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2:03 PM
@Proxy If it was in my town... Yes... But I would have to move ^^. So it's kinda up to the other 2 positions. First one with .Net seems like a cool place to grow. Pretty good salary I believe. Nice employees/employers.

Second one is going to move to an office close to my apartment. I got 2 class mates that works there currently and they like it.

Third one is like a small hipster company haha. But definitely the more exciting. But moving man... Gah
 
moving sucks balls
 
Yes
Especially to a city where finding a decent place to live is... Close to impossible without z moenyz
 
When you guys use Configurations for publish and deployment, there are the 2 default ones. Debug & Release. Do you typically use those at all? or just create custom ones like Development, Test, & Production?
 
Customs and never touch them when deploying
 
never touch them when deploying?
 
2:08 PM
If they don't carry any changes, of course
 
So do you just delete debug & release?
 
Never really use the publish tool in VS if that is what you are referring to. Usually building the project in release, copying the files that I want to copy. At least that's how we did it at the company I worked for. It could get messy though,
 
Yeah I was referring to the publish tool.
 
@JakobMillah buddy lives in Gothenburg
'Lives'
 
Well if you use Release in the end.. where do your custom ones come into play?
 
2:10 PM
He said getting somewhere decent on a postdoc salary is hard
 
1. Publish into 'Web Deploy' package.
2. Install on Staging server.
3. Test on Staging server.
4. Install on Production server.
5. Get coffee.
 
@RoelvanUden I was going to set up 3 configs. 1 for Dev, 1 for Test, and 1 for Prod. Each one containing a transform that points to the correct database.
Then use Web Deploy to publish directly to the servers.
Does that seem okay?
 
@TomW Exactly... 'Lives' :P Don't feel like commute 1 hour/day. That would probably be the case if I had to find something temporarily. They did offer me to get a few jobs where I currently live while looking for a place in Gothenburg
@Michael I think that is ok. I don't think the publish one overwrites the config file? If I am not mistaken
 
@JakobMillah i see, well hope you will get to work on core then
 
2:15 PM
@Michael Sure, if that works for you and your company, there is nothing wrong with it. Arguably, the consensus seems to be to never add the capability to deploy something directly into production in fear of the "Oops" moment where you accidentally publish to the wrong server. Most of our products are published in that exact manner, tho, publishing directly onto the machine.
 
We'll see! :)
What's your guys experiences working with a large enteprise rather than a smaller company?
pros/cons
 
@Ggalla1779 bastards, I considered putting a bet on
 
@JakobMillah No personal experience
 
@RoelvanUden I can see that. It would be easy to accidentally publish to production. Thats where your Web Deploy Packages come in? where someone actually has to take the package to IIS and manually install it?
 
i also have noone
i guess you will be able to dooze off more in a larger company, but you never know
 
2:18 PM
@RoelvanUden So would you recommend I just delete the default Debug & Release Configs? because they will just cause confusion between the Developlment, Test, & Production custom configs I create?
 
"dooze off"? :)
Delete them!
begone!
 
@Michael Exactly. That's often another team as well. You have development, and you have DevOps. They are usually responsible for the final installations onto staging and production machines, and development teams rarely even have access to them (to prevent accidents and whatnot). Of course, that's larger-company style.
 
Adios Amigos
 
@JakobMillah I need @RoelvanUden 's approval
 
You don't trust my judgement? Goodbye. I think my time on this planet is over.
I'm moving to Mars!
 
2:20 PM
@Michael Debug and Release are fine as they are. You don't want to delete them. Just set your publish to use the release build and keep using your debug when.. debugging. You only ever need to switch your active config if there is a problem with release build that doesn't apply to debug (e.g. you use #if DEBUG)
 
@JakobMillah you have $100,000 cash to go with elon?
 
@JakobMillah Mars!
 
@RoelvanUden but my point was to create 3 configs (dev, test, & prod) to transform the connectionstrings.
 
But don't you always like.. Customize your config files? I mean.. You usually want to do stuff that the default doesn't add? Heck do I know.
@Michael I'll take a loan. EZ PZ
 
@RoelvanUden If I keep Debug & Release, then How can I manage the connection string transform?
 
2:21 PM
@Michael Oh, right, that should be fine, except you want a dev-release there as well (for local testing release builds)
 
hm okay.
@RoelvanUden well, so if you arn't using configs to alter your connection strings how do your apps know which db to use?
 
