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01:00 - 18:0018:00 - 00:00

1:50 AM
@AnttiHaapala your Jinja patch got merged: github.com/mitsuhiko/jinja2/pull/451
Jinja internals are pretty crazy.
 
 
3 hours later…
5:03 AM
cbg
 
 
2 hours later…
7:06 AM
Can we change the contents some variable stored in another.py file ?
Or alternetively, can we use .py file to store data and retrieve later ?
 
You can definitely do the 2nd
For the first, you're being too vague with what you actually mean.
 
What use would it be to store data in a .py file?
(That's not rhetorical, I'm actually asking)
 
I mean to say that suppose we have a data.py while which contains only variables, like dictionaries, integers, etc, now in new file when I import data and change the change the data stored as data.var1 = 10 How can this be reflected in data.py by any means ?
 
It's typical in Flask for your config file @SomeGuy
 
Ah
 
7:13 AM
Actually there was a question on this , I generally recommend using Pickle but just thinking if there is some way out ?
 
@anmol_uppal with great difficulty.
 
ok then it is not preferable Thanks :)
 
You'd have to literally overwrite the file by opening it and writing to it.
 
ok , so I need to change the data by string manipulation, write it aagain ? right ?
 
Yeah
 
7:20 AM
Cbg
 
Cabbage
 
@RobertGrant Have you started working through Data Science from Scratch yet?
 
Not yet
Been rather busy :)
Have you got anywhere with it?
 
No, haha
I'm going to look through some of it today
Also started Harvard's Stat 110 course if you're interested
 
7:35 AM
Wow, really?
How much did that cost, if you don't mind me asking?
 
I don't pay for my education :P
@RobertGrant Let me know if you take it too. We could be study partners :p
 
Blimey, that's cool
 
I love the internet :D
Harvard has a few Machine Learning courses that are supposedly really good too. So does CalTech
 
That's awesome
 
the Internet? Is that a new thing? Can I join it :p
cbg @IanClark
 
7:46 AM
Cbg @Jon :D
new font?
 
Font seems different in chat, but just noticed it's screwed up on Amazon for me too, so might just be my Chrome
 
In 2013, nine babies born in the UK were named Cheese. (From: http://www.amazon.co.uk/411-Facts-Knock-You-Sideways/dp/0571317774/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1413880841&sr=1-1&keywords=1411)
that's parents with a cruel sense of humour
 
Cabbage!
@JonClements Thank you world.
 
cabbage
 
7:54 AM
heck - if you hadn't killed yourself out of embarrassment - you'd deed-poll your name at 18 anyway
cbg @Jerry - how ya been?
 
It doesn't even shorten to a decent name
Chee?
 
@JonClements Good in general. Tired otherwise. Considering taking some big vacations
been lurking here lately :s
 
I'm finding I'm the opposite - I do better having slightly less intense work times and shorter holidays
If I have a long holiday then it doesn't take me any longer to stop feeling rested when I get back to work :)
 
well - I've booked a cruise so that's good
 
yea, my 'big vacations' are maybe one week long or two :P
I doubt I'll make them longer
 
8:00 AM
Oh okay, yeah
 
this time I might actually bother getting around to it
 
@JonClements where to?
 
user4433485
Someone here from Poland?
 
user4433485
Cbg all
 
@Katherina cabbaggio
 
user4433485
8:01 AM
=D
 
@RobertGrant gone for a Mediterranean one
13 nights - should be nice
 
Nice
Yeah, very cool
Does it have wifi? :)
 
um.... that's a good point
Kinda hoping for £4k I'd have some internet access
mind you - I'll have my mobile with me anyway... so
I might want to double check roaming charges though
 
Just buy the new 3ds and relax :)
Or, you know. Books.
(Slightly judgmental there - I was more aiming that at my own brain)
 
lol
or just buy a kindle :)
Right - gonna have a shower and get dressed, rbrb for a bit
 
8:16 AM
After my exams end, I'm going for a vacation with family and books
No internet
It's going to be great
 
EuroPython 2015 will be my vacation. :D
 
@SomeGuy nice
As in the stats exams?
 
