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12:00 AM
not like trying to figure out Unicode, ASCII, ANSI, and code pages
 
;) Yeah, that's my thought
building a simple GUI is much easier than trying to work out console "graphics"
and more rewarding in the end
 
Besides, I'm making a library for console graphics
eheheh
 
I'm not even sure how I would make a GUI
 
hey, can anyone give me a hand with: stackoverflow.com/questions/25840141/…
 
@Tokencodingnewbie step 1: google "WPF tutorial"
 
12:15 AM
@ReedCopsey Polymorphism is an OO Practice.... ?
 
@RyanTernier I meant that whole portion of the statement :)
polymorphism and OO can be problematic as often as they're good ;)
 
@KendallFrey Nooo not WPF.
 
@Tokencodingnewbie Why not? WPF is great
 
@ReedCopsey Only when you hire straight out of university developers who think they have a level 99 flaming sword of .NET with +5 Anti-Pattern resistence added to it wearing a cowboy hat.
 
Because I just didn't get it and confused myself more with it.
The whole binding crap.
I wanted to ignore graphical stuff to learn more about code.
 
12:22 AM
@RyanTernier hehehe - the biggest "OO messes" I've seen were from very senior level developers :p
but I'm getting less and less enamored with OO as I get older
 
hahaha
 
@Steve Are you using Web Froms, Razor (WebPages framework) or MVC?
 
give me a good way to express the model domain, and tooling that enforces the safety and integrity of the business logic, and I'm happy - OO usually just works against that
 
@Tokencodingnewbie Well I don't know what else you would use.
 
Ugh I just want to work on code, not design stuff.
Don't they have designers for that stuff?
 
12:24 AM
UI isn't hard, it's just classes like the rest of the framework
 
@ReedCopsey I have to admit, I've destroyed somethings before. I lived in a "product" world for 10 years then I got put into a position where I only work on a project for 1 year while the company tries to suck as much $$ out of it as they can.
"Make it work as fast and as ugly as you can. Once the year is up we don't care. DO it fast, and get it working"
:(
 
yeah :(
 
you don't need to make a databound MVVM app just to do something simple like tic-tac-toe
 
Then someone like you gets it and it's a whole lot of "WHAT THE *****"
 
12:25 AM
There's a reason I don't use my real name when I check in code ;)
 
in my eyes, once you grok using a good type system and what the compiler itself can do for you, "best oo practices" become annoying more than helpful IMO
lol
 
@Tokencodingnewbie no, not at all
 
how will the UI update D:?!
 
@ReedCopsey grok?
 
@Tokencodingnewbie you just change the data being displayed
 
12:26 AM
!!urban grok
 
@ReedCopsey grok Taken from the book 'Stranger in a Strange Land,' literally meaning 'to drink' but taken to mean 'understanding.' Often used by programmers and other assorted geeks.
 
e.g. label.Text = "some text"
 
@RyanTernier Great one to watch on that subject, btw, is skillsmatter.com/skillscasts/…
 
Hrm
How much experience does one need for an entry level coding job?
and how does one get said experience?
 
last sentence there is key:
 
12:27 AM
coding
 
"Types can be used to represent the domain in a fine-grained, self documenting way. And in many cases, types can even be used to encode business rules so that you literally cannot create incorrect code. You can then use the static type checking almost as an instant unit test — making sure that your code is correct at compile time."
 
Don't they usually look for work experience?
 
that's not really possible via OO practices, and attempts to get there typically make the code crazy to understand
@Tokencodingnewbie Completely depends on the company and the job - but contributing to open source is a great way nowadays
 
As long as you understand the syntax, and the basics of how to write a functional program, you should be able to get some sort of work
even if it's just an internship
 
@Tokencodingnewbie When I interview developers for a junior position, I don't really care about their "syntax" knowledge. I can teach that, or send them to get training if I think they need it. I care about how their brain thinks. Do they understand concepts, can they grow. Are they willing to learn. Are they active in the .NET world. DO they read blogs, do they code for fun, etc.
 
