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12:25 AM
I think I figured it out
 
12:37 AM
cbg
 
cbg @JGreenwell
 
1:09 AM
can someone approve this topic deletion so we can get rid of the last of the plagiarized content?
 
done!
 
thank you sir, you are a gentleman and a scholar
 
 
3 hours later…
3:49 AM
lol at windows update
I went to bed at 94 %...
then woke up now
99 %
 
DSM
Mine took about an hour and a half, all told.
 
mine has been 5+ hours at since 94 % >
 
DSM
That.. doesn't sound right.
See, this is my problem with Windows. When something goes wrong I have no idea what to do.
 
usually you go onto windows forums to go through a standard checklist with a MS employee only to get the brush off when all the standard stuff fails - and hope some other windows dev sees your plight and answers with a solution
or start messing with powershell and the registry and pray you don't burn the whole system
or re-install....typically re-install
and restart
 
4:20 AM
late evening cbg
 
hey idjaw
 
hey hey
what's going on
 
marking plagiarizers on SOD
same old, getting old
but in good news: have Charazard and Bulbasaur - just have to find Squirrtle
those bloody turtles are tricky
 
I found four squirtles. I got two of them
I had a cp88 get away
it was annoying
 
so I just need to go to Canada?
 
4:27 AM
yes
you have free lodging here
we can hunt together. It's cool
 
I haven't hunted in like 3 years (though I assume you meant Pokemon)
 
Yes. But I'm game for both.
yolo and all that
 
my wife actually wants to visit Canada, definitely in the works after a year (just getting adjunct and other teaching positions from Masters and dealing with PhD applications makes travel hard to plan atm)
 
awesome. Do you know where about you would be interested in going?
 
not sure exactly as I have friends (3 Marine buddies who married Canadian women and moved up there) in Ontario - Toronto, Petersburg, and Kingston...or wait the last one just moved but that basic area
But she has quite a few Canadian friends and I completely forget where they live
Your people love to Summer in good ol'Florida after all ;)
How did your demo go? @idjaw
 
 
2 hours later…
6:48 AM
stuck at 99 %, tried everything, then windows said updates installed so rebooted :D
now windows 7 update works but no windows 10 and
windows 10 update doesn't work any logner
can't understand wtf people are smoking if they think this is easier than linux
ah "windows update works" in a sense that for the first time in 2 years it actually stopped looking for new updates and said what updates it is going to install.
not that it can download them ...
 
7:08 AM
ew winows
 
7:28 AM
expresses his dislike of Windows
 
7:51 AM
Morning cbg.
 
8:10 AM
@Withnail What are the gold badges in SO that can be won multiple times?
 
Ehh, I'm not sure, really.
I don't really know how the badges work.
 
Okay
@MartijnPieters What are the gold badges in SO that can be won multiple times?
 
Doing so gives me Socratic, Stellar Question, Great Question, Famous Question, Great Answer, Populist, Reversal and Publicist.
 
@MartijnPieters Thank you.
 
nice
windows 10 upgrade ruined my windows 7 installation completely.
now I have neither working windows 10 nor windows 7
Microsoft FFS
 
8:24 AM
@Ralf17 Dude, please don't ping random people with your question. It's rude and unnecessary. If you're going to ask an (off-topic) question then just ask, and if someone reads it and chooses to answer then they can do.
 
I think Steward can also be obtained multiple times, I'm including Steward in my list.
 
notably, I've not even installed anything in particular on this system.
 
I have images of you shotgunning your computer Antti
 
I do not own a gun :(
@Ralf17 stackoverflow.com/help/badges click on the badge, it is using a technology called "hyperlink" that will redirect you to another page that contains more information. You can use "back"-button on your browser to return back to that list.
or alternatively you can click on the other "hyperlink" that says "Badges"
@Ralf17 most notably, each help text for a badge explicitly says if it can be awarded multiple times.
@Ralf17 if not, then assume it is not awarded multiple times
@Ralf17 ok?
 
@MartijnPieters Can I infer from the opinion-question hold of my userdict/attributes question that either approach is a reasonable opinion to have?
 
8:29 AM
@AnttiHaapala Yup, I'm okay. I'm checking them right now.
 
