used it a long time doesn't make it good.
Embracing it any longer is anti-community, anti-growth, etc. Now I'm not saying StackOverflow chat is the only place we should be. It's just a place we have been for a bit. I'm encouraging us to do something smart with rebol.net as the rebol developer network as the diving in point for advocacy.
 
@HostileFork - how is Skype related? You forget I am here for 20 years, went thru News channels, mailing lists, IRC, Altme, IOS, ICQ, Skype, Lync, MSN, Yahoo ... what else should I know about instant messaging and sharing?
we need IOS being released, and make it a web interface, so that everyone is happy
 
BTW, you can have 1:1 chat here .. it's just not private
 
8:48 AM
@earl - so you pick-up one feature of altme? Now you are talking!
 
@pekr Uhhh... you were complaining StackOverflow chat doesn't have private conversations. If you want a private conversation or a group hangout use a better tool. This isn't for that. Your only issue is that you don't want to find out what people's Skype addresses are? You're mad because you can't use the same search facility to search Skype and chat? How often do you really need to do that?
 
@GrahamChiu No, I tried it. It's quite cool, but I never got used to it. To much stuff. I just need it dead simple and FAST, really FAST. One click, result. No web-request etc. Simple, fast, no reloading, no screen redraw clutter etc.
 
@pekr Do I need to pick up more? Like, 4, as you did?
 
@RobertM.Münch That's my point .. it was tried and failed
 
@HostileFork - thanks for your answer, earl might read it twice, as he laughed at how Altme is "integrated" in comparison to SO. And now you are suggesting me using different tools for all those things we can't do here :-)
 
8:49 AM
Some really smart people behind qtask .. but no traction
 
@GrahamChiu - I never felt at home with Qtask, dunno why. Most probably because it was really slow on any computer and browser I tried.
 
I know why and I got criticised when I mentioned it
 
@pekr Why is "integration" so important to you, over everything else? You just love integration for its own sake, no matter the cost in your greater functionality? As I say...how can you push a button in AltME and suddenly show a group of people a problem you're looking at on your screen while you're talking voice to them?
 
It was badly written JS, and poor interface
 
@pekr Right, those different tools at least integrate nicely. Unlike AltME ...
 
8:53 AM
BTW, I can see how to use SO for private chat .. write a client in R3GUI and send encrypted chat etc .. but @HostileFork said it would not be looked on benignly by the SO overlords!
Could in R3GUI create a tabbed interface etc too.
 
@Earl - well, each to his own. I was just recently asked by my brother's company, to isntall Altme again. It was easy for small team. We were thinking about some alternatives, he did not like any - most of the time too much complicated. They barely got used to the Google stuff - constant changes of interfaces, not so easy to grasp for occassional user, needing to share something - big and for me maybe the only disadvantage of Altme? Does not run on mobile devices ...
 
As demonstrated, StackOverflow chat integrates with the web. If I want to point someone to a message in context like wow, pekr sure loves integration I can show integration with the web. They can read your message in context.
 
@pekr That is the main issue ... everyone is moving to mobile devices
so Altme becomes useless
 
AltME still is a solid tool for small-group collaboration. But you don't have to have particularly high standards, and don't mind being reliable on a basically extinct vendor. The problem is, that every single component of AltME is outdated when compared to it's contemporary peers. And even the collection of those components is dated and it's almost 10 year old design shows.
 
@earl - what you call an integration is an integration of a different kind. By integration you mean talking to some other systems and that's correct. But what I meant by integration was self-integration - having needed functionality under one roof. Do you really want to use, to get the same functionality, xy different tools? (as. e.g. @HostileFork is suggesting to use Skype, for stuff which can't be done here?)
 
8:56 AM
Well, I don't see you complaining that the PhotoShop abilities of AltME are sorely lacking.
 
@pekr Yes, I really do want to do calendaring with a proper calendaring tool. Yes, I really want to do checklists with a proper todo manager. Yes, I really want to do file-sharing with something taking the particularities of file-sharing into account.
And then I want those tools to integrate nicely, which is one of the main jobs of a "desktop" or "OS".
 
@HostileFork - you use improper arguments. We are talking collaborative tools. I can see all those SO, Trellos, etc., and pity you never went via the Rebol IOS stage, you would probably understand, what I mean ... we can see cool systems here or ther, each provided by different vendors, usign different logic, different rules, different UI, etc.
@earl - cool, so now I just learned, that the unifying integration tool is OS itself, and the rest are just icons, leading to fifferent "modules", which OS integrates for me :-) So in a sense, my Lightroom is integrated with MS Excel, and my SAP client is integrated with Altme. Good to know :-)
 
@pekr I think you as an old Amiga fan didn't really have to learn that from me, but it's good that I could be of service.
 
