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8:01 PM
Hey @Poke Are you by any chance in Frankfurt?
 
I’m not, I’m in Dortmund
 
Will be in Germany for 5 hrs
:)
 
That’s a lot… xD
 
@AnttiHaapala Thanks again! I go try that out! I really thought writing type(name, bases, body) would do exactly the same ^-^
 
Change of flight ...
 
8:04 PM
@davidism Can we open a discussion you and me?
 
nope I've said what I have to say
 
(I meant in a dedicated room*)
 
@JeromeJ While I don’t necessarily completely agree with the actions taken here, I’d suggest you take a break from this room for a day, or at least a few hours, to let it all calm down. Then, you’re welcome to come back and talk with everybody. And for the future, it really helps if you are a bit more cooperative when people try to help you with your problems.
 
@poke Wise words. Thanks, I shall follow. While I'm still upset feeling like everything is solely put on my own back, I do not have my word. All have a wonderful night (UGT).
 
rhubarb!
 
8:11 PM
good evening everybody
 
late cbg!
 
cbg
 
I've always viewed "ensuring the natural flow of conversation in the room" as a damn tricky responsibility of ROs. Message bandwidth of the room is limited - we can really only have ~2 conversations going on at once. So we don't necessarily want someone monopolizing attention for a long time. But then it's awkward if one says "why don't we talk about something else" and then no one talks about anything...
 
^ Perhaps a disc topic in the GM or the RO meeting :)
 
I guess my point is, ROing is hard! Let's all do our best.
 
8:16 PM
i have a very specific question, would in this day and age you still recommend books for learning programming for a beginner ? i understand that if you have a solid base, a book is very benefical, but isnt the problem with a book for a beginner, that he(me) gets stuck on stupid points and the book has no feedback ( like youtube videos or courses) ?
 
No Books No Videos ... The docs are the best
 
I wouldn't recommend a physical book, but there are plenty of long form online resources to get you started.
 
I personally think the exact opposite. Books are good for beginners (maybe?) but bad for me.
 
I learnt everythin from the docs....
 
8:18 PM
My experience with books is that even the more advanced once keep repeating basic things so it’s difficult to ever progress further. On the other hand, you can probably learn well from a book if you don’t have the basic knowledge.
 
thank you david for both
 
@poke yeah, I wasn't addressing advanced books, but that's the way I feel too
 
i think all that multitabling has reduced my attention span to 15 seconds
 
Good news for you: At some number of tabs, that effect goes reverse and you stop looking at your open tabs.
 
I'm beginning to think that being frustrated and stuck is an unavoidable aspect of learning. I'm not sure if this is true, or if I'm just "pulling up the ladder" and saying "you have to suffer to get up to where I am, haha"
 
8:21 PM
Is it clearer to have dangling operators on the left or right?
 
I have 381 tabs open in my browser right now, and I use… 3?
 
i did not mean browser, i meant poker where you have to act in like idk 20 seconds, but when you have like 9 tables at the same time , that time goes down obv,
 
@poke ಠ_ಠ
 
my eye sight is too bad for many browser tabs
 
    return A.foo == B.foo and
        A.bar == B.bar and
        ...

    vs

    return A.foo == B.foo
        and A.bar == B.bar
        and ...
 
8:22 PM
well, both those are invalid, you need parens
 
@QuestionC That’s mostly subjective, but I prefer having the operators at the end to show that there is still more coming after that line. I think that’s also what PEP8 says.
 
I put boolean ops on the left, but arithmetic ops on the right
take that pep8
 
wow
 
Yea, I am trying to find it in PEP 8
 
When I implement equality testing for custom classes, I like to create a tuple method that converts all the attributes of the object into a single tuple. Then I can implement __eq__(self, other) as return isinstance(other, ClassName) and self.tuple() == other.tuple()
 
8:23 PM
I'm missing the English Language chatroom :(
 
it served its very specific purpose
 
It also makes it handy in implementing __hash__ as return hash(self.tuple())
 
That's awesome, but this is actually for C++. I just figure the PEP guys probably have a good idea or two.
 
