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2:44 AM
The Mathematica community here isn't big, but it rocks :) If I could, I would +1 the community.
 
acl
3:03 AM
@mike regarding the monte carlo solution here
5
Q: Create expression trees from given sets of numbers and operations and find those that evaluate to a target number in Mathematica 8 or above

Cetin SertGiven a set of numbers and a set of binary operations, what is the fastest way to create random expression trees or exhaustively check every possible combination in Mathematica? What I am trying to solve is given: numbers={25,50,75,100,3,6} (* each can ONLY be used ONCE *) operato...

i was amazed that it worked so well
i wrote something like this some time ago to see if my simplistic understanding of monte carlo was correct, and never expected it to actually solve anything
 
@acl, it can solve the n > 10 cases really fast.
I had it do it on a list of 20 numbers and it spat out a result after about 2 seconds.
 
acl
yes, how it scales is the main advantage
i'll try to clean it up, probably after friday when I get some free time
 
It really depends on how well you get your initial placement though. Sometimes I got a bad initial seed that went nowhere for a 10+ seconds.
 
acl
that may well be because I randomly chose my test function, and, since it worked, I didn't fiddle with it
basically, it randomly changes the operator list and the order of the numbers, then checks if this change got us closer to or further from the desired number; if it gets us closer, accept the change and repeat. if not, accept it with a probability (related to how much it increases the "distance") or reject it with 1-(that probability)
so, you have freedom in how the probability is chosen
it's basically just metropolis algorithm (or, what I remembered the metropolis algorithm to be from reading about it!)
 
Hmm. I see. I implemented MC once for a quantum problem but I wasn't sure if I did the metropolis algorithm right. Looking at your code, it seems to be right though.
 
acl
3:14 AM
er...
I wouldn't use my code as a measure of correctness!
i slapped it together just to see if it would work, I'm not a computational physicist
(to put it mildly)
 
Well, the way you did the MC looks identical to about three other things I can think of off the top of my head.
At least one of them had to be right :) (I'm no computational physicist either -- just a undergraduate!)
Still, your solution works very well when it does work.
 
acl
wait, you implemented QMC?
very cool, I thought your name sounded familiar:
"Detecting many-body entanglements in noninteracting ultracold atomic fermi gases"
ha
small world
 
Eh?
You read it?
 
acl
well, it is on a "to-read" list is a more accurate description
 
Not quite QMC. It was more like MC applied to the Feynman path integral.
 
acl
3:17 AM
for a single particle?
 
It was a simulation for the quantum (an)harmonic oscillator. Also, that's so cool that I'm on a to-read list :D
 
acl
that's funny, my undergraduate project was on the anharmonic oscillator too!
but testing some approximation scheme, a combination of variational and perturbative methods. it worked ok, but worse than existing schemes
 
Not necessarily a bad thing. For every success out there in science I'm willing to bet there are thousands of things that are considered less than successful.
 
acl
tell me about it! it wasn't meant to be a success really, just a way to get my hands dirty with real problems
 
I wish I could go further in Physics, but I suck too much in it :( I do better with Comp Sci things.
 
acl
3:24 AM
well, if publishing a paper as an undergraduate constitutes suckage, I give up!
although comp sci is probably a better bet if you were to ask me (which you clearly didn't, but...)
 
To be fair, I was the one who wrote the optimized code to do the simulations. I figured out how the Physics work, but that was after the fact.
Also, how's Computer Science better to go into? I'm going into grad school soon. Looking for as much advice as I can get.
 
acl
grass looking greener on the other side etc?
:)
wait, let me pester you about the paper for a sec if I may
 
Sure thing.
 
acl
this is in 1d? (I am frantically scanning it as we "speak")
 
Yeah. We tried to do 2D calculations (One of the questions on SOFU was actually related to this let me go find it) but they were insanely slow.
 
acl
3:28 AM
no doubt. ok, this is for free fermions
 
acl
yes i remember it
 
Yep, free fermions. We wanted the generalization for 2D to see how it behaved in higher dimensions, but even for the lattice sizes we used (something like L = 40) it was ridiculously slow.
Thanks for the reminder -- I'll have to go revisit that and try applying the knowledge I've gained since then.
 
acl
ok, actually it's a clearly written paper
 
Thanks. I would love to take credit for that, but my Professor and his collaborator actually wrote it.
On an unrelated note, do you know of any symbols that are commonly used to denote an arbitrary binary operation?
 
acl
3:33 AM
so now it's time for grad school. must be exciting
arbitrary, I don't know. perhaps •?
 