@earl - but amiga had arexx ports in almost each app - so those could be intagrated. Now tell me, how do I send my Altme message here via unifying arexx port, and I agree with you :-)
 
@pekr That just proves my point. AltME didn't bother to play along, for most parts. It's one of the least integrated apps I have running.
 
9:03 AM
@pekr Well I understand that in many ways, there are older things that were done in better ways and there are all kinds of lost arts. Not just in computers, but also in manufacturing etc. as we move toward a disposable culture where cheap plastic garbage is sold in large quantities instead of people priding themselves in having a few good things that you might even hand down to the next generation.
 
OK, enough, need to do some boring presentation about SAP audit for my boss, so I am off. The only thing I can value SO for, is that it is visible, and attracts ppl to Rebol/Red, cudoz to that. But I don't feel much comfort here, mostly impossible to join after few days, and read thru all the chatter in this one channel ...
 
You don't really have to read thru all the chatter.
 
@pekr You don't have to read through all the chatter! I don't. Don't feel obligated. Release the old habit. :-) But maybe you would catch up on the QUESTIONS
 
If you want to, you'll just have to allocate a lot of time for it. Just like you would have to for any other highly active communications medium.
 
@pekr There is an RSS feed for Rebol Tagged Questions so you can watch for new ones. And thanks to @rgchris a feed for the new answers too.
 
9:06 AM
Otherwise, just drop by, say hi, and hang out and chat for a few minutes.
(Or hours! :)
 
That's what you should be following, not us yapping about updating the icon for RebolBot or whatever!
 
@earl - but I want, I am used to. I don't mind connecting to altme after 2-3 days, seeing red groups marked with new messages, catching up on what is going on. This group here mostly a talk-and-forget, as topic's can't keep-up for more than a day. It is psychological aspect, maybe my wrong perception. But it tells me something, and I really don't like its outcome ...
 
If AltME would be more active, you have a hard time reading through it as well. As was already the case several times in the past.
And I wonder how you get by at work, not knowing what was chatted about over a coffee 3 days ago :) ?
It's the same here: important topics resurface, other stuff doesn't.
And we have the starred messages on the side, to highlight stuff that should resurface for a bit longer.
 
@earl I just skipped stuff in altme when it was really active, and I still do now
 
@GrahamChiu Exactly. Just as I do here :)
 
9:09 AM
the single message in a box drives me nutty
 
@earl - it helped me in the past, to feel like a part of real community, reading between the lines, in private chats. Here the experience is really shallow. But I don't mind anyone here feeling lucky here, I am not though. I miss some experience here, and I have yet to identify, what is the main reason, why I feel really uncomfortable here ...
I will try RSS that feed though. Might improve my situation. I really want to catchup with BrianH here, see his replies to some R3 topics, etc.
 
"Reading between the lines" takes a lot of time, if there are many lines.
We will have to find and create a few news outlets with less activity and more consolidated information.
 
@earl - it might, but it helped me to grow with the community. We might be different persons. I like smaller and more tight communities, than tonnes of ppl, who just stop-by ... I remember those times, where IRC rooms or communities met in person ...
 
The messages here are threaded but the web client doesn't display the threading
 
And I can guarantee you, that for persons of Carl's nature, it is a nightmare :-)
 
9:13 AM
well, this is better than IRC ... surely
 
Well, yes. Quite a few people seem to be in fact complaining about that the community is getting more active and is growing.
 
can't win!
 
@pekr These are good ideas to consider what each venue is for, but we're here because here is a good place to be right now. And I'll again say that my idea is that the card we hand out for "join the Rebol community" will point people to http://rebol.net. So designing that experience and how we can provide something for everyone is something you might have input on.
 
it would help if the search were better here too
 
@GrahamChiu What's it you are missing?
 
9:22 AM
@earl I often search for terms and can't find them
just give up or try google site search
 
@GrahamChiu Interesting. Maybe we have to roll our own :) Maybe please ping me in private next time you encounter that issue.
 
skype? altme?
 
Either is fine.
 
Would it be possible to let RebolBot read all messages, and display them in a nice threaded, searchable, website?
 
Well, I don't really have the time, but it would be fun to write a client in R3GUI for here
 
9:25 AM
@ingo Doesn't have to be Rebolbot, but yes.
 
A client that could thread, show by userid etc
 
Just because she's already here.
 
How useful would that be? It's not really threading... it's just letting you call out a specific message to reply to.
 
@HostileFork Yes, you'd have to be meticulous about replying
 
Oh, it is real threading :)
 
9:26 AM
... and ... maybe even can automatically find hot topics of he day.
 