Na, my college stuff
 
Ah :)
 
The Stat 110 course is something I'll be taking during the summer break (and now, during my college exams)
 
8:20 AM
It says you need some form of calculus as a prereq, and I haven't done that for 15 years
diff n^2 -> 2n, I remember that
And int 2n -> n^2+c
 
Haha
 
But that's about it
 
You can brush up on Khan Academy or something
 
Yeah :) Man I love that it's on YouTube though
 
Since this is self-paced, do it in your own time, learn the pre-reqs as you go if you have to
Yeah, me too! The resources we have these days are incredible
MIT OCW and Open Yale Courses are really great too
 
8:24 AM
There's just not enough time :)
 
Yeah. I'm trying to reserve an hour everyday to learn
 
Hey, I'm included in the Deutsche Telekom 2015 talent management programme, whatever that is
 
Hahaha
 
And the link is German-only
I wonder if I disqualify myself if I email asking for instructions :)
 
Haha
 
8:32 AM
:eek: Telekom :D
They're doing Python? :D
 
Nah, well I'm not
If I ever get senior enough I'll make it happen :D
 
Nice :D
 
Whenever somebody sends a character that can't be decoded, my Twitch BOT dies... How can I keep that from happening?
 
If anyone is familiar with German employment, what's a "tariff-free" (Tariffreie Angestellte) employee?
 
I tried using continue when a UnicodeDecodeError came up, but that didn't fix it.
 
8:47 AM
@RobertGrant Someone who's not employed under a tariff. Which is pretty much commonplace in Germany in IT.
Telekom is an edge case as an ex-state owned company that's probably why it's coming up
 
What's a tariff?
 
Wikipedia says "Collective Agreement", translation site says "[pay scale agreed to by the trade unions]"
 
Aaah thanks
I'm employed by a subsidiary in another country, so probably not then :)
Pay scale agreed by my line manager's manager and himself
 
Haha. I don't know if the UK even has a union system like that
 
Not for tech employees
 
8:58 AM
Never mind.. I fixed it by not print()ing the messages.
 
Tech has a sometimes-crowd-enforced quota system, for customer-facing companies, but nothing in law yet
But for more entrenched industries there are unions. E.g. doctors
The forgotten downtrodden
 
9:17 AM
Apparently HamsterJS is broken in the latest Chrome. If anyone uses that, you might want to test :)
 
anyone knows about MATLAB
i've a question about it
 
9:54 AM
No. This is the Python room.
 
 
2 hours later…
11:38 AM
@Ffisegydd now trying to use d3.extent instead of a normal range for a scale's domain. Getting there slowly!
 
Yeah stuff like that makes it so beautiful and easy.
 
I started off with a list of dates, and then did a range based on the index and a custom scale that converted the index back to the original date, but this is much better
Well, it will be when it works. It was about 11pm when I started it, and I did not finish
My ideal visualisation is basically this, but with multiple, stacked areas
But I'm trying to figure out how to change my thing rather than just pasting that example and then fiddling with it
I'm thinking to render multiple I should pick an ordering for my data sets, and the "highest" one in the graph basically gets all the values summed, plus its own values, then the next one gets all the values apart from the top one's, plus its own, etc etc. But I'll investigate.
 
It’s really quiet in here today…
 
11:54 AM
Doing my best :)
 
A.K.A. just talking to yourself
 
Yes is it Rob
 
12:08 PM
We could always drop back to petty arguments about frameworks if we're bored...?
 
Spoken like an Angular dev
 
You take that back!
 
user559633
Isn't Angular deprecated by React anyway?
 
And by Angular 2
I had a beer with some Angular devs on Friday and they're pretty annoyed about that :)
 
user559633
12:24 PM
@RobertGrant Heh. I love front end dev complaints. The complaints are always so adorable. "Yeah, and then the systems guy said he didn't want to install the Ruby/Nodejs rube-goldberg machine to compile my HTML."
 
