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12:16 AM
friday evening cbg
any life forms present?
 
Hello
 
Hey Zach
 
12:37 AM
How's it going?
 
Tired :). Long week, relaxing with netflix, wine and programming... you?
 
Relaxing with programming? Can't say I've been there before haha.
I'm honestly pretty stressed, I'm not that skilled in python and I'm currently trying to translate a server I build in C to python.
So I'm learning to do socket programming as one of my first exercises in python.
 
I did something like that years ago, but perl -> python
it was fun in a terrible, "oh god when will this be over" kind of way
:P
 
Hahaha I enjoy socket programming, writing the c version was a lot of fun. Translating it is making me feel dumb.
 
yeah, translating isn't that easy.
 
12:48 AM
it doesn't help that what it is receiving through the socket is a c-struct
The client has to be in C and the server in another language. I'm learning python for another class so I figured why not.
at least that's how it is for the UDP, it's reversed for the TCP client/server
 
thanks dude
 
at one point I got frustrated with the translating, that I just learned exactly what the code was doing, wrote down all the requirements and just re-did it from scratch in Python
it was easier to just think about what problem to solve rather than "how to translate from x to y"
 
Yeah, usually that's the easier path.
 
I'm sorta trying that. I'm not trying to do a pure translation just get it to connect, read in the incoming data, do what the data is requesting, and send back the result.
Can I just call loaded linux commands within my python shell? for instance, recvfrom? Or do python sockets have their own way of doing things?
 
1:08 AM
 
I'm using python 2 :$
 
Then look at the 2 docs? It's a built-in in both.
Also, use Python 3. Embrace the present.
 
change the 3 in the url 2 -> docs.python.org/2/library/socket.html
and yes, listen to the wise one...embrace the 3, love the 3
 
kk
3 doesn't have all the functions I need to use though, or at least I've been told as much.
 
you have been lied to
:P
 
1:11 AM
I would be incredibly surprised.
 
I'm sure I could use 3, and it would be acceptable for this project, but my other class is teaching me 2 and I'm already using 4 languages this semester...
 
1:23 AM
If I'm using UDP, can I ignore the listen function for my server or is there something else I need?
 
user559633
1:35 AM
I'm too lazy to read up (it's very Friday). You're not required to do anything really. UDP is fire and forget, so if you just want to shout into the void, go for it.
 
friiiiday I'm on drink number I forgot
 
user559633
Haha, nice. I just opened beer 4, but I went out twice this week, so the only effect so far is feeling extra full.
 
wife is gone for the weekend and put the kids to bed an hour ago. I picked up a bottle of wine on my home from work to keep me company
 
user559633
Nice, what kind did you go for?
 
user559633
I went with some weihenstephaner, but had considered some whiskey
 
1:43 AM
My go to is Woodbridge Cabernet Sauvignon
 
user559633
I'm generally cool with anything but white
 
yup...same here
 
user559633
related to earlier socket question: i doubt we'll go to ipv6
 
I need to become classy and appreciate wine and whiskey.
 
haha. Recent ipv6 bug solution was to not do ipv6 solution
\o/
if ipv6:
    print("sorry bro...")
 
user559633
1:46 AM
@davidism you're not at all a whiskey man? it's a pricey habit, but you get flavor complexities that you can't really get in beer
 
@davidism we can teach you....join us
 
Is ipv6 sockets bad? I remember it being an extra couple of lines to figure out the connection type.
 
user559633
i did a bit of ipv6 sockets, but saw flow labels and decided i'd go into management before ipv6 took hold
 
user559633
also DNS as a de facto requirement, tisk-f..g-tisk
 
user559633
based on earlier wine comment, i'd say share nothing if it would potentially affect your IRL
 
1:50 AM
hamsters are awesome
 
user559633
toothpaste already out of the tube for someone not using my internet posting to paint an accurate picture of who i am/tie throwaway comments to my IRL
 