@JakobMillah yeah, does that not mean to get lost inside your thoughts?
reach divine enlightenment
 
@Proxy No idea, might be :) Me Englis nie gut
 
well i hope it is or i have been using the wrong word for a long time
 
@Michael With web deploy paramters.
devops guys would be prompted with the connection string
they're responsible for it.
 
2:26 PM
@Proxy to sleep lightly or fitfully. 2. to fall into a light sleep unintentionally (often followed by off): He dozed off during the sermon. 3.
 
@RoelvanUden I see. And that can only really be used with the packages I assume?
 
So you are proably right!
 
@Michael Exactly. Web Deploy was made for exactly this kind of thing.
But your approach, on a smaller company, is absolutely fine.
 
yay!
 
2:27 PM
awesome, thanks.
 
Oh, that is coolek.
 
@JakobMillah What is on the other door
 
No idea.. I just felt like giving you the curse I was given by seeing this! :P
Cool slogan though
If we can't guarantee it, we won't sell it.
 
2:46 PM
Does anyone know F# here?
"drive"?
 
@alan2here I've dabbled. Reed Copsey knows it well.
 
let mutable x = 10
let z () = x * 2

printfn "%i" x
printfn "%i" (z ())

x <- 15

printfn ""
printfn "%i" x
printfn "%i" (z ())
I thought there wasn't supposed to be much of a difference between variables and functions that took no parameters in a lazy evaluated functional language like F#.
However I cannot remove the () and still have "z" maintain being twice "x".
 
The crucial bit is the mutability
Once you add that, there is a difference
 
lol, ok
TY
 
I think, though, that that's a language-dependent thing
 
2:50 PM
It doesn't make so much difference anyway if it's immutable.
 
z could be memoized, in which case it wouldn't change
 
Kyrgyzstan cannot find its constitution
 
mutability kind of defeats memoization
 
Someone threw away the original..
 
z = x could also form a reference to x
but there's no reason for it to do so
 
2:51 PM
I've got the desired behavior even with mutability by giving it a dummy, does nothing paramer
 
I normally stick to pure functional programming, so I don't need to deal with mutability
 
so it's not super lazy evaluated with mutable variables, but it is super easy to make a something a function instead of a variable so you get lazyness, but it's not really a function in disguise every time you have a variable like I thought it would be.
In the spirit of F#, I shall try and make heavy use of immutables and wave goodbye to itteration
 
3:12 PM
Does lots of memory get used up in an F# program where the return values of appropriate functions are being memorized all the time?
 
3:24 PM
So web config transforms only work when you actually publish? not when you build or debug?
hm... very weird. Appears that is the case.
But then why does setting Release Config and then attempting to debug not work?
 
@alan2here I'm not sure if F# does memoization at all. It's a potentially useful concept, but not necessarily worth doing by default in a general-purpose langauge. Note: it's not spelled "memorized"
 
@Michael yes only when you build
When you set it to release in the debug menu it is not taking that into consideration?
 
@KendallFrey TY
 
@juanvan It is not doing my custom transforms when I build, only when I actually publish.
@juanvan for example I wanted to test out my connectionstring transforms. When I switched the config to "production" and then ran in visual studio (Without debug) the connectionstring still points to whatever my default (dev) one is.
But If I actually publish using the "production" config, it points to the correct production string connectionstring
 
3:43 PM
Ya publish should respect the transformation
 
@juanvan publish does but why wouldnt building?
 
Anyone have a favorite screen recording tool? I thought Camtasia was free but I can't find the free version anymore.
 
I've thought before about having a feature where some functions in a program can be completely pre-computed.

Functions that take X bytes, in any form, for example it could be 6 bytes by being (UInt16 and UInt32), and return Y bytes, for example 1 byte by being (byte).

These were my conclusions about memory usage, where "n" is the number of bytes the function returns:

1 -> (256 * n) B
2 -> (64 * n) KB
3 -> (16 * n) MB
4 -> (4 * n) GB
5 -> n TB
6 -> (256 * n) TB

So it's reasonably practical up to 3 and probably worth doing in places at 4.
 
@Michael I remember having this problem, but can't find the solution right now :(
 
Sorry, that took way to long to write :¬P About something ages ago now.
 
3:53 PM
@juanvan like I assume this tranform gets called duirng build. and thats why it tells you you cant debug with Release:
<system.web><compilation xdt:Transform="RemoveAttributes(debug)" />
but... why wouldnt the other transforms work.
 