Where I just started a new thread...
 
It's just a "flat-threaded" display. And that you don't use reply for each and every message. So the value of the thread metadata is reduced.
(To the point of being almost useless, arguably.)
 
uh oh .. here we go again, writing our own clients in rebol ...
 
I wouldn't do that :)
 
except, if everyone used the "reply-to" which I guess won't work. Still dreaming is allowed.
 
9:30 AM
So far the search is also working quite well for me. I just usually sort by "newest", because the by "relevance" sorting is a bit awkward.
 
Weell, a Rebol Client would be something to show off. Nothing bad in that. But we shouldn't fall into the trap to make it a closed one.
And stop everything until it's done.
I didn't know you can sort by relevance.
 
@ingo It's the default :)
 
It is?
Then why don't I see what's most relevant _to me_? :-)
 
@ingo I think sorting by irrelevance is default for me!
 
Yes, same here.
 
9:33 AM
@rebolbot version
 
@GrahamChiu 0.0.41.12 14-Jun-2013
 
@ingo how far do you think search should extend back to ?
100 messages? 1000 messages?
 
@pekr small communities are fine, but at the moment I guess growing the Rebol community can only be beneficial.
This chat here isn't the best possible choice, but it is visible.
And not the worst, either.
 
@GrahamChiu All messages, but paged results.
Anyone knows if we have an RSS representation of the full room transcript?
 
@GrahamChiu @earl yep
 
9:37 AM
If not, I'd do that as a first step. Write a simple scraper that converts the full room transcript to a JSON datastructure or RSS, so that we can easily process it further.
I'd keep that distinct from the bot, so that we don't have to worry about bot hiccups causing gaps in the log.
 
well, I did mention the possiblity of storing all the messages in EC2 SDB
and using that as a search engine
'twas a while ago
 
@GrahamChiu All good ideas have already come before.
 
Agree that the bot shouldn't be the scraper... separate problem
Well yawn... I've gotten stuff done here tonight but I still have a lot to do tomorrow. I better sleep. Nite all...
 
Out
now SDB has a free tier which should easily cover all our requirements
Just need to setup some data structures
I would think I have some Rebol SDB code lying around
Any other suggestions??
 
Alternative would be Amazon's CloudSearch.
The bot receives messages as JSON?
 
9:49 AM
@earl Yes
 
Can you paste an example of a single message somewhere?
 
@earl oh .. no, that's out. 10c/hour!
 
Good first step for the bot would probably be to store all JSON messages in a logfile. We can then use that to inject it into a search thing, and also build a scraper in parallel, which generates the same JSON format from the full room transcript.
 
Perhaps
{"r291":{"e":[{"event_type":1,"time_stamp":1371203622,"content":"Perhaps","id":1‌​9857536,"user_id":76852,"user_name":"Graham Chiu","room_id":291,"room_name":"Rebol [and Red]","message_id":9988775}],"t":19857538,"d":8},"r31067":{"t":19857538,"d":8},"‌​r31083":{"t":19857538,"d":8}}
there's no parent-id field because I didn't reply to your message
 
Thanks
 
10:23 AM
@rebolbot source message-rule
 
message-rule: [
    <event_type> quote 1 |
    <time_stamp> integer! |
    <content> set content string! |
    <id> integer! |
    <user_id> set person-id integer! |
    <user_name> set user-name string! |
    <room_id> integer! |
    <room_name> string! |
    <message_id> set message-no integer! |
    <parent_id> set parent-id integer! |
    <show_parent> logic! |
    tag! skip |
    end
]
 
I'd imagine we could use all these as column names in the DB
the user_name can change though so that might be an issue
 
Why not use CouchDB (or something similar) to simply store the JSON messages ?
 
No experience
Is there an R3 CouchDB driver?
 
CocuhDB's API is simply HTTP.
You just GET/PUT/POST and DELETE documents
The tricky part is writing the queries in JavaScript. I think Tamas knows a lot about these "No SQL" databases.
I wouldn't be surprised if Earl doesn't too.
 
10:39 AM
i guess my main objection is .. that we would now need a DB savy person .. to install and maintain this, whereas SDB is free and requires no maintenance
@PeterWAWood Queries would need then to be created in advance
I would imagine we could write a bot dialect to query the DB
Just thinking out loud
 
 
1 hour later…
11:51 AM
There are some bits of working couchdb on r3, but rather old: http://wiki.apache.org/couchdb/Getting_started_with_Rebol

You can get a free instance of couchdb, e.g. at http://www.iriscouch.com/ (well, pricing info at the site is a little unclear, don't know at which point pricing starts).

Just for the record.
 