@MartijnPieters Really I'm interested in standard practice rather than a normative claim
 
@Hatshepsut first of all, never use UserDict for anything.
it is just confusing. Remnant from Python 1, where you couldn't subclass a dict.
the next question is "is your data a dictionary or an instance of a specific object class"...
this is not binary, but 50 shades of grey in between.
 
@AnttiHaapala The basic idea of my situation is I have a bunch of files with data about persons, and I want to upload them into mongodb. So I'm inclined to use a Person class, with either person['name'] or person.name, birthdate...
 
please don't use both, at the same time, it gets very confusing
 
@AnttiHaapala My inclination is to subclass dict because then I can iterate over the keys and db.update()
 
8:35 AM
Cbg
 
Python motto is TOOOWTDI
there is only obvious way to do it
now you have 2 ways: item access and attribute access
 
You can make your class iterablem rather than subclassing dict. That's a long way round to get the __iter__ and next methods.
 
@Withnail no, that's a different thing. The db.update() needs a Mapping
@Withnail and the method is __next__
 
Noted, thanks!
 
@AnttiHaapala from my pov the obvious way is subclassing dict - it just seems so close to mongo's structure from the get-go -- no?
 
8:40 AM
well, you can do that.
 
@antti but?
 
ahha
it is McAfee Virus that ruined my windows
 
That McAfee bloatware was the most convincing argument to nuke the preinstalled Win 10 from my new notebook and reinstall from scratch.
Now I fail to get all the drivers though... :-/
 
just stop using windows, ok
I'd be happier if no one used windows
who'd make your shitty games only run on windows if no one used it.
this system doesn't give any diagnostics at all
I just go online and read things like "run these 70000 regsvr32 commands to register some DLLs, cross fingers, jump around the room with pogo stick and drink sour milk, and it should work"
@ByteCommander that CrapAfee bloatware took 5 hours away from me trying to install windows 10.
so I guess I cannot do it in time now.
been fixing update problems for 3 days now
 
Well, I totally agree with you there, that's why I'm on Ubuntu. But there are as you say those two or three games I play that run on Windows which is its only reason to survive on my notebook anyway.
 
8:56 AM
@ByteCommander specifically the problem on windows 7 is that if you have CrapAfee, then some windows that use some html layout then do not work at all
this includes the windows 10 update tool window, and skype login window.
 
@AnttiHaapala do you foresee a problem with subclassing dict for the purpose i described?
 
it is not a clean method. I prefer to use objects with attributes and their persistence is the problem of the persistence layer
this is why it was closed, primarily opinion based, I do not have any specific case to prove why my way is better. It is just my way.
 
9:12 AM
@AnttiHaapala ok that sounds good. then i just write db.update(vars(person)), yes?
 
well something like that, but I'd really not use vars() either :d
because there might be transient data in a Person as well.
 
@AnttiHaapala how come?
@AnttiHaapala like data that's just for processing and not supposed to go into the db?
 
yes
not saying this is in your case
@Hatshepsut though,
for some ideas
 
9:29 AM
Cabbage. I just did my first Mjölnir-wielding dupe close: stackoverflow.com/questions/38671876/…
 
congrats
 
Thanks, Antti. It's a bit intimidating to CV all by yourself, but at least that one was a pretty clear dupe. And I left the OP a comment about mmap, so hopefully they won't be too pissed off that I closed their question. :)
 
windows update. just. does. not. work.
 
Are you still updating Win 7?
 
ok I totally give up
@PM2Ring yes but not successful
I got the win10 install its shit somewhere,
but I couldn't boot the windows 10 installation entry
now it says "Launch Startup Repair (recommended) " or "Start Windows Normally"
launch startup repair then means: "format the hard disk and preload some asus shit there
lets see if ubuntu still works
at least I have windows 7
f*ck you microsoft
windows "anti"virus programs are the biggest virions, after windows itself.
of course some microsoft apologist would say that "why do you complain when microsoft was going to give this update to you 'for free'"
lol modern times
 
10:00 AM
hello
one library name is collading with my models name
 
change it
@eddwinpaz change its name.....
 
the models name?
wow..
 
yes. because you can't change the lib's name
 
from suds.client import Client
my model is named Client
 
or use Alias.
 
