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11:00 AM
@Zero haha... love the edit title :)
 
Ta :-) Repcapped for today, but it all goes towards a possible silver badge ...
 
@Zero not sure editing your own posts count :(
 
@JonClements No, I mean at this rate there's a possibility of a "Good Answer" badge ...
 
Ahhh...
11 votes left then
 
I don't like how close you are to my rep... I might have to start rep farming.
 
11:02 AM
@Veedrac Ta! Reciprocated :-) Always nice to have a succinct comment thread ...
@Veedrac I wouldn't worry too much - getting to 10K was like pulling teeth (got lucky with two answers yesterday), and I'm likely to take a bit of a holiday.
 
@Zero no!!!!! you need to get to 20k by the end of the year!
 
@JonClements Not bloody likely :-P
 
Now - that's not the attitude to succeed is it? :)
 
I reckon this is the perfect time to stop caring about rep. I'm not fussed about the 15K and 20K privileges, I now have the coveted "k" at the end of my rep next to my avatar, and if I did carry on trying to get more, I'd end up bitter about being unable to catch certain puppies, ninjas etc. :-)
A gold badge, on the other hand ...
 
@Zero yeah... that kinda become my aim after 10k :)
Think I got mine just short of 11k though
 
11:18 AM
@ZeroPiraeus Can never have enough hammerz.
 
Currently a little over half way there (and obviously there'll be a small bump at the next run of the query).
 
How do I find out how much rep I had on a certain day?
 
I would love a Generalist badge, but it's never gonna happen, given what the relevant tags are.
 
Neat
I was on about 7k when I got my gold badge
I remember editing questions to include around that time.
 
That either means you focused more on than me, or I got more accepts (because that's more rep for less upvotes), doesn't it?
 
11:24 AM
Mostly the rep cap
 
@Veedrac you can parse out stackoverflow.com/reputation
 
@Veedrac Hahaha ... I think I did that to get bronze.
@Veedrac Ah, of course ... yesterday is only my sixth repcap.
 
My top two question gave me almost 600 votes at once, there was a lot of hitting the rep cap for that.
I hit my sixth rep cap on my seventh day... those were the times.
What was I thinking?
 
This qualifies for CV, right?
 
Yep
 
11:34 AM
While we're on the subject of close votes:
Been waiting forever for that to come out of the bounty period.
 
Done :)
 
sighs paying invoices... I never like that... :(
 
But giving people invoices make the paying invoices worth it
(cabbage)
 
Oh yes, I like that bit... just don't like this bit :)
cbg :)
 
I think I must be masochistic. Currently missing pointers
 
11:44 AM
@ZeroPiraeus You can flag things on bounty if you want them closed
 
@Veedrac I did actually flag something on bounty in the last few days; not sure whether that was it though. I don't do do often, since "evade closure" is clearly part of the point of bounties (otherwise why disable it?)
 
@Zero check your flag history :)
 
That's quite the flying start :-)
 
Awww... where's puppy on that chart? :(
 
11:48 AM
@ZeroPiraeus I think preventing closure is just so it can't be abused.
@JonClements Hold on
 
Rhubarb, everyone. Gonna check out the regex room.
 
And ... ehh. My flag history is almost entirely consumed by "what have you tried" flags, about which I am somewhat obsessive - not fun hunting anything else down in there.
 
Well... would need to plot it from June 2012 though
Wow... I've been here that long... wtf
 
Time flies when you're having fun ;)
 
11:51 AM
@IntrepidBrit could just be like you - a complete masochistic and I've just enjoyed the pain? :)
@Veedrac lmao :)
I'm very sensitive about a missing leg btw
 
I was only being honest about it
 
@JonClements lmlo surely? ;-P
 
@JonClements Also explains the Python room ;)
 
awww.... good to have a mate @Zero - thank you :)
 
11:54 AM
Welcome @Nikolay :-)
... and cbg @tila :-)
 
cbg!! : )
 
cbg
 
Now ... do I go and buy bread for sausage butty purposes, or accept the inevitable and crash for a bit?
 
crash for a bit
 
Anyway... I feel proud @Veedrac I get my own picture on the chart and not just a line... w00t!
 
11:56 AM
I think you may be right ...
 