I'm trying to watch From Dusk TilL Dawn on Netflix and I don't know what's going on
I didn't think it was one of those shows that required lots of attention
 
user559633
I don't think 2001:0db8:85a3:0000:0000:8a2e:0370:7334 works as a logical successor to 207.1.0.1
 
seems easy enough to remember
just make a song out if it
 
user559633
It's a non-starter and I think misses what people actually cared about -- having more bits to address unique machines that need to act as servers.
 
user559633
1:54 AM
NAT + SNI == dude, you do not need a "forever" solution
 
user559633
Or maybe it's unrealistic that normal people can/could navigate the web without DNS (or tin foil hat, maybe IPv6 is meant to make DNS a requirement as normal people have no idea of how easy it is to exploit)
 
user559633
(alternatively, the snakeoil that is SSL)
 
@idjaw I thought from Dusk Till Dawn was pretty fun. Good for drinking with friends.
 
@davidism I'm in episode 2 right now, so just scratched the surface
 
Wait, we're not talking about the movie?
 
1:58 AM
@davidism The movie was awesome....I'm trying to watch the show
 
user559633
I'm watching "Hell on Wheels" on Netflix right now. It's garbage, but we're (gf and i) almost done.
 
Huh, didn't even know there was a show.
 
@tristan Good to know, because I was wondering if it was worth the effort
@tristan I don't know as much as I should about ipv6
 
user559633
@idjaw lol it's some of the most plain intellectually dishonest, offensive garbage ever made.
 
user559633
@idjaw i worked a a networking company 10 years ago when people would put into production for religious reasons. i've seen shit. thankfully, i was somehow worse at computers then, so the reality of what people were doing wasn't fully impressed on me back then
 
user559633
2:02 AM
one of my favorite setups: people relying on iptables and enabling ipv6
 
@tristan So I take it the show didn't get any better. :P
 
user559633
@MorganThrapp lol it's so much worse now, somehow.
 
That is impressive, considering how bad you made it sound.
 
user559633
also, we're pretty sure the protagonist is now wearing a ridiculous amount of eyeliner
 
Oh, guyliner? That was my nickname for Jacob in Lost.
 
user559633
2:06 AM
"haha" was had at "guyliner"
 
Er, by Jacob I meant Richard.
Look at those eyebrows.
 
user559633
lol it's like they wanted a magician in the show
 
He did magically ruin the show.
 
user559633
 
That is some serious Soap Opera face.
 
2:08 AM
what's that screenshot from?
 
user559633
1) lost
2) it crowd
 
I really need to do a rewatch of the IT Crowd. It's been like 2 months.
 
I started a rewatch of Lost and then sunk into hopelessness knowing how disappointing it would get.
 
yeah, davidism, invest in something else
 
user559633
2:12 AM
I watched season 1 and 2 while on a hilarious amount of antibiotics and other medication, then stopped
 
I like to pretend that it ended after season 5.
 
I did that with how I met your mother
 
I haven't started The Expanse yet, should probably watch that.
 
I LOVED the first 5 season. It's still one of my favorite shows, but the last season was just god awful.
 
@davidism wife and I started it, and then we never went back...we really want to watch it. Have to go back to it.
 
2:13 AM
The book was great, only read the first one so far though.
 
user559633
Some friends would watch it (LOST) while it was on, while those that gave up on it would meet at the bar. For the finale, I think there were 3 people still watching it.
 
@idjaw Yup, I quit half way through season 7 because I just couldn't take it any more.
I have been meaning to watch The Expanse. I keep hearing great things about it.
 
@MorganThrapp my friends and I were super into it in college, we'd read all the Lostpedia entries and come up with theories for everything.
We had this big viewing party for the final episode a few years later and after it was over we were just "What?"
 
I'm watching Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt right now, but maybe I'll do The Expanse next.
@davidism Yeah, that was me exactly. I spent mumble mumble hours on various lost forums trying to figure out what would happen.
And then the finale aired...
I definitely hate it less than some people, but it was not good by any means.
 