12:30 AM
IMHO, coding for fun is really important for newbies
It means they enjoy coding, and they like to learn
 
^ +100 (and important for any professional developer, too, no matter what experience level)
anyways - gotta run - have a good night, all
 
Yeah I'm coding for fun right now and taking my pre-reqs for computer science classes.
 
For a Senior position, it is a lot about Syntax, design patterns, anti patterns, requirements, debugging, "how would they approach this problem", Get them to explain Dependency INjection to the Human Resource lady so she can understand it, etc.
The last one is the hardest I find... but in my mind a senior developers should be able to explain complex things to a non-techie person because Seniors will be client facing in a consulting firm.
Intermediates are things like, difference between: throw ex; and throw;, "You have a web page that shows a list of users, which is saved in a database. I want to be able to delete a user from the web page. tell me how you'd implement that"
 
Well looking around they are asking jr developers to have 2-4 years experience.
 
Of course they are. Juniors are cheap :) They probably want INterns to have 1-2 years experience too right? ;)
 
12:38 AM
@baeltazor razor
@baeltazor razor views, mvc framework
 
I see no internships, how much does a jr make?
 
@Tokencodingnewbie It depends on the company, province/state (or country). where are you looking?
 
Ugh internet is acting up
@RyanTernier I'm looking in chattanooga TN, doesn't look like a whole lot.
 
1:15 AM
Anyone seen Lews around recently?
 
 
1 hour later…
2:22 AM
I'm so excited right now lol. I just finished my custom drawn Switch control.
 
tx
@Tokencodingnewbie what u up to?
 
Tic tac toe, lul
talking to a few friends, about to eat some leftovers and play Dead Rising before bed
 
omg lol I love dead rising
 
Dead Rising 3.
Since it's for PC now
Good choice on their end
 
user1881400
2:59 AM
@Tokencodingnewbie are you still having problems with Binding in WPF?
 
user1881400
Here's a very simple guide to follow while learning wpf. It helped me a lot: wpf-tutorial.com/about-wpf/what-is-wpf
 
@FizzledOut Some, I'm not going to focus on it and just keep practicing coding.
 
user1881400
@Tokencodingnewbie It's essential if you want to program in WPF that you at least know resources, markup extensions (binding, staticresource, dynamicresource) and xaml's property syntax (where <tag property=""> can also be written as <tag.property><tag.property/>
 
user1881400
Those are, I think, the most important.
 
@FizzledOut Well right now I'm just trying to learn c#, I think I was getting in too deep with my last project idea, now I'm just doing simple stuff.
 
user1881400
3:12 AM
@Tokencodingnewbie This is the best C# tutorial I know of for people who can get along quickly, but still are unfamiliar with other languages: rbwhitaker.wikidot.com/c-sharp-tutorials. It also has a section on the obsolete XNA technology, but you can just ignore that.
 
3:29 AM
@FizzledOut Thanks, I have to go to bed but I'll glance over it.
 
4:04 AM
soooo key is stuck on a laptop
anyone got a service written that'll ignore key entry
 
 
3 hours later…
7:05 AM
Morning
 
7:22 AM
mornin
 
morning
 
hi goatlove :3
 
hi
@Shaun any chance you have a link to an mvc tutorial with viewmodel that has edit and view actions
 
@Gotalove how basic
 
@Gotalove New => MVC4 Project => Basic Web Site Template
 
7:37 AM
@RoelvanUden thats too basic.@Shaun Am trying to get the hang of working with viewmodels that incorporate data from two or more tables.
I have done it but what I have is shit
 
Just make a POCO, fill it with data, and pass it into the view?
 
MVCMusicstore ?
oh oh
 
@RoelvanUden this is how I have done it pastie.org/9558161 this is an edit page image imgur.com/cfo6ACy
actually thats also a create page image
 
8:15 AM
@shakthi mvc musicstore is actually a good example,thanks.
 