"You may be right, I may be crazy, but it just may be a lunatic you're looking for..."
 
Hey, @ZeroPiraeus, you're perfectly well represented.
 
@Zero get some rest so we can talk about you behind your back for a bit :)
 
*whispers rude comments*
 
Yessir! rbrb then ...
 
11:57 AM
@Zero sleep well matey
 
lols softly
 
Zero leaves, Kevin joins... umm... conspiracy? :)
 
Will python someday be as fast as javascript?
 
Pah!
It already is!
 
I deny all allegations that Zero and I are the same person
And that every time you've seen us together before, it's been an elaborate setup with stolen department store mannequins and world-class ventriloquism
 
11:59 AM
 
Neither of which, come to think of it, are necessary in a text-only medium...
 
if The Kevin says it isn't so... then it isn't so... we trust The Kevin
 
I think it's pretty clear that PyPy won.
By a lot.
A friken' factor of 5
 
If I only want a single application to connect to a VPN (OpenVPN is the server in this case) can I just use pyOpenSSL and forego setting up a virtual device (TUN/TAP)?
 
cbg @John
 
12:03 PM
cbg?
 
I guess the question is then, "will CPython someday be as fast as javascript?"
To that question, I can conclusively reply that it is definitely "maybe"
 
Veedrac, so, will python someday used in web browser?
 
definitely maybe to that question, too
 
Brython.
 
12:03 PM
@Kevin That makes no sense; you're comparing an implementation to a language
You probably mean CPython vs V8 or something
 
Can't link as on phone, but Google it
 
@Veedrac Sure.
 
@Ffisegydd Bless you
 
@Veedrac, Is there any posibillity, that python could conquer browsers?
 
@Veedrac, that page is full of internet =).
 
12:07 PM
@NikolayGolub It seems a bit heavy to be good to replace JS
JS is really small, which gives it good warmup times
and startup times
 
@Veedrac, So browser can't hold pypy interpreter in memory? Or what do you mean by heavy startup? compiling into bytecode?
 
@John Not used pyOpenSSL, but would it be the right tool for the job?
 
If you have a webpage with only a couple of buttons with a few lines of callbacks, you don't want to launch PyPy
It's a waste of memory and execution time
 
Couldn't you start up Python just once, when the browser opens?
 
Not if you want to prevent one website hijacking another
Something like Lua would be a way better choice than JavaScript, actually
but legacy... *sigh*
 
12:15 PM
@IntrepidBrit I would assume so since OpenVPN uses OpenSSL for its encryption.
 
We just need processor speed to double a few more times. People won't be terribly concerned that launching pypy is a hundred times slower than launching JS, if it amounts to a microsecond difference
 
But what if I want to run Chrome on an embedded device??
What about that, eh?
Seriously, though, what about asm.js?
 
What about it?
 
What would be your alternative?
asm.py?
That probably wouldn't work with how dynamic Python is.
 
My alternative is to just not have an alternative.
 
12:19 PM
Eh, OK
 
@John Yes it does, but assuming pyOpenSSL does implement all the required criteria I wonder if it would interface with OpenVPN properly. As said, I've not used it so can't really offer more help than that
 
*just as @Kevin turns around thinking the matter is settled, I bring out my iron dagger and swing*
 
dies
4
 
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
The Kevin is immortal!
 
Obviously I am the most honorable!
 
12:23 PM
Even in death the man gets bloody starred.
 
Does anyone want to buy crime scene evid... a nice, unused bloody dagger?
 
Hello, I am communicating from beyond the grave. While I can't physically interact with the world now, I can still lend advice to the living.
So I guess it's pretty much indistinguishable from the way things used to be, in a text only medium. Convenient.
 
I'm not hallucinating! Ghosts aren't real!
 
@Kevin In internet no one knows you are dead.
 
Try not to think what it says about the afterlife, that I took one look at it and immediately jumped back into chat.
Oops. I intended to start working on the "100 consecutive days" badge about a week and a half ago, so I could claim it during the Winter Bash, and potentially get the "got a gold badge during Winter Bash" hat.
I set up my phone's calendar app to remind me, but I guess I didn't notice the notification.
 