@MorganThrapp that show is great
 
2:16 AM
@idjaw I'm almost done with Season 1. I like it.
 
The problem was that every fan theory was cooler and made more sense than the actual thing they came up with.
 
I do wish Ellie Kemper had literally any range at all, but she does play her one character very well.
 
user559633
I gave up on "unbreakable oh erin from the office" after most of an episode
 
@davidism Yup. The biggest disappointment was that J.J.Abrams had said that everything would be explainable by science.
@tristan Give it another episode or two. It's definitely quirky for quirky's sake, but I think it's pretty funny.
Basically, if this skit makes you laugh, you'll like UKS.
NSFW language. (Obviously).
 
Didn't we already delete that before?
 
user559633
2:19 AM
Please remove that, too NSFW for the room. Thanks :)
 
Oh. :P
Sorry.
But yeah, her skit with Derrick Comedy is great. As is all of their stuff.
 
user559633
S'all good. room/6 is weird because it feels more like chatting with buds than "chat for PROFESSIONAL SOFTWARE Q&A PERSISTENT FOREVER"
 
Yeah, exactly. That plus drinking for the last 5 hours has a way of making one forget that they're in a public room.
 
user559633
haha yeah. i'm way too honest/unguarded, so it's not just you.
 
You? No way. ;)
 
user559633
2:24 AM
hey man, if i wanted a filter, i'd spend more time in a language with parens
3
 
Anywho, if anyone is in NY, I would strongly recommend against Adirondack Brewery. I bought a variety pack of 4 of their beers, and only one of them is even remotely drinkable.
 
user559633
noted.
 
They're all stout levels of thick, despite not being stouts. Plus, they have a weird tannic finish.
I'm drinking them because I spent like $25 on it, but I'm not enjoying them. Their scotch ale is "smoked" in that they dumped like half a bottle of liquid smoke in it.
@tristan I. Wow. God damn.
 
\o/
/o\
 
user559633
liquid smoke. ugh.
 
2:27 AM
Yeah. I like a smoked beer, but this is not smoked.
 
hmm...smoked beer..
need to look this up
 
I had an AMAZING smoked porter than I cannot remember the name of now.
 
user559633
just toast the barley or burn something else. no need for chemicals
 
Chocolate and smoke? Yes please!
@tristan Exactly!
 
user559633
well, i imagine they wanted to re-use the wort for multiple beers
 
2:30 AM
Smoked beer seems to be the new "thing". Much like bacon fat washed bourbon was in the early 2010s.
Which I'd be okay with, if any brewery could actually manage to balance the damn thing.
 
user559633
"a black IPA? what will the beer wizards think of next?!??!"
 
woah y'all have been chatty
 
... I like black IPA. :P
 
user559633
@ZachThompson we like each other
 
Wait, we do?
 
2:32 AM
I have not had a black IPA
I need to try this
 
So I got it to where I can actually set up a python socket
now I'm trying to actually read the input in.
 
@idjaw You do! It's all the richness of a porter, with the depth of flavor of an IPA. The bitterness really helps to cut through the weight of a porter.
 
by which I mean I need to decode it because it's binary iirc. it was passed as a struct.
 
@idjaw I highly recommend the Uinta Dubhe. uintabrewing.com/products/dubhe
 
filling in the Python quota for the evening
 
user559633
 
user559633
if you're at all familiar with c or linux, it will feel really familiar
 
user559633
@MorganThrapp i do too
 
I already read that.
hahaha
 
user559633
sorry, that wasn't meant to be loaded with any tone, just suggesting that Python is a thin wrapper in some places
 
Like a wonton.
 
2:36 AM
asyncio and Twisted both have abstractions over sockets to make things easier. Twisted is much more established, asyncio is built-in.
 
user559633
[i skimmed up on your question when you said that we're chatty. use python 3 please -- especially if you're going to be asking for help on lower-level/less abstracted stuff (or failing that, preface all messages with "USING PYTHON 2 FOR 'REASONS'")]
 
@davidism do you like twisted?
 