10:03 AM
@AnttiHaapala i would like to be able to make these decisions more confidently - is there a book you'd recommend on this sort of design question?
 
from suds.client import Client as sudsClient
 
I do not really know any good book in Python
I've not read books about Python
 
@eddwinpaz is it ok now?
@AnttiHaapala so do i . i just read the official docs.
 
that is not to say I am opposed to books, a good book is a good book.
And a bad book is a waste of time :D
 
@Hatshepsut Your question lacks detail; both options are reasonable depending on what you are doing in the rest of your code.
 
10:08 AM
@MartijnPieters thanks - antti helped me answer many of my questions
 
hmm bugs.python.org/issue27639 UserList is broken with slices.
 
@MartijnPieters in short, I'm reading several data files to get data about each of many Persons, then running db.update() on the person - what i'm not thinking clearly on is on which factors does it depend
 
@AnttiHaapala gah, they forgot to port __getslice__ / __setslice__ / __delslice__?
 
not surprising
 
oh sorry, i just read the point in the rules that says don't do @
 
10:18 AM
in related news, no one is reviewing perf patches
@Hatshepsut @ means reply or that you're addressing someone specifically because of a prior conversation or something...
 
mmmok
 
10:49 AM
cabbage!
 
bananas
 
11:04 AM
@idjaw sounds like me :D
It seems I never upgraded to Windows 10 for free...
 
11:17 AM
wat, IOC has "honorary members" and a "honour member"
what is the distinction
 
12:01 PM
 
12:23 PM
@idhaw - Thanks for pointing in right direction — Dinesh Pundkar 8 mins ago
A for effort, I guess...
But who's idhaw? :P
 
that's your evil twin Wadhi
or perhaps the nice twin?:D
 
no fair!
Don't edit the comment before I can mock it :-(
 
hehe
@AnttiHaapala That's impossible, he's still locked.....nevermind
 
Umm... must be homework Saturday...
 
12:26 PM
*hmm mistyped Wahdi there :D
 
@AnttiHaapala yes... but I didn't have the heart to point it out because I'd probably have done it as well... :)
 
@JonClements Yeah. I'm so tempted to post a one-liner for that NRIC question...
 
@PM2Ring I'd written one and then thought "nah... can't be that nasty on a beautiful day like today" :)
 
no. NO NO NO
someone requested topic "websockets" in docs
 
@PM2Ring to be fair - they did make an attempt at taking on the comment about validation and having a stab at implementing it... so they're not the usual standard of student often encountered...
 
12:28 PM
16

Websockets (topic request)

requested by pylang 1k
 
what is happening here. Maybe it's too early for me...I just woke up...but I just don't know what to do with that
 
@JonClements Agreed. The kid is obviously trying to do the right thing. He doesn't want to be spoon-fed. But it's a bit painful watching him flail around like that.
 
7

Cross-platform (topic request)

For things that are different when running in Windows, Mac or Linux.
requested by solarc 2.9k
 
@AnttiHaapala dismissed.
 
@MartijnPieters also "xdgboost" or something like that :D
 
12:34 PM
@AnttiHaapala gone.
 
0
score
1
1 example
1 contributors
lol, the first example <3
map
 
@PM2Ring Plus... the name rightovers made me chuckle :p
 
how does that ^ even come to that conclusion?
 
@AnttiHaapala wow, how did they manage to make the list comp slower than the plain for loop too?
 
@JonClements Me too. With naming skills like that he could go far. :) Pity his algorithm sucks.
 
12:38 PM
@MartijnPieters I am pretty sure they're testing build function :D
@MartijnPieters as if lower() for 1M strings would take nanoseconds
 
@PM2Ring bah... looks like I had typed up: 'ABCDEFGHIZJ'[11 - (sum(int(c) * m for c, m in zip('9300007',[2,7,6,5,4,3,2])) % 11) - 1]
 
@AnttiHaapala yup, downvoted rather than outright deletion, but perhaps that's the best way to go there.
 
@PM2Ring and this guy took suggestions on board as well - seems to be a mixed bag today
 
@MartijnPieters that is utter bs, just tested with 3 items in oldlist, and for loop is slowest
ah sorry map is slower for 3 items slightly
 
@AnttiHaapala exactly; in Python 2 it would be map(), then list comp, then for in terms of speed.
 