Hm, good enough.
 
acl
but it probably depends on the context
 
Writing documentation for the expression code I wrote today. I'm terribly at documenting my Mathematica code.
Yeah, grad school is kind of wracking my nerves right now. I have no idea what I'm doing.
 
acl
that's the idea, yes
you're trying to work out what to do I guess?
where to go etc?
 
Yeah. Technically I should have had this done something like a year ago, but with how things are going I probably won't be going to grad school until 2013.
 
acl
3:36 AM
nothing really wrong with that. gives you more time to think about it
 
I'm supposed to graduate this upcoming Spring, and I missed most of the deadlines for lots of things already. (applications, GRE, letters of recommendation)
 
acl
a man after my own spirit
or heart, it's getting late and my english is deteriorating...
well, it's a step that's hard to reverse, so it may not be such a bad idea to wait it out a bit longer
 
Mhm. Thankfully I do have a rather beefy resume / general list of things I've done.
 
acl
i'd have thought that a paper should open doors semiautomatically, so...
so is the plan to do physics, comp sci, something else?
 
Incidentally, I actually have a second paper on Full Counting Statistics coming up soon.
 
acl
3:40 AM
on which system?
 
Free Fermions, it was a natural extension of the work I did last summer.
With regards to the plans, I'd love to do Physics. But I'm 99% certain I'm going for comp sci.
 
acl
on FCS and your last paper, have you considered hardcore bosons? these may be mapped to free fermions by a jordan-wigner transformation; one may then obtain the single-particle density matrix of hardcore bosons on a lattice given that of free fermions easily
 
That actually came up in the discussions at one point.
 
acl
these are also implemented experimentally nowadays with cold gases
 
We almost went down that route but my Professor decided to try the Fermionic case first. wrt FCS, we actually got caught up with it because we ran into some unusual behavior.
 
acl
3:44 AM
unless your specific non-translationally invariant geometry breaks something (I can't see that it does), if you do have the bosonic rho_ij, you also have the bosonic after some work
I've done this in mathematica for two papers I have coming up, it's really very simple technically.
could be worth your time to take a look at it
 
Hm. Interesting. I'll get a chance to actually take a look at that next semester.
 
acl
could be interesting.
 
I have to do essentially a senior thesis project next semester.
For my Physics degree, so I could take a look into that.
 
acl
well, you could drop me a mail if you want and I can suggest a couple of papers which could tell you exactly how to go from the free fermion density matrix to the bosonic one for hardcore bosons, quite explicitly. It's very simple (not my work of course)
 
Sure thing. The email you have listed on your web page is fine?
 
acl
3:48 AM
yes
how come you've decided to pursue comp sci? sounds like you like this sort of thing
 
Well, when I went into college I decided to do a dual major in Physics and Computer science, because I absolutely loved both.
 
acl
that's nice about the US system
 
Agreed.
One of my first opportunities to do Physics and Computer Science was actually the summer after my freshman year, and I did better in the Comp Sci side of things than I did the Physics.
It was a recurring theme that I was able to do tremendous amounts of things with Computer Science. Most of the things I approached my Physics professors involved some computer.. thing, for a lack of a better word, I wrote.
I just sort of drifted towards computer science because I did so much better in it than Physics.
 
acl
computational physics could then be a good choice, and some very interesting things seem to be happening there nowadays (not that I am involved much in it). but comp sci is also very interesting. in fact, everything is interesting once you get into it deeply enough
or at least, so I found. maybe I was lucky in what I got involved in
 
Agreed on all those points, especially the last. I'm almost tempted to go into the Geology program over at Stonybrook University.
I helped my sister out with some computations she had to do for her Geology Master's.
And a lot of the papers relating to the work I helped her with were nothing but Physics.
 
acl
3:56 AM
since you have some time, you probably should try finding out as much about it as possible. as i said, what you do for your phd sets you on a path which is difficult to leave
 
See, that's my issue. There's so much that interests me and I don't know what I want to pursue.
 
acl
i can relate
 
sigh I wish I could just do all of it.
 
acl
yes wouldn't that be nice!
but there's too much of it. at some point, you just have to stop thinking and jump
(often, of course, during the free-fall, you change your mind)
but seriously, could you not do a senior project on comp sci, just to get an idea of how it works on that side of things?
 