12:30 PM
Benjamin Gruenbaum's answer ratio is 49.699497 :O
 
If I start now I'll get it on January 6.
Last year, the bash ended on January 4. Dang, I blew it!
 
I'm going for reviews for the Christmas gold badge
 
Whereas Alex has 62....
95810         Alex Martelli  62.266437
 
Steward in particular I think it is.
 
@Ffisegydd prepare the necromancy ceremony with the rest of the Dark Council...
 
12:34 PM
What do I want more, a cool hat, or to not do any reviews...
 
17 hours ago, by Ffisegydd
We require 7 black candles, a dread altar, and the blood of a php developer.
 
haha
The ceremony only really requires two dollar-store candles and a partridge egg, but it just doesn't have the same ambience without the dribbly black wax and the velvet curtains and ruby inlaid dagger
 
@Kevin well - did you remember to leave your fellow members a partridge egg... we love ya, but we ain't going out to get one especially...
 
I got you a partridge egg.... But I eated it :<
 
12:42 PM
Okay... I have a duck egg... that'll have to do
 
I like SoundCloud but it pi**es me off that I try to browse "Chill" music and it's really, really not.
Their tagging is awful.
 
Actually... having an non-corporeal being present - we could sell tickets for the room to meet The Kevin
I'll keep the egg for lunch
plus, candles are always useful in case of power cuts and stuff...
 
No hurry.
 
and... I've probably put on a pound or two, so my robe doesn't fit any more... always awkward to take those to the tailors
get awkward questions and all that
 
We could always use the blood of a Java developer instead, that will exorcise him from the room forever.
 
12:47 PM
Umm... what if we mixed the blood of a Java and PHP developer? Umm....
 
Messy.
 
Technically yes, but there are many other Kevins like me.
 
We might have to consult the sacred "Scrolls Of Cabbage"
 
Oh **** I really need to update sopython.com
 
You may as well try to destroy an ant hill by squishing individual ants
 
12:47 PM
Someone ping me later tonight to do it.
 
Most interesting part to me: "Once the device was virtually complete, workers began to sign their names and various exhortations onto the device."
Writing your name on a bomb... Kind of macabre.
Although I seem to recall a similar practice in the middle east. Must be traditional.
 
Maybe it was the old joke about "There's a bullet with your name on it" and that if you wrote your name on a bullet you couldn't be shot.
Or something like that ;)
Or maybe the workers were told it was the World's first air delivered Piñata
 
@IntrepidBrit because the bullet would respect you defacing it so much it would refuse to hit its target, if the author of the name even did happen to hand over said bullet to someone about to shoot them?
 
Well, duh
 
@Kevin I'm not sure if you should be proud or not that your pseudo-death has caused 4 stars...
 
12:56 PM
That's like giving a "+1 like" to a facebook post that says your friend is sick.
 
@Kevin yeah... but you're not sick are you? So it's fine... (I think)
 
Hopefully they can use context clues to determine that you don't mean "I like that you're ill now"
 
But what if you do?
How do you express that? Unlikes?
 
You'd have to leave an explanatory comment, I suppose. Not efficient if you have a lot of sick friends to kick while they're down, but that's life.
 
1:01 PM
I'm going to +1 this... but to show how much I don't care, I'm not going to leave a comment to explain how happy I am you are, and hope you die soon...
 
Just another example of Facebook not catering to the overlooked "misanthrope" demographic.
 
why doesn't my razer keyboard work at ubuntu start up? :|
 
Driver problems?
 
@corvid Because it's Ubuntu?
 
it works when I get into ubuntu, just not at the select os screen
 
1:05 PM
Ah
You using GRUB?
 
nah, but was looking into that, I want to restart into windows
 
I guess the select OS screen doesn't have the fancy hardware detection algorithms that Ubuntu has.
I have a similar problem, actually, on my laptop. It doesn't recognize my external keyboard until I log in.
 
it's weird that a Razer Blackwidow worked, but not a razer Deathstalker
 
I'm still going with "driver problems"
Check your driver list. I'm assuming such a thing exists.
 
yeah, just saying Razer is usually very windows-oriented because it's a "gaming keyboard"
 
1:09 PM
Does it work before GRUB?
 