Yeah, that whole thing is bizarre to me
Especially for dev
 
user559633
Eh, it's not bizarre to me. Front end people like to pretend that they're writing big-boy-pants code.
 
So my write-save-refresh cycle for javascript is now write-save-compile-wait-wait-wait-refresh-swear-write...
 
morning everyone
anyone here use pybluez? There doesn't seem to be much documentation
 
@corvid cbg
 
user559633
12:27 PM
Not me. I pen elegant JavaScript/ECMAScript that works efficiently the first time. Often, even non-technical users will view source and begin softly sobbing at the beauty of the machine I have invented. Roses are often thrown at my feet when I swagger down the halls of conferences.
 
@RobertGrant Your workflow seems to be set up incorrectly then. My stuff is blazing fast :P
 
@wonderb0lt I've only actually used it once, and I was using someone else's setup
 
I use Browserify sometimes, and it's perfectly fine. There's no wait period
 
This was Grunt I think
 
I prefer Gulp
That's not what she said?
 
user559633
12:30 PM
@SomeGuy No, it's likely not.
 
gulp ftw (back to arguments about frameworks)
 
But I mean...how many ways are there to set up a content compilation pipeline?
 
!!xkcd standards
Oh, wait, you guys don't have Caprica
Whoops
 
user559633
Maybe you guys were having trouble with your JavaScript tools because you weren't feeding it enough memes while chortling over programming jokes you do't understand.
 
user559633
XKCD is bad. You should feel bad. (plz work now js stack)
 
12:31 PM
@tristan what are you trying to do with js?
 
That moment when you tilt your notebook’s monitor to fix the reflection on your external monitor… *sigh*
 
user559633
@corvid I don't try. I do.
 
alright yoda
 
user559633
oh wait, that doesn't even make sense.
 
I was about to say that.
 
user559633
12:33 PM
:) Woke up too early
 
♭♩ ♯♪ woke up too early ... got yourself a gun ♫ ♬
 
user559633
@offby1 i applaud the effort
 
1:13 PM
stupid validation.
 
I'm dabbling with Android apps today. It's a bit of culture shock, since I'm used to "There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it", and meanwhile I'm looking at 20 apparently equally valid approaches to doing network operations
I just know I'll pick the wrong one and end up consuming a couple gigs of data on my first "hello world" packet
 
I'd use the built in stuff, unless you're using the same protocol elsewhere (e.g. with XMPP)
 
If you want push, use Google’s cloud thingy
 
Google Cloud Thingy does have the most upvotes...
 
It’s the closest thing you get to “built-in”
 
1:25 PM
Yeah sorry that's what I meant by built in
 
I don't even know if I want push. I'm trying to do a turn-based multiplayer game. My current dev plan is "reverse-engineer whatever Words With Friends is doing"
They have a good mix of "less than a minute latency when both users are actively playing" and "doesn't consume my whole data plan while idle"
 
Google’s cloud thingy is always running, there’s no overhead if you use it or not
 
Ooh, enticing.
 
It’s essentially always listening for generic messages; and if your app registers a handler, then it knows how to handle those and directs the messages to your app.
So you’re using the same “channel” like gmail etc.
 
1:41 PM
It's a single tcp connection that streams notifications from all the apps that use it
 
That sounds pretty neat.
 
Hm. Something wrong with my D3 scaling, methinks: M1325368800000,0.15L1328047200000,0.2L1330552800000,0.1L1333231200000,0.4L13358‌​23200000,1.25L1338501600000,0.6
 
Brilliant. The nice thing about mobile development is that Apple and Google have a vested interest in you not clogging up their app stores with terrible products. So they put in a little extra effort for things like this :-)
 
All notifications for android/apple/ms/whatever work the same way
I guess blackberry push does as well, from way back when
 
"We know you'll screw up your program if you have to handle network comms yourself, so just take this. We made a cloud system for you."
 