12:45 PM
at 9ish strings, list(map()) is faster than for loop on python 3
 
@JonClements NRIC guy has gone quiet. Perhaps he's trying to understand our suggestions. Or he's given up because it's too hard. Maybe I will post my code... I won't post a one-liner, but I guess using a gen exp with zip will make it pretty obvious if he's tempted to hand it in as his own work.
 
though the topic is rather ok as such...
 
Because map() runs the loop in C. List comp and for run the loop in bytecode. for then looses because it has to do a append attribute lookup each iteration, plus a method call.
 
if we remove the example, topic's gone
 
@PM2Ring I was contemplating the same but you go for it... it might help them to have something they can run and check against, but blatantly not their level enough to be acceptable to hand in :)
 
12:47 PM
hmm surprisingly unbound methods are slower in python 3 than with attr/method lookups lookups
def test_comprehension2():
    y = str.lower
    newlist = [y(s) for s in oldlist]
this is the slowest :d
 
that's surprising to me too
 
misread.
y is a closure.
Closures are also dereferenced each time.
 
@AnttiHaapala What's the speed like if you make y a default arg?
 
y is a method-wrapper
 
newlist = [y(s) for y in (str.lower,) for s in oldlist]
 
12:49 PM
@PM2Ring the same I'd say
 
@PM2Ring nothing, that's the same local then.
It doesn't matter if the local was created by assignment in the function body or by the function argument.
 
except of course it can be evaluated once
 
@AnttiHaapala yes, it'll make a smidgen of difference in the repeated calls by timeit().
 
@MartijnPieters But doesn't assigning it in the function body mean that the method lookup is performed on each test_comprehension2 function call? Or is it just treated as a constant?
 
@PM2Ring no, you are right, it'll be looked up each function call.
 
12:51 PM
@PM2Ring it is still slower than the for loop
something really funny about these method-wrappers.
 
But the speed difference is in the comprehension having to dereference the closure each iteration.
 
I guess they first build a bound method or something and then call via it
 
@AnttiHaapala it has nothing to do with method wrappers.
The list comprehension body is executed as a function.
 
@MartijnPieters ahha now I see what you mean :d
 
So any names from the parent scope is a closure.
 
12:52 PM
stupid me
@MartijnPieters but in Python 2 they're not, yet the unbound method is slower than method lookup
 
@AnttiHaapala: another issue with that example: oldlist is not defined. Only old_list is..
 
def test_for():
    newlist = []
    for word in oldlist:
         newlist.append(word.lower())

def test_for2():
    newlist = []
    lower = str.lower
    for word in oldlist:
        newlist.append(lower(word))
rather interesting result, 2.4049949646 vs 3.18321299553
python 2, oldlist = ['ABC', 'DEF', 'GHI'] * 4
@MartijnPieters I guess it is an empty list :d
yep, the one that uses lower = str.lower is 40 % slower on Python 2, without closure.
that is really strange, I didn't quite expect that.
 
Interesting, I can reproduce.
 
>>> str.lower
<method 'lower' of 'str' objects>
need to study the source code
I guess it still binds by name or something
 
@JonClements Done
 
1:06 PM
@MartijnPieters perhaps this:
    func = PyCFunction_NewEx(descr->d_method, self, NULL);
    if (func == NULL)
        return NULL;
    args = PyTuple_GetSlice(args, 1, argc);
    if (args == NULL) {
        Py_DECREF(func);
        return NULL;
    }
    result = PyEval_CallObjectWithKeywords(func, args, kwds);
two new object allocs.
 
Just bought a new Dyson.
First time I've ever been excited for a household item. Does this mean I'm an adult?
 
a boring adult. yes.
:)
it's cool though. I got really excited about a dishwasher I recently purchased
so I'm right there with you
 
@idjaw oooooh sick burn. Excuse me while I leave the house without having to worry about children or whatever.
 
@AnttiHaapala interesting. Sorry, a little low on contiguous time to pursue this.
 
Oh look, I'm going to go drinking all day. Good job I don't have any kids to worry about.
 
1:17 PM
@Ffisegydd what... is ... that...
 
@AnttiHaapala Dyson mate. It cleans stuff using suction.
 
dish washer, vacuum cleaner... boring.
 