12:16 PM
@sqlab Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Sorry, your reputation score is too low to chat at present. Not our rules, but those of Stackoverflow. If you were to answer some questions, or ask some, we might be able to help by upvoting you. In the meantime, have a look at a Rebol introduction.
 
12:26 PM
0
A: Why allocate a variable in rebol?

sqlabpre-allocating a buffer is essential for the low level function read-io

 
 
2 hours later…
2:45 PM
@HostileFork Public wifi hotspot passwords app. Have a look at this article about it.
 
2:59 PM
do we have a participant list for the conference? im curious who is coming from where. maybe we can join on the flight... im still haven't bought the tickets but no im sure my departure will be from hong kong.
 
 
3 hours later…
5:55 PM
i found a quite nicely illustrated article about DCI rubysource.com/dci-the-evolution-of-the-object-oriented-paradigm/
what do you guys think about DCI?
would it be possible or would it make sense to do it in rebol?
i know r3 allows object extension without creating a new instance, but in ruby such an operation flushes some method lookup cache which hurts performance seriously. is there a similar issue in r3?
 
 
1 hour later…
7:18 PM
@GrahamChiu, what you are looking for is a fulltext searchengine like SOLR or better Elasticsearch (ES). Both are reliable products for your demands but I would prefer ES which is far easier to run out of the box (untar & run). Of course this depends on what you really need, if you don't need professional features a lib like Sphinx or Xapian would be sufficient.
ES interacts via a simple http post (JSON), in both directions, based on rock solid lucene with a SQL like query syntax, so your bot can interact with ES directly.
 
7:36 PM
I guess ES is capable enough to index the whole SO + Altme chat + the complete R2/3 source code library in 2 minutes and delivers complex search results over that within avg. 15ms on a hot index, running on a 512 - 1 GB RAM JVM ;-)
I am using ES to handle some TB of data without any problems so far...
 
 
1 hour later…
9:03 PM
@TomBon ES Looks impressive but it needs 1Gb of ram, and Java, and Java won't run on an EC2 T1 microinstance of 784k of ram.
@RebolBot present
 
@GrahamChiu GrahamChiu onetom DocKimbel earl HostileFork RobertM.Münch johnk rgchris Adrian Respectech pierre
 
784k 784mb ram
 
9:20 PM
I suspect it would be a great advert for Rebol to build a GUI client more capable than this JS one. I don't have the GUI skills yet though so would need help from @rebolek !!
 
9:32 PM
Introducing: Make Doc for Rebol 3. Plain text -> HTML/Other formats. It can be used in place at reb4.me or downloaded.
3
Usage: do http://reb4.me/r3/makedoc probe make-doc "Test"
 
@rgchris other formats?
 
You can use different grammars, emitters, etc. with a custom refinement: make-doc/custom "Test" [paragraph: %mdp-paragraph.r document: %mdp-document.r markup: %asciidoc.r] (examples from my pieces for the rebol.net project)
 
so you can define a source grammar and a target emit format?
 
I don't claim to have an extensive set, that'd be work-in-progress.
@GrahamChiu Yes. And if you say [root: %my-folder/] in the /custom block, it'll use sets that are in your folder.
 
well, very cool then
 
9:39 PM
Included is RSP for templates and 'load-doc gives you a DOM.
I'll try and write up some documentation ('cause I like doing that).
 
so you can process md2, mdp, and md3 ?
so you could potentially go from asciidoc to html?
 
Potentially.
Grammars are just parse blocks. One for documents, one for paragraphs.
 
so what are the paragraph and document words in your dialect mean?
 
They refer to the files (in root—default reb4.me/md) that contain each definition.
 
@rgchris forbidden
 
9:46 PM
@GrahamChiu I noticed. Fixed :)
Admittedly I've really only begun to get the generic scanners/emitters in place. More to come...
@RebolBot
do http://reb4.me/r3/makedoc
probe make-doc "Test^/^/Doc"
probe make-doc/custom "Test^/^/Doc" [markup: %asciidoc.r]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> do reb4.me/r3/makedoc probe make-doc "Test^/^/Doc" probe make-doc/custom "Test^/^/Doc" [markup: %asciidoc.r]
{
<!-- document begin -->
<p>Test</p>
<p>Doc</p>
<!-- document end -->
}
{Test
====

Doc

////
; done}
== {Test
====

Doc

////
; done}
 
where is it getting %asciidoc.r from ?
>> view [ tab-box [ "1" [ button ] "2" [ button ]]]
** Script error: in does not allow none! for its object argument
** Where: reduce either parse reduce-opts view unless actor all foreach do-actor
@rebolek .. I thought this used to work?
 
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