1:43 PM
NetworkOnMainThreadException
oh how I hated it
 
Does anyone know if there's a way to stick my own code into the Gtk main loop? I need to check if any text is selected in a GtkTextView and I can't seem to find anything about this anywhere :P
 
@Kevin it's all async, obv, so you basically register a callback to handle a type of notification that you receive
 
Have they fixed async stuff as well by now? Back in the day all the async stuff was super fragile
 
I assume so
 
@RobertGrant “basically” means explicitely implementing a stupid interface and registering the type somewhere… because Java.
 
1:46 PM
Yeah true
 
@poke You can do anonymous classes. And in Java 8 even lambdas! :P
 
But it's not hard, just a bit boilerplatey
(On interfaces: you still have to implement dunders in python, they're just implicit rather than explicit)
 
@wonderb0lt You still need a full type :P
 
@wonderb0lt is java 8 available on android devices yet?
 
1:50 PM
Ah okay
 
@RPiAwesomeness How about idle_add(callback)
 
.oO(careful don't out yourself as a java dev)
 
@Kevin Hadn't heard of that, thanks :) I'll look into this.
 
2:04 PM
Continuing my RABBIT adventures from this weekend. If I navigate to chat.stackoverflow.com/ws-auth in my browser and get "Page not found", does that indicate that this answer no longer reflects the current chat API? Or am I just doing it wrong?
Not sure which of "the chat dev team, fickle as they are, modified the API without telling anyone" or "I'm incompetent" is more likely.
 
@Kevin I didn’t look into the GitHub issue yet, so it might a problem on my side, not sure.
 
the ws-auth URL doesn't seem to respond to websocket.org/echo.html either, so I'm inclined to blame SO
 
can I change the highlight color of my vim graphic mode?
 
Heh, I interpreted the "HMM" in that title as the word rather than an acronym.
Machine learning? Hmm... Python.
 
@Kevin mhhh… donuts?
 
@Nakkini Please read sopython.com/pages/chatroom - especially "Do not link your recently posted questions in the room".
 
Cabbage
 
Cabbage!
 
I think we may have to nail down a definition for "recently" at some point.
 
2:21 PM
Eh, it's a hit and run. Recent doesn't come into it.
 
I don’t think almost a week is “recently”; but I do think that the bounty should already give it enough attention, and more importantly that the way the request to look at it was done here in chat is not okay.
 
Wrong quoted text, apologies. Should have been "You should never simply link your question into the chat room without staying to discuss it and should usually only link it when having been asked by others".
 
Ok, got it.
 
I bid you all rhubarb
 
Is the SO chat separate from the rest of SE Chat? I've starred the room as favorite, but don't automatically rejoin and none of the other rooms I'm in show up
 
2:27 PM
If we ever get RABBIT to do administrative work for us, we'll need to either pick a static definition of "recent", or develop a sophisticated neural network that can determine the appropriateness of linked questions at a human-level accuracy. Whichever is easier.
 
@RPiAwesomeness yes
 
Ah. Well, that's mildly annoying :P
 
^ agreed. I hate that.
 
This is the first time I've seen the "adjacent string constants run together" behavior in the wild.
 
@Kevin I’ll just call nibada.ShouldITellTheUserNotToPostThisQuestion(questionId) and delegate the problem.
 
2:31 PM
Last time we consulted Ffisegydd on the matter, he said to just check the date :-p
 
@Kevin wow
@Kevin He can do that then :P
It won’t be my problem :D
 
@ZeroPiraeus yes but i set a bounty of 100 to it
 
Ooh - static date AND bounty?
 
@RobertGrant no, my question is different
 
@Kevin "Adjacent string constants run together in the wild" sounds like something on xkcd
 
2:40 PM
Not to "fight in front of the kids", but... I suppose I'm neutral to users coming in and saying "hey, check out my bountied question" since it's such a rare occurrence.
 
Or directed by a geeky Sean Penn
 
@RobertGrant Yeah, I couldn't think of a non-weird way to word that.
 
@Nakkini Then you should wait a little while and see whether the bounty has the desired effect. Dumping question links in here without prior discussion is contrary to the room etiquette described in the link I gave you.
 