4:04 PM
@Michael Transformation are a Build only action
If you go to the projects properties and in the Build, change the drop down to Release then that transformation will happen as expected.
 
lol, "Some" concept
 
4:26 PM
@alan2here That reminds me of a super-fast poker hand algorithm I read about. It precomputes literally everything into a huge lookup table, and to actually evaluate a poker hand takes one pointer dereference per card. It's ridiculously fast.
 
Do you guys think using Black them of visual studio is good for eyes? Everyone at my work uses it, I just find it hard to read stuff on that theme.
 
@Obviously I've been using it for years. I don't know if it's healthier, but it feels better in dim light.
 
tgif
I hate the dim theme
Makes it obnoxious to read
 
4:43 PM
why can't you ctrl+w a class page in VS?
 
@Obviously I use the black theme. I find it much easier on my eyes.
 
Black theme is objectively worse
 
@Nathvi racist
 
5:08 PM
Black Ice Matters
 
6:11 PM
@alan2here why you don't join to the FSSF?
 
6:27 PM
wtf guys , Github is down ?
This site can’t be reached

github.com’s server DNS address could not be found.
Try running Windows Network Diagnostics.
 
Yeah, dyn's DNS has been getting DOSed all day.
 
All Day since last night - it's been BAD
 
6:50 PM
rogeralsing.com/2012/09/24/c-consume-non-async-apis-as-async is this something we can rely on or it is faking being async?
So will it give any benefit wrapping 3rd party API's this way? (if they do not have *async methods)
 
What's the best way create an asynchronous method that yields values? Basically, I want to have a progress bar on my form that's updated based on an async method.
 
@MorganThrapp you can use background worker. dotnetperls.com/backgroundworker
 
@Teomanshipahi Thanks, I'll check it out,
 
hmm on my iis Test server I am getting 404s for everything. Any common trouble shooting steps? This isnt making sense.
I event tried putting a default.htm at the root of the site and i still get a 404
 
@Michael is this localhost?
 
7:05 PM
yes
@Teomanshipahi well.. its a networked server. if thats what you mean.
But if i try to navigate to localhost in the browser i get 404
 
You might need to turn some windows features on, sometimes it gives weird errors like that. support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/315122
Was it working before?
 
@Teomanshipahi actually i stand corrected. It looks like the site isnt set up to point to localhost
the thing is that, this worked a few days ago fine.
I'm not sure what changed
 
If you create new website like localhost:8085/index.html will it work?
I am doubt it is server level or app level.
 
let me see
actually I guess idk how to do that
the actual error I'm getting on the server is a:HTTP Error 404.7 - Not Found

The request filtering module is configured to deny the file extension.
but the request filtering hasnt been touched or anything
@Teomanshipahi is there an actual web.config file for each site?
 
web.config is for ASP.NET configuration.
 
7:16 PM
@Teomanshipahi right. so that wouldn't affect this then?
 
It can effect the request. If you introduce new handlers or modules.
those will be executing during request pipeline
 
@Teomanshipahi if I delete any web.config though it should be able to function fine though?
I mean, I'm just trying to get a basic default.htm to show up
 
Do you know how to create new website in IIS? support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/323972
Just create new website and make sure your website renders
if it works migrate your website into new one until it breaks.
 
hm okay
 
Hard to say anything without seeing configuration details.
 
7:22 PM
@Teomanshipahi okay with a new site I still get the same 404.7 error
@Teomanshipahi oh shit.... wow I am stupid
@Teomanshipahi the request filtering was set to NOT allow unlisted items
It looks like that is actually the default....
how is that possible?
 
7:37 PM
Looks like webcams, fridges, and weather sensors have DDoS'd the internets. I don't think that was the intent of an internet of things.
 
@TravisJ hmm? I thought it was some hacker group?
 
Yes, it was.
But that is just who sits on the throne, not who fights the battles.
 
an army of refrigerators? my goodness..
 
Each with their own unique MAC and (temporarily unique) IP address.
Mostly it is webcams though, there aren't quite enough wifi fridges.
Probably tv's too.
 
7:43 PM
lol
so true
 
fk
 
pk
 
clustered index
 
8:01 PM
vertical partition
 
whats the difference between localdb and MSSQLSERVER?
I feel like "." used to represent and instance of localdb but now days it seems to point to MSSQLSERVER
 
localdb tends to be a file, which in your project tends to be included as a reference
 
With an ASP.NET MVC app in VS 2015 in development with an empty db, is there a way to provide some fake JSON data to the app so that the views look more realistic?
Right now, a view only shows the table column headers and no rows, so getting the look and feel is a little tricky.
 
throw some fake data in the viewbag?
 