@Gotalove i was gonna send you that but wasn't sure what you wanted ^^ it helped me when I did MVC
 
@Shaun mvc can be so frustrating when your a newbie like me
by the way do they have the downloadable project on that link cant quite find it asp.net/mvc/tutorials/mvc-music-store/mvc-music-store-part-10
 
@Gotalove yeah I'm also a noob at MVC and I hate it
 
thanks @Shaun
 
Morning
@Gotalove If you're looking to do a practice project, nerddinner is literally the most perfect example.
 
8:32 AM
fan wouldn't spin at bootup on a laptop. should I replace entire fan+heatsink or just fan?
 
@NETscape usually just the fan
Might depend on whether your fan and heatsink are attached ..
 
@NETscape put dick in fan
hows life sipps
i'm on a roll this morning shades
 
deal wid it
I'm good
Came to work in jeans and tshirt cos fukit
 
@NETscape Entire laptop should be replaced.
 
we only do that on fridays
casual fridays n that
 
8:35 AM
Lol
 
@RoelvanUden that's what repair shop told brother in law
said it would be about $175-$200
after labor
 
Lol
Fix it yourself .. if it's just the fan that won't move, ez
 
yeah i got it disassembled already
its a $13 fan
 
I can see how those shops stay afloat though
They tell someone with no idea they need a $200 fix
Spend 20 minutes and $13
gg
 
exactly
 
8:37 AM
especially old women
 
Pretty gay really
 
prey on the elderly
arseholes
 
Lol
As if it's just the elderly
I know plenty of 20 year olds I could say that to
 
and teh stupid :p
fair enough though
they deserve to pay the fees if they can't google how to repair hardware rly
 
Well, I guess.
 
8:38 AM
but i couldn't imagine a 70 year old woman doing it ;p
 
If you're not curious enough about how stuff works, you can pay people who are hahaha
Fuck that old women are masters of DIY
 
only arts and crafts
they'd probably just knit a motherboard or something
 
My nan can't turn on her TV without help though.
That'd be pretty spectacular..
 
makeithappen
i had to go to my aunties once just to install some anti virus software and remove all the adware she'd downloaded, also to change her search engine back to google lmao
she gave me like 30 pounds i was just like err
 
I've seen mould turned into a basic computer.
 
8:41 AM
"you're so good with computers"
facepalms
 
I usually build computers in my spare time lol
Tell em what to buy
 
@Sippy let me look it up.
 
Then go to their house and build it
And get paid
 
noice
i'm planning on building my own just need the money
keep spending it all so quik
 
Lol
What are you gonna use it for?
 
8:57 AM
Can I ask why public List<string> myList {get; private set;} is considered readonly when it still allows myClass.myList.Add("some value");
 
Because you can't set the object itself.
 
@MyDaftQuestions Because you can't set the property to a new list.
 
Beat u roel
im da winn0r
 
Damn you~~
 
lol
morning all
 
9:04 AM
I see. So, is there an easy way to prevent the method call of Add() or does it mean, use a diffent type (such as making it IEnumerable<T> (no Add function) and using a private List<T> _myPrivateList ? @RoelvanUden
 
One method you can use, as you described, is to store the List in a private field and have the property do a AsEnumerator on the list. Then you can just loop through it, but you also lose int indexers etc.
 
Thank you @Roel
 
@MyDaftQuestions Why is .Add() an issue?
 
Good bye everyone
 
At least he said goodbye @Sippy :-P
 
9:16 AM
Yeah I guess lol
Can't see why .Add() is an issue personally
Lots of fucking about for no reason.
 
Could be that he wants to be in charge of the list.
Especially in libraries for third party consuming giving control away is a nogo
 
@Gotalove yw
 
what? @shakthi
 
i was late on that one
 
@RoelvanUden true
 
9:28 AM
you're welcome == yw
 
aah cool
 
9:44 AM
mornin
 
10:25 AM
morning Dion
 
11:04 AM
There's also .AsReadOnly() for list
which will throw an exception if you try to add shit to it
 
ooh, that's handy. adds to snippets
 
You know why I would like to like PowerShell, but just can't?
 