You mean do something in the Physics?
I'd love to, but unfortunately I have to integrate some computer science into it. My degree is Applied Physics (Ha! And I'm doing condensed matter) w/ concentration in Computer Science.
The senior project requires a computer based aspect.
 
acl
4:05 AM
ok that's what I was suggesting, to do a serious project in comp sci. maybe you'll find that comp sci research is more appealing
 
Ah. Got it.
Yeah, out of the three summer research internships I've done, they were all in Physics.
Also, thanks. I appreciate the advice.
 
acl
there you go then. spend some time on the other side. then you'll be better positioned to decide
well, it's worth what you've paid for it!
I have the exact same problem as you: I want to do everything. so of course you end up doing too many things and not doing anything all that well.
but that could be another approach: go and talk to people at the place you want to apply to, and try to work out what it is they do all day, whether they like it etc
of course nobody will say "I hate it!", but you'll get a better idea of what's involved
 
Mmm. I definitely have to go visit places and see what it's actually like. I haven't had a chance to do that yet.
 
acl
but like I said, at the end one has to do something. agonizing doesn't help much beyond a point.
 
Got it.
It's funny, every time I speak with someone about Physics it just makes me want to go into Physics more and more. Same thing with Computer Science.
 
acl
4:15 AM
so, computational physics?
 
Seems more appealing every day :)
 
acl
lattice qcd? dmrg? large-scale exact diagonalization?
 
Tipping towards DMRG if I do go into such a field.
 
acl
all these sound interesting, although I have not implemented DMRG or any other similar method
but they are very powerful, it seems.
 
Indeed. DMRG seems to be very common nowadays, and far more efficient.
 
acl
4:19 AM
so something along those lines could combine programming and physics
 
I wish I had someone to talk to about these sorts of things years ago.
 
acl
yes well hindsight is always crystal clear
but, you seem well-positioned to do whatever it is you decide to do, so there's no problem
 
Thanks for the vote of confidence. Hopefully this next semester will help me decide what to do.
 
acl
yep. good luck either way!
 
Just out of curiosity -- How did you get involved with computers in your work?
 
acl
4:29 AM
even the simplest problems involve some computation so it's not like one has a choice. and while I'm not a computational physicist, I've been programming recreationally for years.
but in any case, there's not such a clear distinction between computational physicists and others, I think, although that may depend on what area you work in, where you work etc.
 
Hm. I've actually heard that from a number of physicists involved in research in a variety of areas.
I wasn't sure if it was just a quirk of the people I happened to know or if it was true in general.
 
acl
if at some point you can't do an integral, what do you do? give up? no, you do that numerically. then you do a bit more numerically. then you automate things a bit, and one things leads to another. before you know it, you have pages of code
not many people work purely analytically nowadays, especially in hard condensed matter (I admit to knowing nothing about high energy). it may well depend on the area you work in though
I have worked on soft condensed matter, and there it seemed possible to go further without computation. but at some point, you generally just try to solve the problem on a computer (which may well be nontrivial of course)
i mean, look at your paper. it's just free fermions in 1d; what could be simpler? and yet...
 
It uses exact diagonalization to do all the calculation..
 
acl
which is completely impossible to do without a computer
 
Yeah.. The "simple" cases were easy to analytically prove, but we had the general case where the weak link could be anything and it was impossible to do analytically.
 
acl
4:36 AM
yes, generally analytical work is possible in special cases and approximately.
but @rcollyer can tell us all about computational physics!
 
Our resident computational expert, I presume?
 
acl
according to his profile, "I'm a PhD candidate in computational materials physics. I'm interested in parallel computing, numerical algorithms, and generic programming."
although I seem to remember he's finishing it now
 
Nifty. Just realized there was a Computational Science Stack Exchange.
 
5:02 AM
@acl :P
@MikeBantegui Mostly, I've just been watching on Computational Science for the moment. I'm not all that comfortable on that sight, yet. But, they're some very good experts there.
As to being a computational expert, not as much as I'd like.
 
@rcollyer Good to know. I looked around a bit and a lot of it was way over my head. Does look like they would be able to answer any questions I have though.
 
@MikeBantegui The primary reason I like computation over "pure" theory or experiment is the pretty pictures. I like the ability to visualize what you can't measure.
 
Haha. I admit I'm the same way. I made a Navier-Stokes visualizer a few weeks ago and stared at it for hours just because it looked so beautiful.
 
I've never looked at Navier-Stokes, but my focus has narrowed so much over the past several years, I don't know if I'd be able to do it as quickly as I'd like. What language did you use?
 
I wrote it in C#. To be fair, it's been something I've been looking at for the past two years or so. I actually wrote up an in depth series of blog posts on it but I never got around to finishing it.
 