As in, on the BIOS screen?
 
Yeah
 
dunno, I will try that when I get home to other computer
 
Someone else also mentioned looking for a "legacy" option
 
1:33 PM
Lovely - the work PA system was left on and it's blaring a staticy dialtone at maximum volume
 
IT'S BEGUN
 
I guess I could call the broadcasting office, but I suspect their phone is off the hook
 
1:50 PM
Is there a non-convoluted way of transforming a generator into a iterator without consuming it immediately?
 
isn't an iterator a generator?
you define a next() and __iter__() on a class to make an iterator, no?
 
aye
but the elasticsearch package doesn't approve generators for bulk actions, only iterators
 
How do you know? Are you getting an error message?
 
yep
 
I would like to see the message.
 
1:53 PM
ohwait
shoot me
 
pew pew
 
i was passing the generator function, not the generator itself as a argument
asking a question is a great way to force code review :P
reread*
i'd better go read a bit more about generators...
thanks for your 5 minutes
 
As far as I know, Python doesn't have an actual iterator class. It has an "iterator protocol", which seems quite informal. Basically "we don't care what you inherit from or anything, just provide these two methods"
 
@Kevin There is a Iterator abstract base class, IIRC.
but that's not really a baseclass used by anything in the stdlib.
it just exists so you can use it in isinstance() tests.
 
I've been trying to implement an iterator, actually. I think what I am trying to do is simple, but I keep getting something wrong
like, if you have a simple LinkedList class, would you define the next() on the Node class, or on the LinkedList class?
 
2:00 PM
so isinstance(myGenerator, collections.Iterator) returns True even though Iterator isn't in myGenerator.__class__.__bases__... Interesting.
 
@Kevin: the magic of implementing a __instancecheck__ hook.
That's the whole point of the ABCs.
 
@corvid Assuming LinkedList.iter() returns a Node, then Node should implement next().
 
This is Duck Typing codified.
 
cbg
 
A recent question ends with, "I am currently receiving an error when I attempt to edit the code into my question"
So now one has to solve the meta-problem before they can even read the problem XD
 
2:07 PM
have an OO design question which I am having trouble getting my head around but not sure if this is the right place to ask...
 
It seems to lie within our loose boundary of "on topic", sure.
 
@corvid I would use a generator function instead of implementing next directly
 
you guys think it would be confusing to use an example in python in a beginner's level java class? I am trying to display exceptions, and I feel python makes it look a lot cleaner and more readable
@Veedrac what do you mean by that? Can you post simple example code?
 
def __iter__(self):
    current = self.head
    while current is not None:
        yield current.value
        current = current.next_node
 
@corvid Seems fine as long as you don't use any Python-specific idioms. No list comprehensions, etc. Keep it plain, and Python pretty much resembles pseudocode.
 
2:10 PM
Terms and conditions apply. Actual code may vary.
 
I agree with Veedrac.
 
@Veedrac that is what I was trying to do. Does it have to raise a StopIteration if current is None?
 
It's a generator function, so its generated iterator will do that for you when the function ends.
class ListOfSomeThings:
    def __iter__(self):
        yield 1
        yield 2

for i in ListOfSomeThings():
    print(i)
#>>> 1
#>>> 2
 
generators do that automatically. as I understand, not yielding automatically raises StopIteration
 
lost = ListOfSomeThings()
lost_iter = iter(lost)
next(lost_iter)
#>>> 1
next(lost_iter)
#>>> 2
next(lost_iter)
#>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
#>>>   File "", line 23, in <module>
#>>> StopIteration
 
2:14 PM
Ok. consider a parser object. The constructor takes various params which control the parsing process (e.g. case-insensitive or not). There is also parse method taking an input string/buffer and which does the actual parsing (returning, say the CST). It's top-down type parser, which multiple methods implementing the various parsing rules. My first approach was to set an instance variable to hold the input string/buffer, allowing the rule methods to access the input.
 
I see. But for __iter__, don't you need to define a next()?
 
Veedrac's __iter__ returns a generator object, which automagically has defined next for you.
 
But that doesn't seem clean. For instance, a file object always has an underlying stream (being created with open ). In this case, the parser object only has a stream when parse is called... just smells funny.
 