"My wife wants a tumble dryer. I remember when she liked wet tumbles..."
 
@Ffisegydd <3 hugs
 
this week I bought a vacuum sealer
that's a cool thing to have.
 
1:20 PM
@AnttiHaapala It's a vacuum cleaner for people who really want a lightsaber.
 
my house actually has a central vacuum system installed. It's pretty awesome.....if it only worked. :P
 
@idjaw was a big hit in low 90s here...
haven't heard about it ever since
 
we bought the house with it installed already. They told us it didn't work
 
when was that installed there?
 
1:23 PM
@PM2Ring Wife: "I used to like wet tumbles... then he started putting cockatiels on his head..."
 
My youngest sister's new house has a central vacuum system. She loves it. But it will be interesting to see how long it takes before it starts leaking. Several of the tech components of the house weren't installed correctly, eg data cabling.
 
@AnttiHaapala I'm not sure actually. I would have to check the history of work done on the place. Gladly the previous owners kept a record of everything they did on the house.
 
@JonClements Those cockatiels just spontaneously decided to mate on my head, they weren't invited. Maybe they like the smell of my shampoo, or something. :)
 
Christ I want a vacuum sealer now, thanks Haapala.
 
@PM2Ring Oh... I suppose that's what you get for using "Head & Shoulders with extract of bird seed" :p
 
1:27 PM
vacuum sealer? Like for freezing meat?
 
Yeah. For sealing food.
 
I would love to get one of those too
We buy a lot in bulk.
It would help
 
@JonClements It was probably the strawberry flavoured conditioner.
 
@PM2Ring I'm starting to wonder if we're getting to know you a little too well :p
 
What a domestic scene in here today.
 
1:29 PM
Umm... could the end of Lucky Number Slevin be reproduced with a vacuum seal thingy? :p
 
@idjaw essential item here, because wife buys dried shrimps, squid and such from Vietnam, can pack into smaller portions, no air and no smell.
next on the list: sous-vide cooker
 
@Antti seen those used on masterchef a few times
 
Can do sous-vide too
Sous-vide (/suːˈviːd/; French for "under vacuum") is a method of cooking in which food is sealed in airtight plastic bags then placed in a water bath or in a temperature-controlled steam environment for longer than normal cooking times (usually 1 to 6 hours, up to 48 or more in some select cases) at an accurately regulated temperature much lower than normally used for cooking, typically around 55 to 60 °C (131 to 140 °F) for meat and higher for vegetables. The intent is to cook the item evenly, ensuring that the inside is properly cooked without overcooking the outside, and retain moisture. �...
(As per Masterchef Jon :D)
Can do a poor man's job using a steamer probably, but would be nice to have the proper temperature controlled version.
 
Although... my George Foreman grill works great :)
 
Yeah GF grills are really useful.
Do a lot of chicken in mine for chicken salads for lunch.
 
1:33 PM
does this qualify as a GF-type grill?
because I have that and I love it
 
Looks like it yeah
 
does that really work?
 
Yeah they're great.
 
W = ?
 
Just throw some steaks/chicken breasts on it and leave them for 5-10 minutes.
 
1:35 PM
I use mine mainly for breakfasts....I make pancakes, bacon, eggs on it
 
Fat drains away so it's a bit healthier and get a nice outer crust from the direct heat.
 
though if I got the sous-vide cooker,
 
One of my friend's larger parrots is named Halley, after the comet; sorry, I forget his species. Halley is rather talkative, and he asks for various foodstuffs by name. Of course, what he wants isn't necessarily what he gets. :) His previous owner (now deceased) gave him icecream as a treat. Unfortunately, parrots are lactose intolerant, and it took Kate quite a while to break Halley's icecream addiction by giving him healthier substitutes.
 
@idjaw the ones we have tend to be angled so all the juice/fat drains away so eggs would be more difficult.
 
@Ffisegydd Mine actually comes with different surfaces...so if I make eggs, it is a completely flat surface which helps
 
1:36 PM
Ah nice. Mine isn't that fancy.
 
then just put some cheap meat in there in the morning, then use a frying pan to sear them
 
I love slow cooking food.
 
^^ YES!!!
 