I haven't used it, but it's what I saw used for Minecraft protocol stuff, which is my only experience with socket stuff.
 
Okay my bad
 
user559633
@ZachThompson no, not your bad, you're fine.
 
2:39 AM
well, davidism, you triggered my reading for the evening. twisted vs asyncio
 
user559633
@idjaw twisted: async + unicode + a lot of helper functions for python 2. asyncio: get used to it because it's going to be the underpinnings of all async for the next 5 years of python
 
I've used twisted for a few things at work. If asyncio can do what twisted can, but it's all packaged nicely in Python 3...I'm all for that
 
asyncio needs way better examples, right now the docs seem to assume you already know exactly how everything should work and why there's five different moving parts.
 
user559633
yeah, on the base level, it assumes that you know that you know that you need to set up a single threaded event loop for it
 
user559633
@idjaw twisted has a lot of supporting functions for it (e.g. unicode handling). twisted v. asyncio isn't really apples to apples without refining criteria
 
user559633
2:48 AM
IIRC twisted also has a lot of modules meant to handle specific protocols where asyncio is more generic
 
yeah, I figured there would be differences where they would not overlap
 
user559633
twisted is more a 'solution' where asyncio is more a 'component'
 
user559633
stuck in my head ^^
 
oh man yeah!....this is about my favourite part of the track
did they play that live?
Because that must sound amazing live
 
user559633
2:53 AM
They didn't play it live, which is why I sought it out after
 
user559633
I mean, I get their formula -- the build up to cacophony is basically what dubstep eventually did, but it's so ~~pretty~~
 
yeah...but...dubstep is just odd sounds and then Optimus Prime takes a <>
can't remember the source of that quote...
 
user559633
lol
 
I'm going to see if I can do something with telnet and ssh using asyncio
if I can, I can maybe propose a nice py3 upgrade for an existing project we have that is using twisted
 
user559633
alright, i'm off. night
 
3:07 AM
cheers tristan
 
3:38 AM
!!! I'm using Python 2 because reasons !!!
Is there a way to store just a byte, but as an integer? Like a short in c?
err, short might be wrong. an int8_t
 
y py 2?
 
it's what I'm learning
 
here OP forgot to close parentheses
 
 
1 hour later…
5:08 AM
stackoverflow.com/questions/39672571/… can't be reproduced, OP did not have proper access to API
 
5:41 AM
Morning
 
morning vaultah
 
Hey guys. I was gonna start learning Python this week. What book would you recommend for total beginners in Python to learn from?
 
stackoverflow.com/questions/39618564/… low-traffic tag, off-topic question
@AshishAhujaツ we have a list at sopython.com/wiki/What_tutorial_should_I_read%3F
 
ah alright. Thanks!
 
np :)
Personally, I would recommend the official tutorial
 
6:03 AM
ցբգ
cbg
 
Hello. Is anybody here?
 
yeah
 
@AndrasDeak not yet
 
6:19 AM
when using the unpack function in struct, I'm turning the incoming data into 8 binary bytes. Is there a type I can use to store these?
print(unpack('bbbbbbbb', data)) prints out

(8, 0, 0, 2, 0, 12, 0, 12) which is what I want
I can store it when I unpack it the print the variable used to store it and it results in the same
 
@ZachThompson are you still using python 2?
because in Python 3 the data is binary bytes already.
 
that's not gonna change
 
what is not gonna change?
 
The data seems to be binary bytes in 2 as well? those are the correct bytes although the last four should technically be two bytes together so it should be 'bbbbhh' in the unpack thing I think but for some reason it's in host order when I put it in data instead of network order
the fact that I'm using python 2. I'm sorry.
 