@isedev I'm not too sure what you mean
 
The alternative is pass the buffer as argument to the rule methods. But that seems heavy.
 
2:17 PM
Shouldn't a parser object take a stream on instantiation?
 
yeah. that's it in a nutshell.
 
What's wrong with that?
 
Well, if a parser can parse multiple streams during its lifetime, you might not want to require a stream as an argument to the constructor
 
I would do some basic preprocessing on the source and convert it into keywords, then run the parsing rules over those basic tokens (e.g. a Bash-like parser could start by building a list of space-separated words and feeding those to the rules)
 
@Kevin In that case you want a ParserRules with a parse method that returns a Parser
 
2:19 PM
well, simply that a parser object may perform a fair amount of initialisation which is independent of the input stream. Repeating that for every stream seems inefficient. But having a parse without a stream is equally 'wrong' somehow.
 
I wrote a top-down parser last week, and I used your second approach: I passed the stream as an argument to every method. But I was in a functional mood that day. I wouldn't have had a problem with making a stream parameter that might change or become None in between calls to parse.
 
@isedev Sounds like you want my suggestion I proposed to @Kevin
Code to illustrate:
class ParserRules:
    # Stream independent stuff
    ...

    def parse(self, stream):
        return Parser(self, stream)

class Parser:
    # Stream dependent stuff
    ...
 
I wonder if you could do some kind of singleton design, so that your fair amount of initialization only happens with the first Parser you create, and all later Parsers just borrow from that.
 
@Kevin That smells of global
 
I'm fine with that.
 
2:25 PM
That's why I stabbed you
 
One might argue that it's local to the Parser module. Other modules shouldn't be able to tell whether you're initializing once ever, or initializing every time
 
teaching students at beginner level classes is hard :| especially in java
 
ok, thanks. Seems that I'm over thinking this (again - always a good excuse to think about it rather than do it).
 
@Kevin Any kind of global effects not at import time are useful at causing heisenbugs
 
Ok, but my proposed method doesn't have any global effects.
 
2:29 PM
Time for Louis Theroux while stuff is errr... "compiling"
 
@JonClements cue xkcd link...
 
I feel that with work commitments my activity has dropped as of late. In order to re-affirm my social standing within the group I present to you this tiny kitten as a gesture of good faith.
 
Aw.... a sacrifice to the yellow puppy... I knew you still loved me really Stewie... let me just grab some sauces
 
Nooooo....
 
2:34 PM
burps - what @Veedrac - "noooo" to what?
 
I'm putting you on my ignore list :(
 
@Ffisegydd so what's for mains? :)
 
Nananananana! Can't hear you!
 
awww.... are they vegetarian puppies? (made of soya or something)?
 
2:36 PM
Nope.
 
Still Poke's been gone, there's been a large absence of rabbit pictures
 
Yeah definitely.
 
Bwahahaha
 
And the other ROs who have been pressganged hired haven't picked up the slack.
 
Everyone in the office has THAT guy who always disturbs you at crucial moments when you're "in the zone". Currently enjoying turning the tables on him today
 
2:41 PM
I thought you worked alone? Are you interrupting yourself?
If so.... uhh... congratulations, I guess?
 
@Ffisegydd I share some office space, rather than being completely extorted
Mind you, that was an excellent missed opportunity for humourous narcissism
 
denormalises a tiny bit and consequently can remove 5 tables
 
normalizes and adds ten tables, to restore cosmic balance
 
NOOOOO
Oh wait, that's your headache. Carry on!
 
/me slips "cosmic" some tequila to make the "balance" more entertaining...
 
2:53 PM
Does anyone know if this chat software is open source? Is it some discourse-SO hybrid, or just SO?
 
After a realllllllllllllllllllly loooooooooooong time crossed 200
 
@RobertGrant I'm pretty sure there's no non-obfuscated source.
 
Ah, okay
That's a shame, because it's awesome and I want to use it :)
 
Going to read about meteor tonight... Good night fellas... rbrb
 
Meta seems to agree with me:
5
Q: is the SO chat open source?

valugiI am curious about the chat only. If not please recommend some alternatives that are comparable. Thanks.

 
user559633
2:59 PM
Take care 4th i
 

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