@ZeroPiraeus ok thank you
 
(on the other hand, maybe my viewpoint is inconsistent, because shouldn't we treat all posts of this type the same way, regardless of frequency? I don't want to give the impression that users with more reputation to burn get special treatment)
 
2:58 PM
Nicely done there @Kevin. "I consulted with Ffisegydd and he said X so we'll let him deal with it. Swish."
 
cabbage
 
:-)
 
Oh I can say who I turned down now (as @davidism asked last week).
 
Related to this question, have we got a good canonical post explaining why you shouldn't use parentheses when registering a callback function? Ex. why w.bind("click", f) works and w.bind("click", f(1,2)) doesn't
 
It was GCHQ aka the "British NSA."
 
3:03 PM
Because it's a pain in the butt trying to describe the proper use of lambdas, within the tiny confines of the comment box
 
@Ffisegydd B-b-but you could have been Snowden Mk II !!!
 
Grumble grumble, statically typed languages don't have to put up with this...
 
@Zero hah. Let's say that my views on Snowden and Wikileaks in general are probably best left unspoken.
 
@Ffisegydd Right, right, not safe to speak here, gotcha ;-)
 
speaking into his lapel: The eagle has left the nest. The heavy flag flaps not at night. Walla Walla, Washington.
 
3:06 PM
I turned them down because, to work there, you have to go through a 4 month vetting process. I have no doubts I would pass this process, but I can't wait 4 months to start work. I actually applied there back in Jan, hoping that I could interview then and have finished the process by about now. Unfortunately they only decided to interview me in April, and I didn't get the offer until mid-May.
@Zero my views aren't controversial with respect to the government, but they may be controversial with respect to others in this room :)
 
@Ffisegydd my company is having that problem in reverse: we want to hire new grads from the local universities, but none of them have security clearance, and they can't start the process until they're hired
 
Plus the money wasn't very good, but mainly it was the time issue.
@davidism that sucks. Yeah here you have to go through the process before they'll pay you etc. I actually have to get a lower level of clearance for the data science job I was offered, but that only takes 6 weeks or so, so it's not as bad.
 
7 minutes to download 3.7 GB. Works for me.
 
3:22 PM
guys, this library is annoyingly inconsistent :|
 
Is it at least consistently inconsistent?
 
No, which makes is consistently annoying.
 
it's not even consistent in how frustrating it is :|
I blame node, because the python version is completely fine
 
Makes perfect sense.
 
Maybe that's that's Python's fault. It's just a glorious panacea.
"Come to me APIs, and be healed"
 
3:27 PM
I would expect an API to return some json but this one returns some weird modules for some reason. I just want the json.
 
What if you JSONify the modules?
 
Yeah that's what I did, but it looks like there's "unwanted" keys in there, like cls
so it makes me feel like I am not doing it as it's meant to be done
 
In [16]: f = lambda: [True]

In [17]: f() is f()
Out[17]: False
Ugh. Will it always be False?
@doublep that needs more parentheses: list() takes at most 1 argument. Note that the lambda also creates a new list each time. — jonrsharpe 2 mins ago
Phew
 
No? Would it sometimes use the same list as optimisation? Dunno.
 
3:41 PM
That result really surprises me. But why use is anyhow?
oic
 
I like your current avatar @vault
 
Yeah, it's quite good
May 2 at 14:19, by vaultah
user image
This one was the best (imo) ;_;
 
4:13 PM
@Kevin Do you know where I could get a tutorial/explanation of how to use idle_add()? From what I can tell, everything I've tried never gets called.
 
Sorry, can't help you there. I haven't got much experience with gtk.
 
Ah. Okay :(
 
Only reason I was able to suggest idle_add in the first place is because I thought "I wonder if gtk has something like Tkinter.Tk.after_idle..." and it turned up on Google
 
I don't suppose you're doing idle_add(somefunction(some,arguments))? Because that won't work, you'd need to do idle_add(somefunction, some, arguments)
 
4:16 PM
No, I set it up correctly (idle_add(somefunction)). It just isn't getting called ever
 
Mysterious.
 