>>> data = b'\x08\x00\x00\x02\x00\x0C\x00\x0C'
>>> print(unpack('bbbbbbbb', b'\x08\x00\x00\x02\x00\x0C\x00\x0C'))
(8, 0, 0, 2, 0, 12, 0, 12)
>>> tuple(data)
(8, 0, 0, 2, 0, 12, 0, 12)
>>> data[0]
8
python 3
since you're using parentheses with print, suggests that you're a bit confused between python 2 and 3.
 
6:32 AM
hold on let me run all that and see if it works in my python 2 shell
 
no, it doesn't work.
you should switch to python 3 if possible, python 2 is the old legacy, Python 3 is 8 years old by now.
 
yeah it printed out '\x08' after data[0]
but the thing is I don't want to be learning two different versions of python at the same time. one of my classes requires python 2
 
at school?
tell the teacher to stop being a damn luddite
 
He swears it's used by most tech industries.
He's also probably in his 50s or older
 
which school is this
 
6:36 AM
Auburn University
 
I guess I'd need to put up a hall of shame website, where I'd ridicule all schools that behave like this
this is very very very stupid thing to do
this is a f*cking university, they should teach people what they need in future
not what they would've needed yesterday
now they need to learn programming
and something that is used in the future.
that Python 2 happens to be used among that teacher's backwards friends right now doesn't mean that it is the best language to teach to students.
 
I suspect they expect me to learn it on my own later on.
Tell me, do you believe in TDD?
 
to a point.
it is a dream :D
 
> "Without requirements or design, programming is the art of adding bugs to an empty text file." - Louis Srygley
 
that is true^
but most of the time I am just prototyping
 
6:39 AM
yeah, I was jw. I kinda like the spiral lifecycle
 
if you have a spec, then you should have tests
 
is it /bad/ to test with printfs?
 
@ZachThompson jw to me just means Jehova's Witness, so please do not use such slang acronyms if you don't want to be misunderstood :P
@ZachThompson that is not testing
 
or print in python, when I'm not using an IDE that I'm comfortable writing test cases on
 
that's debugging
 
6:40 AM
ahhh noted
I meant just wondering lol
 
ask yourself: am I going to read each and every line of print from my program from now until eternity to make sure I didn't accidentally changed something - nope.
for that you'd want to have a test suite, and also document your code with assertions
 
so... is there a way I can store my bytes separately so I can do things with them? And how can I ensure that they're going into data in network order, I know they're being sent in network order.
like... are htonl, htons, ntohl, and ntohs things in python?
 
no, struct.unpack handles them, search for order in the documentation
 
so struct.unpack is putting them in host order?
 
I mean, htons, etc you can find in the socket module but since you're using struct.unpack, it can also handle host-to-network/network-to-host
@ZachThompson read the documentation
IANPD
 
6:45 AM
I already have it open. Sorry I haven't read it thoroughly I also have 27 other tabs about python socket programming open.
 
if you have ! as the first character in your struct format string, then all your shorts, longs etc are hton*, ntoh* automatically.
 
that's what I was missing. Any particular reason this works for '!bbbbhh' but not '!bbbbbbbb'? Or will I find that in the documentation as I pry deeper?
 
ha?
what do you mean "works", "doesn't work"?
it works for both,
but one byte is one byte ordered as is, be it little endian or big endian...
 
INITIALIAZING...
DATA RECEIVED FROM: ('127.0.0.1', 47175)
DATA UNPACKED!
(8, 5, 0, 2, 0, 12, 0, 12)
That's still little endian. it fixed it for the h format characters where before it was some huge number.
Anyway, I got to get some sleep. I'll get back on this as soon as I wake up. Have a good one.
 