Considering how common this is, is there a tool for generating some data based on the field types as a JSON file, and pointing the app to that?
 
8:10 PM
I would hope so. I dont know of any though
 
@Michael Yep, that would work. But tedious and manual
 
8:26 PM
Howdy.
 
If I have a StatusStrip, can I anchor one of the controls on it to the right side and another to the left?
 
What's a StatusStrip?
 
awwww yeah. winforms
 
Yup. :D
 
8:36 PM
@KendallFrey - What do you think of this? stackoverflow.com/questions/40184417/…
 
@TravisJ not much?
 
Do any of you use schema compares?
 
@KendallFrey - using var seems to cause the runtime binder to use object instead of int even though the return type of Convert.ToInt seems pretty clear.
 
Except for the fact that it's a dynamic expression, which is always object under the covers
 
the DBA here before he left, said that SA accounts were no longer best practice and removed them from various databases.
our domain admin accounts have permission to the DBs but not my normal workstation account. and thats what I use for development.
 
8:40 PM
@KendallFrey - Why would var number = Convert.ParseInt32(val); be an object while int number = Convert.ParseInt32(val) is an int?
 
There doesnt appear to be a way to use different windows auth to connect to a DB when doing a schema compare
 
because val is dynamic
thus implying that Convert.ParseInt32(val) is dynamic
 
Why is that the implication with var and not int?
 
With int, the compiler sees that it needs to cast the dynamic to an int, which it does so successfully
With var, it uses whatever type is the type of the expression
 
Isn't the type of the expression int though when using the result of ParseInt?
 
8:43 PM
No, because it's still a dynamic expression
dynamic typing is like NaN, it propagates everywhere
 
On my previous question. stackoverflow.com/questions/509508/… Seriously? What is this, CSS?
 
@KendallFrey ت
 
@MorganThrapp ? CSS for HTML?
 
@KendallFrey - If that is the case, why does the suggestion in this answer work? stackoverflow.com/a/40185293/1026459
 
8:56 PM
@FoggyFinder Whats that?
 
@TravisJ If what is the case?
Nothing of what I said has anything to do with the actual problem itself
 
@KendallFrey - That the inheritance chain is too deep
 
I don't know
I suspected it was something similar to that
but all I have is guesses
 
Yeah, I don't have anything concrete either which is why I asked you
 
re your comment, I'm pretty sure it's something in the DLR, which is why it doesn't affect statically typed code.
Not sure why the DLR doesn't behave like the static code though
 
9:01 PM
I think there is a set of conditions (that I am trying to locate) which determines whether or not to implicitly cast to the return type of a method call versus the expression type used.
 
@juanvan Nah, I was just making a joke about how dumb that spacing is.
 
@KendallFrey - So, it was for the first reason you said that the exception was happening. If the expression is of type dynamic the implicit cast of the return type isn't used.
 
What reason? I never gave a reason
 
34 mins ago, by Kendall Frey
With var, it uses whatever type is the type of the expression
 
That doesn't explain the exception
 
9:16 PM
It was the missing piece
 
It only sets up the condition in which the exception can occur
In my mind, the missing piece was why dynamic doesn't work with inheritance
 
Why do you think dynamic isn't working with inheritance?
 
Sunshine's answer
 
Ed Plunkett and I may as well be the same person, we're saying the same things all the way through
 
9:23 PM
lol
@KendallFrey - I think perhaps it is related to explicit versus implicit interface implementation
The issue you are addressing, which I believe is slightly tangential to the original problem, but still strongly related.
 
@TravisJ There's no explicit interface implementation there. Unless you mean that it would work with explicit implementation?
 
IRepo<Taco> explicitly implements DoStuff, whereas ITacoRepo implicitly implements it.
 
That's not what those terms normally mean
 
In what sense? Explicit: direct at face value. Implicit: implied through nested inspection.
 
9:34 PM
hm
Perhaps it is being called explicitly though
 
I don't know what that means
 
ITacoRepo.DoStuff could be happening once the compiler has run
 
Still not
 
Jon Skeet agrees
> explicit interface implementation only allows you to call the implemented member via an expression which is the interface type
http://csharpindepth.com/Articles/Chapter14/DynamicGotchas.aspx
 
@TravisJ That doesn't have anything to do with the question
 
9:43 PM
@KendallFrey - The example shows ICollection.Count causing the same problem ('System.Array' does not contain a definition for 'Count') when using dynamic to call a method on an ICollection.
 