I use to slow cook the meat for Sunday's roast dinner overnight...
 
Cooking meat overnight is torture!
 
1:37 PM
We typically throw it in the morning for dinner...so when we get home the house smells great
 
@wuggy negative
 
I did that for xmas lunch a few years back, and I spent the whole night failing to sleep because my whole house was full of the smell of roasting venison.
 
Some people like "fresh garden" scent in their places....honestly, I don't mind a spritz of "damn that's good steak" smell.
 
It's torture in the sense that it smells so good and you want it so much, yes.
 
@idjaw yup... I used to love putting a stew on in the morning, getting home to the warmth of the house in the evening (winter time), and the smell of the food... then just make a few dumplings or something and chill out
 
1:38 PM
for some reason @PM2Ring is very silent now :D
@Ffisegydd, @idjaw so how many watts are your grills?
 
@AnttiHaapala No idea. Mine is only a small one made for one-person from when I was a student.
It's about the size of a book, you can fit a steak on it, maybe two.
 
@Antti I'm kinda hoping it's not because he's re-enacting "Hitchcock"'s "The Birds" but with cockatiels
 
there are 10 amp (x 230V) fuse on the line to kitchen here, but some idiot wired all the sockets in the kitchen to exactly 1 fuse.
so cannot use an electric kettle when grilling
 
^^ at my parents place they cannot turn on the microwave and the kettle at the same time
#oldhouseproblems
 
1:43 PM
How did you two end up with the same electrician?
 
ah no, 16
@JonClements this is a condo
 
@AnttiHaapala :) Mum did a lamb roast this afternoon. I can tolerate the smell but I'd prefer to avoid it, when practical.
 
(actually this is not a condo, this is an incorporated limited liability apartment company)
@PM2Ring poor you
 
I may retaliate tomorrow by cooking a pungent vegetarian curry. :)
 
Never been a fan of lamb.
 
1:48 PM
@JonClements I don't have a pet bird. But we do get lots of birds in the yard, including several species of parrot.
 
alright gents....time to go get exhausted outside.
enjoy your saturday
 
I like pretty much all mammal meat that I've eaten. Goat wasn't that good :D
tastes too goaty
 
/me imagines @PM2 singing: "My shampoo brings all the birds to the yard..."
@idjaw bon voyage Cap'n!
 
Lamb isn't as popular as it once was in Australia, but we still do have a rather large sheep population, so it's still fairly common.
Kangaroo is increasing in popularity as a meat for human consumption, but plenty of people aren't keen on eating a national emblem.
 
horse, deer, reindeer, hare, rabbit, moose, sheep, goat, domestic pig and wild boar, cattle, buffalo, brown bear ... is that really all?
I've yet to eat kangaroo, even though you can buy it frozen in the supermarket here.
 
1:53 PM
@AnttiHaapala it's okay - not a must rush out and get again though...
 
@JonClements don't worry, not keen on trying puppy meat :D
 
wipes sweat from brow
 
hmm prolly eaten different kinds of deer and also both European and mountain hare
 
No Mans Sky in 13 days.
 
2:38 PM
cbg all
 
@AnttiHaapala Ever tried Python?
 
@ByteCommander no :(
 
@Ffisegydd the game? i'm a lot disappointed after seeing a gameplay and some reviews. It seems too repetitive, unrealistic. :( i was hoping a different game from how they proclaimed it in the beginning.. :(
 
but I've eaten some other snakes
 
@AnttiHaapala eels are good too. but only some species... :D
 
2:46 PM
I've eaten raw snake bile, that is gross stuff
 
@AnttiHaapala the real question is.. why?? :D is it some type of specialty somewhere?
 
@AnttiHaapala thought you said "snake bite" then... that's something else entirely :)
 
@PaoloCasciello Really? The gameplay looks really good to me. I've heard nothing but good reviews.
 
@PaoloCasciello 'ello stranger - how goes it?
 
@JonClements heya Jon! :) everything good here. :) How's there?
@Ffisegydd well the fact planets are so near it's a bit disturbing for me. creatures looks all the same with some variations. and what you have to do on each planet is... always the same thing. But i don't want to spoiler you. :)
 
2:56 PM
I've watched some of the official gameplay, but not the guy that got an early version.
 
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