7:06 AM
lol, last night I got drunk and forgot to take my credit card from ATM
I am broke now
 
@ZachThompson if you want the bytes then repack it without !.
@khajvah hmm :?
like, someone emptied your account or you just don't have a card?
 
nah just dont have a card
 
8:26 AM
Morning
Lol at SO job advert here
> debugging our in house distrusted systems.
Not great proof reading there - I hope their in house systems aren't really "distrusted"
 
user6568562
9:13 AM
Morning cbg
 
user6568562
Nothing like Linear Algebra to make you snore no matter how much sleep did you just get
 
9:29 AM
@holdenweb you up in Liverpool waiting to hear confirmation of your re-election? :p
 
Hi, got a question:
How do I add a function to a dictionary?

`x={}``x["something"]=3`seems to work.
On the other hand, `x["somethingelse"]=def(): return 5` doesn't work.
Why is that?
(Sorry for bad formatting...)
 
Well... def(): return 5 isn't valid syntax anyway... think about how you'd normally define that function - would you write that?
 
Either define the function before the assignment or use lambda
 
Would `x["somethingelse"]=def somethingelse(): return 5` work?

I want to be able to call `x["somethingelse"]()` but not `somethingelse()`
 
It won't work.
 
9:40 AM
Cabbage
 
Can I somehow define the function, assign it to x, but make it callable only from x and not from outside? (I hope I could explain myself well enough, did you understand what I mean by this?)
 
@ShaharNacht If the function just evaluates a single expression then you can define it with a lambda. Otherwise, you'll have to use def to define a proper function.
 
The function will be a little complex, so lambda wouldn't do.

I could go
x={}
def y():
    return 3
x["y"]=y
(Which to my understand would work)

But that would mean I'd be able to call both `y()` and `x["y"]()`, and I want to only be able to call the second one
 
@ShaharNacht You can delete y after you put it into the dictionary. Eg,
def f(x):
    return x*x

d = {'thing': f}
del f
print(d['thing'](3))
print(d['thing'](5))
print(f(7))
#output
9
25
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./qtest.py", line 34, in <module>
    print(f(7))
NameError: name 'f' is not defined
 
Huh, thanks! ♥
 
9:47 AM
Of course, with a simple function like that, it's easiest just to use a lambda:
d = {'thing': lambda x: x*x}
 
Can I somehow define the function inside some more local scope, so that the original definition wouldn't be accessible? Deleting it seems like a bit of a hack...
 
@Sami well... you can think of a module as a dict with its variable names as keys...
I'm a bit puzzled what you're really trying to achieve here - what's the reasoning - what's your ultimate end result supposed to be?
 
@ShaharNacht Artificially creating a scope just to hide a function name is an even bigger hack, IMHO. Doing del f doesn't actually delete the function: if it did we wouldn't be able to call it with d['thing'](3). All it does is sever the connection between the function object and the name f. The function object lives on because of the reference we have to it in the dict.
Alternatively, you could "recycle" the name, eg f = None, but to the casual reader that could look like a bug (unless you comment it, whereas using del makes your intentions clear.
 
My end result is a little bit of more organized code, instead of doing something like:
 
Yes... but modules/classes are the key ways to organise code...
 
9:54 AM
screenwidth=100
screenheight=50
def screenrender():
    #do things
I wanna do:
screen.width=100
screen.height=50

and I wanna be able to call
screen.render()
I know I could use a class, but
I will never have more than 1 instance of screen
 
protip: if you find yourself looking for weird language feature, it is time to refactor
 
I just want `screen` to be some sort of folder of variables
How would you guys do that?
 
If you to do it that way, a class seems like it makes sense. It doesn't matter that you've only used it for one instance, if you're using lots of attribute and method-like functions, probably just use the class.
 
@ShaharNacht try not to use globals
 
@ShaharNacht So what? Plenty of GUI stuff creates a class definition that is only instantiated once - it's a very common pattern.
 
9:57 AM
That way you can cover off a lot in your init method.
 