Interesting, but unrelated
 
hm
 
10:16 PM
@RoelvanUden continuing on the JS discussion and VSCode... What about Debugging? VS seems to take the cake there and debugging is very important to me. VSC has a debugger but it seems itself to be quite error prone and just not as simple to get into
 
@TeeSee Debugging JS? VS can't even do that properly. Node Tools for VS is okay, but VSCode is vastly superior IMO. It's the same experience as debugging with Chrome in VSCode. It just works well and as expected, whereas VS cannot just attach to Chrome (and mapping to IE is a motherfucker).
 
Debugging JS in chrome isn't so bad, but it can only breakpoint to the code that it has in cache and not your actual IDE code.
 
10:38 PM
Yeah, VS can't attach to Chrome, whereas VSCode can.
You can just place breakpoints inside the IDE and inspect everything in Chrome.
So, it can debug both server (nodejs) and client code without breaking as much as a sweat. :P
 
@RoelvanUden You can even pause execution.
It leads to very interesting scenarios sometimes.
 
@RoelvanUden Why is the debugging so weak for JS compared with other languages? Is it because its interpreted? Or is it just a culture thing since it started in the browser?
 
@TeeSee - It is generally understood that if you write browser based JS code then you do not need to use a debugger or any sort of testing. #culture
Although that is all being revolutionized right now. In a few years I would assume JS will be more integrated into IDE's as it becomes a more viable server side language.
 
@TravisJ That's what I dont get (no need for testing/debug in browser). Code is code, why has it been ok to not test/debug browser code?
 
@TeeSee It's because it's in the browser. If anything, interpreted code is probably easier to write a debugger for.
 
10:50 PM
@KendallFrey is the idea that basically the browser has limited scope anyways so its not that serious?
 
@TeeSee - Well, client side code is seen as untrustworthy in general, since clients potentially just hack the whole deal anyway. As a result, nothing mission critical is ever placed in client side JavaScript and so the only side effect that causes any legitimate problems come from interface testing. If the interface works, then that is usually as far as anything gets with regards to testing client side JS code.
Unless you are making a library to distribute, in which case people want to see testing in order to trust that your code does what it says and will not cause problems being used in house.
I would say that library creation in JavaScript, while prevalent today, is not the majority of actual work being done with JavaScript.
 
I think the main problem is the rapid prototyping nature of JS and browser-based techs in general
If you can bang together a working website in 5 hours, and a working, tested website in 25 hours, why bother with testing and debugging?
 
@TravisJ Oh got it. Thanks and sorry for my ignorance. Coming from working with desktop apps all the time, I was super used to stepping through code, setting watches, and even sometimes examining the assembly and then I started getting into web dev and meeting front-end devs, and for lack of a better description, I felt like I was an alien descending upon earth whenever I mentioned the debugger
So I legitimately had no clue why that was and what for
everyone just console.log and crap
Im thinking wtf.. Ive watched guys struggle for 2 hours over something a debugger could solve in 30 seconds on ScreenHero
Although, CHrome debugger is decent
My knowledge of the "JavaScript scene" is probably my most lacking trait
@KendallFrey well, I use the debugger as a development tool sometimes in writing code. Its not so much I'd want to debug the entire app, but I just learned to use it a lot for various purposes
 
Heh, if someone took 2 hours to solve a 30 second issue, then perhaps that has more to do with them than JavaScript itself ;)
That reminds me of the whole argument that certain developers are 100 times more efficient than others.
(240 times in this case) :P
 
fwiw, I debugged JS with VS for years, without a browser involved.
 
11:00 PM
Anyway, I am leaving early today
back on monday
or tuesday
 
@TravisJ alright Travis cya have a good one
@KendallFrey what did you use for that?
 
It was running in another program, our flagship product
 
Ohhh, I need to play with the Node debugger more. It's just been a bit different from the one I'm used to with C#
 
lol I Stayed up till 2:40 AM should have done some programming but watched a movie but it was weirdly funny so worth it xD Sausage Party xD
 
11:34 PM
Hi Kendall, hi Pedram. I just posted this question about the EF Model Designer. Any ideas? stackoverflow.com/questions/40186740/…
 
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