11:42 AM
@TomW This is like saying there are many ways of calling a method in C#. You can call the method directly. You can use a lambda expression to call it. You can set it into a delegate and call that directly,or call Delegate.Invoke. You can use reflection to get a MethodInfo and call Invoke() on it, or call InvokeMember() on the Type object.
 
"You can use a lambda expression to call it." No, lambdas define it
 
var myLambda = () => MyMethod();
myLambda();
(Is what I had in mind)
 
that's calling it directly
 
No, it's wrapping it in a lambda that will later call it when that Lambda is invoked.
 
once you actually make it compile :)
 
11:45 AM
Same as wrapping it in a Delegate.
@KendallFrey Ha! Syntax is for the weak!
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan It's wrapping nothing in a lambda
a lambda is just a way of defining a delegate
 
I understand none of this.
 
OK, so there is an unspoken addition to my complaint:
 
Worrying.
 
...and the documentation is bad at explaining why you'd want each one
 
11:46 AM
@KendallFrey True, but they're two distinct features in C#, that achieve the same thing.
 
"distinct" is arguable
 
@TomW Now that is a claim I can stand behind.
Whenever I try to do some PowerShell I find myself stuck with badly documented scriptlets and commands that don't really accept the inputs I think they do.
 
I like it as a convenient environment for accessing .net types for single tasks
but the syntax is just idiosyncratic enough to be annoying
 
I did some Exchange 2010 powershell (called from C#, since there are some Exchange APIs only available to PowerShell) and discovered the docs had several flat-out errors about script inputs and parameters.
@TomW I usually find myself writing simple console apps or using LinqPad instead.
 
yeah, console app just seems like too much messing around
when scriptable C# is mainstream I'll probably use that
 
11:52 AM
scriptcs seems to work.
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan is it related to "Anonymous" in any way ?
 
Arg, deleting a line of code that was not checked in can bite you in the ass.
 
12:17 PM
Hey guys, question, how is caching handled in VS, especially considering Resources?
 
@shakthi Lambas are a syntax for defining anonymous methods, yes.
 
12:33 PM
I have copied some content from a website, it includes a ‘ - When I paste it into my word editor, it doesn't show ‘, instead it shows an A (with a circle above it) and then the TM logo
I want to write a program whcih can detect this 'oddity' but no idea what to research to write the code
 
you're copying unicode backticks I think
 
Any ideas what words I need to query Google with?
backticks?
do all websites use 1 type of unicode or does it depend on browser?
 
it uses whatever it wants i believe
its whether or not you have the code page installed on your machine
 
I see... Do you know if there is a 'safe' unicode for English (UTF8/UTF16) or do they all have their strengths and weaknesses
 
Uhm, what is this question for?
 
12:43 PM
@RoelvanUden Detective Roel has discovered a clue!
Your team gains +5 insight for 10 minutes.
 
unicode is always unicode
A code page is a table of values that describes the character set for encoding a particular language. The term code page originated from IBM's EBCDIC-based mainframe systems, but many vendors use this term including Microsoft, SAP, and Oracle Corporation. Vendors often allocate their own code page number to a character encoding, even if it is better known by another name (for example UTF-8 character encoding has code page numbers 1208 at IBM, 65001 at Microsoft, 4110 at SAP). == The code page numbering system == IBM introduced the concept of systematically assigning a small, but globally unique...
 
OK... I need to do more research on this. Thank you all :)
 
i know nothing about web, and mostly nothing about managing code pages, so @RoelvanUden probably can help you out more than i can
@MyDaftQuestions what language are you running Windows in?
and what browser, and what text editor
 
have anyone thought about setting up something new ?
a start up software company ?
 
I do a lot of SEO work - my program reads the content of my website and strips out all the HTML and leaves only the content (the copy). It allows us to see what the text says without all the graphics etc. This is shown in a WPF textblock
The issue is, on some sites they use ‘ instead of ' and it renders "incorrectly"
 

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