@ShaharNacht as others have mentioned - no reason to not use a class there
 
Welp, if the entire chat chants "use a class" in unison, I cant refuse :P
Thank you all for all the help! ♥
 
As someone who's about to convert from Py2->3 (finally, hurrah \o/ ) - is there a SOPython recommended resource? I see the Dive into Python 3 is recommended as a tutorial, but I wondered if there was a canonical resource aimed at converters rather than beginners?
I guess I'm thinking of something like a 'release notes' style list of the main changes and gotchas when you move.
 
@Withnail you want the hard way or the easy way?
 
:|
narrows eyes suspiciously
 
10:02 AM
dontsaythehardwaydontsaythehardway
 
@Withnail have you read the actual release notes for versions? :p
 
Yeah, I've got that open, I guess I thought there would be a concise summary of the current state of affairs, iyswim?
sigh I think my brain's been atrophied by Buzzfeed.
I'll start with common stumbling blocks and go from there.
 
10:18 AM
@Withnail That looks pretty good, although things have progressed in Python 3 since 3.0. Some of the changes make it a bit easier to write code the works correctly on Python 2.7 (or even 2.6) and Python 3.5+.
Bear in mind that such code may not be equally efficient in both versions: eg while range(1000000) works in both versions, it will obviously chew up a lot of RAM on Python 2. And things like list(map(stuff)) in Python 2 is a bit wasteful because it creates a new list from the list returned by map (Py3 map returns an iterator).
 
If you have some codebase which you want to port, running futurize --stage1 (python-future.org/automatic_conversion.html) or 2to3 (if you target Py3 only) helps with fixing up some basic differences. At least for me, seeing changes in actual code is slightly easier to comprehend (my first message here, hello guys! :) )
 
Hi @ŁukaszRogalski. Welcome! It's great to see that you've finally made it to the best SO chat room. :)
 
@ŁukaszRogalski what PM2 said... welcome :)
 
Oh nice, thanks for that @ŁukaszRogalski - and hiya!
Top entrance.
@PM2Ring Yeah, I suppose what I'm really looking for is an updated common stumbling blocks as of 3.5
 
2to3 is handy, but it can't help with stuff like manipulating binary data in a Python 2 string. The Py3 way, using bytes and bytearray is cleaner, and more efficient, since you don't use chr and ord function calls. But converting tha sort of stuff has to be done by hand: my guess is that an automatic converter would have to be extremely intelligent to be able to do tha sort of stuff correctly.
@Withnail I vaguely remember Antti Haapala posting a nice summary of 2 -> 3 stuff a while ago. IIRC, it was when he was working on SO Documentation. However, I don't know if that material is still in Documentation: I give that place a very wide berth.
 
10:33 AM
Huh, I hadn't thought of SOD. Will have a peer.
 
"peep"? I was trying to work "peer", "pear" etc... into that :p
 
'look with difficulty or concentration at someone or something' :p
It was perfectly apposite. An entirely cromulent word, in fact.
 
Well...bah... no one uses it like that... mind you - might be my fault - I appear to have decaffeinated coffee.... what's the use of such a thing!? :(
 
I'll be honest, I did decide to use it instead of 'peek', although I'm not sure why. I'm similarly undercaffeinated.
Why indeed? Is someone messing with you? :o
 
Only some idiot called Jon that obviously didn't pick up the right jar... really don't like that guy right now...
 
10:50 AM
brief cbg
and no, I'm fully dressed
 
Right, I suppose I should go and pretend I can jog.
cbg and rbrb to Andras o/
 
and decaf can be very useful when you feel like having a cup at midnight
rbrb @Withnail
 
@holdenweb you won! :)
@AndrasDeak isn't that what hot chocolate is for though?
 
@JonClements in most cases yes, but sometimes I'd drink a coffee with the wife (being a mathematician, she runs on the stuff)
mind you, I dislike decaf enough that I usually end up drinking hot chocolate:)
 
Although - if one is feeling particularly extravagant... a little bit of hot chocolate with a little coffee in it is quite nice :)
 
10:57 AM
I want to hug pycharm
it's so good
 

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