> Make sure to indent the continued line appropriately. The preferred place to break around a binary operator is after the operator, not before it.
^ PEP 8
(not that I really care about PEP 8)
 
8:26 PM
@davidism Oh, neat. Looks like inspect does the heavy lifting there.
 
and and or aren't (overridable) operators, so my style is justified :-P
 
Rbrb peeps :)
 
rbrb!
 
@poke Ehe, glad to hear I'm not the only one! I had a cleanup recently, I have under 100 tabs opened! (Off for good now! See yall)
 
finally mongodb works a little bit, found at, that it does not work properly on windows 10, that was my problem to begin with
 
8:28 PM
I've never thought about using xor on the type and content of an object in __hash__... I guess that substantially reduces collisions for dicts/sets containing heterogeneous data types.
 
@davidism That’s debatable… and PEP8 actually lists and and or examples directly below that sentence :P
 
selective blindness
 
Actually.. is there an SQL style guide? Those guys would know better than Python how to deal with dangling operators.
 
Not really a big deal for my own applications since most of the time my sets contain only one type.
@QuestionC Anecdote: in my own SQL work, I like to put operators on the right.
 
@Kevin inspect is part of sqlalchemy, but that's just providing a default, most models override the compare_value method
 
8:30 PM
I don't really have a justification for that approach though
 
That was a bit of a stretch...
 
@QuestionC Oh, in SQL? There, I like to align the boolean operators using spaces with the WHERE and stuff
SELECT FROM table
WHERE foo = 'bar'
  AND bar = 'baz'
 
WoW ... Martijn's answer on the official handle of Stackoverflow!
 
I like how all the comments are so wrong.
 
It will become even more famous!
Like Zero's answer became famous
 
8:36 PM
Also, you might be confused here, that's a link to the question, not to Martijn's answer. It's just linking a popular question (which got that way because it was linked on /r/programming I think)
 
It made it's way to the 10k tools, so it was featured on fb I guess
 
There's the string repeat question (not Zero's answer specifically)
It's just posting the hot questions from the sidebar
 
From the sidebar? Thought it was from 10k tools :(
Next time Maritjn's here, I've to ask him about the Fb handle. It has become quite active now-a-days
 
Looks like it's just picking one popular question about once a week.
 
Haha, the comments on this post of theirs facebook.com/officialstackoverflow/photos/…
How about we create a twitter handle for Sopython (If one does not exist)
Hmmm. I must ask his Fizziness about it
 
8:55 PM
What would we put on it? Keeping up with the room and the site is enough for me.
 
Lol. Better to have a dedicated twitter-handle guy! Jk, We can just post updates bout the room if any
 
There are none, or at least anyone who's already interested is here.
If you want to know what happened in the room, you go to the transcript, the meeting transcripts, or you ask somebody. What's the benefit of Twitter to justify more overhead?
 
Yep. True that. It was a sudden thought after I went through the SO handle :)
 
9:19 PM
Well, it's time to call it a day. Scaled 12.5k \o/
Rhubarb all
 
Hello fellow Pythonist'ers: Quick question, does anyone know of a library that can convert a simple text file that contains database schema (similar to to Haskell's Yesod framework) to sql?
 
9:44 PM
sqlalchemy
 
is it similar to this: yesodweb.com/book/persistent
basically a very tiny DSL, that looks (pythonic!) and it generates the sql to create all the tables etc
 
@davidism Think I registered sopython as a group on G+ - just so we had it... no harm in one of us grabbing it on twitter just in case
 
oh found this YAML to SQL : pythonhosted.org/Pyrseas/yamltodb.htm
 
ooooooo.... new song from Lucy Spraggan
 
10:04 PM
I like this song a lot more than most music that gets linked here.
 
Well... I'm biased - but DJ Jon is fairly good :p
she's done a load of good stuff actually
has quite a diverse range of styles
 
DJ Jon?
Googling for that returns Turn Down for What.
Which I don't think is what you're looking for.
 
obviously I'm not an actual DJ - sheesh :)
 
user559633
 
LOL - @QuestionC I like the lyrics on this one
(not the greatest of videos though)
and possibly one of my favs is this one
 

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