5:14 AM
@acl I'm in the last stages of my research, and have to have the first 3 chapters to my adviser by Feb 1. My main project stalled, and I'm having to go with plan B (which actually happens to be plan A, but who's counting.) With luck, I can get both going, but I'm moving at the end of the week, so who knows.
@MikeBantegui Try to finish it, either as a blog post, or possibly as an article in the American Journal of Physics. They might be interested.
 
acl
@rcollyer ah, well, happens. starting to write up something is always good: it helps to focus your mind, organise thoughts, and may help see some approach. and it certainly helps build momentum, which will make you feel better and see things in context
or, it does all these things in my case anyway
(and I agree with your advice, it sounds interesting)
(advice to Mike, I meant)
 
Quick question, how do you add a link with custom text, like how you just did? Is it the same as on SO?
 
@MikeBantegui Same as on SO: [link text](hyperlink).
 
@rcollyer That would be awesome if they were. It's based off of Jos Stam's Real Time Fluid Dynamics for Games but I tried to derive everything used from basic principles.
In the process of doing writing the code I actually noticed and corrected a number of (what I thought were) errors that were made in the paper.
 
@MikeBantegui That's worth publishing. Incidentally, I recognize some of the plots; in cleaning out my office, I got rid of a lot of papers and this looks familiar.
 
5:23 AM
@rcollyer Thanks for the advice. I was planning on finishing the post series, then give a small talk on it at my University.
 
@MikeBantegui Not necessarily as visible, but it works.
 
@rcollyer Well, I could still do the paper. I figure the blog series + talk would give me a chance to work out the kinks before working on the paper.
@rcollyer Plus it gives me a chance to give back to my University and spread knowledge around in my departments.
 
@MikeBantegui very true. Nothing like standing before a group of "ravening" scientists to encourage you to be thorough. The only thing worse is standing in front of students (that you're supposed to teach) and not being prepared. I made that mistake only once.
 
@rcollyer Well I have the pleasure of getting both crowds :) I'm still an undergraduate so there would be students and professors grilling me.
 
@MikeBantegui True, but it's worse if your the "one in charge." Students won't go after fellow students quite as readily as the nervous, unprepared instructor. Unfortunately, I have to cut this short. It's 11:30 PM here, and bed is calling. Good luck in your studies.
 
5:31 AM
@rcollyer Alright. Thanks for the advice again. Likewise with your work!
 
5:56 AM
What is this black magic? Mr. Wizard always has some really funky code that seems to be just.. magic.
 
 
8 hours later…
2:00 PM
Hm, so the proposal was closed then?
92
Mathematica

Proposed Q&A site for people who use Wolfram Mathematica regularly.

Currently in commitment.

 
acl
2:19 PM
well, if you were wondering whether SO is a business or not, now you have your answer
 
2:52 PM
@Szabolcs That's new, I didn't notice that earlier. It was closed because "it will tend to drain audience from an existing Stack Exchange site." I think the argument can be made that TeX - LaTeX did the exact same thing and they suffered from the same problems as . Any one have the time to make the argument?
 
 
5 hours later…
8:03 PM
@rcollyer I'll pick up the fight with Robert
 
8:30 PM
@yoda Phira has started the fight already.
 
@rcollyer Awesome. I pinged Robert too to voice my concerns. Maybe I'll also post an answer there
 
9:00 PM
Pathetic. If the Mathematica proposal drains audience (all 100 of us) then so do shell hackers, and Windows Phone.
Windows Phone is particularly egregious because it is also about mixing up developers and users, which would drain from both SO and SU in some measure.
Is there any chance of getting it re-opened, or do we have to start again?
@acl why would the division matter to the underlying business? The host company would get the advertising revenue regardless of whether it was on SO or on a separate site.
 
acl
@Verbeia yes you're right. I was just commenting upon someone just closing it like that, completely ignoring the 80 or so people who had committed and without engaging them in discussion. But maybe it has nothing to do with it being a business, and maybe he will engage.
 
@acl The moderator who closed it is a SE employee. Presumably he didn't act alone, but the suddenness of the move after this was already thrashed out in the proposal stage is bizarre.
 
9:25 PM
I see he just posted an answer, and emphasised the lack of support built, not the audience drain. Fair enough, but there are plenty of other sites still in commitment with worse support builds after a year in existence (eg Space Exploration, as well as Windows Phone and many others)
 
@Verbeia The only way to get it reopened is to be a bit noisy. Your comments are particularly apt.
 
acl
10:01 PM
@Verbeia yes, he is an employee. I guess my point could be stated: an employee of the company that manages this set of sites exercised his power in closing the question without engaging the 80 or so people who committed to it. It took a question to get him to explain the reasoning (and he could just have chosen not to).
I'm not claiming any malice on anybody's side or anything like, just stating the facts.
 

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