Indubitably
 
thought I knew what they were asking, then they throw a curveball in the comments
 
I guess every time he wrote "number of seconds" he meant "number of seconds since a particular date other than the Unix epoch"
 
4:31 PM
i know how to find the difference between two dates @MartijnPieters .i am not asking that.thank you anyway — pankar 1 min ago
If this user knows what they are asking, they're not doing a very good job staying on message.
@MartijnPieters this is amusing, but I think we should probably just close the question
 
Pretty sure the question is, "given a datetime YYYY/MM/DD hh:mm:ss, how do I get the datetime YYYY/MM/01 00:00:00?"
With all the timestamp and timedelta stuff being information about his project that we didn't need
In which case the answer is d.replace(day=1, hour=0, minute=0, second=0)
 
Or my answer, d.date().replace(day=1), slightly less typing.
 
Yes, provided he only wants to convert the current time this way.
 
@davidism Final attempt, I gave them the square wheels spiel (X-Y problem).
 
I can't even tell what their responses are trying to say. It's like a second XY problem on top of the immediate problem.
"I need a solution to X, which is my idea of a solution for Y, so I'll ask a question about Z."
 
When would you ever need such a datetime? Unless you're on a different planet with a longer day, at which point Python 5 will probably support other day lengths. — davidism 7 secs ago
 
If by Python 5 you mean Python 2.17
 
heh
I know the answer to this question but there's a high chance of getting a "one more thing..." comment after I hand him the solution
 
user559633
python 2.8...2+8...paul blart mall cop 3 confirmed
 
The perils of helping an OP get their half-finished GUI to a 3/4 finished state.
 
5:00 PM
> Many people believe it’s the statistical programming language R. (We call those people wrong.)
- Data Science from Scratch
I already like this book
 
Oh well, I went for it anyway.
 
Textbook resource request right there.
 
(linked in a comment from vaultah's cvpls)
 
Ibid.
 
Textbook "actively harms readability" edit right there.
 
DSM
Have I mentioned before how little I like Java? Probably I have.
Afternoon-not-morning cabbage for all.
 
Cabbage @DSM
 
user559633
Java rules
 
Textbook introductory message right there.
 
user559633
5:19 PM
 
@davidism yeah I saw :D and in related news, PasteScript got a new version, now supports Python 3
(though in PasteScript it wasn't Bicking who did it)
 
DSM
I wish I could spend days like I used to, solving numerical problems with such speed and elegance that I could hang out on SO.. self.nostalgia += 10
 
5:38 PM
guys ._.
has anyone seen this waffle.io thing? It actually looks pretty cool
 
Hi! Guys
I'm trying to find a way to get ips and host names of all devices connected to my router
This is for security purposes
 
In Python?
 
Yes
 
Because this isn't the security/networking chat :P
Ah ok
 
Where do people usually discuss deprecation candidates (CPython)?
 
5:47 PM
what class router do you you have?
 
irc maybe @vaultah?
 
C class at a guess?
 
This is not working
 
192.168.0.XXX ? or 192.168.1.XXXX?
 
import socket

print [ip for ip in socket.gethostbyname_ex(socket.gethostname())[2] if not ip.startswith("127.")][:1]
192.168.0.XXX
 
5:48 PM
lol 127.0.0.1 is only localhost ... of coarse that wouldnt work
 
I mean some sort of mailing list, like Python-Ideas but not about "possible inclusion into the language"
 
@JoranBeasley If I replace 127 with 192 I still get only this
['127.0.1.1']
Do I have to use Nmap?
 
name = gethostname()  # the name of the local machine
ip = gethostbyname_ex(name)[2]  # the ip address for the name
the ip of the name of the local machine is 127.0.0.1, what other result would you expect?
 
no not really are you on linux I take it?
the 127.0.0.1 address is gonna be no help at all to you
pip install pyping
for i in range(0,255): if pyping("192.168.0.%d"%i).ret_code == 0: print "192.168.0.%d"%i
should work on windows or linux
err pyping.ping
 
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